Rock & Roll Hall of Fame - 2011 Inductees

[bradsupremes]

Class of 2011:
- Neil Diamond
- Alice Cooper
- Tom Waits
- Darlene Love
- Dr. John

Very happy with this year's class! Tom Waits, Neil Diamond, Alice Cooper & Darlene Love were all very deserving! I'm a little disappointed to see that Laura Nyro was ignored once again. She really needs to be inducted.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/musi...inductees.html

[luke]

omg!!! Darlene finally made it--fantastic--I guess Phil doesnt have as much control anymore!! Personally Neil and Alice getting in before Nyro and Labelle to name a couple- is crazy. But then again they are males etc etc

[stephanie]

I love Darlene Love but you can check on the other thread to see why I dont think she should be in there. Its funny anytime I see on other forums or Yahoo who should be in Rush, Deep Purple and the Moody Blues come up the most. Im happy for Darlene though.

[pshark]

Lets not forget Dr John. He's very deserving.

[Doug-Morgan]

Stephanie and I have been going back and forth about the Hall and its class of 2011 over in the Clubhouse. I maintain that the hall made a BIG mistake in inducting Dr. John and Tom Waits as performers but NOT listing Leon Russell on the ballot, yet slipping him in through the back door. I explain myself here....

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/weblog...011-inductees/

[randy_russi]

Interesting line-up! One woman and she is the only black.

[randy_russi]

I love Darlene too, but I think an artist such as Chubby Checker is much more deserving. He had tremendous impact
on rock & roll in the early 1960s and he is actually a household name. How much of the general public really
knows Darlene Love?

[jobeterob]

Hardly a soul will know her; even on this Forum, some will not know her.

But, I think the Hall gave this list better thought than so many other years; they are trying to cover all the bases and I think they've done OK; they are generally a bunch of losers.

For the masses, all they need is Neil Diamond and they've regained a lot of credibility with them because he's one of the biggest concert draws of all time.

And they are touching rock and R & B and perhaps country rock a bit.

They've done worse before.

[luke]

I think Darlene is a step in the right direction. The Hall cannot just be about recognizing popularity. Darlene is one of the greatest vocalists ever-period!

[bradsupremes]

I love Darlene, but I would have rather seen Laura Nyro get inducted over her. Laura Nyro impact is FAR more influential and she's been ignored for way too long.

[carlo]

I think Darlene is a step in the right direction. The Hall cannot just be about recognizing popularity. Darlene is one of the greatest vocalists ever-period!

Yes, exactly! I also think The Andantes deserve to be inducted. [[Some people might think I'm kidding...but I'm not). Their contribution to the Motown Sound and legacy is HUGE, whether people realize it or not.

[mark speck]

I'm satisfied with all five inductees, and also with the additional inductions of Jac Holzman and Art Rupe, but I do agree that the Leon Russell thing is a little disheartening. He should have been inducted in a regular sense...I am glad that he finally got recognized, though.

Best,

Mark

[marv2]

I'd like to see great bands like the Guess Who inducted. I also wonder if everyone from the Doo Wop era of Rock and Roll are now excluded?

[Doug-Morgan]

Nobody's excluded, but many of the Doo-Wop groups that aren't in the Hall are from so far back they're out of the memory many of the voters and/or the nominating committee. Back when I posted my fix for the Hall, I proposed a "Veteran's Committee" similar to the one at the Baseball Hall Of Fame, to allow unrecognizied but worthy groups and artists to be admited into the Hall without having to go through the voting process......

[randy_russi]

Well, in my opinion, if you are too young to remember then you should educate yourself by listening to the music of that
era. And, if you don't, then you shouldn't be on such a committee.

[tom_moulton]

Now that Darlene is in maybe they will go after the Da Do Ron Ron and Then He Kissed Me Girl, La La Brooks of The Crystals. They both had big hits with The Crystals as Leads

[randy_russi]

That is true! La La Brooks is DYNAMITE!!!! The Crystals were and are a great group. They certainly deserve induction
in the R&B, Vocal Group, and the R&R Halls of Fame. But then again, are the committee members real music buffs
who know the music of the early-mid '60s???

[tom_moulton]

It should be the Mish Mash hall of fame. Instead of Nominating the artists that got us where we are today [[ so others could understand the progression in Music) They hop all over the place and then when you apply Logic as to why they did this? It really makes no sense.When they first started this as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and being a Teenager in the 50's we knew what music changed us and most of those people aren't in the Hall of fame. I guess it makes sense to the younger folks and the record labels to be able to say they are in the Hall Of Fame. Like I said I was there and the Artists that changed us were Clyde McPhatter & The Drifters, Larry Williams,Fats Domino,Little Richard,Billy Haley and The Comets ,Jerry Lee Lewis , Gene Vincent & the Blue Caps,Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley. These were the groups and artists that we spent money playing on the Juke boxes and dancing to. Some we heard on the radio and some was just word of mouth. There are a lot more I could mention. When they started with Vocal Groups I assumed that the Flamingos and The Moonglows would be the first vocal groups to be put in. I lived in upstate New York as a child and when I was in High school we weren't allowed to own Honey Love by Clyde McPhatter & the Drifters. It was considered a Dirty Record and kids didn't have those kinds of records. When we would go to the Sweet shop to eat our lunch the kids would be playing on the juke box Honey Love, Vicious Vicious Vodka and earth Angel. We used to laugh at how long it would take the older folks to like those songs or know them after we had been listening to them for a long time and we had all ready moved on to other songs. Music wouldn't have made such a memorable Journey without these people who shaped me and my generation Like Bill Haley & The Comets used to sing it was.... Crazy Man Crazy

[jobeterob]

Very interesting post. I must be about 10 or 15 years younger than you because while I know those names, I'm not entirely family with the catalogues of those artists; I know Blueberry Hill and Save the Last Dance for Me and Great Balls of Fire but I was too young to really like those artists and know them well.

Instead, I grew up on the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Temptations and Supremes, Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin. And those inductions into the R n R H of F were so obvious.

And then they just got totally lost and it did become the Mish Mash Hall of Fame. They are now inducting people the majority of the public doesn't even know and there would be lots of people that who would go "who is Darlene Love? what songs did she sing? who is Tom Waits?" Some of these people may have been influential in the music world and to their peers and to people who followed them but inductions like that have caused the Hall to be questioned in a lot of circles and by a lot of the public.

They must have held their nose to induct Neil Diamond but they have got to take a few steps toward that market if the Hall wants to embrace "rock" in the large sense. Neil Diamond has hard a far larger impact than almost all of the inductees of the last 10 years, sold far more records and CDS and has a following as larger as many of the inductees of the last 5 years put together.

I know there would be a huge ruckus over it but I think they have to "face the music" with people like Barbra Streisand. She is not one of my favorites but her voice is virtually unparallelled, her success is virtually unparallelled and her influence is virtually unparallelled. The only issue there must be "is she rock enough?" And they need to ask some of the same questions with some of the R & B acts. And they have no way of repairing what they missed many years ago as Mr. Moulton sets out.

[stephanie]

I was told that they RRHOF inducts people who can bring in money. With Neil Diamond being inducted they wont have a problem filling the seats full of Brill Building Philes.

[Penny]

I came to know Darlene Love on David Letterman. Darlene sings every year at Christmas time on David's show. He says it's not Christmas until Darlene Love sings for him.

[tom_moulton]

My biggest problem with calling it the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is show me how Rock & Roll started. That was the biggest change in Music ever and some of the artist I mentioned were the key players in it. where would the Beatles be if it wasn't for Larry Williams and Little Richard and where would the Rolling Stones be without Jimmy Reed and Muddy Waters. These people deserve the credit because they created it and these new bands copied it and somewhat put a more pop feel to it. I don't know if Elvis is in the Hall but he sure owes a big one to Little Junior Parker and the Blue Flames. They had a single out on Sun records called Love My Baby b/w [[backed with) Mystery Train. What Elvis did when he covered the song was Sing Mystery Train over an instrumental of Love My Baby. Most of the kids from my era knew that and don't you think its is someone's responsibility to let the world know how music got to where it is today? How can you really call yourself the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and you missed first grade, third and fourth grade and then went right on to high school. Unless you were around in the 50's you really are missing so much. I think it is very difficult to start somewhere in the middle and expect everyone to understand how our music got to where it is when you leave so much out. Remember when Rumble by Link Wray came out? Everyone I knew wanted to learn to play guitar like that I will bet he's not in there. I am sure he influenced so many guitar players just like Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry did. I will always be grateful to the British because they gave so much credit and Respect to our early R & B artists and without them we wouldn't have our Rock & Roll.

[daddyacey]

Yes ,that's what the masses don't understand and also that is what does not drive the force behind TRRHOF. It's based on sales and popularity rather than artistic merit. I mean realistically ,how can a group or artist be recognized before the group or artist that influenced the inductee ,is recognized??? That's utter B.S. True everybody that is due can't be nominated at the same time ,but damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Key word that I always go back to in regards to Rock &Roll, R&b ,Soul, Dance ,Bop ,Jazz , is Begat. Gospel Begat the Blues ,which Begat Jazz ,R&B , [[Race Music) , Rock and Roll ,Soul ,Funk ,Hip Hop, Rap etc etc.
The RRHOF needs to focus more on Begat!!!!!!!!!!

[marv2]

Daddyacey and Tom M. are totally right on in the things that they are saying. The Rock Hall honors and reveres the late, great Ahmet Ertegun of Atlantic Records and he has ALWAYS said basically the same things as you two guys!

[Kamasu_Jr]

I came to know Darlene Love on David Letterman. Darlene sings every year at Christmas time on David's show. He says it's not Christmas until Darlene Love sings for him.

I think it was a step in the right direction for the Hall to finally induct Darlene Love. Her name had been in nomination forever it seemed. She is one of the most respected singers in rock history and she deserves the honor. Maybe now, others who have been overlooked [[Mary Wells, The Marvelettes, Dionne Wwarwick, Chubby Checker, etc. ) will get the recognition they deserve.

[tom_moulton]

Overlooked? Are you serious? The first Lady of Motown [[ I guess that only means something on here) The Marvelettes certainly helped the cause with all those hits they had. So many Black artists really helped tear down the Black & White wall and really Deserve a lot of Credit for it. I guess Bacharach & David aren't in also? Dionne certainly helped their career with her great interpretations of their songs and becoming a Superstar. Chubby Checker created a dance craze with his great hit all the way to the top and then several years later it went back to the top of the charts. I guess a lot of records do that so that is no big thing. As for Neil Diamond he should have been in there years ago [[ just for his Bang records alone!) not to mention his Super Stardom when he went on to UNI. I am looking for some LOGIC here? Connect the dots Please.

[jobeterob]

I think if there is any logic to what has happened it is that things for the Hall worked reasonably well with respect to the 60's artists; but the originators of rock and roll were too old and not well enough known by the Hall voters to be recognized, and then a strong white rock band bias has eliminated many R & B and pop/rock acts.

I don't think alot of this will ever be rectified; many of the overlooked 50's and 60's, perhaps even 70's acts, are too far back in history to be remembered and appreciated by those that choose the Inductees.

[tom_moulton]

Thank god for england!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jobeterob]

As you've said very well, "mish mash" is the word.

The Hall is greatly criticized and it doesn't have a lot of credibility. We've seen these lists made up on here of all the people they've missed. It is pretty hard to reconcile even Darlene Love versus Lesley Gore as one example. Lesley Gore had 14 Top 20 hits and the FIRST women's lib song EVER ~ You Don't Own Me. And she had It's My Party. She was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Song. What about the Marvelettes? The FIRST #1 Motown Record, Please Mr. Postman which went to #1 twice more subsequently. I don't think those two have ever even been suggested.

There is no logic to it; it wouldn't suprise me if the votes get "bought".

[midnightman]

If they're excusing their age as a reason to not induct folks like Roy Brown or Mary Wells or Labelle, then they need to go back to Music Education 101 and stop being lazy folks. Plus they could increase the number of inductees back to where they had it when they first started doing it.

[jobeterob]

I've often seen Jan Wenner, the editor [[former editor) of Rolling Stone, criticized for the shortcomings of the Hall.

[midnightman]

^^ And rightfully so. His magazine is biased as well.

[daddyacey]

Yes ,that's what the masses don't understand and also that is what does not drive the force behind TRRHOF. It's based on sales and popularity rather than artistic merit. I mean realistically ,how can a group or artist be recognized before the group or artist that influenced the inductee ,is recognized??? That's utter B.S. True everybody that is due can't be nominated at the same time ,but damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Key word that I always go back to in regards to Rock &Roll, R&b ,Soul, Dance ,Bop ,Jazz , is Begat. Gospel Begat the Blues ,which Begat Jazz ,R&B , [[Race Music) , Rock and Roll ,Soul ,Funk ,Hip Hop, Rap etc etc.
The RRHOF needs to focus more on Begat!!!!!!!!!!

Just to illustrate my point from what I have expierienced first hand , my cousin ,Keith "Cowboy" Wiggins is an Inductee of TRRHOF ,as a member of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5. Something I am proud of for him and the group. If TRRHOF chooses to recognize them and their music and recognize/ consider them as pioneers of an offshoot genre of "Rock and Roll" ,then thats great. It represents at least some form of "mainstream" props to the "original Hip Hop concept ,which was derived from the music that was played in our family homes and at our family cookouts ,weddings and Christenings. As little kids in say 1965 and on we would be dancing and singing the "Old Folks" music ,of our parents and grandparents. Ray Charles ,The Drifters ,The Clovers ,Ike and Tina ,Dinah Washinton ,Sarah Vaughn ,Billie Holiday [[my uncle had an signed 8 x10 of Billie from the 40's in a frame that sat on his Hi-Fi with other family pictures. For years as little kids we thought the lady in picture was an aunt or something until I was about 8 and I asked him, who was that lady ,LOL) ,Mighty Sparrow ,Belafonte ,
Puente , a lot of older albums and those 78's. Then we also played and danced to our "Young Music" , all the Motown groups , Mary Wells , Smokey ,Temps ,others like Gene Chandler ,The Impressions ,Manhattans ,Sam Cooke. We would wear out records like ,The Twist ,Peppermint Twist ,So Fine by The Fiestas ,The Jerk , Peaches and Herb -For Your Love ,Charlie and Inez Fox -Mockingbird ,Shirley Ellis--Name Game ,so many others. The grownups would call our music "Rock and Roll". By definition ,a lot of it wasn't.
So given the fact that this group of young men ,who by culture were exposed to music of various time periods ,before they were born and multiple styles ,and that exposure obviously played a part in the eventual creation of "Rap/ Hip Hop" , were inducted into TRRHOF ....before lot of the people that played a part in the music that these kids heard from babies and
that had a big impact on what they created , which damn sure aint Rock and Roll. Hip Hop is another complex and worthy world . Indiginous to urban America , another story ,but from the same peoples. In that regard Flash and The Furious 5 certainly are due recognition. But that ain't Rock & Roll.
Now if they change the name of TRRHOF to The American Music Hall Of Fame ,that would be another story ,because the perameters of the choices would be broadend to include "variations".
Otherwise they need to lean a little more to the historic side of things instead of changing or trying to commercialize the perception of what is Rock & Roll by trying to pull in more younger age demographics ,for ratings etc.
Besides ,most of those in charge of the workings of TRRHOF are what? 20 something ???????????

[timmyfunk]

Ahhhh....no Kiss on the list once again.

There is justice and peace.

[randy_russi]

Darlene Love will be on David Letterman on Wed., Dec. 23rd.