A message for Ralph and Farewell SDF

[soulster]

I admit that error yes but if you believe hes innocent your are living on another planet dear.

If you are such a good christian who strives to follow the teachings of Jesus, you would let this stuff about Marv GO! Let it GO!

You don't bait Marv, and Marv: don't take the bait! It's that simple!

Damn!

Dear Lowell.

The only person I unconditionally back and fully supportt is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Well then it looks like it's time for you to leave too!

[Roberta75]

If you are such a good christian who strives to follow the teachings of Jesus, you would let this stuff about Marv GO! Let it GO!

You don't bait Marv, and Marv: don't take the bait! It's that simple!

Damn!

Well then it looks like it's time for you to leave too!

Didnt you read my posting i said I was done with him. If only you were a moderator you could ban me.

[soulster]

You care enough to keep bringing up Ross and the Supremes. Stop bringring both up my dear. Now Im done with Marv ive said my peice to Lowell and Ralph and thats the last ive got to say about him. I get the feeling youd love to comoderate this here forum am I right? If I am you need to stoip the hinting and come out and ask to be a moderrator.

I bring it up because that's what these damn problems are all about. That, and Marv baiting/bashing.

If I wanted to be a moderator, which I don't, the first thing i'd ask you to do is learn how to use a spell checker. I don't have time to babysit a bunch of grown men who would rather have slugfests.

[Roberta75]

I bring it up because that's what these damn problems are all about. That, and Marv baiting/bashing.

If I wanted to be a moderator, which I don't, the first thing i'd ask you to do is learn how to use a spell checker. I don't have time to babysit a bunch of grown men who would rather have slugfests.

For the third time im done with him. Fyi my post was adressed to Loewell. Not you. Second my computer doesnt have spell check and third kindly stop communicating with me.

[soulster]

Perhaps I have an ide to help. How about the Dr fans create their own board? I am one and have a forum. It is not very active but could change. I think it would benefit all.

Let's see if anyone of them take you up on that, Koach. But, I think they like Marv too much to give this place up.

[soulster]

If only you were a moderator you could ban me.

Lucky you!

Didnt you read my posting i said I was done with him.

We're holding you to it. We're all watching.

[Roberta75]

Lucky you!

LOL. Thanks

[imnokid]

There are no ulterior motives. I'm sure the individual you tacitly refer to is Marv. Well, guess what...there are others that like to try and push buttons here. It seems to me, Marv just gets singled out for everything by some that simply don't like the guy. I wish those that complain the loudest would bring to the table what Marv does on an almost daily basis. And because this is a FORUM, Marv is entitled to an opinion just as everyone is here. So...I wish some of you would quit complaining and ignore what you may not agree with. I really don't have time for all of this right now. I'm up to my neck in moving issues. If those of you that feel there is some problem I'm not addressing, I'm sorry. Maybe its best you go elsewhere and look for a forum that is free of charge that suits your needs better.

Well said Ralph. I don't say a lot around here, but I do know when I look about a bit, Marv is far from the only one who pushes his opinions. I say that this is a forum, open to all, and that no thread should ever be deleted and no one banned. If you read something you don't like, you have the choice of engaging or ignoring. OR, leave the Forum.

When I joined the forum years ago, there were many industry people who engaged here, which made it interesting to me. These days, it's the fans vs. the fans. Not so much fun.

[Methuselah2]

I've kept up with this thread and have been interested in the opinions, ideas, and perspectives expressed. I can't say I agree with everything that's been said but I acknowledge each person's right to say it. That, in itself, is what's at the center of--and the basis for--a chatboard.

The way a person chooses to express himself or herself is always up for grabs. Negative views and criticism have their place here, as well, and are worthwhile to me when the opinion is explained and truly examined by the poster. The manner in which such opinions are, at times, posted can unfortunately be jarring and off-putting, to say the least. But as such, it has no impact on me as far as how I might feel about the artists and their work being discussed, perhaps even targeted. Such manner of posting reflects only on one person--the poster. Surely there's not a poster on SDF who isn't aware of that.

The other issue running through this thread seems to be about the amount of posting and attention given to a certain handful of artists. Yes, it's noticeable but I think it's nothing more than "supply and demand." People are obviously starting threads about who and what interests them, and I think it's as simple as that. If you start a thread about someone or something that garners slight viewing or response, the demand for it might not have been there--but it was for those who viewed and responded. I don't think anyone can ask for, or expect, anything more. Since I've been on SDF, I've never come across a thread that's prevented me in any way from posting any thread of my own. And I certainly wouldn't like to see that change.

[soulster]

I've asked in the past: why aren't other people starting threads about artists that were not part of that female group? Because they know it would sink like an anvil, and the Supremes/Ross threads would stay at the top. They may ask, why waste the energy when no one is going to read or participate in their thread? If I start a thread that is geared toward the audio aspect of music, someone inevitably posts some snide remark about how no one cares. But, they sure care about whether you can see Diana Ross's bra strap!

Why are the industry people not posting anymore? They do not want to be around all the fighting. They don't want their names or their company associated with idle gossip about a 40-year-old spat between Ross and Ballard or something.

Every time one of these complaint/i'm leaving threads pop up, the Ross fanatics lay low for a week or two, and then, when it seems like the coast is clear, they come right back with the same old mess. Mark my words! It will happen again.

It used to be you could, say, talk about how the song "My Girl" by The Temptations was recorded, and Harry Weinger would come back with a detailed rundown of the notes! That's what SDF was about. Now if you get a thread about what happened to Hip-O, there are no industry people around.

No wonder the industry people would rather be on Twitter and Facebook.

[Methuselah2]

And so, what happens now? Well, perhaps this thread has served a real purpose. And for anyone who's been following it closely, maybe it would seem evident as to what all of us could take into consideration at this point to help the Forum thrive.

[[Except for me. I'm too focused on gowns right now.)

[144man]

Redhot,
Thank you for your post. A voice of reason. And true, if one doesn't like what goes on here, then leave. Plain and simple.

And Marv is right, Bayou. Totally out of line to post his full name. I'm going to edit that out.

Surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.

[Ngroove]

Hey everyone, Ngroove here....

I know, I'm not exactly as interactive much earlier, but just saying, I'm staying around. Myself, a total and utterly devotional "Motown Nut" for over fifteen-and-a-half years now and forever.

While I am aware of such arguements, or at the very lightest, disagreements, about "certain singers", I just wait til' "coast is clear". Don't worry, I still love those "certain singers" myself, still have my stacks and stacks of LPs and CDs of them, pretty much unconditionally, no matter what I hear / read about them.

But, I would love / highly appreciate more / other discussions, than just those "certain singers", as Motown, throughout its fifty-five year plus history, has been blessed with DOZENS and DOZENS of magnificent singers. Oh wait, I guess there is other threads. I'll take a look. I'll be discussing again somewhere on these good Soulful Detroit boards soon.

[soulster]

Surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.

Says the poster called "144man".

The problem is that you're not going to get people to use their real names. There's no way that can even be enforced.

[soulster]

While I am aware of such arguements, or at the very lightest, disagreements, about "certain singers", I just wait til' "coast is clear". Don't worry, I still love those "certain singers" myself, still have my stacks and stacks of LPs and CDs of them, pretty much unconditionally, no matter what I hear / read about them.

You're OK, Ngroove. I never see you in the school lunchroom when the food fights start.

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a certain group of singers. It's #1: when the crazies start their stupid cat-fights, and #2 dominate the discussion of the entire forum with endless, and useless gossip of a certain female group. It's the fault of the rest of the membership who doesn't make any effort to speak up against it, or who won't start or participate in threads about other artists and topics.

[woodward]

QUOTE: When I joined the forum years ago, there were many industry people who engaged here, which made it interesting to me. These days, it's the fans vs. the fans. Not so much fun.QUOTE.

We should all be grateful for Keith Hughes as he is still with us. He takes a lot of interest in the forum and I sometimes don't think members appreciate him as much as they should. He is a link to the past and our promise for the future. Thanks, Keith, for all you do for the Motown Forum. You are "simply the best."

[soulster]

We should all be grateful for Keith Hughes as he is still with us. He takes a lot of interest in the forum and I sometimes don't think members appreciate him as much as they should. He is a link to the past and our promise for the future. Thanks, Keith, for all you do for the Motown Forum. You are "simply the best."

And more of us would probably know who Keith Hughes is if there wasn't so much noise from the Diana Ross Tea Party.

[144man]

Says the poster called "144man".

The problem is that you're not going to get people to use their real names. There's no way that can even be enforced.

"144man" is my real name. 144 = a gross. My surname is "Grossman".

[arr&bee]

surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.

haaaaaaaaaa...144 you're a hoot,if i had to use my real name i'd have to leave the planet.

[soulster]

"144man" is my real name. 144 = a gross. My surname is "Grossman".

No one would have figured that out.

[144man]

No one would have figured that out.

At least one member has. I think it might have been Tamla617 or Adrian.

[144man]

The only reason I have a user name is because of convention. I would have been quite happy to use my real name if everybody else did.

[Methuselah2]

144man - You came up with a great moniker. Perfect, I'd say!

[144man]

Thanks, Methuselah2, though I don't think I'd have chosen it if I'd realised it would put me first in the members' list.

I'm not sure whether your name came from your great age or from your preferred size of wine-bottles.

[Bluebrock]

The only reason I have a user name is because of convention. I would have been quite happy to use my real name if everybody else did.

Me too 144man!!

[snakepit]

I would but Rumpelstiltskin wouldn't be believed

[juicefree20]

As a long-time former whom hasn't visited here in quite awhile, I'm saddened to see that despite my long absence, that Ralph is still having to deal with the same issues, which involve the same people & that makes no sense to me at all.

I remember the days when certain people were considered to be a "problem" here & if only they would leave, life would be so much better here.

Well, guess what...just about all of those "problem" people are gone & yet, here Ralph is again, having to deal with the same nonsense & sad to say, it always tends to involve the same individuals, whom as the current "leaders" of the forum, could do more to allieviate some of the problems, rather than choosing to fight the same battles that they've been fighting before Soulful Detroit came into existence.

As one who has had his own disagreements, I would watch these firestorms constantly erupt & as a basically disinterested observer, I can honestly say that there are FEW innocents, but several people here who seem to enjoy helping to escalate matters & have been equally guilty of doing their best to keep the fires burning.

I've can barely count the number of times that I've been here over the last 2 or 3 years & the last time that I was here, was to post pictures of Blue Lovett's Memorial, where a person decided to make remarks, which I ignored. I ignored them because I know myself & nowadays, I tend not to waste my energy arguing with someone over the internet, when face-to-face conversation tends to bring about a completely different response from folks who behave quite differently when behind a monitor.

But once I saw Ralph mention something about "dissent", I automatically knew who was going to be involved, as well as what sparked the dissent.

I get it...Marv doesn't like Diana Ross. I also get it that the guys who don't him tend not to like Mary Wilson. I also get it that none of you like one another all that much. But I also get the fact & let's face it, the fact that this has continued to occur since the Motown Forum was created here, there are two sides who are bound & determined to keep the fights going. This is true because it happens every time & I believe that most relish the battle because of the intense dislike that you all have for one another.

Does anyone really believe that Marv is the ONLY problem in all of this? Now I don't really know Marv, except for The Ponderosa Stomp, we've never seen nor spoken with one another outside of SDF. Hell, we're not even Facebook Friends.

I've seen him say some things that he shouldn't have said & I've told him so. But I've also see quite a few write things which were designed to elicit a negative response from him. To that end, quite a few complaining about him are equally guilty of practicing the very same behavior which they complain about.

Seriously, check the archives & see how long this has been going on & why no one involved finds it to be ridiculous & simply just let it go, I'll never know.

But truthfully, it's not a one-way street, nor has it ever been & frankly, I believe that more than a few involved really get off on all of this, because most involved are quick to feed into it until it explodes into yet another argument & thread that has to be deleted.

Frankly, had I been Ralph, I'd have banned a few years ago, because since no one really wants to co-exist peacefully, without eventually taking digs at one another, there will never be any peace.

Sorry to be the one to say it [[not really) but Marv is not the only guilty party here. And if anyone really believes that if Marv leaves that the arguments will magically disappear, the evidence suggests that that's not true.

Once upon a time, the argument was that if Ralph would only ban a guy named Isaiah, that peace would reign, which proved to be untrue, because other arguments popped up, friends fell out, new "problem" people joined the forum & arguments continued to occur.

The problem lies less with anything that Ralph does & doesn't do, but rather more with the fact that a group of adults who for some reason unbeknownst to be or anything resembling logic, have decided to turn their music dislikes into some sort of holy crusade against one another.

For about 7 years now.

That Ralph really has to address a situation that grown folks choose not to, by either feeding the flame, or taking their sneaky pot shots of their own, is as ridiculous, as it is disingenuous.

And on the few occasions when I have come back or thought of posting pictures of a show here, it's the same old nonsense, involving the same old people. I just wish that all of you could just take a step back, forget that you're involved, then come back & read half of this stuff & imagine how it all looks to others.

I've been on Facebook trying to get some to come back & always speak highly of Soulful Detroit as a place with great knowledge about music . Then an artist whom I speak with stumbles across some stuff like this & wonder what in the world I'm talking about.

Most of us who've had disagreements here have had our disagreements & in most instances, have moved on, patched things up & made amends. But it's clear that that is not what is wanted here.

And so, it continues & sadly, some of those screaming the loudest, have the muddies hands & whatever's left in the archives verifies that as the truth.

Ralph deserves so much better than people constantly attempting to manipulate him to do their dirty work, when they could simply stop feeding into the nonsense simply because they can't help themselves from going back & forth with a guy who they don't like.

As I said, there are few innocents involved here. But truthfully, no one fights like this amongst one another unless they want to.

For seven YEARS??

That speaks for itself!

[juicefree20]

Now having said that, I'll also add this. I wish that EVERYONE would stop taking potshots at singers whom they don't like. That adds nothing of worth to any discussion & is unnecessary.

Get in where you fit in.

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

I agree with you 1000%. It was the same thing 5 years ago & here we are again & I've only been here once in the last 2 years.

Feels as though I never left & have picked up where the last argument left off.

[juicefree20]

BINGO!!! You definitely get it.

[juicefree20]

Agreed & I have said this on numerous occasions & even posted links which proved it.

[marv2]

BINGO!!! You definitely get it.

Hello Juice! How have you been man?

[juicefree20]

This is EXACTLY what I meant when I responded to your last message.

Now Ralph doesn't respond as you'd like for him to, then you make this great leap & accusation, accusing him of also bring a "Ross-hater". which is a pretty nasty & very unfair tactic for you to attempt to employ.

And sadly, as is the case just about everywhere these days, is par for the course.

Personally, I believe that you owe Ralph an apology.

[REDHOT]

I agree with you Juicefree and Soulster,it's the same people,with the drama and mess,they post these negative things,because they know,they are gonna get a reaction,when these people,get the negative reaction,they are looking for,i bet,they are gettin' a big laugh,out of it.you'll right Juice,they get some kind of sick kick out of it.playing nice,but really bein' nasty,it's all a sick game,to these people,who keep up mess and drama,[[not all)they go from post to post,just to start mess and drama,Marv is not a big Diana Ross fan,so what,he can like who ever he wants,i see the Diana fans gang up on him tho,and Marv will defend himself,i'v said it many times,i love all The Supremes Mary Florence Diana Cindy Jean Lynda Scherrie and Susaye,everyone has an opinion, but some people here are here,just to be nasty and vindictive,pretending,grown people smh,Ralph you Rock

[soulster]

Excellent post, Juice [[BTW, how have you been?)!

To be blunt, the only way this situation will end is for Ralph to ban the next person[[s) who start something. It's a shame he has to do this to grown people, but if people are going to act like children, they should be dealt with like children.

[Bokiluis]

Unfortunately, I always approach The Forum, cautiously. Thanks to a couple of personal emails from Ralph, I continue but try and limit my participation. There can be a current of negativity that is very disheartening. But at the end of the day, The Forum remains an excellent source of breaking news. If you come with a commitment to civility...you can only hope you receive it in return.
If there are topics or personalities that don't appeal to you, it is your choice to ignore or delete. If on the other hand, one cannot control the temptation to say something negative.....try and consider what a cost it is to the harmony of The Forum.

[soulster]

Unfortunately, I always approach The Forum, cautiously. Thanks to a couple of personal emails from Ralph, I continue but try and limit my participation. There can be a current of negativity that is very disheartening. But at the end of the day, The Forum remains an excellent source of breaking news. If you come with a commitment to civility...you can only hope you receive it in return.
If there are topics or personalities that don't appeal to you, it is your choice to ignore or delete. If on the other hand, one cannot control the temptation to say something negative.....try and consider what a cost it is to the harmony of The Forum.

I agree. But, let's see how long this peace lasts. I give it two weeks tops.

[stingbeelee]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?

[midnightman]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?

I think so... it makes Juice look like he's talking to himself.

[carole cucumber]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?

I think so... it makes Juice look like he's talking to himself.

I read the the messages right after Juicefree posted them. There were no posts deleted in between.
To me, it appears that juicefree was responding after his initial post on the subject [[06:05 P.M., 10-01-2015, # 127) to various posts that preceded his without utilizing the Reply With Quote feature.

[jillfoster]

Everything we see here is by the time and generosity of Ralph and if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! Simple as that. Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.

[Bluebrock]

Everything we see here is by the time and generosity of Ralph and if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! Simple as that. Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.

She's also my favourite!! We do discuss her from time to time but feel free to start up some more threads and i will be sure to contribute.

[midnightman]

I agree, Jill! More attention needs to be giving to the Empress of Soul.

[soulster]

Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.

You're wrong. I've seen this happen repeatedly on other forums. Industry people leave because they do not care to be in a crazy environment. I have had active name engineers personally tell me this.

[Methuselah2]

From having kept up with this thread, it seems to me that it's winding down.

So where are we now?

Don't see a thread you're interested in?
Well, then, why not start one?

See threads that you would rather not?
Well, then, why not avoid them?

Concerned your thread might not receive much viewing or response?
Well, that's part of the nature of threads . . . and the membership. Some are not motivated to respond or feel the need to. Some might want to avoid arguments and criticism that sometimes ensues. Others might have other reasons of which there could be many. It's just the way it is.

And how 'bout those arguments and criticism?
Well, can't they still be made in a way that doesn't inflame, attack, and seem pointed to hurt? There's still room for opinion and disagreement. Without all that has often been a part of it.

This thread began about people leaving. I don't take members choosing to leave the Forum lightly. And I hope they will soon choose to return. From time to time, I question things about the Forum just as anyone else might. And at times, it's more than I want. But for all the other many, many times, it's what I want--interesting, informative, insightful, entertaining, and, yes, fun. It's always at its best when members are at theirs.

[soulster]

. . . and the membership. Some are not motivated to respond or feel the need to. Some might want to avoid arguments and criticism that sometimes ensues.

Then, what is the friggin' point of even being a member of a forum if you aren't going to participate? Think long and hard on that one.

And how 'bout those arguments and criticism?
Well, can't they still be made in a way that doesn't inflame, attack, and seem pointed to hurt?

If one is diplomatic and non-confrontational in their posts, one can conduct an intelligent, and, yes, constructively critical post without being abrasive. The problem with this forum, and a lot of others i've been a member on over the last two decades, is that many seem to be incapable of that.

[Methuselah2]

Soulster - Each member decides for himself or herself the degree to which they choose to participate. That's the point. If someone has decided that he or she has nothing to add to the conversation--for whatever reasons--I accept that.

In regard to your second point, I don't think anything can be done to correct what's past--but to learn from it as one goes forward. Who's incapable of that?

[soulster]

Soulster - Each member decides for himself or herself the degree to which they choose to participate. That's the point. If someone has decided that he or she has nothing to add to the conversation--for whatever reasons--I accept that.

In regard to your second point, I don't think anything can be done to correct what's past--but to learn from it as one goes forward. Who's incapable of that?

Another reason industry pros are loathe to post on message boards is because if they say or do the wrong thing, like misrepresent information, or become personal [[after all, they are human), they could be legally liable, and face consequences from their employer as a result. Which brings me to another reason: some companies forbid their employees and contractors to represent themselves in non-approved sites.

Here's just another reason industry people will not participate on message boards like this:
http://home.cableone.net/news/read/c..._dancing_ba-ap

What I stated about why pros do not participate stands and is true. How many industry pros have you personally communicated with?

To your other reply: To my mind, there is no logical reason to join a forum if one has no intention of participating. It's a waste of that person't time, and makes no logical sense. I know that many people, especially those new to computers or smartphones, tend to join anything and everything, download all kinds of apps they don't need, but, then loose interest.

Maybe it has to do with personality. Perhaps you and I, and other frequent participants, are made of sterner stuff, while the rest are vary passive. I say: if you want to keep the Diana Ross/Mary Wilson [[yeah, I wrote their names) fans from dominating the place, post more about other things, and speak up. And, already, this morning, i'm seeing an uptick in those threads again. The other topics are giving it a go, but how long before my earlier prediction comes true?

[Methuselah2]

Soulster - I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'industry pro'. Any discussion I may have had with a member about how they feel about SDF would have been personal and private and, as such, would remain so. I understand that you feel comfortable speaking for other people; I, however, do not.

As far as what makes 'logical sense' to you regarding what others do with their technical equipment and why they join chat groups, I couldn't begin to answer. But as far as your own concept of 'logical sense' goes, I certainly wasn't able to follow it as your above posting moved from taking issue with members for not participating to issues with members who have participated by starting some new threads.

There seems to me to be plenty of room for participation or for just viewing, as the case may be. And there also seems to be plenty of room for anyone's thread without infringing on anyone else's space or time.

[soulster]

Soulster - I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'industry pro'.

I already explained that in an earlier post. An industry pro is someone who worked in the record/music/audio industry. They can be active or retired, and the type of pro I am specifically referring to are the active ones such as Andy Skurow and Harry Weinger. My communications have been with one of those two, including others who have appeared on this forum, and others who haven't, and are currently working in the industry, one who has worked on major Motown albums in the 70s. But, my point is that you don't see them much or at all on run of the mill music, audio, and fan-type forums anymore because of hostile members, silly crap like that which occurs here with the Ross/Wilson wars, and the Marv bashing. You can find a lot of these people on Facebook, though. That way, they can network with their peers, and represent their companies in a legitimate, and corporate-sanctioned way. And, if they do pop up on message boards, it is usually only to correct gross mis-information. Also, there's no stopping people from registering under aliases, which means, if they're good, no one would suspect them.

The retired guys can, as you insist, do whatever they want.

Any discussion I may have had with a member about how they feel about SDF would have been personal and private and, as such, would remain so. I understand that you feel comfortable speaking for other people; I, however, do not.

I have not disclosed who I have communicated with here, and would not unless I got their permission.

As far as what makes 'logical sense' to you regarding what others do with their technical equipment and why they join chat groups, I couldn't begin to answer. But as far as your own concept of 'logical sense' goes, I certainly wasn't able to follow it as your above posting moved from taking issue with members for not participating to issues with members who have participated by starting some new threads.

That's not my fault you aren't following what I am saying.

There seems to me to be plenty of room for participation or for just viewing, as the case may be. And there also seems to be plenty of room for anyone's thread without infringing on anyone else's space or time.

My point is that there is no point joining here if you don't plan on participating. Anyone can read the place without joining.