Remember when?

[soulster]

Attachment 11604
Benny Hill may have been a racist, or not. But, I doubt that that joke proves anything. That problem that several oriental languages have is the key to making that off-colour joke. And, based on the bulk of material Hill used in his show, I'd guess that it was strictly used for making that joke and NOT-at-all for poking fun at Japanese people or orientals in general.

BTW, it is now insulting to say "oriental". The correct term is "Asian", as not all Asians are from the orient.

[robb_k]

BTW, it is now insulting to say "oriental". The correct term is "Asian", as not all Asians are from the orient.

Maybe "Asians" is a correct term from anyone from Asia, and "Orientals" is a reasonable term for anyone from The Orient [[depending upon how Orient is defined). The Orient would be a subset of Asia, and represent the northeastern and southeastern portions of that continent. I was not trying to disparage or typecast anyone from those areas.

I have no problem with people calling me a North American or a Dutchman, or a Jew.

I also wouldn't mind anyone saying that because the languages I speak don't make some of the sounds I would hear in Clicking languages, or some of the more difficult dipthongs, glottal stops and other choking and gagging sounds made in some languages [[like The Hamitic languages, Danish or Arabic or some Siberian or Amazonian or New Guinean or African [[non-Hamitic languages), that I can't distinguish between two of those sounds. I wouldn't consider that racist, or offensive. I think that a word joke connected with not recognising that difference could be funny, regardless of whether I, or someone else would make that mistake.

I, myself once called a man whose hand I was shaking, "Mr. Hemmerhoids" because I couldn't hear the difference between the Arabic words, Nassour and Nassouhh [[which has a slight "r" sound at the end.

It was very, very funny, in an official meeting with my engineering firm and City and regional water authority officials in Jordan, and I was the but of jokes. I am now an urban legend in Jordan, as the ignorant "Westerner" who made that mistake. It's very funny, regardless of who did it, and the people laughing were not typecasting all Westerners and making fun of all of them as "inferiors".

[marv2]

Remember this PSA?

[soulster]

Maybe "Asians" is a correct term from anyone from Asia, and "Orientals" is a reasonable term for anyone from The Orient [[depending upon how Orient is defined). The Orient would be a subset of Asia, and represent the northeastern and southeastern portions of that continent. I was not trying to disparage or typecast anyone from those areas.

I know you mean no malice. You're a good guy! The insult is manifested in the suggestion by using the term "Oriental" that all Asians are the same. It's like saying all Blacks are the same because their heritage is from Africa. This is one of the reasons I object to the term "African-American".

I also realize that you are of an older generation who grew up with, or are used to older descriptors. There are people who still use "colored" to describe Blacks, and that is considered insulting today. But, things change. Specifically, the use of the descriptor "colored" isn't the insult. It is the failure or refusal to recognize change and realize the desires of a group of people that is the insulting part.

I have no problem with people calling me a North American or a Dutchman, or a Jew.

Well, that's you, but you can;'t assume that no one else is bothered by being classified in such a large monolithic group. In fact, in this case, you have Asian cultures that have despised other Asians for centuries for various reasons.

I also wouldn't mind anyone saying that because the languages I speak don't make some of the sounds I would hear in Clicking languages, or some of the more difficult dipthongs, glottal stops and other choking and gagging sounds made in some languages [[like The Hamitic languages, Danish or Arabic or some Siberian or Amazonian or New Guinean or African [[non-Hamitic languages), that I can't distinguish between two of those sounds. I wouldn't consider that racist, or offensive. I think that a word joke connected with not recognising that difference could be funny, regardless of whether I, or someone else would make that mistake.

I, myself once called a man whose hand I was shaking, "Mr. Hemmerhoids" because I couldn't hear the difference between the Arabic words, Nassour and Nassouhh [[which has a slight "r" sound at the end.

It was very, very funny, in an official meeting with my engineering firm and City and regional water authority officials in Jordan, and I was the but of jokes. I am now an urban legend in Jordan, as the ignorant "Westerner" who made that mistake. It's very funny, regardless of who did it, and the people laughing were not typecasting all Westerners and making fun of all of them as "inferiors".

Again, you can't assume that every group shares your preferences.

This post and angle of discussion can be included in this thread as a 'remember when" people used to be called different things. Is that a stretch? I don't know.

Oh well...carry on!

[soulster]

Remember this PSA?

We didn't have that. We just had the color bar test screen.

[robb_k]

I know you mean malice. You're a good guy! The insult is manifested in the suggestion by using the term "Oriental" that all Asians are the same. It's like saying all Blacks are the same because their heritage is from Africa. This is one of the reasons I object to the term "African-American".

I also realize that you are of an older generation who grew up with, or are used to older descriptors. There are people who still use "colored" to describe Blacks, and that is considered insulting today. But, things change. Specifically, the use of the descriptor "colored" isn't the insult. It is the failure or refusal to recognize change and realize the desires of a group of people that is the insulting part.



Well, that's you, but you can;'t assume that no one else is bothered by being classified in such a large monolithic group. In fact, in this case, you have Asian cultures that have despised other Asians for centuries for various reasons.



Again, you can't assume that every group shares your preferences.

This post and angle of discussion can be included in this thread as a 'remember when" people used to be called different things. Is that a stretch? I don't know.

Oh well...carry on!

I understand your point. I am Jewish, raised mainly with concentration camp survivors. I've encountered lots of prejudice. I also lived and worked on The South Side of Chicago, worked in South Los Angeles, and lived in the small Ghetto of San Mateo, CA. I don't like when people stereotype large groups, or say bad things about groups of people. But don't we need terms to describe groups of people?

Or should we just keep away from referring to guesses about people's ancestry?

We're all "cousins", having descended from one
woman from 100,000 years ago and a handful of men from 130,000 years ago. So, were all of "African" origin. Were all descended from green algae. So, when someone calls someone "pond scum" the object of the ridicule shouldn't be offended.

I have no energy invested in people continuing to call others Blacks, Negroes, Colourds, just because I've been around a long time.

When I used the term "oriental", I was merely referring to the look of their body features, which SOMETIMES, but not always also includes the colour of their skin. I NEVER mean it to imply that all those people behave a certain way. I come from a family, half of whom were murdered because the leaders of the murderer society told their people that THESE particular citizens had no right to be citizens of that country, nor had any right to even live, rather than to die and thereby "clean" the place up a bit.

I don't like when people are lumped together to be ridiculed. I suppose I wouldn't like someone saying that all Canadians or all Dutch people are alike. I've always wanted to be judged by my actions and not prejudged. So, I'm sure I agree with all your points.

But, I see that you think that people who innocently lump people together in description are also causing harm, because that encourages people who do that for purposes of disparaging them, to do so.

[soulster]

Or should we just keep away from referring to guesses about people's ancestry?

Today, that is the best way to go, because you cannot always tell.

When I used the term "oriental", I was merely referring to the look of their body features, which SOMETIMES, but not always also includes the colour of their skin.

That's it right there! The features vary amongst Asians. A Korean does not look like a Japanese, and they do not look Filipino, and they do not look Indian. Get my point?

But, I see that you think that people who innocently lump people together in description are also causing harm, because that encourages people who do that for purposes of disparaging them, to do so.

I've outlined the folly of doing so above. In the old days, people lumped people into groups based on superficial features or behaviour. That is stereotyping.

[Jerry Oz]

For people who care, ethnic groups should have the right to define their identity and are justly offended when others label them them in other ways. To wit, the Washington Redskins. There is a huge debate among White, Black, and Red people about whether it is a pejorative. How dare anybody suggest that Native peoples have no right to take offense to that name, which was given by one of the most notoriously racist team owners in American team sports? Nobody would address a room full of Native American businessmen with that word, proving it to be offensive.

It's consequently not for debate whether it is proper to continue using it. The same applies toward Asian peoples. The imperialist conflict between Japan and China was biblical in proportion and referring to them together is offensive for many still, even though the current generation seems to be moving past it. Most would not stand before an assembly of southeast Asians and call them "Orientals".

It's tricky. Some Black people don't like the word "Black". Some people are cool with being called Black but loathe being called "negro", which is Spanish for the same word. The new title is "people of color", which we accept while simultaneously abhorring "colored people" as an especially vile phrase. I'll never understand why we continue to label people based on looks. It's a deeply ingrained primal reflex for a species that should have moved past it a long time ago.

[soulster]

Many people are offended by the term "people of color". This became an issue last year in the news, if you recall. Also, when I was growing up, Blacks used "negro" as a lighthearted insult among friends and family. Today, younger Blacks see that as a racist insult because it sounds too close to the n-word, not realizing that "negro" is the Spanish word for Black. However, older people will tell you that "negro' started out as an insult because it was used as a mild variation of the n-word. "Black" used to be an insult until the late 60s. The reason it was adopted by Blacks is because Blacks chose it for themselves, not Whites. "African-American was designated to be more political than anything else, and is woefully inaccurate for most Americans. And, now we have a U.S. President who truly is an African-American who is also bi-racial, but identifies with Black.

The use of "Redskins" has a lot to do with those who resist the alleged "political correctness", and ignore the feelings of American Indians. And, BTW, it is now incorrect to call tribes "Native Americans", as there is a question as to which groups were actually on this land first, if there was a first group. So, it seems that we are back to "American Indian", which confuses those who have a national Indian [[as in the nation of India) heritage. Let's not even get into Latinos/Chicano/Mexican-American/Mexican/Hispanic, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Asian, Pacific Islander, Asian...the list goes on and on...

[Jerry Oz]

One day, the only label that will be used will be "people". It's the only one that's necessary. When you're lying on that gurney and you need two pints of blood, Black blood, White blood, Yellow blood, Red blood, Brown blood, Jewish or Islamic, Catholic or Protestant, gay or straight, old or young, dwarf or giant, fat or skinny blood isn't on the menu. You will be happy with it so long as it's human, which should shut the book on racism [[but won't).

People are people.

[soulster]

One day, the only label that will be used will be "people". It's the only one that's necessary. When you're lying on that gurney and you need two pints of blood, Black blood, White blood, Yellow blood, Red blood, Brown blood, Jewish or Islamic, Catholic or Protestant, gay or straight, old or young, dwarf or giant, fat or skinny blood isn't on the menu. You will be happy with it so long as it's human, which should shut the book on racism [[but won't).

People are people.

Tell that to president Trump.

[Jerry Oz]

Tell that to president Trump.

If he needs it, he can't have my blood. Damn. Remember when politicians [[crooked as they have always been) still managed to run the country instead of sabotage it so they could assume control in four years? America first, my ass.

And for that matter, I'd be cool with a "Make America Great" presidential slogan, but adding "Again" at the end is clear code for the intent to bring back Jim Crow. The only good thing that sucker has done is turned on the light so we can see how many racists are running around without our knowledge. I knew they were out there, but it's shocking to see them actually be proud of the fact again.

[144man]

One day, the only label that will be used will be "people". It's the only one that's necessary. When you're lying on that gurney and you need two pints of blood, Black blood, White blood, Yellow blood, Red blood, Brown blood, Jewish or Islamic, Catholic or Protestant, gay or straight, old or young, dwarf or giant, fat or skinny blood isn't on the menu. You will be happy with it so long as it's human, which should shut the book on racism [[but won't).

People are people.

I went to a party once with a work-colleague of mine, and we were the only white males there. I'd have to call the other men there black if only because of the fact that I've got eyes.

[144man]

BTW, it is now insulting to say "oriental". The correct term is "Asian", as not all Asians are from the orient.

That distinction hasn't reached the UK yet. I doubt if anyone over here would take very kindly to being told "oriental" was an unacceptable term. As good race relations largely depend on the goodwill of the majority, an insistence on political correctness can be counter-productive.

[144man]

Do you remember when you could tell a joke like "Did you hear about the Indian cloakroom attendant, Mahatma Coat?" and not have to worry that you might be offending somebody?

[theboyfromxtown]

Do you remember when you could tell a joke like "Did you hear about the Indian cloakroom attendant, Mahatma Coat?" and not have to worry that you might be offending somebody?

You only have to see re-runs of old comedy programs to realise how things are changed,

[144man]

You only have to see re-runs of old comedy programs to realise how things are changed,

Changed for the better, changed for the worse, or just different?

[Jerry Oz]

Do you remember when you could tell a joke like "Did you hear about the Indian cloakroom attendant, Mahatma Coat?" and not have to worry that you might be offending somebody?

When you say you didn't have to worry about offending somebody, are you assuming that you weren't already offending them [[you were) or are you more concerned with the fallout you will receive for telling such a joke? There's a world of difference between laughing with me and laughing at me. You may not be racist for telling the joke, but for someone of that ethnicity to hear a dozen racists repeat it the next day is more than enough for me to object to it.

I remember listening to Sammy Davis, Jr. being humiliated by the rest of the Rat Pack and even at ten years of age, I was embarrassed for him and felt shame to hear them and the audience laugh at him. If there's a line of propriety for jokes among friends, they stepped over often and by a lot. He deserved better.

And this holds true for Black comedians telling jokes about White people as well. We are clearly not familiar enough with each other that we can discuss societal racism to a productive end, so why should we think laughing at each other about race is a good idea? Screw it with laughing at me until I have equal opportunity to thrive and equal protection under law.

[144man]

I was specifically talking about stupid jokes like the one above which is decades old, yet David Jason had to apologise when he told that joke in 2009. I don't even think the Mahatma Coat joke is racist, because basically it's just a play on words, and I fail to understand how a pun can be racist. In fact it's a variant on the joke about the Scottish cloakroom attendant, Angus McCoatup. Either both of them are equally racist, or neither of them are.

[arr&bee]

I SPENT MUCH OF MY CHILDHOOD IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MADE UP OF MANY NATIONALITIES[LUCKY ME]AND NEVER SAW ANYTHING NEAR ANY RACIAL INSULTS[well maybe moms cussing pops out,hehe]BUT WE WERE ALL COOL WITH EACH OTHER.

[marv2]

I SPENT MUCH OF MY CHILDHOOD IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MADE UP OF MANY NATIONALITIES[LUCKY ME]AND NEVER SAW ANYTHING NEAR ANY RACIAL INSULTS[well maybe moms cussing pops out,hehe]BUT WE WERE ALL COOL WITH EACH OTHER.

That's exactly how it was for me. I grew up in a very integrated neighborhood and we all got along extremely well.

[Jerry Oz]

I was specifically talking about stupid jokes like the one above which is decades old, yet David Jason had to apologise when he told that joke in 2009. I don't even think the Mahatma Coat joke is racist, because basically it's just a play on words, and I fail to understand how a pun can be racist. In fact it's a variant on the joke about the Scottish cloakroom attendant, Angus McCoatup. Either both of them are equally racist, or neither of them are.

No disrespect intended, but you should leave it to others to reasonably decide whether they are offended by how they are portrayed. There are plenty of people in the US who collect blackface memorabilia, all the while suggesting that they are not racist and that people who say they are need to lighten up. They "miss the old days before everybody became politically correct".

But blackface, minstrel shows, Amos 'n Andy, and Stepin Fetchit were never good clean fun. Those portrayals permitted White people to belittle Black people and deny us opportunity by refusing to hire people who didn't have the intellectual capacity or energy to do a good job.

Laugh at jokes about Irishmen, Scots, or your countrymen if you wish. God bless you, if you do. I'll bet you won't go to Belfast and make jokes about Catholic Irishmen. But then, perhaps you would. I don't know.

Make a joke about people who are different from you if you feel compelled. But don't suggest that people who fail to share your humor should get over it. Like it or not, English people have a long sad history with India and a lot of blood was spilled to rectify colonization. If an Indian hears you joke about "Mahatma Coat" and fails to see the humor, I would hope that you understand why.

[arr&bee]

Remember when there were no[pop top]bottles or cans and we had to use a can opener.

[Jerry Oz]

That's exactly how it was for me. I grew up in a very integrated neighborhood and we all got along extremely well.

My neighborhood was 90%+ Black and middle class. My high school was 60% White, with poor and far-from-poor people who all got along with each other. I think I saw two fights in three years and they were between friends. All of that togetherness didn't keep me from being called "n****r" when I went elsewhere, though.

[Jerry Oz]

Remember when there were no[pop top]bottles or cans and we had to use a can opener.

Hah! And you had to poke two holes to get the pop to pour right.

Do you remember when you wondered what was in that huge wrapped box with your name on it that sat under the Christmas tree? Electric football board? Electric train or race track? Now, kids get software, phones, and gift cards, all of which can fit in a shoe box.

[arr&bee]

Yeah,these kids today don't know what fun is.

[soulster]

Hah! And you had to poke two holes to get the pop to pour right.

Do you remember when you wondered what was in that huge wrapped box with your name on it that sat under the Christmas tree? Electric football board? Electric train or race track? Now, kids get software, phones, and gift cards, all of which can fit in a shoe box.

When I was a kid, all I wanted was anything related to music, like tape recorders and albums.

[Jerry Oz]

I was less familiar with albums than 45s. My Pops had a lot of both [[and a few 78s), but I never messed with the albums. Do you remember putting 10 records on the holder, putting the arm on it, and letting them drop and play one at a time?

[robb_k]

I didn't get Christmas presents, but, for my birthdays, I hoped for a new hockey stick, gloves, and pucks, and even a metal goal & net.

Records, I always bought myself except got a bunch of 45s from my parents on my birthdays in 1953 and 1954. After that, I worked and had lots of my own money.

[Jerry Oz]

I bought my first album in 1978 after I took my first job. The first records that I bought were Gloryhalastoopid by Parliament, Candy by Con Funk Shun, Cameosis by Cameo. I would take them to school and the art teacher would play them on the turntable that he kept there. In coming years, I'd purchase albums every week when I got paid [[between two and six per week). I bought more when I started appreciating classic and contemporary jazz and '50s R&B [[which I still prefer to '60s R&B and soul).

I'm glad I did now, because there are many songs that I can't find digitally but I can record them onto my computer from vinyl. It's a great time to be alive.

[144man]

No disrespect intended, but you should leave it to others to reasonably decide whether they are offended by how they are portrayed. There are plenty of people in the US who collect blackface memorabilia, all the while suggesting that they are not racist and that people who say they are need to lighten up. They "miss the old days before everybody became politically correct".

But blackface, minstrel shows, Amos 'n Andy, and Stepin Fetchit were never good clean fun. Those portrayals permitted White people to belittle Black people and deny us opportunity by refusing to hire people who didn't have the intellectual capacity or energy to do a good job.

Laugh at jokes about Irishmen, Scots, or your countrymen if you wish. God bless you, if you do. I'll bet you won't go to Belfast and make jokes about Catholic Irishmen. But then, perhaps you would. I don't know.

Make a joke about people who are different from you if you feel compelled. But don't suggest that people who fail to share your humor should get over it. Like it or not, English people have a long sad history with India and a lot of blood was spilled to rectify colonization. If an Indian hears you joke about "Mahatma Coat" and fails to see the humor, I would hope that you understand why.

I do not approve of blackface jokes. As for Irish jokes, the Irish make the same jokes about the the Kerrymen. I never make Irish jokes because it is wrong to portray one racial group as intellectually inferior to another.

The Mahatma Coat joke [[which apparently first originated as a "Knock Knock" joke) is different because it has nothing to do with racial or cultural stereotypes.

[Jerry Oz]

I do not approve of blackface jokes. As for Irish jokes, the Irish make the same jokes about the the Kerrymen. I never make Irish jokes because it is wrong to portray one racial group as intellectually inferior to another.

The Mahatma Coat joke [[which apparently first originated as a "Knock Knock" joke) is different because it has nothing to do with racial or cultural stereotypes.

That's cool, my friend. I just wanted to let you know why someone of Indian descent might find it less funny than you do. But I'm certainly not suggesting that you're wrong to laugh at it. In past times, I laughed at worst jokes than that so I'm not qualified to judge anyone unless there is a clear reason that they deserve it [[Trump).

[marv2]

My neighborhood was 90%+ Black and middle class. My high school was 60% White, with poor and far-from-poor people who all got along with each other. I think I saw two fights in three years and they were between friends. All of that togetherness didn't keep me from being called "n****r" when I went elsewhere, though.

My neighborhood was integrated. My elementary/Jr. High was 60% white, 40% black when I started and became about 70% black and 30% white by the time I graduated from Jr. High. My High School was 98% black. My college was 99.9% white. Through all of that I never had any real problems except one asshole [[who happened to be black) spit on my new sneakers during Freshman basketball practice in high school.

[marv2]

Remember when there were no[pop top]bottles or cans and we had to use a can opener.

I remember those days well.

[lakeside]

Remember transistor radio's? I was about 13 when I got one and boy, did I think I was cool.
Sadly, I was not cool....then....or ever.

[Jerry Oz]

My neighborhood was integrated. My elementary/Jr. High was 60% white, 40% black when I started and became about 70% black and 30% white by the time I graduated from Jr. High. My High School was 98% black. My college was 99.9% white. Through all of that I never had any real problems except one asshole [[who happened to be black) spit on my new sneakers during Freshman basketball practice in high school.

When I was twelve years old, I was at my aunt's house in Virginia while on family vacation. I got bored, so I went to the back yard to toss a Frisbee around. It sailed on me and landed in a neighbor's yard. I climbed the fence to get it and was promptly called every foul and racist term imaginable by the old man who lived next door. It was one of the most impactful moments of my life and that's why I don't tolerate racists as an adult. Sadly, it wasn't last time I had to deal with that BS, the other incidents occurring in the integrated and racially inclusive North.

[arr&bee]

Yep i remember those old stereos with the disk dropper,what fun we had,i remember my aunt was a dinah washington fan and had alot of her records which was my introduction to her,for me as a kid who loved music her sound was so cool and refreshing unlike the rock an roll we were used to everyday,and those album covers were cool too.

[marv2]

Remember transistor radio's? I was about 13 when I got one and boy, did I think I was cool.
Sadly, I was not cool....then....or ever.

I had a red and black that I pulled apart to see the insides LOL

[marv2]

When I was twelve years old, I was at my aunt's house in Virginia while on family vacation. I got bored, so I went to the back yard to toss a Frisbee around. It sailed on me and landed in a neighbor's yard. I climbed the fence to get it and was promptly called every foul and racist term imaginable by the old man who lived next door. It was one of the most impactful moments of my life and that's why I don't tolerate racists as an adult. Sadly, it wasn't last time I had to deal with that BS, the other incidents occurring in the integrated and racially inclusive North.

I was 22 the first time I had the N-word hurled at me by a car full of white guys passing by in Denver Co. I was at the bus stop behind my building on my way to work one afternoon.

[marv2]

Memba them.......? Funny, in all those years in the 60s, we never got to see the show in color.

Attachment 11615

[arr&bee]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...i had a teacher who looked like mr.peabody.

[arr&bee]

Remember when the dj's had thier little raps like...if i tell you a mosquito can pull a plow,don't you call me a lie and ask me how,just hitch him up and take a ride and i'll be right there by your side..classic!!

[marv2]

Remember when the dj's had thier little raps like...if i tell you a mosquito can pull a plow,don't you call me a lie and ask me how,just hitch him up and take a ride and i'll be right there by your side..classic!!

That was so cool.
I miss radio DJ's

[Jerry Oz]

LOL. One of our local radio stations is on 1230 AM. When I was a little boy and they played their station identification [[a women's chorus singing "1230, WCOL"), I would wonder how the time hadn't changed since they last announced the time.

[soulster]

Yep i remember those old stereos with the disk dropper,what fun we had,i remember my aunt was a dinah washington fan and had alot of her records which was my introduction to her,for me as a kid who loved music her sound was so cool and refreshing unlike the rock an roll we were used to everyday,and those album covers were cool too.

My mother was the biggest Dinah Washington fan too! her favorite song was "I Understand".

[144man]

That's cool, my friend. I just wanted to let you know why someone of Indian descent might find it less funny than you do. But I'm certainly not suggesting that you're wrong to laugh at it. In past times, I laughed at worst jokes than that so I'm not qualified to judge anyone unless there is a clear reason that they deserve it [[Trump).

I'm cool with that. You yourself once made a similar and terrible joke, which depended on the fact that "European" sounds like "You're a-peeing". As a European myself, I'm certainly not going to take offence

[Jerry Oz]

And you recall that was me with that awful joke, why?!!

[arr&bee]

that was so cool.
I miss radio dj's

hey marv,the moonman whose still around today[a d.c.-baltimore legend]had one that went...i got hay for the donkey,peanuts for the monkey,whiskey for the frisky and wine for the blind...and nobody told those guys what to play.

[marv2]

Here's one of the few I could find that I grew up with. Mojoman from WOHO AM Toledo:

[robb_k]

Does anyone have clothes kept 'for best' [[Sunday, or otherwise), anymore?

I have one suit, that I bought in 1972 [[yes, it still fits perfectly), which I wear to weddings, bar mitzvahs and funerals. I work at home, so no formal clothes. As an artist, I can wear jeans and a T-shirt at meetings with my editors, and at drawing signings.

As an employee for only one year [[engineering firm), I had to wear a suit every day. For 20 years after that, I worked for The UN, as a consultant on development projects in The 3rd World. I only had to wear a suit a few days a year, in meetings with government representatives [[I only had that suit I bought in 1972). In 10 years at Motown, I wore jeans and T-shirts or Pendletons.