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  1. #1
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    Why Detroit, Chicago, and Philly, but not NYC in classic soul?

    I'm sure people can link some good New York City soul groups here, but why is the power structure situated [[or was formerly situated) in Detroit, Chicago, and Philly? Why is the nation's biggest city a minor league player when it comes to soul music history? One can trace all the soul super groups to those three cities, with some exceptions [[O'Jays from Canton, Ohio, for example).

    I'm sure there was talent back in the day in NYC and there's talent now? But man, talk about getting punked by Philly, Motown, Chi-Town.

    After watching the documentary on Seattle soul where I heard some good music, I'm convinced talent will only take you so far. You simply must have a Berry Gordy or Gamble & Huff to make things go, to not only produce the great talent, but also promote it. [[Let's not forget Stax, too, was not located in New York City.) SOLAR records had another run out of L.A.

    Just curious as to why New York City lags behind in soul music history. Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Hmmmmm,good question i'm gonna leave this one for one of the sages to answer,when i think of new york i think of the drifters and the brill building[of course alot of songs came outta that place]but maybe not alot of soul music,didn't the shirelles record out of new york?

  3. #3
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    And how many of the[atlantic]soul artist actually recorded in new york,i think the early ben e king,solomon burke,although wilson pickett recorded in[muscle shoulds]as did aretha i'm sure he did some things up north and what about the spinners early work for atlantic??? Hmmmmmmm!!!

  4. #4
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    Spinners are from Detroit, Michigan. They did the bulk of their hits in the Sigma Sound Studios in Philadelphia. I know the Big Appleites will try and claim success of other groups from Detroit and Chicago -- but I ain't buying. The Spinners relationship to NYC is hardly anything at all. Hmmmm indeed! Sigma Sound ain't in the Big Apple.

  5. #5
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    NYC was no slouch...I think the Bell Sound Studios were located there. I think a lot of the Scepter/Wand sides were cut in New York, as were the sides on the Juggy Murray family of labels [[Sue, Symbol, etc.).

    Best,

    Mark

  6. #6
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    Before I attempt to delve into this, let me ask for clarification. Are we talking a specific sound? Artists that originated in New York or Successful record labels, studios out of New York?

  7. #7
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    N.Y. as in the State and in the city ,[[believe me there is a slight difference ,in that N.Y.C. while located in N.Y.S. , is for lack of a better discription , MECCA. MECCA for finance ,world culture and anything else you can think of. We are the portal to the world as far as music is concerned. The "sounds and styles" of Philly ,Detroit, Chicago ,L.A. ,Alabama and Memphis would not be known outside their own localities , without going thru N.Y.C. in some form or fashion. Philly ,Detroit, Chicago ,L.A. ,Alabama and Memphis classic soul is just that , to a major degree because they are not "From N.Y." Classic Soul /R&B is by nature indiginous to the Southern U.S. states. The sound of N.Y. is a product of all those styles .
    In addition N.Y. has spawned major important aspects of the Soul/R&B/Jazz/Dance, genres in it's own right ,as mentioned by arr&bee re: ,the Brill Bldg and I will add to that ,as far back as the conception of Bop in Jazz thru the clubs on 52nd Street and "Uptown" in Harlem , Doo-Opp style in the 50's , the conception of both Rap and Hip-Hop [[in it's original form) ,and the development of the Re-Mix style of mixing, scratching , conception of the 12' single . N.Y. does not have a large part as far as artists but we had The Hit Factory ,Electric Ladyland ,Sterling ,Media ,Bell ,Atlantic and Columbia studios.
    Last edited by daddyacey; 12-05-2010 at 05:41 AM.

  8. #8
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    daddyacey
    well put and thought out!
    i think nyc got left behind.in the 20's-50's nyc was the place,wasnt it?jazz in harlem?blue note records?the apollo?
    question,was chelsea records [[william devaughn et al) in/from the new york district chelsea?
    how about funkin' for jamaica,that was the new york jamaica?funky nassau is another?sugar hill gang and sugar hill records arent they from ny?
    it is puzzling why such a city as ny isnt there amongst the sounds,eg.detroit,philly,memphis,new orleans etc.

  9. #9
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    Daddyacey excellent post! Those were some of the thoughts I was having in trying to explain New York City's major contributions to the soul music scene.

    Tamla617, yes the "Jamaica" referred to in Funkin for Jamaica, is Jamaica, Queens. Although there is a Nassau County here on Long Island, I don't believe that is what is referred to in the record "Funky Nassau. Sugar Hill Records was started by Sylvia Robinson in New Jersey.

  10. #10
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    Let me clarify: I'm not talking about where contracts were signed or groups played concerts. I'm talking about where the groups were from and where they recorded. They primarily were from Chicago, Detroit, and Philly, with the southern sound [[Stax) also thrown in.

    I'm sorry, Motown isn't from NYC, it's just not. They originated and recorded in Detroit. They may have hired a lawyer from NYC.

    I'm not talking about some underground recordings or some obscure club circuit. I'm talking about big time hit-making machines and big-time groups and singers: Aretha, Tempts, Four Tops, Spinners, Tyrone Davis, Chi-Lites, all those Stax performers. NYC doesn't have a hand in hardly any of them, and for some, they had to GO TO DETROIT to make it happen. Heck, even The O'Jays said in "Unsung" that they "Had to get back to the MIDWEST as that was where soul music was happening."

    I'm not talking about cutting a track in NYC or a lawyer signing contracts in the Big Apple. I'm talking about where these groups came from and where they did most of their recordings. FACT: It's NOT NYC. It's Detroit, Chicago, Philly, and Stax.

    Again, I ask the question: Why is NYC out of the picture?

    It's said it's a combo of these sounds. That's a cop-out. Where's your own sound? In soul music history, NYC gets owned by these others cities, sorry, it just does.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsull1 View Post
    I'm sure people can link some good New York City soul groups here, but why is the power structure situated [[or was formerly situated) in Detroit, Chicago, and Philly? Why is the nation's biggest city a minor league player when it comes to soul music history? One can trace all the soul super groups to those three cities, with some exceptions [[O'Jays from Canton, Ohio, for example).
    You forgot Memphis, Atlanta, Muscle Shoals, and New Orleans. No matter what northern city you pick, it all started in the south! And, for a time, even Los Angeles was a player in soul music.

  12. #12
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    There was indeed a New York sound, way before Phiily, D-Town and Chicago. Chuck Jackson, Solomon Burke, Maxine Brown, Baby Washington, just to name a few. Oh, Garnett Mimms and Howard Tate, too. Amongst hundreds of others. The New York "uptown" sound was big and still sounds as good today as when it was recorded.
    Many of the session guys are amongst the best in the business
    Bernard Purdie on drums
    Jerry Jammott and Chuck Rainey on bass
    Eric Gale and Cornell Dupree on guitar.
    King Curtis on Sax.
    Producers like Burt Burns, Jerry Ragavoy and Bobby Robinson.

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