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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    You're diving quite deep into hearsay and conjecture here. For instance, "He told them what he wanted: Diana the sole lead. They agreed." I have never seen this printed anywhere or spoken by anyone. Berry did not outright tell them he only wanted Diana by even a stretch. In fact, he told them he didn't want them at ALL at that first audition. Not Diana.

    Second, in regards to the "Oh NO! THAT wouldn't be fair. I'M not going to be trampled on. I'll go back to the projects, thanks anyway," argument, you are out of context. Flo and Mary were not happy with several complicated issues, including their underutilization in the group, Diana's constant special treatment, and Berry's growing snubbing of not only Mary and Flo's talents, but everyone else's as well. You say that any other girl would not have turned down a part to sing backup in the most famous group, but then you say that if Mary and Flo didn't like it, they shouldn't have stayed. That's contradictory. Not to mention the girls were only teenagers and, reasonably, had no understanding of the complicated politics of show business. Were they expected to, as high schoolers, see Berry's long-term plan for crossover appeal? The girls wanted to SING. Eventually, Mary and Flo were relegated to "ooh's" and "ahh's," and as girls who worked so hard and for so long on their craft, that's pretty insulting.

    In regards to "leaving" when Diana was chosen in 1963, you cannot possibly believe it was that simple. First, they were under contract. Legally that was not possible. Second, even though Berry told them they wanted Diana on leads, the girls were still quite highly utilized - if not so much on leads, on harmony. Just because you don't like something right off the bat, you don't just leave. The girls worked too hard to do that. That's not the sneaky part. The sneaky part was gradually reducing Mary and Flo's vocal parts, their levels on recordings, and, finally, their involvement altogether on records. Berry straight up told Mary that she couldn't sing, and Flo was once [[at least) told to stand several feet away from the mic. It wasn't the single time of being told that Diana was going to be lead that destroyed the group unity. It was repeated occurrences of conflicts of interest that was rightfully perceived as unfair by not only Mary and Flo, but other acts in Motown, as well.

    Re: Diana trampling others. You can not deny that, at least in the early days, Diana behaved quite wildly, and frankly, poorly, to many in the Motown caravan. It's all documented. Threatening to run over Mary Wells, jumping on others for a can of hairspray, and outright stealing stage patter of other acts. Admittedly, the former two examples lack sustainable credibility, but her selfish behavior back in those days is well documented by many. That's not to say that Diana did not mature, but she burned a lot of bridges in those early days. I love Diana and think she is a great entertainer, but it cannot be argued that she instigated trouble on a number of occasions. Part of that, of course, comes from a lack of maturity, but regardless...

    Regarding Mary and Flo being non-essential. Fans knew each Supreme by name. Fans definitely had their favorites, and not all of them like Diana. When Berry considered not having Florence appear at the Copa in 1966, Jules Podell INSISTED that each original Supreme appear. When Flo was ousted, fans demanded that she be reinstalled - continuing all the way through Diana's leaving. The sound of the records changed drastically once Flo left or once the Andantes replaced the girls. It's not a coincidence that records didn't sell as well once that unique sound was tampered with. The Supremes as DMF had a unique, inimitable sound. Once the Andantes replaced them, that was destroyed. As good as the Andantes were, they can be heard on countless records by other artists, thereby negating that 'unique' factor. Not to mention that Mary, Flo, and Diana each had their very own, defined personalities. Eventually, especially once Cindy came in, their was no more individual personalities. Quite literally, the name change from "The Supremes" as a solid unit to "Diana Ross & the Supremes" set Diana as the sole personality of the group with Cindy and Mary as merely background singers. They were still successful live, but droves of fans turned away once that group solidarity was destroyed.
    I can very much appreciate your post, because it is the truth!

  2. #102
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    And the single thing that had the most to do with the disharmony was taking Flos People solo away from her. And for all of that stuff per Berry's genius that was a hugely stupid thing to do per group cohesion...much less helping to break Flos spirit.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    It's all documented. Threatening to run over Mary Wells...
    Actually, Gladys Horton was the target of that vehicular maneuver.

  4. #104
    supremester Guest
    Mary lied about Diana taking People from Flo. Flo was ill and they wanted the song in as it was a smash hit song from a current Broadway show, so Ross did the whole thing UNTIL Flo was ok and it went back to a duet. Mary implied it was "Flo's song" and that she never sang it again. Mary also "forgot" to mention that SHE wound up singing it with Flo - Mary's first solo in the act - somehow all that got left out except for the Diana took People part.
    That's one example of her BS.
    Want more?

    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    What the heck? What did Mary lie about? Shelley Berger told her she was TOO NICE in her book! Lol...geez and some people complain about stuff said about Diana. Lolol

  5. #105
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    ^ Really? I was left under the impression that after Diana agreed to do the song [[at Florence's request), only Diana was allowed to sing it? Then again, that may have been trying to build more to the story than it was. The Supremes, like many of the Motown legends, led a complex story that impacted three people in three different ways.

  6. #106
    supremester Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    You're diving quite deep into hearsay and conjecture here. For instance, "He told them what he wanted: Diana the sole lead. They agreed." I have never seen this printed anywhere or spoken by anyone. Berry did not outright tell them he only wanted Diana by even a stretch. In fact, he told them he didn't want them at ALL at that first audition. Not Diana.

    I wasn't referring to that in the audition. He told them that in 1963. They agreed. They could have left. They were nobodies - like Barbara Martin - Berry would have let them go. He did not prize their talent like say, Mary Wells. THAT, he'd litigate for. People don't litigate unless there is money or some other prize. What would Berry get if he sued Flo & Mary - food stamps?

    Second, in regards to the "Oh NO! THAT wouldn't be fair. I'M not going to be trampled on. I'll go back to the projects, thanks anyway," argument, you are out of context. Flo and Mary were not happy with several complicated issues, including their underutilization in the group, Diana's constant special treatment, and Berry's growing snubbing of not only Mary and Flo's talents, but everyone else's as well. You say that any other girl would not have turned down a part to sing backup in the most famous group, but then you say that if Mary and Flo didn't like it, they shouldn't have stayed. That's contradictory. Not to mention the girls were only teenagers and, reasonably, had no understanding of the complicated politics of show business. Were they expected to, as high schoolers, see Berry's long-term plan for crossover appeal? The girls wanted to SING. Eventually, Mary and Flo were relegated to "ooh's" and "ahh's," and as girls who worked so hard and for so long on their craft, that's pretty insulting.

    I worded my supposition poorly. My point is: so the fuck what? From the projects to superstars - unbelievable success. I'm saying IF Berry had told them, at 16, exactly what their role in the biggest group ever would be "ooo's and ahhh's" - would they take it or walk? I bet they'd take it.

    In regards to "leaving" when Diana was chosen in 1963, you cannot possibly believe it was that simple. First, they were under contract. Legally that was not possible. Second, even though Berry told them they wanted Diana on leads, the girls were still quite highly utilized - if not so much on leads, on harmony. Just because you don't like something right off the bat, you don't just leave. The girls worked too hard to do that. That's not the sneaky part. The sneaky part was gradually reducing Mary and Flo's vocal parts, their levels on recordings, and, finally, their involvement altogether on records. Berry straight up told Mary that she couldn't sing, and Flo was once [[at least) told to stand several feet away from the mic. It wasn't the single time of being told that Diana was going to be lead that destroyed the group unity. It was repeated occurrences of conflicts of interest that was rightfully perceived as unfair by not only Mary and Flo, but other acts in Motown, as well.

    Berry wasn't sneaking. He did it all right out front. He was Berry Gordy - the chairman. He didn't have to sneak. He didn't care one whit about anything but making money. That includes group unity. That includes his treatment of Raynoma, firing Flo, working Ross down to 95#, and giving The Supremes 5 cents on the dollar of what they earned [[my estimate) Berry Gordy didn't GAF what people thought. He just wanted money and he was totally unapologetic about it. Get in his way, you're out. period. He didn't have to sneak or be devious. He did it all right out in the open. It may not have been what Mary or Flo liked, but he didn't care. He probably assumed being in the #1 group would be enough. He didn't care that Ross was unhappy or stressed out either. Mary made it sound like it was some secret plot that Berry & Diana were crafting. It was no secret. Everyone having to do with The Supremes supported the program because the paid the bills.


    Re: Diana trampling others. You can not deny that, at least in the early days, Diana behaved quite wildly, and frankly, poorly, to many in the Motown caravan. It's all documented. Threatening to run over Mary Wells, jumping on others for a can of hairspray, and outright stealing stage patter of other acts. Admittedly, the former two examples lack sustainable credibility, but her selfish behavior back in those days is well documented by many. That's not to say that Diana did not mature, but she burned a lot of bridges in those early days. I love Diana and think she is a great entertainer, but it cannot be argued that she instigated trouble on a number of occasions. Part of that, of course, comes from a lack of maturity, but regardless...

    I'm sure Miss Ross was a handful - I'm sure she's still a handful. I'm sure she didn't try to run anyone over. It's a good stoty, tho. I'm sure she was just being a bratty teenager and pretended to. If a girl can catch an earring on national telervision while performing a song and not even look at the earring, she wouldn't have any trouble running down a whole passel of Marvelettes if she wanted to. Miss Ross is nimble. I don't know how awful she was or wasn't. I know how hard she worked and what the results were: history.

    Regarding Mary and Flo being non-essential. Fans knew each Supreme by name. Fans definitely had their favorites, and not all of them like Diana. When Berry considered not having Florence appear at the Copa in 1966, Jules Podell INSISTED that each original Supreme appear. When Flo was ousted, fans demanded that she be reinstalled - continuing all the way through Diana's leaving. The sound of the records changed drastically once Flo left or once the Andantes replaced the girls. It's not a coincidence that records didn't sell as well once that unique sound was tampered with. The Supremes as DMF had a unique, inimitable sound. Once the Andantes replaced them, that was destroyed. As good as the Andantes were, they can be heard on countless records by other artists, thereby negating that 'unique' factor. Not to mention that Mary, Flo, and Diana each had their very own, defined personalities. Eventually, especially once Cindy came in, their was no more individual personalities. Quite literally, the name change from "The Supremes" as a solid unit to "Diana Ross & the Supremes" set Diana as the sole personality of the group with Cindy and Mary as merely background singers. They were still successful live, but droves of fans turned away once that group solidarity was destroyed.

    No argument that DMF were special and magic together. I saw it first hand. Yes, fans split when Flo left, many more bailed when Ross left. So what? DMC still made a mint, drew
    huge crowds and sold records - just not as much. JMC sold even less. While I agree that The Andantes sound was different than DMF, the main reason records sold less, IMO, is the loss of HDH. EVERYONE suffered the same loss of revenue when HDH left - including Martha & The Tops - they didn't have Andante issues. I wanted Flo back just as much as anyone and the demands were ignored. So what? CB was a smash, Love Child was, Someday was....... You are absolutely correct, but, had Sandra Tilley and Ophelia Pulse joined in 1963 when Mary & Flo bolted cos of oooo's & ahhhh's, Ross' great reviews from last weekend would have been the same. Sandra would have had her fans, Ophelia, her fans and the same shit would have happened. Except maybe one member wouldn't write a book full of one-sided memories, lies and false innuendo to augment a limp solo career.
    Last edited by supremester; 05-25-2015 at 03:07 PM.

  7. #107
    supremester Guest
    Yes, the truth is that Diana never wanted people at The Copa. She was under enough strainas it was with Berry telling her that the entire company was riding on her and her alone. Mary witnessed Berry's treatment of Diana and chose not to write it because it wouldn't play into her Ross: the Villainess story. Randy wrote about it in CHMR. Harvey, Gil & Cholly told me horror stories about it. Only Mary didn't talk about it. Or that She wound up doing People with Flo.
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    ^ Really? I was left under the impression that after Diana agreed to do the song [[at Florence's request), only Diana was allowed to sing it? Then again, that may have been trying to build more to the story than it was. The Supremes, like many of the Motown legends, led a complex story that impacted three people in three different ways.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    And the single thing that had the most to do with the disharmony was taking Flos People solo away from her. And for all of that stuff per Berry's genius that was a hugely stupid thing to do per group cohesion...much less helping to break Flos spirit.
    I could never understand why Diana Ross felt it necessary to take Flo's one and only solo and sing it herself. I mean she had all the other leads. Wasn't that enough?

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    When the Supremes signed with Motown in January 1961 [[months before the Marvelettes joined), Berry Gordy hadn't yet made the announcement that Diana would be the lead vocalist. That happened in late 1963 and that was probably after "When the Love Light Starts Shining Through His Eyes" became their first hit. I think, playing devil's advocate here, Berry wanted his three Motown female groups to have a distinct sound. With the Marvelettes, you had two lead vocalists who were different in style [[Gladys was the harder-edged R&B vocalist and Wanda was a mixture of pop, doo-wop and soul - and later jazz, as Wanda said, she could sing anything, I think her vocals were more impressive than Florence's). With Martha and the Vandellas, you had a brash-sounding young woman leading like an old time gospel song and the other Vandellas were her choir. The Supremes were more pristine and glamorous and all of their vocals were smoother and radio friendly.

    In that regard, BG accomplished that, even if he decided the Supremes [[and more precisely Diana) was his meal ticket to stardom. He worked all three of them to death and splintered them in many ways. The Supremes had a complex history, it's too simple to say "this broke because of x, y and z" but all three of them struggled with it. Berry played all three of them like chumps and didn't care as long as he got his money [[Diana had to start investing in real estate and produce her own videos and TV specials to get loot after she left Motown and signed that $20 million contract after learning she only had $300,000 in her own name whereas Mary toured constantly and Florence just kept getting ripped off by people who were supposed to be in her corner after she left).

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    Yes, the truth is that Diana never wanted people at The Copa. She was under enough strainas it was with Berry telling her that the entire company was riding on her and her alone. Mary witnessed Berry's treatment of Diana and chose not to write it because it wouldn't play into her Ross: the Villainess story. Randy wrote about it in CHMR. Harvey, Gil & Cholly told me horror stories about it. Only Mary didn't talk about it. Or that She wound up doing People with Flo.
    If I'm not mistaken, I saw a clip of them singing People at the Orient, and I think Mary did add her own lead to People... all three of them were singing it at that point. People was never fully Florence's performance though she sung most of it [[very beautifully, might I add... shame the studio version is no longer on YouTube, I dug that over the live versions). To be fair, though, when you compare them singing standards to Patti LaBelle and the Bluebelles, they [[the Supremes) fall flat, just by comparison. I can't imagine them doing Danny Boy for instance but People seemed to be the type of song the Supremes could slay.

  11. #111
    supremester Guest
    I'm not nuts about People - after the huge build up it got in mary's book, I wasn't expecting it to be a duet augmented by a lot of 3 part harmony. Yes, Mary was doing it in The Orient and I have buds who saw her doing it at various times and had no idea why she was calling it Flo's song in her book. My fave DR&TS People is Ross' on GIT.

    I admire Patti's vocal ability - clearly shes got an amazing gift - but I personally don't enjoy her histrionics as much as most people do. Like I much prefer Martha's version of Patti's You'll Never Walk Alone. It's odd because I love Gladys, Martha and queen ree, but patti just doesn't hit me correctly.

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    Sadly it wasn't enough. As Mary said in 2000..Diana has to have everything.

  13. #113
    supremester Guest
    What wasn't enough?

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    Sadly for who Mary? Diana had the talent to have everything and Mary was resentful because she didn't have the talent to have everything!!

  15. #115
    supremester Guest
    She didn't - that's just another of Mary's lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I could never understand why Diana Ross felt it necessary to take Flo's one and only solo and sing it herself. I mean she had all the other leads. Wasn't that enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Actually, Gladys Horton was the target of that vehicular maneuver.
    You're referring to that time in Philadelphia when Diana Ross tried to run over Gladys Horton and the blind kid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Sadly it wasn't enough. As Mary said in 2000..Diana has to have everything.
    That sounds like something really deep rooted; something far more serious than a mere character flaw.

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    As far as what TT wrote none of that was proven per Gladys,the blind kid, Diana's mother or Diana herself. Maybe TT was in the trunk.

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    Lol when was Tony born? No one has seemed to answer that question. He always changes his story. He said he was 12 when he met Florence apparently. I remember going "what superstar [[which Florence was) would trust a 12-year-old kid with private information like that, true or not?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    As far as what TT wrote none of that was proven per Gladys,the blind kid, Diana's mother or Diana herself. Maybe TT was in the trunk.
    Mary wrote about it also and no one sued her over it. How could Diana Ross be so thoughtless and cruel? A blind kid?

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    It's been in a least one other books as I recall. Lala Brooks and others have also spoken about the tantrums. I remember one incident written about and saying Mrs Ross was just mortified by Dianas behavior.
    Last edited by luke; 05-26-2015 at 02:24 PM.

  22. #122
    RossHolloway Guest
    I thought it was during the recording of their album Supreme's sing Country, Western & Pop that it was announced that Diana Ross would sing all leads, even though the song Sunset is clearly a duet with Diana and Mary. All that aside, you cannot argue with success or the fact that people are still arguing the Supreme's group dynamics over 47 years after Florence left the group or 45 years after Diana left to launch her solo career. What we will NEVER fully know are all the details that went on in the group that have been lost to time or just stayed between the group members. And lastly, can we just stop pretending that Diana Ross alone had a diva behavior? It's pretty safe to say that if you dug around long enough you could find individuals who could tell less than flattering stories about ALL Motown's major artists and not just Diana Ross. Janis Gaye's new book on Marvin is an eye opener. I'm sure all the former Vandellas could tell unflattering storys about Martha Reeves, or the Marvalettes about their lead singers. Or the remaining Temps could share unflattering stories about their group members. Heck, I've read that at the end members of the Four Tops weren't even speaking to each other. I don't understand why so called fans of these artists and Motown feel the need to debase any of the singers or groups, seriously, what's the point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossHolloway View Post
    I thought it was during the recording of their album Supreme's sing Country, Western & Pop that it was announced that Diana Ross would sing all leads, even though the song Sunset is clearly a duet with Diana and Mary. All that aside, you cannot argue with success or the fact that people are still arguing the Supreme's group dynamics over 47 years after Florence left the group or 45 years after Diana left to launch her solo career. What we will NEVER fully know are all the details that went on in the group that have been lost to time or just stayed between the group members. And lastly, can we just stop pretending that Diana Ross alone had a diva behavior? It's pretty safe to say that if you dug around long enough you could find individuals who could tell less than flattering stories about ALL Motown's major artists and not just Diana Ross. Janis Gaye's new book on Marvin is an eye opener. I'm sure all the former Vandellas could tell unflattering storys about Martha Reeves, or the Marvalettes about their lead singers. Or the remaining Temps could share unflattering stories about their group members. Heck, I've read that at the end members of the Four Tops weren't even speaking to each other. I don't understand why so called fans of these artists and Motown feel the need to debase any of the singers or groups, seriously, what's the point?
    I don't understand it either. What is the point of arguing over events that happened decades ago. None of us were there, so is it far to judge someone over what someone else told them whether it be true or not

  24. #124
    RossHolloway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    I don't understand it either. What is the point of arguing over events that happened decades ago. None of us were there, so is it far to judge someone over what someone else told them whether it be true or not
    I just think that some people have absolutely NOTHING going on in their personal lives or their lives are so empty that they keep on rehashing meaningless details of things that happened over 50 years ago and can't seem to move on. It's so sad really, I feel sorry for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    It's been in a least one other books as I recall. Lala Brooks and others have also spoken about the tantrums. I remember one incident written about and saying Mrs Ross was just mortified by Dianas behavior.
    Add Dee Dee Sharp and Shirley Alston of the Shirelles to that list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossHolloway View Post
    I thought it was during the recording of their album Supreme's sing Country, Western & Pop that it was announced that Diana Ross would sing all leads, even though the song Sunset is clearly a duet with Diana and Mary. All that aside, you cannot argue with success or the fact that people are still arguing the Supreme's group dynamics over 47 years after Florence left the group or 45 years after Diana left to launch her solo career. What we will NEVER fully know are all the details that went on in the group that have been lost to time or just stayed between the group members. And lastly, can we just stop pretending that Diana Ross alone had a diva behavior? It's pretty safe to say that if you dug around long enough you could find individuals who could tell less than flattering stories about ALL Motown's major artists and not just Diana Ross. Janis Gaye's new book on Marvin is an eye opener. I'm sure all the former Vandellas could tell unflattering storys about Martha Reeves, or the Marvalettes about their lead singers. Or the remaining Temps could share unflattering stories about their group members. Heck, I've read that at the end members of the Four Tops weren't even speaking to each other. I don't understand why so called fans of these artists and Motown feel the need to debase any of the singers or groups, seriously, what's the point?
    Which is why I don't trip anymore when people bring all this stuff about Diana because a lot of the Motown acts had different lives off camera. It was like who wasn't feuding at the time, who wasn't doing someone else dirty, etc.

    I think why you never see anyone bringing up dirt here on Marvin or the Four Tops or Stevie or whatever is because they're good with what they brought to the table as professionals. They can separate the person from the music. I do the same with the Supremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossHolloway View Post
    I just think that some people have absolutely NOTHING going on in their personal lives or their lives are so empty that they keep on rehashing meaningless details of things that happened over 50 years ago and can't seem to move on. It's so sad really, I feel sorry for them.
    Preach RossHolloway Preach. There are three in this here forum that are obsess with Diane Ross and they obsession isnt real healthy imo. Just look over these past 3 pages and see who posted the most and youll see disturbed individuals. Dianes #1 hater posted 30 times in this here thread. A darn shame smh.

    Roberta

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossHolloway View Post
    I just think that some people have absolutely NOTHING going on in their personal lives or their lives are so empty that they keep on rehashing meaningless details of things that happened over 50 years ago and can't seem to move on. It's so sad really, I feel sorry for them.
    Yes Indeed! Apparently someone's mother never taught "If you can't say something nice ..."

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    I have to add that I think much of the content posted on this site is disgraceful and demeaning for grown men to be writing [[never comes from a woman, does it?) as well as insulting to Mr. Terrana. He has repeatedly asked ... certain of us ... to withhold the slander. I'm sure there are other sites where one can spill their misogynisitic perseverating to their hearts' content. Why not respect the wishes of the moderator of this forum and take it there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertZ View Post
    I have to add that I think much of the content posted on this site is disgraceful and demeaning for grown men to be writing [[never comes from a woman, does it?) as well as insulting to Mr. Terrana. He has repeatedly asked ... certain of us ... to withhold the slander. I'm sure there are other sites where one can spill their misogynisitic perseverating to their hearts' content. Why not respect the wishes of the moderator of this forum and take it there?
    Its beyond disgusting RobertZ but the main culprit gets away with it time and time and time again smh.

    Roberta

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    Here's an interesting take on it; watch at 11:00.


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    You guys might not like what I'm about to say, but I have to agree with Mr. Holloway.Sometimes, regarding certain inane subjects regarding the Supremes, it just gets tiresome. And I know that trouble is lurking. The entire subject is no longer moot and I wish threads didn't keep cropping up like this. I need to remind everyone that it was I that picked up Jean Terrell from her hotel to bring her to the Donovan Building when she was selected to replace Diana Ross. After that it became a dead issue in my opinion, all do respect to all the fine singers that would come along to be Supremes. But it was no longer the Supremes, but just a very good singing group. And yes, they all qualify as back-up singers. They are just that good. Now leave all the criticizing be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    You guys might not like what I'm about to say, but I have to agree with Mr. Holloway.Sometimes, regarding certain inane subjects regarding the Supremes, it just gets tiresome. And I know that trouble is lurking. The entire subject is no longer moot and I wish threads didn't keep cropping up like this. I need to remind everyone that it was I that picked up Jean Terrell from her hotel to bring her to the Donovan Building when she was selected to replace Diana Ross. After that it became a dead issue in my opinion, all do respect to all the fine singers that would come along to be Supremes. But it was no longer the Supremes, but just a very good singing group. And yes, they all qualify as back-up singers. They are just that good. Now leave all the criticizing be.
    Thank you Ralph!

    It's demoralizing to the forum to watch the same posters drive around their respective blocks expecting to see new houses built there. I get that most fans take a stance in the Supremes wars to one side or another thanks to a couple of books written for shock value/maximum sales rather than historical perspective. Add in certain bits of hearsay quoted [[sometimes directly) to them by other artists and the myth somehow hardens to fact that people aren't willing to change their minds on. I'd love to contribute more to the Supremes threads but even the most benign comment seems to get under the wrong persons skin or it gets used like I am in one sides camp and not the other at times which proves frustrating. I know I find myself discouraged at times from even starting threads on other artists since it seems the girls still rule the multiple threads when I sign on. At the end of the day, even if The Supremes were somehow proven to be the cattiest bunch of backstabbing women to ever walk the earth, to appreciate that over the music and the many Motowners behind the scenes who helped it reach the masses is beyond sad. The music is supposed to be what we come here to celebrate in this forum not the catfights and who was wronged when. Fifty years has passed for a majority of it. If the original parties have come to peace with it, I don't see why the fans can't....

    Again, my thanks for providing a voice of reason and a forum for us that when the false eyelashes and wigs aren't flying over which Supreme did what to whom, is very enjoyable and informative.

    Respectfully,
    Glen
    Last edited by Glenpwood; 05-27-2015 at 04:09 PM.

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    its real real fascinating how a handful of fans ruin every Supremes thread in this here forum by taking what "allegedly' happen 50 or 40 or 30 years ago so personally. i mean its all bassed on favoritism and hearsay and means nothing in the grand scheme of this precious gift of life. Im real glad and gratful that Ralph stepped in to ask this to stop. it spoils an otherwise real enjoyable forum.

    Roberta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    its real real fascinating how a handful of fans ruin every Supremes thread in this here forum by taking what "allegedly' happen 50 or 40 or 30 years ago so personally. i mean its all bassed on favoritism and hearsay and means nothing in the grand scheme of this precious gift of life. Im real glad and gratful that Ralph stepped in to ask this to stop. it spoils an otherwise real enjoyable forum.

    Roberta
    And I third that motion. Even the Ike Turner Unsung thread was polluted by the same individual, again bringing up his reason for living.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertZ View Post
    And I third that motion. Even the Ike Turner Unsung thread was polluted by the same individual, again bringing up his reason for living.
    He brought up Diane Ross in the Ike Turner thread? smh just smh.

    Roberta

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    He brought up Diane Ross in the Ike Turner thread? smh just smh.

    Roberta
    That, ma'am, he did!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    He brought up Diane Ross in the Ike Turner thread? smh just smh.

    Roberta
    I checked the Ike Turner thread and the only reference to Diana was made by Marv. Naturally, it was negative and off the topic. His point was to say that just as Ike was regarded to many as an asshole, so was Diana.

    As for this thread, I started it because there was a nice article acknowledging and complimented the Supremes as a group giving recording examples of them sharing lead and switching leads and singing in harmony. I liked the article and agreed. I wish the group performed more as a group and less as a lead with a background singer. But to make that point, I did not have to bash any individual Supreme. I know better as I can see what happens when Marv starts bashing. Everyone starts bashing back and Ralph deletes the thread. And it makes no sense to complain. The last time someone complained, Ralph said that Marv has a right to promote his favorite artist. He does have that right. But does he have to bash another member of the group to do it? That is where the trouble begins. Sadly most of us see it. Other don’t .
    FROM THE IKE TURNER THREAD
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    I think he [[Ike Turner) WAS an asshole. Many people who he worked with and around would testify to that. ….
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I know what you mean. It is the exact same case as with Diana Ross!
    Back to the topic of this thread. Before the Supremes, I was a fan of the McGuire Sisters. I loved their harmony and how Phyllis sang lead midway in most of the songs and then reverted back to harmony. I would have liked to have heard that more with the Supremes and agree with the article. But I still am an avid Supreme fan, liked all the Supremes, all their songs and saw and enjoyed each configuration.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    I checked the Ike Turner thread and the only reference to Diana was made by Marv. Naturally, it was negative and off the topic. His point was to say that just as Ike was regarded to many as an asshole, so was Diana.

    As for this thread, I started it because there was a nice article acknowledging and complimented the Supremes as a group giving recording examples of them sharing lead and switching leads and singing in harmony. I liked the article and agreed. I wish the group performed more as a group and less as a lead with a background singer. But to make that point, I did not have to bash any individual Supreme. I know better as I can see what happens when Marv starts bashing. Everyone starts bashing back and Ralph deletes the thread. And it makes no sense to complain. The last time someone complained, Ralph said that Marv has a right to promote his favorite artist. He does have that right. But does he have to bash another member of the group to do it? That is where the trouble begins. Sadly most of us see it. Other don’t .
    FROM THE IKE TURNER THREAD



    Back to the topic of this thread. Before the Supremes, I was a fan of the McGuire Sisters. I loved their harmony and how Phyllis sang lead midway in most of the songs and then reverted back to harmony. I would have liked to have heard that more with the Supremes and agree with the article. But I still am an avid Supreme fan, liked all the Supremes, all their songs and saw and enjoyed each configuration.
    It is indeed a good article and I thank you for posting it. I have a similar feeling about the group Labelle - I always wished their LPs featured more "swapped leads", such as "Can I Speak ..." because each of the 3 ladies have such distinct voices as well as harmonizing like the bejeezuz. But what's past is past, I guess. BTW, in the future I will just ignore that poster entirely. I think it best.

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    Thank heavens this thread is calming down. I have deliberately avoided it due the venom that has been spitted out. Why do we have to be so negative? This forum is for Motown lovers and if we cannot discuss topics in a mature and respectable way then there is little point in continuing. Let us spread love not hate. We are all entitled to our opinions but some people on here are beyond unpleasant with their narrow minded and downright repulsive comments. Thank goodness the vast majority of us are above that. I love this forum and most of the people on it. There are some very special and like minded people on here. Spread the love!!! Thank you.

  41. #141
    supremester Guest
    I never saw The 70's groupings - they never came near Portland, except once played a homecoming dance in Eugene in 1970, but I was 14 and not allowed to travel alone. What grouping was your fave? If you could see one again, which would it be?

    I've seen Scherrie & Lynda live and they are great. Would ove to have seen Jean & Susaye as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertZ View Post
    It is indeed a good article and I thank you for posting it. I have a similar feeling about the group Labelle - I always wished their LPs featured more "swapped leads", such as "Can I Speak ..." because each of the 3 ladies have such distinct voices as well as harmonizing like the bejeezuz. But what's past is past, I guess. BTW, in the future I will just ignore that poster entirely. I think it best.

  42. #142
    supremester Guest
    Well shake it on baby, now: I just learned he's doing it on Black-ish sites and tracee Ellis Ross news comments


    .........
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    He brought up Diane Ross in the Ike Turner thread? smh just smh.

    Roberta

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    I never saw The 70's groupings - they never came near Portland, except once played a homecoming dance in Eugene in 1970, but I was 14 and not allowed to travel alone. What grouping was your fave? If you could see one again, which would it be?

    I've seen Scherrie & Lynda live and they are great. Would ove to have seen Jean & Susaye as well.
    I only saw live JMC [[at the Americana Hotel in NYC) and they were wonderful - I loved Jean and it was she that kept my interest in the group after Diana left. DMC would have been great to see; DMF was just a tad before my time. After Jean and Cindy were gone, to me they were no longer [[HERE WE GO!) "The Supremes"; talented ladies singing [[or syncing) good new songs on TV, but for me not The Supremes I knew and loved. So the show you missed was JMC, correct?

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    I know a lot of people think that Florence was an overrated singer but Mary, Diana, Marvin, Martha, and so many more have all talked about what a great voice Florence had.

    After Florence left there was just something missing. Then Diana left and it was completely gone. I loved the Jean, Mary, Cindy line-up but I just can't get into them except for the first album and their main hits. Like a few others said, I thought the later Supremes were great and talented ladies but Mary should have just quit when Jean did.

    There was no line-up that could ever match the magic of Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    Well shake it on baby, now: I just learned he's doing it on Black-ish sites and tracee Ellis Ross news comments


    .........
    Omg if what your saying is true hes more disturbed than I thought and need help. Making hateful comments on Dianes kids sites is real real low even for him.. Smh just smh.

    Roberta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Omg if what your saying is true hes more disturbed than I thought and need help. Making hateful comments on Dianes kids sites is real real low even for him.. Smh just smh.

    Roberta
    Hey Ms. Roberta - yes, it's "borderline" stalking if this is the case, and sad and scary. You be well, ma'am!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertZ View Post
    Hey Ms. Roberta - yes, it's "borderline" stalking if this is the case, and sad and scary. You be well, ma'am!
    Thank you dear RobertZ and God bless you dear.

    yours, with every good wish.

    Roberta

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    Sorry I've been away for a while. big storm yesterday knocked power out. Just got it restored. Do I need to delete this thread or are we behaving?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Sorry I've been away for a while. big storm yesterday knocked power out. Just got it restored. Do I need to delete this thread or are we behaving?
    I think its real civil now dear Ralph. It's the Ike Turner thread that needs deleting. A usual culprit has turned it into another trash Diane Ross thread.

    hope you are well.

    Fondly,

    Roberta

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    Usual culprit, Roberta? Please....

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