The SAN REMO GOLDEN STRINGS - "Hungry For Love Anthology" CD

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-12-2015, 01:08 AM

I thought my eyes were deceiving me at first, or, perhaps it was but a dream, but I blinked twice to be sure and.... there it was....for real – THE SAN REMO GOLDEN STRINGS "Hungry For Love Anthology" CD on the Marginal label [[supposedly released in 2013.) Still can't believe it!

http://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Hung...golden+strings

**calvin** · 05-12-2015, 01:27 AM

Gary, that's a bootleg vinyl rip.

**jack020** · 05-12-2015, 01:45 AM

I got this one: sound is quite good and no clicks, etc..

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-12-2015, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by calvin

Gary, that's a bootleg vinyl rip.

That figures, Calvin. But Jack020 says there's no surface noise, and this may be the closest we ever get to owning a copy, so I'm gonna keep my order open. It'll be here later this week. Thanks for the info., though. Always great hearing from you! - Gary

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-12-2015, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by jack020

I got this one: sound is quite good and no clicks, etc..

Thanks, Buddy!

Hey, Jack, while I’ve got your attention – I got my new Grace Jones boxed set that you were telling me about. I ordered the damned Blue Ray Audio disc by mistake. Boy, was I pissed! Had to turn around and re-order the CD version Monday. I wonder how many other customers will make the same mistake? [[In Amazon, the default was set for Blue Ray Audio -- a format I had never even heard of and which is NOT compatible with a CD player. I assumed the default was automatically set for CD, like always. Go figure! The times, they are a-changin’!)

**calvin** · 05-12-2015, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

That figures, Calvin. But Jack020 says there's no surface noise, and this may be the closest we ever get to owning a copy, so I'm gonna keep my order open. It'll be here later this week. Thanks for the info., though. Always great hearing from you! - Gary

Hi Gary, also great hearing from you. Yes, I wasn't making any recommendation one way or the other, I just wanted to be sure you know what it is. I guess the "2013" date is just when someone listed this on Amazon to offer their used copy.

Reading a bit more [[see second link below), some say that they aren't "bootlegs" because Belgium didn't have strict copyright laws and they were legal when released [[today, Belgium is covered by the EU copyright laws). I don't know, but in any case they are not official releases.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/smithy..._pop_and_soul/

http://faac.us/adf/messages/178308/1...tml?1222006876

**masterblaster** · 05-12-2015, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by jack020

I got this one: sound is quite good and no clicks, etc..

Hi Jach20, do you have the complete track listings for this CD? I know it is a bootleg but I have always wanted the original album on CD and wanted to know if there are any additional tracks

**copley** · 05-12-2015, 07:05 AM

It's one of the infamous Marginal bootlegs. Had it for years and the sound quality is very good

Can often be found on eBay.

Tracklist

1 Hungry For Love
2 Downtown
3 Festival Time
4 A Child's Prayer
5 Lonely One
6 Blueberry Hill
7 I'm Satisfied
8 People
9 Old Man River
10 Joy Road
11 Everybody Loves A Lover
12 Some Things You Never Get Used To
13 I Second That Emotion
14 I'm Leaving This Old Town
15 Reach Out I'll Be There
16 Day By Day Or Never
17 It's Not Unusual
18 I Was Made To Love Her
19 Born Free
20 Up, Up And Away
21 To Sir With Love
22 Alfie
23 My Girl
24 Home Coming
25 Quanto Sei Bella [[You Are So Beautiful)
26 All Turned On
27 Still Hungry

**mysterysinger** · 05-12-2015, 01:39 PM

It's fair to say that there were some very interesting releases on Marginal and they've been around for several years. I think there is quite a sad story behind these releases, but they were ahead of their time even if, yes, they are all bootlegs. Within the Marginal catalogue there were a number of Motown releases.

If you like the San Remo Strings one, you might also like the Detroit Instrumentals CD which includes Earl Van Dyke's "That Motown Sound" and Choker Campbell's "Hits of The Sixties". Of course there are also several volumes of "Rare Tracks From Detroit" - very nice compilations. There are also CDs by Chuck Jackson, Tammi Terrell, Kim Weston, Brenda Holloway, Elgins & Monitors, Gladys Knight, Martha & Vandellas, Supremes, Eddie Holland, Barbara McNair and others.

Attachment 9437

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-12-2015, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by copley

It's one of the infamous Marginal bootlegs. Had it for years and the sound quality is very good

Can often be found on eBay.

Tracklist

1 Hungry For Love
2 Downtown
3 Festival Time
4 A Child's Prayer
5 Lonely One
6 Blueberry Hill
7 I'm Satisfied
8 People
9 Old Man River
10 Joy Road
11 Everybody Loves A Lover
12 Some Things You Never Get Used To
13 I Second That Emotion
14 I'm Leaving This Old Town
15 Reach Out I'll Be There
16 Day By Day Or Never
17 It's Not Unusual
18 I Was Made To Love Her
19 Born Free
20 Up, Up And Away
21 To Sir With Love
22 Alfie
23 My Girl
24 Home Coming
25 Quanto Sei Bella [[You Are So Beautiful)
26 All Turned On
27 Still Hungry

Sounds good, copley. That's pretty much the entirety of the "Hungry For Love" and "Swing" albums plus 3 bonus tracks.Thanks for the info.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-12-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by calvin

Hi Gary, also great hearing from you. Yes, I wasn't making any recommendation one way or the other, I just wanted to be sure you know what it is. I guess the "2013" date is just when someone listed this on Amazon.

Calvin, I've been checking Amazon [[US.) for San Remo Golden Strings Motown recordings [[even downloads, if necessary) for quite some time, and these CD copies never showed up until just now. In fact, there are more CD copies available than what I showed in the above link IF you don't mind paying $65.00 per copy. The truth is, I would much rather buy a legitimate copy from the record companies. But, if they don't care enough about releasing certain product for purchase, then I'll find it elsewhere as best I can, provided the sound quality is good. Nowadays, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between vinyl-ripped boots and legit mastertape versions. For a collector, great-sounding boots are certainly better than nothing. But you just watch -- now that I've ordered the Marginal CD, somebody will release the official mastertape version! Happens every time!!!

Also, thanks for the listing of Marginal CD's. I enjoyed that. It turns out I've actually got a few of them. Wirh an exception or two, I had no idea they were ripped from vinyl.

**jack020** · 05-13-2015, 02:12 AM

Hi Gary, sorry to hear you got the wrong version of the GJ box. I ordered the Bluray [[ I already own several Bluray Audio discs and the GJ set has 3 sound options and plays all the tracks at once for several hours) and the LP set [[ I just bought a new record player)from Amazon Italy where they were the cheapest for us Europeans [[Amazon UK is far too expensive right now with the high rate of the UK pound) What is great that both sets have vouchers in them for downloading the whole set in Hi-Rez files, so no need to buy the cds for me.
About Marginal: I believe there is a thread about all their releases on this forum.
Also see here for the releases:
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/smithy..._pop_and_soul/

.

**calvin** · 05-13-2015, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

Nowadays, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between vinyl-ripped boots and legit mastertape versions.

Gary, when someone writes that the sound quality of these Marginal releases is very good, I suppose they mean very good compared to some other bootlegs. The quality is not comparable to official releases from master tapes, nor even comparable to vinyl rips by labels like PTG. On listening, it is obvious that they are not official from Universal. Many of the recordings on these cds have subsequently seen release on Hip-O, Ace/Kent, or Spectrum, and the improvement in sound was huge. You will hear this for yourself.

Sound quality was not the point, however. People bought these when the only other way to get the recordings was to hunt down a bunch of rare vinyl records [[there may have even been some acetates included in some of the collections, I'm not sure now). Many fans heard the material for the first time on these cds, which is perhaps why some still think of them fondly. And there are albums on Marginal which have not seen official release, such as those by The San Remo Strings and Choker Campbell, which is why you have interest.

But for someone looking for Eddie Holland, for example, I see no point in buying the Marginal set today - not only is the Ace/Kent set legit, it is vastly superior!!!

I just wanted to be sure you knew what you were buying. When this stuff gets posted on Amazon - by marketplace sellers, not by Amazon - many assume that it must be an official release.

I see that someone posted a review on Amazon yesterday warning that the cd is a bootleg - perhaps a coincidence, but I guess it's probably someone who read this thread.

Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

But you just watch -- now that I've ordered the Marginal CD, somebody will release the official mastertape version! Happens every time!!!

Let's hope so, but I doubt it.

**masterblaster** · 05-13-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by calvin

But for someone looking for Eddie Holland, for example, I see no point in buying the Marginal set today - not only is the Ace/Kent set legit, it is vastly superior!!!
Let's hope so, but I doubt it.

I bought the Eddie Holland "bootleg" long before the Ace cd was released and was thrilled to be hearing many of these tracks for the first time. I agree that the later release was better quality but when no other versions are available, as in the San Remo Anthology, a bootleg is better than nothing.

Wish Marginal would release all of Jr Walkers 70s albums.

**mysterysinger** · 05-13-2015, 12:11 PM

I don't see why Spectrum couldn't do something innovative with some of this material - they did some great releases on Marvin and Kim and Kiki Dee that utilised original album artwork. Also, they did a complete series of Reggae Chartbusters which were great not to mention their Motown Chartbusters series. So why not San Remo or Choker Campbell Anthology, and Undisputed Truth and Junior Walker individual albums. That's if they're still going.

**calvin** · 05-13-2015, 12:29 PM

Mysterysinger, this is from the thread on the new Fantastic Four release:

Originally Posted by paul_nixon

The San Remo Strings were always on the stocks to have an anthology - Spectrum release but disappeared off the stock s when the anthology series and minor artist releases ceased Ric Tic material has been used on a number of compilations so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?14323-New-CD-from-Ace-The-Fantastic-Four

**gordy_hunk** · 05-13-2015, 12:36 PM

Over the years I collected all the Marginal releases that were available. I appreciate that my listening abilities are not so powerful as others - but I - generally - couldn't tell that these were taken from vinyl.

Until this week, I always had assumed that the now deceased owner of Marginal had obtained a copy of the tapes from the archives [[whether legitimately or not) and used those for the discs.

If anyone is interested in obtaining any of these Marginal CD do let me know before you go ahead and buy a copy.

**calvin** · 05-13-2015, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by gordy_hunk

Over the years I collected all the Marginal releases that were available. I appreciate that my listening abilities are not so powerful as others - but I - generally - couldn't tell that these were taken from vinyl.

Until this week, I always had assumed that the now deceased owner of Marginal had obtained a copy of the tapes from the archives [[whether legitimately or not) and used those for the discs.

If anyone is interested in obtaining any of these Marginal CD do let me know before you go ahead and buy a copy.

Gordy, you may be right, I don't know for sure that they were taken from vinyl. It has been some time since listening and I don't recall if I heard any sounds of vinyl or not. But I do hear that they sound noticeably inferior to official releases - to me they sound "muffled" and unclear, the sound is not "crisp" [[very difficult to describe with words!). I thought perhaps that he ran the music through a very aggressive noise-reduction filter to take out crackles, hiss, etc, and this made it sound that way. But I don't know.

Update: I just played the song "Alfie" from the San Remo Strings cd and I do hear some pops and crackles in that song.

**mysterysinger** · 05-13-2015, 02:30 PM

Well it seems like Spectrum is still issuing Motown stuff on compilations..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soul-Sisters...541548&sr=1-10

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Commodo...541894&sr=1-28

**Laserdk** · 05-13-2015, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

Well it seems like Spectrum is still issuing Motown stuff on compilations..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soul-Sisters...541548&sr=1-10

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Commodo...541894&sr=1-28

Spectrum is still going as remember it is just the budget reissue label arm of UK Universal.

Ivor

**TomBairdFan** · 05-14-2015, 08:15 AM

Being a huge San Remo Strings fan [[i.e. it's the music I would grab first if my house was on fire), I bought the MAR123 Marginal CD about a year ago. The sound is excellent - much better when compared to the LPs - and I was so pleased that I searched around to find another reasonably priced copy as I wanted a ''just in case'' back-up! Eventually found one, so I now have the 'heir and the spare'. Bizarrely, my second copy appears to be the original release with the crisp printed cover and track listing on the insert, plus the black and red violinists illustration on the actual CD. Little did I know until then that my original purchase seems to be a bootleg of a bootleg! It has a blurred cover [[as if it's been scanned), no track listing on the insert and only ''Marginal. The San Remo Golden Strings'' written on the disc with a bogus catalogue number [[150.9002). The audio on both is superb, although track 27 - ''Still Hungry'' - doesn't play on either disc. Maybe there are more bootlegs of bootlegs of bootlegs out there. Despite having the Marginal CDs, if Spectrum ever issued a San Remo Strings CD, I would buy that one too without any hesitation. I just love my swirling strings!

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-17-2015, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by TomBairdFan

Being a huge San Remo Strings fan [[i.e. it's the music I would grab first if my house was on fire), I bought the MAR123 Marginal CD about a year ago. The sound is excellent - much better when compared to the LPs - and I was so pleased that I searched around to find another reasonably priced copy as I wanted a ''just in case'' back-up! Eventually found one, so I now have the 'heir and the spare'. Bizarrely, my second copy appears to be the original release with the crisp printed cover and track listing on the insert, plus the black and red violinists illustration on the actual CD. Little did I know until then that my original purchase seems to be a bootleg of a bootleg! It has a blurred cover [[as if it's been scanned), no track listing on the insert and only ''Marginal. The San Remo Golden Strings'' written on the disc with a bogus catalogue number [[150.9002). The audio on both is superb, although track 27 - ''Still Hungry'' - doesn't play on either disc. Maybe there are more bootlegs of bootlegs of bootlegs out there. Despite having the Marginal CDs, if Spectrum ever issued a San Remo Strings CD, I would buy that one too without any hesitation. I just love my swirling strings!

TomBairdFan, my copy of the San Remo Golden Strings CD arrived yesterday. The sound quality is excellent. In fact, it sounds mastertape-worthy to me. In addition, all 27 tracks play fine with no problem. Amazon [[U.S.) still has one copy left for $65 if you're willing to shell out the big bucks for an extra back-up copy! [[I think I paid $35 for mine -- and it's worth every penny.)

For the benefit of those who may not be familiar with The San Remo Golden Strings, it was a combination of The Funk Brothers and members of the Detroit Symphony -- just like all of the other Motown recordings, except this is all instrumental with no vocals. This was the real deal -- not just another easy-listening 101 Strings thing. A lot of the tracks are super-soulful ,i.e., my all-time favorite, "I'm Satisfied".

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-17-2015, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by calvin

Gary, when someone writes that the sound quality of these Marginal releases is very good, I suppose they mean very good compared to some other bootlegs. The quality is not comparable to official releases from master tapes, nor even comparable to vinyl rips by labels like PTG. On listening, it is obvious that they are not official from Universal. Many of the recordings on these cds have subsequently seen release on Hip-O, Ace/Kent, or Spectrum, and the improvement in sound was huge. You will hear this for yourself.

Sound quality was not the point, however. People bought these when the only other way to get the recordings was to hunt down a bunch of rare vinyl records [[there may have even been some acetates included in some of the collections, I'm not sure now). Many fans heard the material for the first time on these cds, which is perhaps why some still think of them fondly. And there are albums on Marginal which have not seen official release, such as those by The San Remo Strings and Choker Campbell, which is why you have interest.

But for someone looking for Eddie Holland, for example, I see no point in buying the Marginal set today - not only is the Ace/Kent set legit, it is vastly superior!!!

I just wanted to be sure you knew what you were buying. When this stuff gets posted on Amazon - by marketplace sellers, not by Amazon - many assume that it must be an official release.

I see that someone posted a review on Amazon yesterday warning that the cd is a bootleg - perhaps a coincidence, but I guess it's probably someone who read this thread.

Let's hope so, but I doubt it.

Calvin, I got lucky! My copy of The San Remo Golden Strings CD isn't just "better compared to other boots". This sucker is mastertape quality from beginning to end! I love it!

**ron** · 05-17-2015, 08:30 AM

I purchased my copy copy from a music and book store store in Ostend [[a port and seaside resort on the Belgian coast for the benefit of non-Europeans) whilst on a Christmas jolly from work about 5 years ago. It cost me the equivalent of £6/US$9 at the time. I came home WELL happy.

Interestingly, I bought mine in the country in which it was allegedly 'legally' issued at the time although by the time I had bought my copy, Belgium had clearly moved into line with the rest of Europe over copyright laws.

We can question over and over whether this release is a bootleg or not, or even whether it is right to purchase a copy or not. What is clear - to me at least - is that there exists a real demand for The San Remo Golden Strings to be given a remastered release. I for one will always purchase a copy of any new release.

As a matter of interest, the stereo version of Blueberry Hill on the Marginal Anthology release is different to that on the mono Hungry for Love LP. Does anybody know if there are any other San Remo alternates? [[Sorry folks, my favourite subject!)

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-17-2015, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by ron

I purchased my copy copy from a music and book store store in Ostend [[a port and seaside resort on the Belgian coast for the benefit of non-Europeans) whilst on a Christmas jolly from work about 5 years ago. It cost me the equivalent of £6/US$9 at the time. I came home WELL happy.

Interestingly, I bought mine in the country in which it was allegedly 'legally' issued at the time although by the time I had bought my copy, Belgium had clearly moved into line with the rest of Europe over copyright laws.

We can question over and over whether this release is a bootleg or not, or even whether it is right to purchase a copy or not. What is clear - to me at least - is that there exists a real demand for The San Remo Golden Strings to be given a remastered release. I for one will always purchase a copy of any new release.

As a matter of interest, the stereo version of Blueberry Hill on the Marginal Anthology release is different to that on the mono Hungry for Love LP. Does anybody know if there are any other San Remo alternates? [[Sorry folks, my favourite subject!)

Ron, I don’t remember the differences between the Mono and Stereo versions of the "Hungry For Love" LP [[I had both versions back when I was still collecting vinyl), but one song that I DO notice a difference on is my favorite track, "I’m Satisfied". In the Mono version, there is a guitar solo at the 1:16 time-mark that is a major hook in this record. In the Stereo version [[at 1:20), however, those guitar notes are half-buried in the mix. It bugs me every time I hear the Stereo version, which, unfortunately, is the version that I now have on CD. It’s a small complaint, though, since the CD quality sounds so darned good.

Here’s a sample of the Mono version. Check out the guitar lick at 1:16. It’s only a few notes, but it’s powerful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPyoovJrB4M

And now compare it with the inferior Stereo version where that hot guitar passage is nearly buried in the mix. [[For whatever reason, the timing is a few seconds different on this video. The half-buried guitar lick occurs at 1:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5du-PECbuU

The Mono version gets my vote all around for better guitar, bass, horns, handclaps, and evenly-distributed strings.

**kenneth** · 05-17-2015, 03:55 PM

I remember how thrilled I was to find the Marginal releases of "Rare Tracks from Detroit." I think there were 7 volumes. It was the very first time I heard many of the singles included, and even my first time hearing some of the singers such as Hattie Littles, LaBrenda Ben, Henry Lumpkin, and others. They also had an Eddie Holland release years before the legit Ace version. I'm sorry, I don't really care if it's a bootleg or not. If it's music you can't get anywhere else, I'm buying it.

**mysterysinger** · 05-17-2015, 05:54 PM

And not forgetting of course......
Attachment 9443

**ron** · 05-17-2015, 07:49 PM

[QUOTE=Philles/Motown Gary;285096]Ron, I don’t remember the differences between the Mono and Stereo versions of the "Hungry For Love" LP [[I had both versions back when I was still collecting vinyl)

The mono version of Blueberry Hill has a brass introduction after the initial drumroll, whereas the stereo has strings following the drumroll; also the brass is significantly more prominent on the mono version.

Ooops, yet again I can use my ever increasing age as an excuse for totally forgetting about the two versions of 'I'm satisfied', both of which I have. Interestingly, I understand that both versions in mono have been found on 7" singles carrying the Ric Tic label. Whether or not both versions were released legitimately I cannot say. However I clearly remember finding 'Festival Time' on Ric Tic in a record store in Birmingham UK early 1969, the labels being slightly differing shades. The thought that one might be a bootleg never entered my head, but being unsure which one to buy I finished up buying neither. Silly young me. Mind you I was just 15 at the time. Shortly after this, a letter appeared in the UK mag 'Blues & Soul' on this very issue, asking the question if bootleg Ric Tic singles were starting to appear in the UK. I never did see an answer, not that I remember anyway....

Unless other San Remo recordings exist in the vaults, I'm fairly certain that the above are the only alternates. Having been into San Remo from such a young age, I'd really love to be proved wrong. It would make me VERY happy to know that other tracks do exist, somewhere...

A couple of years ago, I promised to be extremely well behaved AND do as I was told, if someone was to put out an Eddie Holland release. A while later, Ace kindly obliged. If I promise to do the same again, could Ace similarly oblige with one by San Remo? Please? I'd find it very hard to behave for too long, but I'd give it my very best shot...

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-17-2015, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

I'm sorry, I don't really care if it's a bootleg or not. If it's music you can't get anywhere else, I'm buying it.

Right on, Kenny!!! I'm right behind ya! - Gary

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-18-2015, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by ron

Unless other San Remo recordings exist in the vaults, I'm fairly certain that the above are the only alternates. Having been into San Remo from such a young age, I'd really love to be proved wrong. It would make me VERY happy to know that other tracks do exist, somewhere...

A couple of years ago, I promised to be extremely well behaved AND do as I was told, if someone was to put out an Eddie Holland release. A while later, Ace kindly obliged. If I promise to do the same again, could Ace similarly oblige with one by San Remo? Please? I'd find it very hard to behave for too long, but I'd give it my very best shot...

Ron, are you familiar with the CD series "A Cellarful Of Motown"? There are four excellent volumes [[2-disc sets each) of previously-unreleased Motown recordings. Volume 3 contains The San Remo Golden Strings’ unreleased version of "Get Ready" [[Disc 1/Track 3). Other than that, this is the only previously-unreleased San Remo Golden Strings recording that I know of. There may be plenty more in the vaults, though. Only time will tell! Here’s the link for "Cellarful Of Motown [[Vol. 3)":

http://www.amazon.com/Cellarfull-Mot...+of+motown+cds

BTW, Ron, behaving yourself is a drag, I know, but, hey, it’s worth a shot. If it worked before, try wishing for a previously-unreleased CD of the complete Blinky Williams Motown recordings! - Gary

**ron** · 05-18-2015, 06:27 AM

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, Gary.

Yes I am aware of the 'Cellarful of Motown' series. Without doubt - in my opinion - the best series of Motown releases EVER. Some might think this statement to be slightly over the top but it brought to our attention tracks that might never have seen the light of day otherwise. If any readers of this forum haven't got all four volumes, I only have one question to ask - why not? You don't know what you're missing out on. If only we could have Volume 5 [[sigh.......)

I will behave myself if I have to, as long as I get my San Remo release first. I would then continue to behave myself so others may get their wishes too. I'm considerate that way.

**kenneth** · 05-18-2015, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

And not forgetting of course......
Attachment 9443

Well, here's another example of Soulful Detroit making me buy things that I never knew existed before but now I simply must have! How is the quality on these releases, if you know? Thanks so much.

**ron** · 05-18-2015, 01:07 PM

I find them very acceptable. But then you have to ask yourself, where else are you going to get a lot of those tracks?

**kenneth** · 05-18-2015, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ron

I find them very acceptable. But then you have to ask yourself, where else are you going to get a lot of those tracks?

Absolutely. I'll be ordering these. Thanks for the information.

**mysterysinger** · 05-19-2015, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

Absolutely. I'll be ordering these. Thanks for the information.

Glad to be of service

**Amithesameboy** · 05-19-2015, 04:37 PM

Everything Marginal ever put out was a bootleg. No ifs or buts. Im surprised so many people happily talk on here about buying them when there are probably musicians on the forum who played on these records. I wonder what they think ?

**mysterysinger** · 05-19-2015, 04:56 PM

What benefit does an artist receive from their recordings not being made available on CD?

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from non-release of in-demand recordings on CD or download? - Unlikely.
Would I be able to buy a CD or download album of non-released recordings? - Absolutely not.

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from a bootleg release?- Unlikely
Would I buy a bootleg CD release? - Absolutely.

Would I buy a legit release of the same title even if I owned a bootleg copy? - Absolutely.

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from an out of copyright recording issued on CD or download? - Unlikely?
Would I buy an out of copyright recording issued on CD? - Absolutely.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 05-19-2015, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

What benefit does an artist receive from their recordings not being made available on CD?

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from non-release of in-demand recordings on CD or download? - Unlikely.
Would I be able to buy a CD or download album of non-released recordings? - Absolutely not.

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from a bootleg release?- Unlikely
Would I buy a bootleg CD release? - Absolutely.

Would I buy a legit release of the same title even if I owned a bootleg copy? - Absolutely.

Would an artist or musician receive royalties from an out of copyright recording issued on CD or download? - Unlikely?
Would I buy an out of copyright recording issued on CD? - Absolutely.

I couldn't have said it better, mysterysinger.

**calvin** · 05-19-2015, 08:05 PM

Reading the posts above, it seems that some misunderstood my warning [[that it's a bootleg) as a condemnation. Just to be clear, I'm neither condemning nor condoning the purchase of these, I just wanted to inform Gary. When someone buys a bootleg thinking that it's "official", there's a good chance that the buyer will be disappointed. That also applies to some public domain releases, which are totally legal.

Look at some of the reviews on Amazon of "Ric-Tic Relics" - "awful", "sound[s] gloomy and cheap", "poorly mastered", etc. There are positive reviews by people who knew they were buying a bootleg and were happy to get it. Others apparently didn't know and felt ripped off. They had every right to demand a refund but they didn't know that, either.

Also, reading the previous posts, I'm surprised at the praise for the sound quality of a Marginal release. [[Though San Remo Strings is admittedly one of the better ones.)

Gary, I'm glad that you're so happy with your purchase. But recall that a few months ago Universal Japan released G.C. Cameron's 1976 self-titled LP on cd as a vinyl rip. It was criticized in this forum, including by you and me. You wrote, "I think I'll refrain from the purchase of any more Universal Japan reissues." We may disagree on this, but I think the GC Cameron cd sounds better than the Marginal cds I've heard. But I was very disappointed with that cd because I expected more from Universal - they have the masters, so why not use them?

And that was my point - when someone knowingly buys a bootleg, they judge the quality by different standards than an official release. Suppose Universal released "San Remo Strings" tomorrow and it sounded *exactly* like this Marginal release. Would people still write that the sound quality is "superb", or "so darned good"? I think there would be complaints. [[But no worries, if they ever do release it, it will sound better!)

Of course I understand that having an inferior-sounding recording can be better than not having the recording at all. I feel the same way in some cases.

What is this talk about buying "backup" copies? Somebody is just printing up cd-r's at home - pirate copies of a bootleg - and selling them over Amazon at high prices! Why not just make a lossless rip or copy of your own cd!?! Or not buy it at all - since it's a bootleg anyway, one could just try to get a copy from someone who already has it. [[I'm not advocating doing this, but it isn't worse than knowingly buying a bootleg.)

**mysterysinger** · 05-20-2015, 12:32 PM

All points of view are valid, including [[especially) ones that take account of the musician's point of view. Clearly one would hope that royalties are paid fairly to the artists for their contribution and the best chance of that would be through the purchase of legitimate releases from the record companies. The problem is when that isn't an option but there's still a demand for the music on CD. If a bootleg is available that can be a suitable interim measure in the hope that a legit release will come along later. Generally speaking, that would provide the purchaser with an original recording from whatever source but folks do need to know that quality may not always be the best.

To my way of thinking, for Universal Japan to put out CDs that are vinyl rips when there should be master recordings available is unforgivable [[unless, of course they clearly ensure that folks know what they're actually buying). These CDs are not cheap.

There is another class of recording, where the artists [[e.g. original group members or later incarnations) re-record their earlier hits and put them out. Many show they are re-recordings but sometimes it isn't always obvious. Should we condone or condemn that as a practice?

**calvin** · 05-21-2015, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

To my way of thinking, for Universal Japan to put out CDs that are vinyl rips when there should be master recordings available is unforgivable [[unless, of course they clearly ensure that folks know what they're actually buying). These CDs are not cheap.

I agree. Of course I'm not against vinyl rips per se, as this is the only possibility for many older recordings, but Universal presumably has the masters for that LP and Univeral Japan should have used them. They didn't care enough to give us something better, and it damaged my trust in that label. I won't boycott them, but I will try to get more information and be more selective about future purchases.

Still, I think the GC Cameron cd sounds better than the Motown stuff from Marginal that I've heard.

Originally Posted by mysterysinger

There is another class of recording, where the artists [[e.g. original group members or later incarnations) re-record their earlier hits and put them out. Many show they are re-recordings but sometimes it isn't always obvious. Should we condone or condemn that as a practice?

If it's up front and clear, that's fine. If they're looking to pick up some extra sales by misleading customers, I'd say condemn.