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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I really think that is a male/female bias. When the female is directive and organized like Otis is, she's a bitch. With Otis, he's a strong, organized man. The other issue is that Otis has been successful at managing to keep the group going and you can't argue with success. He is recognized by the public for that. Some fans feelin differently but not the public. And in addition, the Supremes just didn't have anyone that was able to pull a group together and keep it together and modestly successful after about 1972. The Temptations did.

    Thanks once again for your sly passive-aggressive slam against Mary Wilson. Anyway, now back to the Temptations!

  2. #52
    More unfortunate health news. In late 1995, Ray Davis was diagnosed with throat cancer and had to leave the group. His replacement was Harry McGilberry another Philadelphia native. The Temptations from (1995–1997):

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    Last edited by marv2; 02-22-2015 at 01:36 AM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    I think Ricky Owens caught a bad break having to replace Eddie so soon after "just My Imagination" had taken off. the fact that audiences were so unforgiving of him blowing the lyrics, just further proves how classic that song is. Those pics must be from private show or a rehearsal since Otis stated he was present for both of his shows.
    I think you are right ,but someone did not have the patience for him to get it together. I know it must have been embarrassing for Ricky Owens, as well as his friends like The Vibrations. He was their lead singer and a star in that group, but could not last even a few shows as a Temptation.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Well Brad. I believe that "revolving door" comment as well as those like "They had simply sequined out......" Came from folks that should have been supporting Mary and the Supremes rather than setting them adrift until the right moment came to kill off the group! They were no less talented and attractive in 1977 than they were in 1967.
    Just think. We all know how good Mary Wilson, Susaye Greene and Scherrie Payne sing today. Can you imagine if they never broke up and were allowed to continue in all these 37 years since? How much more great music and performances we could have enjoyed!
    i have also wondered about MSS staying together. I really liked the last album and wished the dynamics were there to keep things going, but I will stop there! God knows the talent was there.

  5. #55
    Didn't the Madison Square Garden show push Mary over the edge so to speak? Plus the Temptations had more members to keep it going.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Didn't the Madison Square Garden show push Mary over the edge so to speak? Plus the Temptations had more members to keep it going.
    I think it pushed Pedro Ferrer to push Mary harder to leave the group. We told them not to do that show and I believe had some legitimate reasons why they did not belong on that type of show. It was like having James Brown do a set for a hardcore C&W crowd.

  7. #57
    In 1997, Ali-Ollie Woodson left, was fired, resigned or disappeared from the group. I say it that way because they never give an official reason why the Tempts would replace a great singer like Ali. His abilities had not diminished as I have seen and heard Ali many times after he left the Temptations. In any case, he is replaced by Terry Weeks and the Temptation grouping with the last major hit "Stay" is formed. The Temptation from (1997–1998):

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  8. #58
    The next change in the Temptations saw Theo Peoples (another excellent singer and genuinely nice guy) leaving to join another legendary Motown group..........The Four Tops! In steps Barrington "Bo" Henderson of Washington, PA to replace him. The Temptations from (1998–2003):

    Name:  Temptations-bo barrington henderson.jpg
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  9. #59
    Are you starting to see a pattern now? Some of these groupings only lasted a year or so.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Stu, he, Dennis got his spot back for one year and one album in 1987. The only single from that period that I recall is :

    I love this video.
    If Billy Dee Williams told me Not to ever sing this song; I wouldn't sing it.

    edafan

  11. #61
    [QUOTE=marv2;272844]Are you starting to see a pattern now? Some of these groupings only lasted a year or so.[/QUOT

    Marv great job on the thread; all the pics too! Interesting revisiting the history of the group.

  12. #62
    [QUOTE=detmotownguy;272856]
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Are you starting to see a pattern now? Some of these groupings only lasted a year or so.[/QUOT

    Marv great job on the thread; all the pics too! Interesting revisiting the history of the group.
    Thank you Detmotownguy. The Temptations were one of Motown's most successful acts and they hardly ever get discussed here on the Motown Forum. Stay tuned. We're not done yet !

  13. #63
    This is a great thread Marv. I am enjoying it. It would be nice to see a similar thread on the Supremes, but I can understand your reluctance.

    Theo left the Tempts to fill Levi's shoes , which is sort of impossible, but he did a great , great job. Do you know why he left , or was forced to leave, that group?

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    This is a great thread Marv. I am enjoying it. It would be nice to see a similar thread on the Supremes, but I can understand your reluctance.

    Theo left the Tempts to fill Levi's shoes , which is sort of impossible, but he did a great , great job. Do you know why he left , or was forced to leave, that group?
    You know as well as I do, that if I were to do one on the Supremes (I would have to tell the truth throughout...), that some people here would go mental, biserk about certain things. It would cause undue and un-needed stress for Ralph and some of the more excitable members could wind up getting banned. So no I will not do that.

    Also, Theo Peoples joined the Four Tops while Levi was still performing with the group. The actual fourth spot he filled was that of Lawrence Peyton. I don't know why he left the Tempts but based on the pattern I've seen with that group, he was likely canned!

  15. #65
    As I said, I can understand your reluctance, but it would make a nice read just as this thread is a nice read of the Tempts.

    I forgot that Theo's first spot in the 4 Tops was as Payton's replacement. Theo probably left the Tempts to be with a more stable group. But then look what happened to him with the Tops. Do you know why he left the Tops?

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    As I said, I can understand your reluctance, but it would make a nice read just as this thread is a nice read of the Tempts.

    I forgot that Theo's first spot in the 4 Tops was as Payton's replacement. Theo probably left the Tempts to be with a more stable group. But then look what happened to him with the Tops. Do you know why he left the Tops?
    He had a disagreement with Duke is all I heard.

  17. #67
    This could have been a good thread. It is obvious that it was created for the purpose of taking a dig at Otis.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by skooldem1 View Post
    This could have been a good thread. It is obvious that it was created for the purpose of taking a dig at Otis.
    I think it is a great thread. I also know that you have it completely wrong because I started this thread and digging at Otis was not even on my mind.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post

    Why do think there were so many individual Temptation members?
    This was your "question".

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Answer..Otis?
    This was an answer given to your question.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You've got the right answer or at least the one common denominator in all of this drama! Pssst, but don't say that too loud, he has his fans too. LOL!!!
    This answer by you revealed your intention.

  22. #72
    It seems to me that Otis is a very insecure man and I'm not a very big fan of his. He was surrounded by all these talented men and he seemed to have problem with all of them. Jealous much? I hate it when people say he is like Mary Wilson but Mary, unlike Otis, is a talented singer and has an amazing stage presence (like Diana and Florence). She should have gone solo earlier than she did, she did not need a group. Otis on the other hand needs the Temptations to lean on.

  23. #73
    Otis is the heart and soul of the Temptations. The only Temptation to be in the group from the beginning to now, through every lineup. He has kept the legacy alive.

  24. #74
    I would have to say that while Otis has faced criticism from various perspectives through the years, he was the logical person who stepped up on many occasions to deal with the many issues which arose threatening the continuation and legacy of one of Motown's premier acts. Perhaps the fact that he was not a lead singer seeking individual adulation kept him focused on the interests of the group and not the prospect of his personal advancement. Issues like individual egos, drug and alcohol problems, lack of discipline by some group members throughout the years, etc. necessitated someone to keep those things in check internally to prevent the disintegration of the group like happened to so many other ensembles through the years, as we all know the stories of many of them....So while I'm sure that Otis made some questionable decisions through the years, at least he was there to make the tough decisions that few others were capable of or unwilling to do...

  25. #75
    Crystaledwards Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You know as well as I do, that if I were to do one on the Supremes (I would have to tell the truth throughout...), that some people here would go mental, biserk about certain things. It would cause undue and un-needed stress for Ralph and some of the more excitable members could wind up getting banned. So no I will not do that.
    Ce qu'une charge de horseshit. LOL

    Your truth about the Supremes Marvin, would never get passed the most inane fact-checker and is highly unlikely to cause any Supremes fan to spiral out of control. However your loyalty to Ralph and the other individuals here is both lofty and chivalrous.

    This thread is pleasantly entertaining.

    CE

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Crystaledwards View Post
    Ce qu'une charge de horseshit. LOL

    Your truth about the Supremes Marvin, would never get passed the most inane fact-checker and is highly unlikely to cause any Supremes fan to spiral out of control. However your loyalty to Ralph and the other individuals here is both lofty and chivalrous.

    This thread is pleasantly entertaining.

    CE
    You are exactly the type of person I was trying to protect. You couldn't handle it. All you seem to be able to handle is little lifeless jabs and snarks at me. So just close your eyes because I'm not telling, so don't worry.......

  27. #77
    Crystaledwards Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You are exactly the type of person I was trying to protect. You couldn't handle it. All you seem to be able to handle is little lifeless jabs and snarks at me. So just close your eyes because I'm not telling, so don't worry.......
    The last person I need protection from is you sweet-cheeks. There is nothing you can throw my way that I cannot handle. LOL

    Perhaps you should kiss and tell, you may find it cathartic.

    You and I have some unfinished business to put to bed so to speak Marvin. I will be in East Patchogue this coming May and would love to take you to lunch. I can make it convenient for you by meeting you in Oyster Bay, Bayville or Huntington. My treat, your choice of eatery. Kindly send me a private message if you feel so inclined.

    CE
    Last edited by Crystaledwards; 02-22-2015 at 04:42 PM. Reason: Grammar and additional text.

  28. #78
    Lalalalalalalala....... LOL! Now returning to our saga of one of the Greatest Groups in history............The Temptations! It began to look like the Tempts had auditioned, invited and discarded just about every available, talented male vocalists they went retro. They invited former Spinner and solo star G. C. Cameron to join the Temptations and he accepted! I would have never guessed this one. G.C. is an awesome singer, but he had been a soloist for decades. The Temptations from (2003–2007):

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    Name:  temptations GC Cameron 07.jpg
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    Last edited by marv2; 02-22-2015 at 03:59 PM.

  29. #79
    After 4 years with the Temptations, I guess G.C. decided that he could hang so he too left the group which by now was mostly a touring act. In fact that by the 90s and 00s, there were so many "Temptations" acts out there usually consisting of one former member of the Temptations and four new and unknown singers that you had to designate "Otis' Temptations" the one associated directly with Motown (or Universal). With G.C. gone, in steps Big Bruce Williamson as a lead singer. Hard to believe but Bruce was born in 1970 when the Tempts were riding high with "Ball of Confusion". The Temptations from (2007–present):
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  30. #80
    supremester Guest
    I don't know a lot about The Tempts after Eddie left, so this is interesting . I'm not a fan of Otis, but if he's a jerk to work with, don't work with him. I don't enjoy his group and he sweats like a piece of rancid pork just by walking on stage. It's too bad he can't work with Dennis' group - they are faboo.
    I think The Supremes' revolving door criticism is worse than that of The Tempts because of the size of the group AND personnel involved. DMC were far more visable to the public at large than The Tempts ever were - plus, there was only one star of the group who sang lead and one star of the bg - Flo - who loomed large over Mary. Cindy was a great replacement as far as a step-in, but, she brought nothing close to the group like Flo did - which elevated Mary's status and created a lot more focus on Miss Ross. Once Diana left, another great step-in joined, but still not a replacement for Diana in terms of starnosity. So, you have the least fave of the original 3 as the only familiar face......then it changed AGAIN. The Tempts still had 80% of the group when Dennis arrived, and he was an amazing vocal fit and looked great. PLUS The Tempts had the added plus of having Norman whitfiekd change his approach to The Tempts singles by featuring at least 4 of them members and funking up the sound at the same time. By comparison, Frank Wilso broke very little new ground with JMC.
    Ultimately, Otis was wise not to try to take over the group lead, and kept the sound as close to the original as possible.

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    I don't know a lot about The Tempts after Eddie left, so this is interesting . I'm not a fan of Otis, but if he's a jerk to work with, don't work with him. I don't enjoy his group and he sweats like a piece of rancid pork just by walking on stage. It's too bad he can't work with Dennis' group - they are faboo.
    I think The Supremes' revolving door criticism is worse than that of The Tempts because of the size of the group AND personnel involved. DMC were far more visable to the public at large than The Tempts ever were - plus, there was only one star of the group who sang lead and one star of the bg - Flo - who loomed large over Mary. Cindy was a great replacement as far as a step-in, but, she brought nothing close to the group like Flo did - which elevated Mary's status and created a lot more focus on Miss Ross. Once Diana left, another great step-in joined, but still not a replacement for Diana in terms of starnosity. So, you have the least fave of the original 3 as the only familiar face......then it changed AGAIN. The Tempts still had 80% of the group when Dennis arrived, and he was an amazing vocal fit and looked great. PLUS The Tempts had the added plus of having Norman whitfiekd change his approach to The Tempts singles by featuring at least 4 of them members and funking up the sound at the same time. By comparison, Frank Wilso broke very little new ground with JMC.
    Ultimately, Otis was wise not to try to take over the group lead, and kept the sound as close to the original as possible.

    Uh, what thread are you reading?

  32. #82
    Marv this is a great thread! I think Otis let Dennis come back so many times because Dennis did a lot of leads on their hits it may have been a business decision. Weldon McDougal who is no longer with us told me the reason why some of the Tempts (did not say which ones) had to be let go was due to drug use. Also bad behavior (not showing up for rehearsals..etc). Many of the Temps were able to have a great sound for the replacements as well like Damon Harris replacing Eddie.

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    Marv this is a great thread! I think Otis let Dennis come back so many times because Dennis did a lot of leads on their hits it may have been a business decision. Weldon McDougal who is no longer with us told me the reason why some of the Tempts (did not say which ones) had to be let go was due to drug use. Also bad behavior (not showing up for rehearsals..etc). Many of the Temps were able to have a great sound for the replacements as well like Damon Harris replacing Eddie.
    Thank you Stephanie. My sister saw this thread and the pictures and was startled to realized that Otis Williams has not aged, does not age...hmmmmmmmm....... LOL
    Last edited by marv2; 02-23-2015 at 06:35 PM.

  34. #84
    Hey mav my man good thread on the temptin temps and thier many members,i'm gonna say again what i said some years ago on another post about the temps and this is to the otis haters,i'm one of his biggest fans...had otis not had the-vision,toughness,buisiness savvy,we would not even be having this discussion did he make mistakes?of course as we all have during the course of our lives making choices that affect those we are responsible for,and otis is in charge of the temps and for 55yrs keeping them around when many have faded,imagine what would've happened if he had let david have his way[david ruffin and the temptations]or if he had listened to eddie[go on strike no shows no recording]no he had to stay cool so my hat is off the great[yes i said it]the great mr.otis williams-member emiritus of the temptations...oh and before anyone says something smartass like..well he's the only one still living,i wish that..eddie-david-paul-al-richard-melvin were still here.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Hey mav my man good thread on the temptin temps and thier many members,i'm gonna say again what i said some years ago on another post about the temps and this is to the otis haters,i'm one of his biggest fans...had otis not had the-vision,toughness,buisiness savvy,we would not even be having this discussion did he make mistakes?of course as we all have during the course of our lives making choices that affect those we are responsible for,and otis is in charge of the temps and for 55yrs keeping them around when many have faded,imagine what would've happened if he had let david have his way[david ruffin and the temptations]or if he had listened to eddie[go on strike no shows no recording]no he had to stay cool so my hat is off the great[yes i said it]the great mr.otis williams-member emiritus of the temptations...oh and before anyone says something smartass like..well he's the only one still living,i wish that..eddie-david-paul-al-richard-melvin were still here.
    Thank you JAI and thank you for saying what you said!

  36. #86
    After Otis was Richard Street with the Tempts the longest? Why did Richard leave the group? I never knew the reason for his exit.

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    After Otis was Richard Street with the Tempts the longest? Why did Richard leave the group? I never knew the reason for his exit.
    rod_rick, read post #48 in this thread and let me know if that answers it for you.

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Now there was the matter of this big Temptations Reunion back in the 80s, 1982 to be exact. Who's original idea was it? I am not sure, but I sure am not going to ask Shelly Berger because I would bet good money what he'll say......When the news hit, questions abounded about who or which Temptations were going to be a part of the reunion. We got the answer pretty quickly when this promo picture was released:

    Attachment 9136
    Here the guys appear together on "Solid Gold":


  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Uh, urrr, ahhh and you know that! LOL!!!

    Seriously, he was the iron fist! Someone would have to help me understand how that many talented singers, grown men would join a World famous group like the Temptations and then start screwing up to the point of being dismissed! How could that even be possible?? Does that make sense to anyone reading this?

    Marv; they wanted more money; Usually Otis said "No"

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by edafan View Post
    Marv; they wanted more money; Usually Otis said "No"
    edafan, I believe it was a combination of things and each situation had it's uniqueness. Damon Harris for example. I understand that Mr. Gordy didn't like his attitude and ask Otis to drop him.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    edafan, I believe it was a combination of things and each situation had it's uniqueness. Damon Harris for example. I understand that Mr. Gordy didn't like his attitude and ask Otis to drop him.
    Richard Street should be in the RRHOF group. You know more inside information than most of us. I talked to the Temptations in 2002 for an hour. Truly gentlemen. I didn't get to talk to the bass ,man; but to Otis Ron Terry Bo. It is not an easy life.

    Remember Otis and Melvin figured it out that they had to keep performing to make any money. Also leaving Motown and coming back Melvin and Otis got the right to produce their stuff. At that time it was revolutionary. The only other performer to challenge the system was Curtis Mayfield; Curtom records he founded.

    Great post

    edafan

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by edafan View Post
    Richard Street should be in the RRHOF group. You know more inside information than most of us. I talked to the Temptations in 2002 for an hour. Truly gentlemen. I didn't get to talk to the bass ,man; but to Otis Ron Terry Bo. It is not an easy life.

    Remember Otis and Melvin figured it out that they had to keep performing to make any money. Also leaving Motown and coming back Melvin and Otis got the right to produce their stuff. At that time it was revolutionary. The only other performer to challenge the system was Curtis Mayfield; Curtom records he founded.

    Great post

    edafan
    Now that is something I agree with you on 1000% and that being Richard Street should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! He should have been there now for years. When the Tempts were inducted in 1999, Richard was in good standing with the group and had been a member for 28 years by that point (longer than some of those inducted).

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by edafan View Post
    Richard Street should be in the RRHOF group. You know more inside information than most of us. I talked to the Temptations in 2002 for an hour. Truly gentlemen. I didn't get to talk to the bass ,man; but to Otis Ron Terry Bo. It is not an easy life.

    Remember Otis and Melvin figured it out that they had to keep performing to make any money. Also leaving Motown and coming back Melvin and Otis got the right to produce their stuff. At that time it was revolutionary. The only other performer to challenge the system was Curtis Mayfield; Curtom records he founded.

    Great post

    edafan

    Curtis understood things early on and had the talent and business sense to back it up. Same thing with Sam Cooke. The Motown acts were mostly kept in the dark about finances, royalties, publishing ,etc, etc.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Curtis understood things early on and had the talent and business sense to back it up. Same thing with Sam Cooke. The Motown acts were mostly kept in the dark about finances, royalties, publishing ,etc, etc.
    I agree

    edafan

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by blueskies View Post
    How many of them have passed, now?
    IDK, lemme count down:

    Paul Williams - first Temptation to die (1973)
    Elridge "Al" Bryant - second to die (1975)
    David Ruffin (1991)
    Eddie Kendricks (1992)
    Melvin Franklin (1995)
    Ricky Owens (1996)
    Ray Davis (2005)
    Harry McGIlberry (2006)
    Ali-Ollie Woodson (2010)
    Richard Street (2013)
    Damon Harris (2013)

    Of the 22 Temptations members, 11 have died.

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You would have thought that the above grouping would have stayed together much longer being they were having big hits, winning Grammys etc, etc.....but NOoooooooo! By early 1975 it was time for another change! Here they are ladies and gentlemen.....The Temptations as they were from (1975–1977):
    Attachment 9133
    Not Otis trying the Superfly hairdo either...

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    After Otis was Richard Street with the Tempts the longest? Why did Richard leave the group? I never knew the reason for his exit.
    Otis and Melvin were the longest serving Tempts. Ron Tyson replaced Richard as the third longest-serving Tempt (32 years this year; Richard was with the group for 21 years until 1992). Reason he left was he and Otis had words. Richard had been sick and apparently Otis didn't get the word so either he was fired or Richard and Otis argued and Richard quit. But I think Otis fired him.

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    As I said, I can understand your reluctance, but it would make a nice read just as this thread is a nice read of the Tempts.

    I forgot that Theo's first spot in the 4 Tops was as Payton's replacement. Theo probably left the Tempts to be with a more stable group. But then look what happened to him with the Tops. Do you know why he left the Tops?

    He left for the same reason he left the Tempts: arguing with the de-facto group leader. I think it was money issues. We have to remember, the Phoenix Rising album was mostly finished when Theo left in 1998. I think he left right after recording his magnum opus with the group ("This Is My Promise"). By the time he left, the Tempts had one more song to do for the album and that's when Barrington Henderson (former lead singer of Lakeside though not an original; he sang lead on their R&B hit "Bullseye") stepped in. He was on the cover of the album and lipped Theo's voice for their "Stay" video.

  49. #99
    Here's Theo doing This Is My Promise during a solo gig from roughly three years ago:


  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Not Otis trying the Superfly hairdo either...

    Did you see them on Midnight Special back then? Summer of 75? He looked like that on the show. I think I remember the whole show was devoted to the Tempts and their lastest album containing "Glass House", "Shakey Ground" etc.

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