"8" Supremes

**marybrewster** · 02-03-2015, 12:33 PM

I saw a post on Facebook yesterday; someone had posted a picture collage of the 8 Supremes: Diana, Mary, Flo, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye.

Someone else posted that in fact there were 9 Supremes: Barbara Martin.

The original posted mentioned they didn't include Barbara, as the Supremes didn't become famous until after Barbara left. I get that.

But then someone mentioned that Barbara perhaps was a Supreme longer than Lynda was a Supreme.

Not to get into a pissing match, but I found that interesting. I'm wondering, is it true? When did Barbara join and when did she leave, versus when did Lynda join and leave? Each Supreme certainly contributed something to the group, and each is deserving of kudos. I don't know that it matters how LONG you were a Supreme, just that in fact, you were.

**reese** · 02-03-2015, 12:44 PM

I would agree with you in that if you were a Supreme, it doesn't matter how long you were in the group.

I think Barbara joined in 1960 and left in 1962. Unless I'm mistaken, Lynda was a Supreme from 1972 to 1973.

RossHolloway · 02-03-2015, 01:07 PM

Was Betty a Supreme or just a Primette?

**skooldem1** · 02-03-2015, 01:15 PM

I think Lynda and Susaye's time in the group was about the same. Someone once posted all this information here. It's in the archives somewhere.

**sansradio** · 02-03-2015, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

Was Betty a Supreme or just a Primette?

Betty was a Primette; Barbara was present when the name was changed to The Supremes.

**antceleb12** · 02-03-2015, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

Was Betty a Supreme or just a Primette?

I think, regardless, she is still part of the group's history. By that count, I would say ten Supremes. Back then, girl group quartets were more popular than trios [[the Chiffons, the Shirelles, the early Marvelettes, etc.). Essentially, they 'needed' that fourth member to get those harmonies popular at the time.

**marybrewster** · 02-03-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I think Lynda and Susaye's time in the group was about the same. Someone once posted all this information here. It's in the archives somewhere.

Thanks school, I'll have to dig for it.

**kenneth** · 02-03-2015, 02:32 PM

According to the "official" [[Supremes Pink Box Set) lineage, Barbara Martin was a Supreme but Betty McGlown isn't included. But I wouldn't count her as a Supreme if she was never part of the group when they used that name. Still, she certainly is part of the group's history if she was a Primette.

**jobeterob** · 02-03-2015, 02:55 PM

Agree with Kenneth.

Here I thought this had something to do with Supremes Fans and 8 inches. And I thought it was going to be amazingly interesting!

It still is kind of.

**bradsupremes** · 02-03-2015, 03:29 PM

Barbara's time with the group began in the summer of 1960 [[either June/July). She said in her interview with Mary that she was there for the "Pretty Baby" and "Tears of Sorrow" LuPine recording sessions. The group began recording at Motown as early as October 1960 and we're officially signed in January 1961 becoming the Supremes. The girls record throughout 1961 and Barbara's last vocal session is in December 1961 although both Barbara and Mary confirmed she was in and out of the group up to the spring 1962 [[April or May). That would make her tenure roughly 1 year and 10/11 months. There is question over the song "Beginning To Ending" which was recorded in 1963 and I swear Barbara is on that, but she was gone by then.

Lynda joined in April 1972 although she claims 1971 which can't be true as Cindy didn't become pregnant until February 1972. Lynda becomes pregnant in 1973 and both she and Jean leave by fall [[September or October?). So her time was roughly 1 year and 6 months.

Susaye joined in February 1976 and the first thing she did was, I believe, record her vocals on "High Energy" and "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking." The ladies gave the final show at the Drury Lane on June 12, 1977. So that roughly 1 year and 4 months.

**marybrewster** · 02-03-2015, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

Barbara's time with the group began in the summer of 1960 [[either June/July). She said in her interview with Mary that she was there for the "Pretty Baby" and "Tears of Sorrow" LuPine recording sessions. The group began recording at Motown as early as October 1960 and we're officially signed in January 1961 becoming the Supremes. The girls record throughout 1961 and Barbara's last vocal session is in December 1961 although both Barbara and Mary confirmed she was in and out of the group up to the spring 1962 [[April or May). That would make her tenure roughly 1 year and 10/11 months. There is question over the song "Beginning To Ending" which was recorded in 1963 and I swear Barbara is on that, but she was gone by then.

Lynda joined in April 1972 although she claims 1971 which can't be true as Cindy didn't become pregnant until February 1972. Lynda becomes pregnant in 1973 and both she and Jean leave by fall [[September or October?). So her time was roughly 1 year and 6 months.

Susaye joined in February 1976 and the first thing she did was, I believe, record her vocals on "High Energy" and "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking." The ladies gave the final show at the Drury Lane on June 12, 1977. So that roughly 1 year and 4 months.

Thanks for clearing that up brad. Again, I don't know that "time served" is as important as the overall contribution of each member, but it's an interesting topic.

To play devil's advocate, I would also question if Susaye's "end" as a Supreme came with the final show at Drury Lane. I suppose it was the "official" end of the Supremes, but with the thought being that the Supremes would continue [[with Scherrie, Susaye and.....Joyce?), that she could techincally be considered a Supreme longer. Does anyone know exactly when the Supremes were OFFICIALLY defunct?

Again, not to stir up any pot, but one could argue that Susaye, while with the Supremes the shortest amount of time, probably had the most exposure of Barbara, Lynda or Susaye. I just adore Miss Susaye, and some of my favorite Supremes tracks are from her era.

Now, on to other fish to fry:

Who was a Supreme longer: Flo or Cindy?

Flo was in the group from January '61 [[as a SUPREME) until June [[?) 1967. That's 6 1/2 years.

Cindy was in the group from June [[?) 1967 until 1972: let;s just say that's 4 1/2 years. Then she returned from 1974 [[1973?) until 1976. That's roughly over 2 years.

So is it fair to say Cindy was a Supreme longer?

**kenneth** · 02-03-2015, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Thanks for clearing that up brad. Again, I don't know that "time served" is as important as the overall contribution of each member, but it's an interesting topic.

To play devil's advocate, I would also question if Susaye's "end" as a Supreme came with the final show at Drury Lane. I suppose it was the "official" end of the Supremes, but with the thought being that the Supremes would continue [[with Scherrie, Susaye and.....Joyce?), that she could techincally be considered a Supreme longer. Does anyone know exactly when the Supremes were OFFICIALLY defunct?

Again, not to stir up any pot, but one could argue that Susaye, while with the Supremes the shortest amount of time, probably had the most exposure of Barbara, Lynda or Susaye. I just adore Miss Susaye, and some of my favorite Supremes tracks are from her era.

I totally agree that if you measure the impact that they had, Susaye had a far greater impact on the Supremes than did Lynda. I know Lynda has her fans and her supporters, but I find it hard to understand why when she only appeared on 2 albums and her backgrounds were largely indistinguishable, whereas Susaye's voice was immediately felt and so unique that even though she was overdubbed on just 2 songs on one album and only really fully participated in one other, her contribution is inarguable. Again, not to disparage Lynda, but it seems she really was just a background singer to me whereas Susaye's sound - like Scherrie's - completely changed the whole dynamic of the group.

**marybrewster** · 02-03-2015, 04:45 PM

Speaking of Lynda: I know it's been said that Mary was the "sexy one", but I think Lynda has to be a close second.

I mean, just look at those beads shakin'! One of my favorite Supremes clips, ever!

**marv2** · 02-03-2015, 05:08 PM

Barbara Martin gets extra points from me for being an Original Supreme, being from Detroit and doing the hard work early on with the group performing in less than stellar places, recording etc ,etc. before they became famous and well established. She, Mary, Diane and Flo had it harder.

**marv2** · 02-03-2015, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

I totally agree that if you measure the impact that they had, Susaye had a far greater impact on the Supremes than did Lynda. I know Lynda has her fans and her supporters, but I find it hard to understand why when she only appeared on 2 albums and her backgrounds were largely indistinguishable, whereas Susaye's voice was immediately felt and so unique that even though she was overdubbed on just 2 songs on one album and only really fully participated in one other, her contribution is inarguable. Again, not to disparage Lynda, but it seems she really was just a background singer to me whereas Susaye's sound - like Scherrie's - completely changed the whole dynamic of the group.

Lynda was the only member of the Supremes [[and I am including Barbara Martin), that Motown never recorded a lead on in the studio! If they did, he has not surfaced anywhere in all these years..........

**marv2** · 02-03-2015, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

Barbara's time with the group began in the summer of 1960 [[either June/July). She said in her interview with Mary that she was there for the "Pretty Baby" and "Tears of Sorrow" LuPine recording sessions. The group began recording at Motown as early as October 1960 and we're officially signed in January 1961 becoming the Supremes. The girls record throughout 1961 and Barbara's last vocal session is in December 1961 although both Barbara and Mary confirmed she was in and out of the group up to the spring 1962 [[April or May). That would make her tenure roughly 1 year and 10/11 months. There is question over the song "Beginning To Ending" which was recorded in 1963 and I swear Barbara is on that, but she was gone by then.

Lynda joined in April 1972 although she claims 1971 which can't be true as Cindy didn't become pregnant until February 1972. Lynda becomes pregnant in 1973 and both she and Jean leave by fall [[September or October?). So her time was roughly 1 year and 6 months.

Susaye joined in February 1976 and the first thing she did was, I believe, record her vocals on "High Energy" and "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking." The ladies gave the final show at the Drury Lane on June 12, 1977. So that roughly 1 year and 4 months.

If we want to get technical, Susaye remained a Supreme after Mary Wilson's Farewell Show up until Motown decided to disband the group! How many more months was that following July 12, 1977?

**marv2** · 02-03-2015, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Thanks for clearing that up brad. Again, I don't know that "time served" is as important as the overall contribution of each member, but it's an interesting topic.

To play devil's advocate, I would also question if Susaye's "end" as a Supreme came with the final show at Drury Lane. I suppose it was the "official" end of the Supremes, but with the thought being that the Supremes would continue [[with Scherrie, Susaye and.....Joyce?), that she could techincally be considered a Supreme longer. Does anyone know exactly when the Supremes were OFFICIALLY defunct?

Again, not to stir up any pot, but one could argue that Susaye, while with the Supremes the shortest amount of time, probably had the most exposure of Barbara, Lynda or Susaye. I just adore Miss Susaye, and some of my favorite Supremes tracks are from her era.

Now, on to other fish to fry:

Who was a Supreme longer: Flo or Cindy?

Flo was in the group from January '61 [[as a SUPREME) until June [[?) 1967. That's 6 1/2 years.

Cindy was in the group from June [[?) 1967 until 1972: let;s just say that's 4 1/2 years. Then she returned from 1974 [[1973?) until 1976. That's roughly over 2 years.

So is it fair to say Cindy was a Supreme longer?

But she [[Cindy Birdsong) was under contract to Motown as a Supreme through 1977!

**antceleb12** · 02-03-2015, 07:23 PM

Length doesn't matter. Most people couldn't tell you who Susaye Greene or Cindy Birdsong are, yet Florence is much more recognized [[and loved) by the public. Cindy might have technically been in the group longer than Flo, but she is not even on any of the group's #1 hits. What matters is what they contributed and how much impact it had. As marv mentioned above, Florence, Diana, and Mary [[Betty and Barbara included) had it the hardest. They started from nothing and were the ones that broke the barriers. Cindy, Jean, Susaye, and the rest, as great as they are, came in when the group was on top. However, the hits were not as powerful and their contributions not as groundbreaking [[with the exception of "Love Child") as they were with the DMF lineup.

**kenneth** · 02-03-2015, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Agree with Kenneth.

Here I thought this had something to do with Supremes Fans and 8 inches. And I thought it was going to be amazingly interesting!

It still is kind of.

I see where your mind immediately goes!!!

**carole cucumber** · 02-03-2015, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

I saw a post on Facebook yesterday; someone had posted a picture collage of the 8 Supremes: Diana, Mary, Flo, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye. ......

.

Mary,
Is it a new collage or is it the one used for Motown Superstar Series Vol 1?

**luke** · 02-04-2015, 06:13 PM

Barbara Martin was a Supreme. I believe the Flos never announce she was when they mention all the names. I though LL was just on Bad Weather and one album-Jimmy Webb. Somone above said two albums.

**marv2** · 02-04-2015, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Barbara Martin was a Supreme. I believe the Flos never announce she was when they mention all the names. I though LL was just on Bad Weather and one album-Jimmy Webb. Somone above said two albums.

This is if you were counting that Live album they did that was only released in Japan in 1973.