R&b hits of the 80s [[1980-1983)

[soulster]

I've decided to add Volume 15, and it will be the end. I now feel like i'm looking for songs.

[zebop]

You may recall the way Shalamar's "Dead Giveaway" came about. The Solar label was starting to struggle in 1983, so owner Dick Griffey commissioned the producers to write and produce a pop song specifically for Shalamar because he thought they had the most youthful appeal and the most potential to crossover. It worked. But, it just wasn't enough to help the label recover. The album "The Look" was a mismash of pop and solid R&B tracks. As soon as "Dead Giveaway" fell off the charts, what was the next single? The usual R&B fare - a ballad led by Howard Hewitt. The album didn't do all that well on the Billboard Top Album chart, probably because of that stylistic mixture. It is upsetting that Shalamar's final hit was from the film "Footloose" the next year, and wasn't even on the Solar label! It was on Columbia.

Solar didn't go under, but they stopped having top 10 hit singles. R&B was being co-opted by hip-hop, and, frankly, there were more exciting sounds in the pop/rock segments at the time. But, if they totally went in those directions, they risked alienating their aging R&B base. Solar went on to have scattered hits from Lakeside and Klyymaxx, and one from The Whispers, but it was never like the years between 1979-1982. Had Solar not been isolated in Los Angeles, and adopted the youthful sounds that Prince and his proteges were enjoying, if they had started incorporating hip-hop, perhaps they would have done better. Klyymaxx was the best they could do at that point. Even Rick James was finally getting more of the crossover sales that he desired, especially through The Mary Jane Girls and Eddie Murphy.

Speaking of "Footloose", Denise Williams must have been quite happy. She was able to get a pop hit "Let's hear It For The Boy".

Denise Williams never claimed to be an R&B singer. That may have been the way she began in the Columbia label in late 1976 under the direction of Maurice White, But, by 1980, she was doing pop, and being successful at it. In 1983, Larkin Arnold was placed in charge of the Black Music Division at CBS Records, and decided that Black artists should be doing R&B and be marketed towards Black radio. This interrupted Williams' gradual course toward pop fame. She did the best she could with "approved" producer George Duke, but she was no longer really getting pop singles. "Footloose" may have reversed her fortunes, but it didn't last. Williams moved on to Christian music.

There are tons of stories about what happened with R&B in the early 80s. Some people blame hip-hop. I don't. A generation gap had definitely emerged for the first time in R&B music. A new voice came that was more powerful than the one that occurred in the late 60s or in the mid-70s. The urban streets were finally being heard on their own terms.

Totally agree. Solar was pretty much the epitome of R&B for a time--and then it wasn't. In a way I think they should have concentrated on pure R&B product but I guess singing w/ Elektra/Asylum had them thinking of other things. Lots of promise w/ Solar and even a trademark sound--and coincidentally a sound the pop charts really didn't like...

What happened to Shalamar was especially sad. They sacrificed their R&B fans for those hits and of course the pop charts jettisoned them after one or two songs, ha--it happened time and time again...

True about Deniece Williams. Williams really should have known she was at her best as an R&B act, not pop, not disco. After the Thom Bell albums [[one great one with him, one so-so one) she did an ok one with George Duke. I'm So Proud didn't sell that well but "Do What You Feel" was a nice enough song.

Flash up a couple of years, Williams isn't best known for "Black Butterfly" or "Free" but that dreadful, "Let's Hear it For the Boy." Not surprisingly, the pop charts had no more time for her and that was it. Yep, Larkin Arnold--he was a great record guy, he really didn't care about crossing over...

Nope I don't blame hip-hop either, they were making better songs and albums than most of R&B...

[soulster]

Totally agree. Solar was pretty much the epitome of R&B for a time--and then it wasn't. In a way I think they should have concentrated on pure R&B product but I guess singing w/ Elektra/Asylum had them thinking of other things. Lots of promise w/ Solar and even a trademark sound--and coincidentally a sound the pop charts really didn't like...

Well, Griffey did concentrate on pure R&B. The distribution deal was because the last one with RCA didn't work out, and the deal with Elektra/Asylum was supposed to increase the distribution. Remember that he also had a simultaneous distribution deal with MCA for the Constellation label.

What happened to Shalamar was especially sad. They sacrificed their R&B fans for those hits and of course the pop charts jettisoned them after one or two songs, ha--it happened time and time again...

Here's where I disagree. Shalamar also had internal issues with the three members. Jeffery Daniels didn't show up for dates, and Howard Hewitt and Jody Watley were at odds with each other. Dick Griffey didn't sacrifice their base at all. If you recall the "The Look" album, it was a very nice mix of pop and solid R&B. As I pointed out earlier, the subsequent singles from that album were 100%, solid R&B that were successful, or as successful as anything before. And, they had a youthful sound and appeal. Now, I don't know if you remember the "Heartbreak" album, but it followed the same formula as "The Look", but failed. [[You'll probably have to pull it up to remember what it sounded like because it was so forgettable.)

Again, Griffey was having issues with his distributer. That is always a big factor when artists don't have product out there. There were also disputes with Leon Sylvers III, his house writer and head producer. By 1985, it seemed the only active artists still on the roster were The Deele, Lakeside, and Klyymaxx, who did get two hit albums and some top 10 singles, even on the Billboard Top 10 singles chart. Griffey switched his releases over to Capitol distribution, and we got one more Whispers hit single. That was about the last we heard from the label.

True about Deniece Williams. Williams really should have known she was at her best as an R&B act, not pop, not disco.

If you listen to her albums, she wasn't really stylistically R&B. Her singing and phrasing wasn't R&B, but there was always just enough to capture the R&B audience. IMO, she was stylistically closer to Barbra Streisand or Amy Grant.

Flash up a couple of years, Williams isn't best known for "Black Butterfly" or "Free" but that dreadful, "Let's Hear it For the Boy." Not surprisingly, the pop charts had no more time for her and that was it.

Man, you're starting to sound like Nelson George! LOL! Well, I thought "Let's Hear It For The Boy" was a great, fun record, and you can tell she really had fun with it, and enjoyed the success it brought her. Now, if she could have just kept doing songs like that, she could have achieved her goal. Maybe she should have become buddies with Walter Yetnikof. It worked for Michael Jackson.

Nope I don't blame hip-hop either, they were making better songs and albums than most of R&B...

The popularity of hip-hop was about the the Black generation gap, age, and economic status. It happened two or three decades later than the White generation gap, but it brewed slowly. The age gap is even evident on this forum. A lot of forum members are stuck in the 60s and early 70s, and there are some of us who kept listening. It wasn't just about age, it was about class, status, and geography. Until the 90s, hip-hop was the happening thing on the east coast, while the west coast was still resisting. I mean, Don Cornelius had to be forced to play a rap tune on his show. "The Message" was just too powerful to ignore. I remember the day he aired that video. It was groundbreaking, and, somehow, I knew he felt it marked the end for that era of R&B, and his dance show. Throughout the 80s, there was just enough R&B by the likes of Cherrelle, Alexander O'Neal, Surface, Janet Jackson, Bobby Brown, Freddie Jackson, Anita Baker, Tony Toni Tone!, and Pebbles, to keep them going for a while, but sooner or later, it all had to end. By 1989, even I lost track. I remember that by then, the older R&B audiences were headed to ZZ Hill, Trudy Lynn, and other aging veteran R&B artists. I guess they couldn't really identify with the Keith Sweats, Adina Howards, EnVogues, Babyfaces, and rap.

[marv2]

Soulster, I want a copy of this excellent collection.

[zebop]

Soulster, I want a copy of this excellent collection.

Ha me too.



Soulster, I think I got The Look and Heartbreak mixed up. Yep, I remember Heartbreak--I remember being nauseated by that cover, no Jeffrey, no Jody Watley--no sale. I think the sadder part of that era was seeing the "Over and Over" video with just Howard Hewitt and Micki Free. That was a classic Solar sounding track though. I bet Shalamar [[or whatever was left of them) thought they hit the big-time pop wise. Pop/MTV had a surprise for them, ha.


Yep, Solar was another one of those labels with scant roster. It never works--and Philadelphia International was trying the same thing and by 1984 their only acts were the O'jays and whatever was left in the can from Teddy Pendergrass and Patti LaBelle.

Ha, about Nelson George. I didn't mean to sound so contrary, I just hate/hated "Let's Hear it For the Boy" the end of the song wasn't awful though.

Got to agree about the generation gap. It was great in the '70s, we loved the same acts, like Philadelphia International singers, Al Green, an older relative used to go crazy over Larry Graham, ha. By the middle of the '80s it was different. I do think Don Corneilus had a disdain for rap--and really anything beyond a certain point. His views mirrored a lot of people though. And to be honest, by the time rap appeared and R&B declined, there was no need for Soul Train--and of course videos were the rage then too...

[soulster]

I bet Shalamar [[or whatever was left of them) thought they hit the big-time pop wise. Pop/MTV had a surprise for them, ha.

"Dead Giveaway" was a hit single, and the video was popular on MTV. Solar was at a fork in the road at that point. If they released another pop song from the album, they risked alienating their base, and risked a fickle pop audience. So, they went with their base and lost out anyway. "Dancing In The Sheets" still had a somewhat respectable showing at #17 on Billboard's Hot 100 pop chart, but that was the end of their pop single run. They did a little better on the Black singles chart. "Games" did get to #11 in 1987, but I couldn't begin to tell you how it sounds. I don't remember it.

The reason Dick Griffey ordered "Dead Giveaway" in mid-1983 is because R&B music was starting to lose sales to pop and rap music, was accused of being "white-washed", and that meant the label was suffering financially. Even their premier group The Whispers' music was getting stale with the same formula.

Yep, Solar was another one of those labels with scant roster. It never works--and Philadelphia International was trying the same thing and by 1984 their only acts were the O'jays and whatever was left in the can from Teddy Pendergrass and Patti LaBelle.

And, they appealed to an aging audience while Janet Jackson and Full Force attracted the young audiences.

I disagree. A small roster allows a label to be more nimble, and there is less financial risk. Tabu was another R&B label that was successful in the late 70s/80s. Owner Clarence Avant didn't try to water down the music, but they rode the same roller coaster.

I do think Don Cornelius had a disdain for rap--and really anything beyond a certain point.

Oh, I know he did! I remember how sullen he looked when he announced it before he played it. Well, maybe he really wasn't, but he came across that way to me, like he had been beaten and lost the fight, and that re realized his morality.

His views mirrored a lot of people though. And to be honest, by the time rap appeared and R&B declined, there was no need for Soul Train--and of course videos were the rage then too...

R&B did not decline, it just changed into something that older fans couldn't relate to.

It seems to be a common thing for older people to not relate to newer sounds and to lash out, but I refuse to become that way. I always try to stay in touch with the contemporary sounds. I like quite a bit of it, too. I'm at the age where I should be tuning out like my peers, but i'm not. I was in line at Target a few days ago. There was a man a bit older than me paying for his the Maroon5 CD. I thought it looked odd because only teenage girls are supposed to like them, right? Well, I asked him if it was for him, and he said he liked them. I thought it was cool because I buy pop music too.

Anyway, i'm suddenly feeling a desire to go past 1983 now.

[zebop]

I'll agree with that. I think I just didn't like the sounds and styles as much after a certain point, but I still did like R&B, but I moved more towards commercial jazz of the day. Let me know if you're looking for songs, I'll make a list of some favorites, the '80s were a good decade for R&B..

[soulster]

I'll agree with that. I think I just didn't like the sounds and styles as much after a certain point, but I still did like R&B, but I moved more towards commercial jazz of the day. Let me know if you're looking for songs, I'll make a list of some favorites, the '80s were a good decade for R&B..

I also moved to jazz in the 80s. But, even though I didn't care for some of the Brit-pop/new wave at the time, there was a lot I did like. I bought boxes of 45s to prove it.

I'm good. I have lots of R&B from the 80s.

[glencro]

Well, I bought and listened to both. For many of those tracks, I have both the album and 45 versions, an, in some cases, the 12" versions too. One of the reasons I use 45 versions is because sometimes, the album versions are just too long for my enjoyment. They're long just to take up time. I grew up in the 60s and 70s with hit radio, so I like songs tight and neat, and to the point. The other reason there are a lot of 45 versions in there is because many of them are rare, or don't exist digitally, except in my collection. So, if anyone hears these sets, they can hear how the single sounded like.

I was more so referring to the album tracks that were not singles. Usually 8 times out of 10 there would be a random track on the album that may never make it to radio but would be my favorite song from the album. Your compilation is beyond awesome. Brought back a lot of memories. Made me dig up my Brothers Johnson cd to revisit "Treasure"

[soulster]

I was more so referring to the album tracks that were not singles. Usually 8 times out of 10 there would be a random track on the album that may never make it to radio but would be my favorite song from the album. Your compilation is beyond awesome. Brought back a lot of memories. Made me dig up my Brothers Johnson cd to revisit "Treasure"

I try to create these compilations as id a real record company were doing them. Call it me being a frustrated reissue producer. The cool thing is that I can do what a real record company can't or won't.

[marv2]

Whoa.....hey Soulster! Where are your "Smurf" records young man? hmmmmm........LOL!!!!

[soulster]

Whoa.....hey Soulster! Where are your "Smurf" records young man? hmmmmm........LOL!!!!

That was after my time! I was raised in the Captain Kangaroo and Romper Room era.

[roger]

Whoa.....hey Soulster! Where are your "Smurf" records young man? hmmmmm........LOL!!!!

Could this be one of the tunes you mean Marv2?


Roger

[soulster]

Hah! I had forgotten all about that song! When did that come out?

[roger]

Hah! I had forgotten all about that song! When did that come out?

1982!!

I still have my 12" copy on U.K. Epic

Roger

[marv2]

That was after my time! I was raised in the Captain Kangaroo and Romper Room era.

No! You remember how popular the "Smurf" dance and the records that came along with it were in the early eighties?

[marv2]

Could this be one of the tunes you mean Marv2?


Roger

That's one of them. We use to party like animals to it, doing the Smurf! LOL!

[marv2]

Here's another one produced by Vaughn and them.......Spyder D's "Smerphies Dance"

[marv2]

This might help in remembering the "Smurf" craze of the early 80s:

http://fifthelementonline.com/blogs/...hop-circa-1982

[marv2]

I didn't really want to start another thread, but how many of you remember this little gem from 1981?

[zebop]

I remember that, great song, they had nice vocal chemistry. And what about that Mtume/Lucas production....

[soulster]

I remember that, great song, they had nice vocal chemistry. And what about that Mtume/Lucas production....

Gotta admit: i've either never heard that song or I don't remember ever hearing it.

[manny]

Hi, marv2

I buyer the single at the time when was published here in Spain. Nice, elegant, mid-tempo. This was no much after the Stephanie Mills - Teddy pendergrass collaboration in the PIR album "TP" [[if I well remember there's two tracks with the voice of Stephanie, "Feel The Fire" and "Take Me In Your Arms Tonight". A bad thing is that, at least in the PIR / CBS spanish edition of the cover art and the label there's no credit to Stephnaie vocals. I know that is she because I have read it much after.

Returning to the topic, I remember well when the 80's advanced, the second half of the decade we all the lovers of classic soul only can heard some things by Ichiban records [[Clarence Carter, Jerry Butler, Billy Paul), Malaco, the last good surprises by PIR [[O'Jay's "Let Me Touch You" album); our 70's heroes in the jazz - funk and fusion fields, in the 80's were more and more "electro" [[sometimes the result was good as the Clarke / Duke Project volumes or Herbie Hancock's "Sound System" album, etc.)... in general in soul music was a very poor decade, IMHO.

[marv2]

Hi, marv2

I buyer the single at the time when was published here in Spain. Nice, elegant, mid-tempo. This was no much after the Stephanie Mills - Teddy pendergrass collaboration in the PIR album "TP" [[if I well remember there's two tracks with the voice of Stephanie, "Feel The Fire" and "Take Me In Your Arms Tonight". A bad thing is that, at least in the PIR / CBS spanish edition of the cover art and the label there's no credit to Stephnaie vocals. I know that is she because I have read it much after.

Returning to the topic, I remember well when the 80's advanced, the second half of the decade we all the lovers of classic soul only can heard some things by Ichiban records [[Clarence Carter, Jerry Butler, Billy Paul), Malaco, the last good surprises by PIR [[O'Jay's "Let Me Touch You" album); our 70's heroes in the jazz - funk and fusion fields, in the 80's were more and more "electro" [[sometimes the result was good as the Clarke / Duke Project volumes or Herbie Hancock's "Sound System" album, etc.)... in general in soul music was a very poor decade, IMHO.

Hola! Manny, yes the other duet of Stephanie Mills and Teddy Pendergrass [[a remake of Peabo Bryson's popular 1978 hit), "Feel the Fire" received a lot of radio airplay here in the States. They did a great job with it. Why she was not credited on the Spanish release is a mystery.