Isn't it time to stand up to the NRA and demand stricter gun control laws.

[Crystaledwards]

Help me understand why every western industrialized democracy in the world understands the danger of gun proliferation despite their equivalent need for safety and freedom but here in good old USA we just don't get it. Why do Congressional Republicans refuse to support stricter background checks? After all, poll after poll shows that most Americanssupport this.

Lets face it. American has collectively and cumulatively sowed the seeds of complacency, indifference, apathy, cultural, and social irresponsibility for the last four decades all the while pretending everything is okay. Like other special interests the NRA has bought Congress. The soulless men and women in Congress have stabbed us in the back by failing to pass legislation, while taking millions of dollars from the pro-gun lobby movement and the vile Wayne LaPierre's. We cannot become a country without a conscience. The far right wants America to continue to be the laughing stock of the world with respect to our disgraceful, lackadaisical gun laws.

Let us debate this civilly and respectfully.

CE

[Jerry Oz]

It's too late. There's no way to effectively control who gets a gun anymore. If you think it's a good idea to take them away from those who "shouldn't have them", watch what happens when half of those charged with enforcing that operation either refuse to do it or join the side of the person whose guns are being taken.

It is absolutely futile to think that it's possible to rein in what has already been loosed. Can't happen. Won't happen. Not now, not ever. It would literally be a civil war and the side with the best and most guns will probably win, so...

[smark21]

The only way stricter gun control laws will be passed is if a Black Panther type group really asserts itself as they did in the late 60s.

[Jerry Oz]

Nah. They want that because sales to frightened White people would quadruple overnight. You know, can't have enough "self-defense" when the natives start getting restless. Even then, there'd be a lot of cases of unarmed Black folks being shot and juries acquitting the shooters under the guise of not knowing whether the brother was armed and thinking that he was going to shoot first. "How'd I know that he had a cell phone in his pocket, your honor? It was dark that afternoon and it looked like a .44 to me. And when he reached for it, I had to act or take a chance that he would shoot me."

The river overflowed about 30 years ago and we're trying to stop the surging water with a mop. It's way too little, way too late.

[Crystaledwards]

It's too late. There's no way to effectively control who gets a gun anymore. If you think it's a good idea to take them away from those who "shouldn't have them", watch what happens when half of those charged with enforcing that operation either refuse to do it or join the side of the person whose guns are being taken.

It is absolutely futile to think that it's possible to rein in what has already been loosed. Can't happen. Won't happen. Not now, not ever. It would literally be a civil war and the side with the best and most guns will probably win, so...

It is far from over. Hillary Clinton said earlier today that gun laws need to be reined in. Hopefully Mrs. Clinton will be our next President and will indeed push for stricter gun control laws. Frankly I don't want to live in a society where everyone at the mall or in a bar or on campus has a loaded gun.

CE

[Jerry Oz]

I hate where we are as a society, Crystaledwards. But enforcing any limits on guns when the crazies already have them will result in chaos. I have doubts that we could enforce laws that would limit the manufacture or distribution of guns, let alone that we could keep them out of the hands of anyone who wants one. Consider if someone diagnosed with a mental illness cannot get a gun from a licensed dealer, the laws are set up so that he can purchase one from a private owner at a gun show. They will continue to put loopholes into any legislation to control weapons. And I assure you that the fringe far right would mobilize in such vitriolic fashion that a Clinton congress would make Obama's congress look like the most progressive, proactive, and reasonable legislature ever.

Our nation is broken. The nuts have won. We're halfway through this president's second term and they have completely blocked any significant legislation that he proposed after the majority of voters elected him. Twice. The Democrats don't have the guts to slug it out with them. And the media picks up far-right talking points quickly because they want those assholes to watch their news broadcasts. And God forbid that something like the truth will ever come between a news operation and ratings.

After Newtown, gentleman who worked for me suggested that he'd go down shooting if the president came for his gun. When I asked if he was more concerned about the kids who were already dead than he was about the ones who will be shot in the next incident, he thought about it and told me that he was. So, even if it means future massacres, he will fight to the death to prevent gun control from ever taking place.

And these are the same nuts who want to disenfranchise legal voters because [[according to them) voter fraud will be the ruination of this country. So, a handful of illegal votes justifies taking away my Constitutionally-protected access to polling stations, but thousands of murders will not even stir the debate for common sense gun laws? By the way, it is a fabrication and distortion of the Constitution to suggest that it protects private gun ownership. It took the Supreme Court 200 years to figure out that it's the words of the document, not the intent that we should focus on. That's what we're facing.

[marv2]

Nah. They want that because sales to frightened White people would quadruple overnight. You know, can't have enough "self-defense" when the natives start getting restless. Even then, there'd be a lot of cases of unarmed Black folks being shot and juries acquitting the shooters under the guise of not knowing whether the brother was armed and thinking that he was going to shoot first. "How'd I know that he had a cell phone in his pocket, your honor? It was dark that afternoon and it looked like a .44 to me. And when he reached for it, I had to act or take a chance that he would shoot me."

The river overflowed about 30 years ago and we're trying to stop the surging water with a mop. It's way too little, way too late.

Ah ha ha! Jerry stop it! LOL!!!!!!

[marv2]

It is far from over. Hillary Clinton said earlier today that gun laws need to be reined in. Hopefully Mrs. Clinton will be our next President and will indeed push for stricter gun control laws. Frankly I don't want to live in a society where everyone at the mall or in a bar or on campus has a loaded gun.

CE

You forgot church! It is over. You'd better go and get you a gun!

[Jerry Oz]

We can't win, Marv. If you look, you'll find churches that pass out firearms to their parishioners, just like banks do.

We should all be very worried about this. The laws don't protect us. If a Republican is elected in 2016, I'll bet you a week's pay that within two years they will eliminate hate crime specifications from the law. Just like the Civil Rights Act was determined to be outdated, the Supreme Court will determine that it's unfair to determine that racism should be considered when punishment is meted. Watch and believe.

[Crystaledwards]

You forgot church! It is over. You'd better go and get you a gun!

I do not attend church. I suppose that Agnostic would describe me. I have no intention of ever owning a gun.

CE

[thomas96]

It's too late. There's no way to effectively control who gets a gun anymore. If you think it's a good idea to take them away from those who "shouldn't have them", watch what happens when half of those charged with enforcing that operation either refuse to do it or join the side of the person whose guns are being taken.

It is absolutely futile to think that it's possible to rein in what has already been loosed. Can't happen. Won't happen. Not now, not ever. It would literally be a civil war and the side with the best and most guns will probably win, so...

Exactly. At this point gun control won't help anything one bit. Already too many guns, legal and illegal, and owners, legal and mainly illegal. Guns could be outright banned for everyone and the bad guys would still get the guns and still kill. I'm not a politician, so I don't have a solution, but I'm fairly confident gun control is not the solution at this point.

[marv2]

I do not attend church. I suppose that Agnostic would describe me. I have no intention of ever owning a gun.

CE

Yeah, but believe it or not, there are people that do [[attend church) and their lives are also valuable.................

[marv2]

We can't win, Marv. If you look, you'll find churches that pass out firearms to their parishioners, just like banks do.

We should all be very worried about this. The laws don't protect us. If a Republican is elected in 2016, I'll bet you a week's pay that within two years they will eliminate hate crime specifications from the law. Just like the Civil Rights Act was determined to be outdated, the Supreme Court will determine that it's unfair to determine that racism should be considered when punishment is meted. Watch and believe.

I was at the Public Library in Bowling Green, Ohio in February of this year. As I approached the door, I was startled to see a sign on the door that said "Fire arms are permitted in this facility" or something close to that. I was like, WTF? Of course they would eliminate hate crime laws, they have been questioning the need for them for several years now, along with the need for Affirmative Action.

[Jerry Oz]

Ohio is going nuts. There's a park in a Columbus suburb [[Westerville) that had to remove its signs prohibiting handguns because the local gun clubs threatened to bankrupt the town with legislation based on constitutionality. I believe the Ohio legislature passed laws permitting handguns in bars a couple of years ago, as well.

[marv2]

Ohio is going nuts. There's a park in a Columbus suburb [[Westerville) that had to remove its signs prohibiting handguns because the local gun clubs threatened to bankrupt the town with legislation based on constitutionality. I believe the Ohio legislature passed laws permitting handguns in bars a couple of years ago, as well.

My mom told me about Ohio passing the law allowing guns to be carried into bars and I was shocked! I was sure she must have misunderstood what she had read in the papers. I mean, allowing people to have guns in places were people are drinking and well you know the rest!

[soulster]

I want to see every Black and Latino, and gang member arm themselves with guns. Unfortunately, that is the only thing that will scare de white folks into controlling funs. That's how it worked when drugs were banned. Black people had 'em and de white man didn't like that. Then, the "commie" hippies got 'em. They didn't like that either.

So, if you are Black, better get 'em while you can! Parade them everywhere you can.

[Jerry Oz]

And they were trying to pass a law that prevented bar owners from prohibiting concealed carry patrons from their businesses, but I think that one died without on the assembly floor. Imagine that: telling a business owner that he had no right to prohibit customers from bringing firearms into their establishments! I think that police officers embarrassed them by whole-heartedly opposing it and that's why it didn't succeed.

[marv2]

And they were trying to pass a law that prevented bar owners from prohibiting concealed carry patrons from their businesses, but I think that one died without on the assembly floor. Imagine that: telling a business owner that he had no right to prohibit customers from bringing firearms into their establishments! I think that police officers embarrassed them by whole-heartedly opposing it and that's why it didn't succeed.

Crazy, crazy country. Canada is looking real good to me right about now! LOL! These laws as well as that "stand your ground" law is creating a wild west mentality in America. It's sad. It is also quite dangerous.

[Crystaledwards]

I want to see every Black and Latino, and gang member arm themselves with guns. Unfortunately, that is the only thing that will scare de white folks into controlling funs. That's how it worked when drugs were banned. Black people had 'em and de white man didn't like that. Then, the "commie" hippies got 'em. They didn't like that either.

So, if you are Black, better get 'em while you can! Parade them everywhere you can.

Your posting is repugnant and offensive.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

Exactly. At this point gun control won't help anything one bit. Already too many guns, legal and illegal, and owners, legal and mainly illegal. Guns could be outright banned for everyone and the bad guys would still get the guns and still kill. I'm not a politician, so I don't have a solution, but I'm fairly confident gun control is not the solution at this point.

Then what is the solution? Perhaps a start would be reevaluating our broken mental health system. This latest tragedy was another deranged young man with severe mental health problems who conducted a murderous rampage with legally purchased arsenal. President Obama vowed after the Sandy Hook massacre to push through legislation to toughen gun laws. But legislation to introduce stricter background checks was defeated in Congress last year. It is time to name and shame every Democrat who voted against this bill and vote them out of office. When it comes to stricter gun control laws Republicans are a lost cause.

Something has to change.

CE

[marv2]

Then what is the solution? Perhaps a start would be reevaluating our broken mental health system. This latest tragedy was another deranged young man with severe mental health problems who conducted a murderous rampage with legally purchased arsenal. President Obama vowed after the Sandy Hook massacre to push through legislation to toughen gun laws. But legislation to introduce stricter background checks was defeated in Congress last year. It is time to name and shame every Democrat who voted against this bill and vote them out of office. When it comes to stricter gun control laws Republicans are a lost cause.

Something has to change.

CE

It is much easier to take away some gun rights and create even stiffer penalties for guns used in the commission of a crime than it would be to determine the mental fitness of potential gun buyers. First all, a lot of people can get guns illegally in this country. If an individual that may or may not have mental issues has already decided to committ murder or some other crime, it is unlikely they are going to go through the general red tape of purchasing and registering a fire arm.

[marv2]

This problem may have solvable if serious restrictions were put into place decades ago. Now, you have the NRA and other assorted general assholes that hold some form of power in this country firmly behind the "guns for everyone" mentality.

[soulster]

Your posting is repugnant and offensive.

CE

Whatever. Since 98% of congress, and probably 99.9% of the NRA is white, that's what it's going to take. The proliferation of guns in this country is due to the gun nuts, and they are arming themselves against the Black man in the White House, the government who taxes them, the Muslims how have declared jihad on the world, and the Latino illegal aliens they imagine are trying to take over their country. That is a fact. So, I don't care if you're offended. If the shoe fits...

[soulster]

Now: the man had Asperger's Syndrome. The problem is that now, if people weren't already ignorant enough about mental conditions and the mentally ill, and afraid of them, this situation, and others like it, will make it harder for people to take it seriously. And, now women everywhere are going to be even more fearful of any male who even looks at them.

There are scads of lonely young guys who want female companion and don't know how to get it, and with women being more paranoid because of this, it will make life tougher for everyone.

Lord knows there are tons of males the world over who think they should have women falling all over them just because they are men. It is drummed into males from day one that if they don't have women, they are less of a man. We say that if a man hasn't has a girlfriend by the time he's, say, 30, he must be gay. That is the worst thing for a guy to have women think of him.

[Crystaledwards]

Whatever. Since 98% of congress, and probably 99.9% of the NRA is white, that's what it's going to take. The proliferation of guns in this country is due to the gun nuts, and they are arming themselves against the Black man in the White House, the government who taxes them, the Muslims how have declared jihad on the world, and the Latino illegal aliens they imagine are trying to take over their country. That is a fact. So, I don't care if you're offended. If the shoe fits...

The shoe doesn't fit. Your "facts"are pulled from a crevice usually wiped behind a locked door.

CE

[smark21]

There is one area where gun control laws still reign in most parts of the country--guns are not allowed to be carried into public legislature buildings. How about this be removed? Legislators are removing gun control/restrictions from other public spaces...how about their own?

Frankly all these mass shootings by these insane people and the frothing at the mouth gun rights advocates are, in a way, putting a stigma on the whole notion of gun ownership and advocacy. I think over time, more and more people are going to look upon gun possession as something to be ashamed of, the provence of the crazy and the lower classes. As it seems nearly impossible for any sort of gun control legislation to be passed, perhaps efforts should be made along public health and social stigmatation lines.

[Crystaledwards]

I doubt there has been more misinformation about any subject in US history than about gun control and mental health, and all of it spawned by the self-serving billion dollar interests, primarily gun manufacturers via the NRA and the corporate healthcare profiteers. Both are responsible for creating falsehoods about President Obama taking their guns precious away, as if that were even remotely possible, coupled with the lies about the Affordable Care Act being socialized medicine. Neither of them are true.

CE

[marv2]

...and so it goes................!


http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/...un-rights.html

The weekend mass shooting in California and the Memorial Day holiday prompted local GOP activist Samuel “Joe the Plumber” Wurzelbacher to write an open letter to the parents of the murder victims that expresses his sympathy, but also declares: “Your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.”
Fearing that gun-control advocates will latch onto statements from victims’ relatives about how disturbed individuals such as California shooter Elliot Rodger acquire guns, the Springfield Township resident wrote on his Web site joeforamerica.com:

“I’m sorry you lost your child. I myself have a son and daughter and the one thing I never want to go through is what you’re going through now. But as harsh as this sounds — your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.”

RELATED CONTENT: Download PDF of the original letter

Mr. Wurzelbacher said in Monday’s posting that relatives’ statements will be exploited “by gun-grab extremists as are all tragedies involving gun violence and the mentally ill by the anti-Second Amendment Left.”

He urged against “playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends.”

“They don’t care about your family or your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don’t be fooled — I care about your family and mine. The future of our very liberty lies in the balance of this fight,” Mr. Wurzelbacher wrote.

He specifically addressed Richard Martinez whose 20-year-old son was among those killed. Mr. Martinez has blamed the NRA and irresponsible politicians for allowing mentally unstable people the ability to buy guns.

Reached Tuesday night, Mr. Wurzelbacher said his posting was “a little blunt for some people.”

It even led, he said, to two emailed death threats, which he plans to report to the FBI this morning.

But he added, “A lot of people are glad that I’m as blunt as I am.” On a week that the country just celebrated Memorial Day, he said gun-control advocates are making a mockery of what Americans fought and died for over the years.

Blaming guns for deaths such as those in California, is not the answer, he said, adding that guns allow many to protect themselves.

Mr. Wurzelbacher, 40, gained fame in 2008 when Mr. Obama happened to stop by his front yard on the campaign. They talked about taxes and the conversation was picked up in national debates.

Since then, he’s spoken in about 48 states to crowds ranging from 20 to 20,000.

Speaking about once a month is one of five jobs that Mr. Wurzelbacher said he holds.

He’s a line worker at Chrysler. He operates his Web site, which employs about 30 writers, most of whom are freelancers, but a few are full-time. He’s about to debut a gun company, which he described as a retail operation that also produces original designs. And he still works as a plumber as well as taking on other jobs, such as tree work.

He is not, however, eager to run for office again. “God, I hope not,” he said in response to such a query.

He was disappointed in his 2012 congressional campaign by the offers he got for significant donations — if only he would make certain statements. He was unwilling, he said, to compromise his principles to do that.

“It’s hard for a regular Joe to make things happen,” he said of the need for money in successful campaigns.

But he’s still trying to do just that, he said, with his Web site, which he said gets 3.5 million to 8 million hits per month.

Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/...ledxsHDDJB5.99

[Crystaledwards]

...and so it goes................!


http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/...un-rights.html

The weekend mass shooting in California and the Memorial Day holiday prompted local GOP activist Samuel “Joe the Plumber” Wurzelbacher to write an open letter to the parents of the murder victims that expresses his sympathy, but also declares: “Your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.”
Fearing that gun-control advocates will latch onto statements from victims’ relatives about how disturbed individuals such as California shooter Elliot Rodger acquire guns, the Springfield Township resident wrote on his Web site joeforamerica.com:

“I’m sorry you lost your child. I myself have a son and daughter and the one thing I never want to go through is what you’re going through now. But as harsh as this sounds — your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.”

RELATED CONTENT: Download PDF of the original letter

Mr. Wurzelbacher said in Monday’s posting that relatives’ statements will be exploited “by gun-grab extremists as are all tragedies involving gun violence and the mentally ill by the anti-Second Amendment Left.”

He urged against “playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends.”

“They don’t care about your family or your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don’t be fooled — I care about your family and mine. The future of our very liberty lies in the balance of this fight,” Mr. Wurzelbacher wrote.

He specifically addressed Richard Martinez whose 20-year-old son was among those killed. Mr. Martinez has blamed the NRA and irresponsible politicians for allowing mentally unstable people the ability to buy guns.

Reached Tuesday night, Mr. Wurzelbacher said his posting was “a little blunt for some people.”

It even led, he said, to two emailed death threats, which he plans to report to the FBI this morning.

But he added, “A lot of people are glad that I’m as blunt as I am.” On a week that the country just celebrated Memorial Day, he said gun-control advocates are making a mockery of what Americans fought and died for over the years.

Blaming guns for deaths such as those in California, is not the answer, he said, adding that guns allow many to protect themselves.

Mr. Wurzelbacher, 40, gained fame in 2008 when Mr. Obama happened to stop by his front yard on the campaign. They talked about taxes and the conversation was picked up in national debates.

Since then, he’s spoken in about 48 states to crowds ranging from 20 to 20,000.

Speaking about once a month is one of five jobs that Mr. Wurzelbacher said he holds.

He’s a line worker at Chrysler. He operates his Web site, which employs about 30 writers, most of whom are freelancers, but a few are full-time. He’s about to debut a gun company, which he described as a retail operation that also produces original designs. And he still works as a plumber as well as taking on other jobs, such as tree work.

He is not, however, eager to run for office again. “God, I hope not,” he said in response to such a query.

He was disappointed in his 2012 congressional campaign by the offers he got for significant donations — if only he would make certain statements. He was unwilling, he said, to compromise his principles to do that.

“It’s hard for a regular Joe to make things happen,” he said of the need for money in successful campaigns.

But he’s still trying to do just that, he said, with his Web site, which he said gets 3.5 million to 8 million hits per month.

Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/...ledxsHDDJB5.99

What a disgusting piece of human feces. His 15 minutes were up when McCain lost the election.

CE

[soulster]

The shoe doesn't fit. Your "facts"are pulled from a crevice usually wiped behind a locked door.

CE

Once a person resorts to personal attacks, it means they have run out of arguments [[if they ever had any to begin with). This means YOU, CE.

[Crystaledwards]

Once a person resorts to personal attacks, it means they have run out of arguments [[if they ever had any to begin with). This means YOU, CE.

It actually means that I was pointing out the area where your "facts" come from. You should consider adding a link to back up the percentages you use.

Your desire to arm every single gang member is beyond ludicrous.

CE

[Jerry Oz]

I'm not for advocating gang bangers, but if it's not against the law to carry guns openly, fathers in the Black and Latino communities should form armed block watches. Forget about concealed carry. If you have a couple of brothers on patrol carrying rifles [[a la the Panthers in the '60s), I promise you there will never be a need for them to use them.

[Jerry Oz]

Once a person resorts to personal attacks, it means they have run out of arguments [[if they ever had any to begin with). This means YOU, CE.

BTW, she's right to say that it was not a personal attack. She doubted the validity of your argument, but she didn't attack you for making it. For the record, I'm closer to your POV on this matter than you might think.

[soulster]

It actually means that I was pointing out the area where your "facts" come from. You should consider adding a link to back up the percentages you use.

Your desire to arm every single gang member is beyond ludicrous.

CE

I have no desire to argue with you. Obviously, you didn't get the point of my post.

[Crystaledwards]

I have no desire to argue with you. Obviously, you didn't get the point of my post.

I appreciate your anticipated silence on this matter.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

BTW, she's right to say that it was not a personal attack. She doubted the validity of your argument, but she didn't attack you for making it. For the record, I'm closer to your POV on this matter than you might think.

Thank you Jerry.

CE

[soulster]

BTW, she's right to say that it was not a personal attack. She doubted the validity of your argument, but she didn't attack you for making it. For the record, I'm closer to your POV on this matter than you might think.

She can doubt the validity of my argument all she wants. I wasn't joking. The only way you make people do something is if you scare the bejesus out of them. A quick look at history will tell you this. Drugs were banned when the ruling class thought the "wrong" people were getting them. They're trying to cut welfare because the "wrong" people are getting them. They're trying to restrict voting because the "wrong" people voted in the last presidential election. They enacted crazy immigration laws because the "wrong" people were coming in. They created a political movement because the "wrong" man was elected president. They will enact new gun laws if enough of the 'wrong" people get them and parade them on their turf.

If you think my thinking is over the top, so be it. I guarantee you that if it ever came to pass, we will get those gun restrictions. White fear is real, and we have see the results of it time and time again. There is a reason whites flee to rural areas and pull their children out of public schools. Too many of 'them" are there for them to feel comfortable and safe.

Oh, BTW, i'm not too far off the mark. Of the 113th congress: 95% of the Senate is White. 81% of the House of Representatives is White.

[Crystaledwards]

She can doubt the validity of my argument all she wants. I wasn't joking. The only way you make people do something is if you scare the bejesus out of them. A quick look at history will tell you this. Drugs were banned when the ruling class thought the "wrong" people were getting them. They're trying to cut welfare because the "wrong" people are getting them. They're trying to restrict voting because the "wrong" people voted in the last presidential election. They enacted crazy immigration laws because the "wrong" people were coming in. They created a political movement because the "wrong" man was elected president. They will enact new gun laws if enough of the 'wrong" people get them and parade them on their turf.

If you think my thinking is over the top, so be it. I guarantee you that if it ever came to pass, we will get those gun restrictions.

If you are referring to far right Republicans as "they" then say so. 69,456,897of Americans voted for President Obama in 2008 and 65,464,068 reelected him in 2012. The majority of voters are not bad people. The Tea Party and the far right of the GOP are a paranoid and bigoted bunch and they are just as scared of a Hillary Clinton Presidency than they are of the current White House resident. Adding more guns to an already gun crazed society is not a viable solution. Opposing a path to citizenship will really hurt the Republicans, because it just unmasks their inherent racism and bigotry, and Latino voters will remember that for generations. There will be immigration reform and it will only help elect more Democrats, hopefully ones with balls. Texas will eventually go blue and that will be the end of the GOP as we know it. The Republican Party has other positions that would just as much be considered unappealing to Latino voters. Their positions on entitlement reform, education, global warming, healthcare, and other social welfare programs, would be a major concern for Latino voters just gaining their citizenship. We will get tighter and better gun laws and I believe we will get them within the next 12 years.

CE

[soulster]

Let us debate this civilly and respectfully.

CE

Well, you're the one who decided to offer up analogies to wiping paper behind closed doors. It seems we are actually on the same side of this issue, but you would rather be at odds with me because you don't like the way I presented the racial component of it. I guarantee you, it's there.

Why does congress refuse to enact stricter gun laws? They live in fear of retribution at the ballot box. But, to be fair, it isn't just republicans. A fair number of democrats also fear political retribution.

If you are referring to far right Republicans as "they" then say so. 69,456,897of Americans voted for President Obama in 2008 and 65,464,068 reelected him in 2012. The majority of voters are not bad people. The Tea Party and the far right of the GOP are a paranoid and bigoted bunch and they are just as scared of a Hillary Clinton Presidency than they are of the current White House resident. Adding more guns to an already gun crazed society is not a viable solution. Opposing a path to citizenship will really hurt the Republicans, because it just unmasks their inherent racism and bigotry, and Latino voters will remember that for generations. There will be immigration reform and it will only help elect more Democrats, hopefully ones with balls. Texas will eventually go blue and that will be the end of the GOP as we know it. The Republican Party has other positions that would just as much be considered unappealing to Latino voters. Their positions on entitlement reform, education, global warming, healthcare, and other social welfare programs, would be a major concern for Latino voters just gaining their citizenship. We will get tighter and better gun laws and I believe we will get them within the next 12 years.

I know you are trying to side-step a part of what I am talking about because you're offended, but I am indeed talking about the far-right WHITE voter. The republicans have allowed these radicals to control the party, because, while they might not agree with what they stand for, they see them as the best chance they have to get back into the white house and control all of congress again.

[soulster]

BTW, she's right to say that it was not a personal attack. She doubted the validity of your argument, but she didn't attack you for making it. For the record, I'm closer to your POV on this matter than you might think.

She could have left out the bit about wiping.

[Crystaledwards]

Well, you're the one who decided to offer up analogies to wiping paper behind closed doors. It seems we are actually on the same side of this issue, but you would rather be at odds with me because you don't like the way I presented the racial component of it. I guarantee you, it's there.

Why does congress refuse to enact stricter gun laws? They live in fear of retribution at the ballot box. But, to be fair, it isn't just republicans. A fair number of democrats also fear political retribution.

I apologize for my rather crude analogy. It wasn't the racial component of your posting I objected to it was your suggestion to arm more people with guns in a society already overloaded with firearms. We have over 270,000 guns in this country which greatly disgusts and distresses me. Stand your ground laws already cause an increase in homicides. You see when you tell the George Zimmerman's of the world that "its okay to take out your gun and start shooting people" it results in more deaths. Adding more guns would only justify Stand Your Ground and increase the murder rate. But then again reality is just propaganda for the the NRA.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

Well, you're the one who decided to offer up analogies to wiping paper behind closed doors. It seems we are actually on the same side of this issue, but you would rather be at odds with me because you don't like the way I presented the racial component of it. I guarantee you, it's there.

Why does congress refuse to enact stricter gun laws? They live in fear of retribution at the ballot box. But, to be fair, it isn't just republicans. A fair number of democrats also fear political retribution.

I know you are trying to side-step a part of what I am talking about because you're offended, but I am indeed talking about the far-right WHITE voter. The republicans have allowed these radicals to control the party, because, while they might not agree with what they stand for, they see them as the best chance they have to get back into the white house and control all of congress again.

Then the Republicans are even more delusional if that's even possible. For the record, I never side step on an issue I believe in.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ths-fact-check

[soulster]

I apologize for my rather crude analogy. It wasn't the racial component of your posting I objected to it was your suggestion to arm more people with guns in a society already overloaded with firearms. We have over 270,000 guns in this country which greatly disgusts and distresses me. Stand your ground laws already cause an increase in homicides. You see when you tell the George Zimmerman's of the world that "its okay to take out your gun and start shooting people" it results in more deaths. Adding more guns would only justify Stand Your Ground and increase the murder rate. But then again reality is just propaganda for the the NRA.

CE

OK, now I understand your being offended. And, I agree. But, again, I think that is the only thing that will make [[politicians) rise up and say "Enough!", and stand up to the NRA and all the other gun nuts.

I do live in one of those gun nut states, and am probably used to seeing anyone walking around with firearms on holsters or tucked into their pants. I'm a bit immune to that. But, it's always those of a particular demographic doing it. You never see anyone else carrying guns. The rest are concealed, which you can carry without a permit here, too.

[Crystaledwards]

OK, now I understand your being offended. And, I agree. But, again, I think that is the only thing that will make [[politicians) rise up and say "Enough!", and stand up to the NRA and all the other gun nuts.

I do live in one of those gun nut states, and am probably used to seeing anyone walking around with firearms on holsters or tucked into their pants. I'm a bit immune to that. But, it's always those of a particular demographic doing it. You never see anyone else carrying guns. The rest are concealed, which you can carry without a permit here, too.

I still vehemently disagree with you on adding more guns. I firmly believe it is a recipe for disaster. If gunning down children in the classroom doesn't affect Politicians, then they are completely soulless and should be voted out of Congress.

I could never get used to people walking around with visible guns in holsters. Allowing concealed weapons also makes me very uncomfortable. Are you in Texas perchance?

CE

[Jerry Oz]

He's in Arizona. And there is no way to prevent the guns at this point. It's only a question of how you can best protect yourself. Forget that stupid idea about arming teachers. They will kill even more kids as they shoot blindly in the general direction of the attacker. Armed combat is no joke and the person that scares me nearly as much as the assailant is some wannabe cowboy a who thinks that he's in charge because he's strapped. That's the same panicky bullshit attitude that Zimmerman displayed up until the point that he was getting his as beat by a17-year old.

[Crystaledwards]

He's in Arizona. And there is no way to prevent the guns at this point. It's only a question of how you can best protect yourself. Forget that stupid idea about arming teachers. They will kill even more kids as they shoot blindly in the general direction of the attacker. Armed combat is no joke and the person that scares me nearly as much as the assailant is some wannabe cowboy a who thinks that he's in charge because he's strapped. That's the same panicky bullshit attitude that Zimmerman displayed up until the point that he was getting his as beat by a17-year old.

Then he has my sincerest sympathy. There must be something in the drinking water in the state of Arizona. Governor Jan Brewer, Sheriff Adolph Arpaio and Rep. David Schweikert make Mitt Romney look somewhat liberal and that's saying something.

Arming teachers is such an asinine idea but the NRA is firmly behind it.

CE

[Jerry Oz]

Mitt Romney was a moderate before selling out to the tea baggers. So was John McCain. Both had a chance to beat Obama by running on their record, but not by wiping the slate and rebranding themselves as hardcore conservatives. Until they realize that they scare people with their crazy solutions, they will need a Democrat to absolutely shoot herself/himself in the foot to win the presidency.

[Crystaledwards]

Mitt Romney was a moderate before selling out to the tea baggers. So was John McCain. Both had a chance to beat Obama by running on their record, but not by wiping the slate and rebranding themselves as hardcore conservatives. Until they realize that they scare people with their crazy solutions, they will need a Democrat to absolutely shoot herself/himself in the foot to win the presidency.

Mitt Romney was a horrible candidate and a very unlikeable man. McCain ruined all of his credibility as a moderate by accepting Sarah Palin for his veep. He must deeply regret agreeing to Palin to this day. He wanted Joe Lieberman and should have insisted on Lieberman. He allowed Rove to force Palin on him and lost all of my respect for putting that ignorant fool from Alaska on the National stage.

CE

[soulster]

Are you in Texas perchance?

CE

I'm in Arizona, and it's about the same here. If you can't get used to seeing people casually walk around with guns, don't come here!

You did make me think of something else, though. A lot of the disagreements and arguments on this forum come from people not knowing much about each other, other than the old-timers who already know each other from past associations. Once one understands who we are, and what kind of environment another comes from, I believe there will be less hostility...or, that is my hope.

Except for the love of Motown music, I probably have less in common with everyone else on this forum.