What's unusual about this great Marvin Gaye track?

**snakepit** · 05-23-2014, 07:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGDOBwjoFrg

**marv2** · 05-23-2014, 07:37 PM

I am not sure if you mean that it has the Temptations and the Andantes backing him on this?

**snakepit** · 05-23-2014, 07:39 PM

No
There is something about this track that I can't recall on any other vocal on a Motown song...there may be, but I don't know of any.

**snakepit** · 05-23-2014, 07:41 PM

As it's 40 minutes past midnight here in the Uk, I must be off to bed..
I'll be on tomorrow...see if anybody gets it

**midnightman** · 05-23-2014, 08:14 PM

Lol you mean Marvin's voice?

Interesting use of percussion. This is one of my favorites from his '60s "leftovers".

**marv2** · 05-23-2014, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by snakepit

As it's 40 minutes past midnight here in the Uk, I must be off to bed..
I'll be on tomorrow...see if anybody gets it

Snakepit. Please don't forget~

thomas96 · 05-23-2014, 08:39 PM

I love this song. I recall seeing an acetate of it for sale at a record fair, but I couldn't afford it at the time. It killed me missing out on it.

Is it that the title phrase "my love for you" is never sung? There are many songs like that, but that's what I can think of...

**midnightman** · 05-24-2014, 12:30 AM

^ That could be it.

**snakepit** · 05-24-2014, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by thomas96

I love this song. I recall seeing an acetate of it for sale at a record fair, but I couldn't afford it at the time. It killed me missing out on it.

Is it that the title phrase "my love for you" is never sung? There are many songs like that, but that's what I can think of...

Well Done...that's the answer

the title is never sung...it's not in the lyrics at all, and I reckon that is the reason why it was rejected, as Motown liked strong hooks, titles.....things to make the track stand out.
It's a fantastic record but you can't actually remember that KEY piece that would make it a strong seller.

**splanky** · 05-24-2014, 07:31 AM

So, are you citing this as the first time Marvin had done this or the first time any Motown artist had? I ask because you have to know it's not the only time in either case. For Marvin
other examples would be Inner City Blues, Sad Tommorows and even the mostly instrumental Cleo's Apartment. As far as other Motown acts The Temptations Masterpiece
comes to mind...

**144man** · 05-24-2014, 07:44 AM

Off the top of my head, I can think of the Temptations' "Last One Out Is Brokenhearted", and going back to the early days the Downbeats' "Request of A Fool".

**roger** · 05-24-2014, 07:54 AM

There is also "The Onion Song" by MARVIN GAYE & TAMMI TERRELL where they sing "The World is Just a Great Big Onion" rather than the song title ...

Plus any number of instrumental tracks .....

Roger

**snakepit** · 05-24-2014, 08:05 AM

Clearly there are some others...
Things like Masterpiece were from an era that saw such changes...I was thinking mainstream 60s Motown...just struck me with this tune as it was widely bootlegged, and was given several titles ...hence the real title threw me when it came out officially.

**carole cucumber** · 05-24-2014, 08:05 AM

Although not that unusual [[for we are all human and make mistakes) on Tamla Motown Connoisseurs Vol. 2, Richard Searling states in the booklet that Kim Weston is on background vocals [[I don't hear her, the only female voices that I hear are Andantes).
Only William 'Mickey' Stevenson is credited on 'TheMaster' and TMC2 as the songwriter [[but joined by Ivy Jo Hunter in producing the song), yet the write-up by Mr. Searling states that both men are the song's composers. The YouTube video you link also lists the writer[[s) as both men.
Some websites list the timing of the song as 2:60 [[?????)

**snakepit** · 05-24-2014, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by 144man

Off the top of my head, I can think of the Temptations' "Last One Out Is Brokenhearted", and going back to the early days the Downbeats' "Request of A Fool".

my view on the Temptations track is that it was a 'working' title....that may have been cleared up if it had a chance of release...just a view

**144man** · 05-24-2014, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by snakepit

my view on the Temptations track is that it was a 'working' title....that may have been cleared up if it had a chance of release...just a view

That sounds right to me.

**carole cucumber** · 05-24-2014, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by snakepit

my view on the Temptations track is that it was a 'working' title....that may have been cleared up if it had a chance of release...just a view

In fact, "Last One Out Is Brokenhearted' had 3 earlier proposed titles, 'In This Room', 'Just Your Love', and 'Don't Take Your Love Away'. Although the song contains the phrase "in the gloom of my lonely room'', none of the lyrics contain any of the 4 proposed titles.

**snakepit** · 05-24-2014, 08:32 AM

Maybe, like Marvin's, the lack of an obvious title was a drawback...we'll never know I guess

**snakepit** · 05-24-2014, 08:37 AM

I can imagine Berry saying "Where's the hook? what's the title? etc etc...NEXT!

"If you leave me [[I'll go crazy) " sounds the best bet.

**westgrandboulevard** · 05-24-2014, 09:51 AM

Absolutely, snakepit.....

There was that track by Edward Earling [[DFTMC lists Mickey Stevenson as the co-writer) with 'My Love For You' as the title, recorded in 1963......

...which was followed in 1965 by a song recorded by Tommy Good with the same title, and which DFTMC says was written by Smokey Robinson, but 'The Tommy Good Motown Collection' lists the writer as Mickey Stevenson ...and the title is not strongly featured in the lead vocal...

....then, Smokey Robinson with the Miracles recorded a track in the following year [[same as Marvin Gaye,1966), which was written by Clarence Paul & Luvel Broadnax, but also gave it the same title... ...

After all that lot, yes, I'd certainly go along with the title of "If you leave me [[I'll go crazy)" for the Marvin track.....but it is certainly a Motown classic, whatever title it is given...LOL

thomas96 · 05-24-2014, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by snakepit

Well Done...that's the answer

the title is never sung...it's not in the lyrics at all, and I reckon that is the reason why it was rejected, as Motown liked strong hooks, titles.....things to make the track stand out.
It's a fantastic record but you can't actually remember that KEY piece that would make it a strong seller.

Yes, that HAD to be the reason it was never released. I can't think of any other 60s "motown sound" tracks that are similar. I love the song though and think it definitely deserved the 'honor' of being an album filler.

**carole cucumber** · 05-24-2014, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Absolutely, snakepit.....

There was that track by Edward Earling [[DFTMC lists Mickey Stevenson as the co-writer) with 'My Love For You' as the title, recorded in 1963......

...which was followed in 1965 by a song recorded by Tommy Good with the same title, and which DFTMC says was written by Smokey Robinson, but 'The Tommy Good Motown Collection' lists the writer as Mickey Stevenson ...and the title is not strongly featured in the lead vocal...

..LOL

But if you listen to the Tommy Good song, it sure sounds like a Smokey composition; it has many of the earmarks present in a Smokey composition- the clever rhymes, the peppy rhythm, the repetitive chorus that builds upon the previous chorus. The phrase 'My love is strong for you' is the hook in the background, sung by the Andantes.
It is definitely not the same song that Marvin recorded.
As regards the Edward Earling recordings, Earl McDaniels name appears first. It wouldn't surprise me if Mickey only helped to refine the tune, claiming partial credit as often happened back in the day.

**midnightman** · 05-24-2014, 11:08 AM

I'm guessing this track was an outtake that never got off because the title was probably a working one... but yea we'll never know.

**marv2** · 05-24-2014, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by thomas96

I love this song. I recall seeing an acetate of it for sale at a record fair, but I couldn't afford it at the time. It killed me missing out on it.

Is it that the title phrase "my love for you" is never sung? There are many songs like that, but that's what I can think of...

Get down Thomas! You hit it!

**robb_k** · 05-24-2014, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by snakepit

Well Done...that's the answer

the title is never sung...it's not in the lyrics at all, and I reckon that is the reason why it was rejected, as Motown liked strong hooks, titles.....things to make the track stand out.
It's a fantastic record but you can't actually remember that KEY piece that would make it a strong seller.

I'm sure that was NOT a factor, at all. I've seen literally hundreds of songs that had title changes. Quality control was not going to shelve a songbecause the title wasn't repeated in the lyrics. If it was hit worthy, a new title could easily be lifted out of the lyrics.

**tamla617** · 05-24-2014, 06:47 PM

This thread shows the depth of knowledge on SDF. One track , thats it and thats all it takes and somebody gives three diffrent titles "in waiting". The depth of knowledge. Its outstanding. I love this place!
Thankyou!

**tamla617** · 05-24-2014, 06:56 PM

Ive got problems here . I cant edit the spelling mistoooks [[!) The words were jumpin' but cock all changed!!! BTW I do know how how to spell diffrent! Its u n u s u a l...there you go!

thomas96 · 05-24-2014, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by robb_k

I'm sure that was NOT a factor, at all. I've seen literally hundreds of songs that had title changes. Quality control was not going to shelve a songbecause the title wasn't repeated in the lyrics. If it was hit worthy, a new title could easily be lifted out of the lyrics.

RObb, I agree, but I think the main thing is that this song just doesn't really have a catchy hook. No hook is probably why it didn't get released. The title kind of plays into that, because the hook would likely be the title. No hook means no hit. Still I think it is an absolutely fantastic track.

**robb_k** · 05-24-2014, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by carole cucumber

But if you listen to the Tommy Good song, it sure sounds like a Smokey composition; it has many of the earmarks present in a Smokey composition- the clever rhymes, the peppy rhythm, the repetitive chorus that builds upon the previous chorus. The phrase 'My love is strong for you' is the hook in the background, sung by the Andantes.
It is definitely not the same song that Marvin recorded.

As regards the Edward Earling recordings, Earl McDaniels name appears first. It wouldn't surprise me if Mickey only helped to refine the tune, claiming partial credit as often happened back in the day.

I have no doubt at all that this is EXACTLY what happened in this case. Ivy Hunter said that that was exactly what happened in MANY of the songs listed as written by "Stevenson-Hunter".

I like Edward Earling's 3 cuts I heard in The Motown Vault. I hope there are more, and that they all will eventually end up on an Ace/Kent CD, or, at least on The Internet for download.

**Methuselah2** · 05-25-2014, 04:12 AM

Here's one I've wondered about:

The Marvelettes/MAYBE I DRIED MY TEARS [[FOR THE LAST TIME)
[Recorded 1965]

Written by Wm. 'Mickey' Stevenson, Wm. Weatherspoon, & Sylvia Moy

But I seem to hear TEARDROPS. Any opinions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w3lL6Y23to

Thanks to MARVELETTES4U for this YouTube posting.

**westgrandboulevard** · 05-25-2014, 04:49 AM

Agreed, Meth2...I do hear 'teardrops' -and, while we're here, I especially enjoy hearing the background Marvelettes loud and clear, as well as The Andantes sweetening those lustily singing voices from Inkster.

And also, what about 'Tonight Was Made For Love' when it's clearly 'This Night Was Made For Love'. The title should represent the finished track if it is to be released, not any 'working title' which may have been applied to it earlier in the process. It's what's in the grooves that's counts....

Lest we wobble off topic, maybe you could consider starting a new thread on miscellaneous tracks which bear little or no resemblance to the title they have been given.....

**Methuselah2** · 05-25-2014, 06:21 AM

Thanks, WGB. I really like that tune, and the background is awfully good.

The Marvelettes' THIS NIGHT/TONIGHT was THIS NIGHT on the cover of THE PINK ALBUM but I think it was TONIGHT on the vinyl record label. Then it became TONIGHT on subsequent inclusion in products. But what's actually being sung, as you mentioned, is THIS NIGHT.

**westgrandboulevard** · 05-25-2014, 06:48 AM

You're quite right, Meth2. I don't have the LP to check the label on the disc, but I can see an image of the vinyl album in the booklet which accompanies 'Forever More', and which also states that "This Night..." was mistakenly printed on the LP jacket.

The song must have been copyrighted as 'Tonight...', before the album was released, but using 'Tonight' in the title doesn't make any logical sense.

"Awfully good". Now, you once said I was so English [[!), but I've not heard that description for a very long time. Formerly in general use by educated, elderly English people...and probably Katherine Hepburn

**Methuselah2** · 05-25-2014, 10:49 AM

Oh, you know me, WGB--when I've got my fascinator on, I'll say anything!

**phil** · 05-25-2014, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Methuselah2

Thanks, WGB. I really like that tune, and the background is awfully good.

The Marvelettes' THIS NIGHT/TONIGHT was THIS NIGHT on the cover of THE PINK ALBUM but I think it was TONIGHT on the vinyl record label. .

On my copy of the album [[mono) both titles are "THIS NIGHT". Maybe it's different on the stereo copies ?

**Methuselah2** · 05-25-2014, 05:25 PM

Phil - That sounds very possible. Or maybe it started to change with subsequent printings.

Here's the cover of the stereo version showing THIS NIGHT:

Attachment 8186

And here's Tomovox's great video of the tune showing 2 different versions of the label, both with TONIGHT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBALn3KR5d8

**144man** · 05-26-2014, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Absolutely, snakepit.....

There was that track by Edward Earling [[DFTMC lists Mickey Stevenson as the co-writer) with 'My Love For You' as the title, recorded in 1963......

...which was followed in 1965 by a song recorded by Tommy Good with the same title, and which DFTMC says was written by Smokey Robinson, but 'The Tommy Good Motown Collection' lists the writer as Mickey Stevenson ...and the title is not strongly featured in the lead vocal...

....then, Smokey Robinson with the Miracles recorded a track in the following year [[same as Marvin Gaye,1966), which was written by Clarence Paul & Luvel Broadnax, but also gave it the same title... ...

After all that lot, yes, I'd certainly go along with the title of "If you leave me [[I'll go crazy)" for the Marvin track.....but it is certainly a Motown classic, whatever title it is given...LOL

DFTMC is correct in attributing the composition of Tommy Good's "My Love For You" to Smokey Robinson. There are four different songs in the Jobete catalog with that title, but the other three were known previously and can thus be eliminated.