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  1. #1
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    Supremes Rock a bye your baby


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    I don't think I've seen that since it aired in '65. Very enjoyable. And those dresses just might have been the tightest The Supremes ever wore. Literally poured into them, they looked terrific. Thanks for posting Soulballad.

  3. #3
    supremester Guest
    Thank You for sharing this rare treat!

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    A clip from the Red Skelton Show 27th. Jan. 1966.

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    Although I never enjoyed their rendition of "Rockabye" [[Judy Garland's is far superior and definitive), their choreography for this piece is top-notch. Great find!

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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    Although I never enjoyed their rendition of "Rockabye" [[Judy Garland's is far superior and definitive), their choreography for this piece is top-notch. Great find!
    Although I liked Judy's , my favorite version is the original by Al Jolson. He was popular way before my time. But I knew of him and liked him.

    But this thread reminded me that there was a version in the top ten when I was a kid and the artist wasn't even a singer. Jerry Lewis had a top ten hit with this song



    And the first time I ever heard of Aretha, she was singing her top forty version of the song which she recorded for Columbia before her Atlantic years

  7. #7
    smark21 Guest
    Al Jolson was the first to sing it [[or at least hit with it). He performed that song in blackface in the 20s. When was this song finally ditched from the Supremes' act?

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    I, and I am sure there were others who could not appreciate this performance here. This is during the time I believe Berry had gone too far.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    Al Jolson was the first to sing it [[or at least hit with it). He performed that song in blackface in the 20s. When was this song finally ditched from the Supremes' act?
    It's funny, because Jolson was also a huge champion for civil rights.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    It's funny, because Jolson was also a huge champion for civil rights.
    That is not true at all! It was screenwriter Ben Hecht [[who worked with Jolson once...) was active in the promotion of civil rights.

    Al Jolson's "act" was disgustingly racist then as it would be now! Doesn't matter because he is very dead now........

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    That is not true at all! It was screenwriter Ben Hecht [[who worked with Jolson once...) was active in the promotion of civil rights.

    Al Jolson's "act" was disgustingly racist then as it would be now! Doesn't matter because he is very dead now........
    Let me rephrase that. It's funny, because Jolson considered himself a promoter of African-American music and a fighter for rights for blacks in the performance industry.

    Now...I don't know how much of that is actually true, but that IS how Jolson is seen by many, as well as himself...

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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    Let me rephrase that. It's funny, because Jolson considered himself a promoter of African-American music and a fighter for rights for blacks in the performance industry.

    Now...I don't know how much of that is actually true, but that IS how Jolson is seen by many, as well as himself...
    Al Jolson was an opportunist! He made himself up in black face at the suggestion of another performer at the time. He did it to make money and become famous. He gave no thought to hurting the image and collective self-esteem of an entire group of people that were already catching Hell in America. There were some black performers during his era that even praised him for opening doors for REAL black performers and assisting in the acceptance of jazz music among the white masses [[ how sad and sick is that?) . He is now probably where all demons go......

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Al Jolson was an opportunist! He made himself up in black face at the suggestion of another performer at the time. He did it to make money and become famous. He gave no thought to hurting the image and collective self-esteem of an entire group of people that were already catching Hell in America. There were some black performers during his era that even praised him for opening doors for REAL black performers and assisting in the acceptance of jazz music among the white masses [[ how sad and sick is that?) . He is now probably where all demons go......
    Again, I'll add that Jolson's intentions are debatable, but despite his blackface performances, he is still revered by many people today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    Again, I'll add that Jolson's intentions are debatable, but despite his blackface performances, he is still revered by many people today.
    There is nothing to debate when it comes to Al Jolson. He knew exactly what he was doing when he put on black face over and over and over and went out to perform in front of all white audiences.


    The debate for me here is what in the Hell was Berry Gordy thinking when he had the Supremes go on national television in the midst of the Civil Rights struggle and sing this disgusting song about Dixie? Was he really that desparate to "crossover" that he gave up some of his pride as a black man in America?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    There is nothing to debate when it comes to Al Jolson. He knew exactly what he was doing when he put on black face over and over and over and went out to perform in front of all white audiences.
    For the third time, I'M not arguing for Jolson's case, but merely comparing his actions with how he is perceived.

  16. #16
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    great clip, thanks
    these gowns would have been better at the copa then the blue ones

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    I totally agree that seeing Jolson or Garland or any of these performers perform in black face makes for extremely uncomfortable viewing today, but does it necessarily mean the performers were racist? That type of entertainment was mainstream at the time, as mean spirited as it may have been at its core. I don't know enough about Jolson to argue either way; I'm just not sure you can conclude he was racist by the fact that he did those minstrel numbers.

  18. #18
    supremester Guest
    A) You know nothing about Al Jolson - he was a civil rights pioneer and known to be that, you imbecile.
    B) Performing in black face was not an indication of racism in the first half of the century. It was a form of musical entertainment from decades before. When the NAACP took exception to the practice, all singers sensitive to the black cause ceased the routines immediately.
    C) MANY black performers before, during and after civil rights performed this song. Ever hear of Lena Horne, Sammy Davis or Aretha Franklin?
    D) After the YEARS of your homophobic hatred being spewed all over the internet, I cannot believe you have the cahoonas to even mention anything of the kind. You are free to feel and speak as you please, but know that your hate filled rhetoric against any group makes you the equivalent of ANY hate filled bigot against ANY group. I'm not going to sully this forum with your vile sputum, but anyone who would like examples of your venom may contact me privately.
    E) Berry Gordy gave up NONE of his pride - Motown did more for civil rights than you obviously can comprehend. Two years after this clip aired, Diana Ross performed Afro Vogue to an audience who tuned in to see Baby Love, until it segued into Somewhere and a Free At Last speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    There is nothing to debate when it comes to Al Jolson. He knew exactly what he was doing when he put on black face over and over and over and went out to perform in front of all white audiences.


    The debate for me here is what in the Hell was Berry Gordy thinking when he had the Supremes go on national television in the midst of the Civil Rights struggle and sing this disgusting song about Dixie? Was he really that desparate to "crossover" that he gave up some of his pride as a black man in America?

  19. #19
    honest man Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    A) You know nothing about Al Jolson - he was a civil rights pioneer and known to be that, you imbecile.
    B) Performing in black face was not an indication of racism in the first half of the century. It was a form of musical entertainment from decades before. When the NAACP took exception to the practice, all singers sensitive to the black cause ceased the routines immediately.
    C) MANY black performers before, during and after civil rights performed this song. Ever hear of Lena Horne, Sammy Davis or Aretha Franklin?
    D) After the YEARS of your homophobic hatred being spewed all over the internet, I cannot believe you have the cahoonas to even mention anything of the kind. You are free to feel and speak as you please, but know that your hate filled rhetoric against any group makes you the equivalent of ANY hate filled bigot against ANY group. I'm not going to sully this forum with your vile sputum, but anyone who would like examples of your venom may contact me privately.
    E) Berry Gordy gave up NONE of his pride - Motown did more for civil rights than you obviously can comprehend. Two years after this clip aired, Diana Ross performed Afro Vogue to an audience who tuned in to see Baby Love, until it segued into Somewhere and a Free At Last speech.
    Well said i really think this Marv person ,really needs to be booted off this forum .He is FOUL.

  20. #20
    smark21 Guest
    Here's a little blurb from 2000 about Blackface and 20th century show biz culture with mentions of Al Jolson. I wouldn't call Jolson a major political activist--his main cause was always himself as he had a huge ego and craved the spotlight. Jolson is just a very dated entertainer. Rock a Bye Baby with a Dixie Melody is similariy dated song with roots in minstrel songs [[that often celebrated plantation life during slave days) as it sentimentalizes a very ugly culture--the old South. Certainly performing this song in the mid 60s when civil rights workers were being killed and abused was in bad taste, but the song was still a razzle dazzle show biz standard. But as with a number of aspects of the supremes Copa/nightclub/Vegas act, it was looking backwards, still cashing in a lucrative market, rather than looking forward. By the way, when was it removed from their act?

    http://www.musicals101.com/blackface.htm

  21. #21
    smark21 Guest
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Folks_at_Home

    Here's info about the song Swanee River [[proper title Old Folks at Home) which is referenced in Rock a Bye Your Baby.

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    It is sad to see some here call Al Jolson a racist. If you really want to read an accurate account about him, warts and all, read "JOLSON- The Legend Comes To Life" by Herbert G. Golman. Nowhere is he referred to as a racist. His biggest flaw may be that he had a huge ego. But that is also what made him the biggest star of his generation. He was billed as the World's Greatest Entertainer, a title he bestowed on himself, just as Michael bestowed himself with the title KING OF POP.

    Blackface was accepted in its time, but in today's society it makes us cringe. Similar to watching an I LOVE LUCY episode and seeing Lucy and Ricky blowing cigarette smoke into Little Ricky's face.

    In another thread, it was mentioned that kids of today do not know who Diana Ross is because she was popular over fifty years ago. As a kid, I knew who Al Jolson was and he was fifty years before my time. So there goes that hypothesis.

    As for Rock A Bye Your Baby, it was my introduction to Aretha. Loved her voice and the arrangement. But she made a great career choice to move to Atlantic where they gave her the right materiel to become the Queen of Soul.

  23. #23
    supremester Guest
    Many white and black stars performed Rockabye, Swannee and others because they were good songs that pleased crowds and not for their presumed political or social content from decades ago. They were old favorites that everyone knew and most enjoyed. No one gave a thought or cared about the songs other than their entertainment value. I don't agree that it was in bad taste at all. The Supremes did change the lyric to "mommy, mine" instead of "Mammy, mine" so they were aware of the roots of the song. Aretha and Sammy Davis used the term Mammy. I was 10 when Copa came out and thought mommy mine sounded silly. I didn't know what a mammy was. I seriously doubt that Ed Sullivan, Dorothy Kilgallen or any other ringsider at The Copa was celebrating and longing for pre-Civil War days when watching DMF, Sammy, Lena Aretha, Judy or Al sing these songs.

    Jolson was known for his huge ego, was it bigger than most other top entertainers of their day or today? Bigger than Kanye? I have not read that. Jolson felt his blackface routine was bringing black culture to white audiences and helping to attain acceptance. I did a fair amount of research on him in 1972 for a paper in english, but as I age, I an't remember everything or I would cite sources.

    Rockabye was in the act into 1966 as they performed it at Blinstraubs. It may have been replaced by More that year, as the need for a straw hat and cane routine for the biggest US group ever diminished somewhat. Also, with Marlene Barrow working occasionally as a Supreme, I doubt that she was ever taught that routine. Aretha performed several Jolson tunes thru '67 - including Swanee and, my fave, You Made Me Love You, but I don't know if Rockabye was still in her act after she had hits at Atlantic. It was, I believe, her first top 40 single. I'll yell it out to her in June and see if she'll do it. The Supremes' version said "we belong - we are not just a rock n roll act with a few hits" and helped ingratiate them into mainstream entertainment circles so that they could very soon do Afro Vogue/Somewhere with impunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    Here's a little blurb from 2000 about Blackface and 20th century show biz culture with mentions of Al Jolson. I wouldn't call Jolson a major political activist--his main cause was always himself as he had a huge ego and craved the spotlight. Jolson is just a very dated entertainer. Rock a Bye Baby with a Dixie Melody is similariy dated song with roots in minstrel songs [[that often celebrated plantation life during slave days) as it sentimentalizes a very ugly culture--the old South. Certainly performing this song in the mid 60s when civil rights workers were being killed and abused was in bad taste, but the song was still a razzle dazzle show biz standard. But as with a number of aspects of the supremes Copa/nightclub/Vegas act, it was looking backwards, still cashing in a lucrative market, rather than looking forward. By the way, when was it removed from their act?

    http://www.musicals101.com/blackface.htm

  24. #24
    Lulu Guest
    Wow. This thread got REALLY ridiculous! I first heard "Rock-A-Bye" on Garland's seminal '61 album recorded at Carnegie Hall. A short time later, many of us [[some of you here) discovered Aretha via this same tune. I assure you Judy Garland was not a "racist" and neither was Al Jolson. I knew who Jolson was but wasn't aware of his relationship to this song until much later. I'm pretty sure Garland's renditions of this song [[along with "Swanee") and even Liza's "Mammy" were homages to their family's history in vaudeville. Hell, my own mother was in a minstrel show almost 60 years ago. To dismiss this entire schtick because it is now seen as "racist" is as absurd as me going into my antique store here in town and requesting that they remove all of the vintage Mammy dolls and Aunt Jemima advertisements! It's part of our collective history, pretty or not. I also found it interesting that a certain member used the song and this clip as yet another way to throw some shade Mr. Gordy's way, implying that his desire for mass appeal [[for his "star" which is what I'm sure was being insinuated) crossed the line. Sorry to burst your bubble but if John Hammond was over at Columbia "whoring out" his later-to-be-most-revered-soul-singer-ever to record this ditty while the "No Hit Supremes" were languishing in obscurity, what's the excuse there? Sorry - no argument here. Can we go back to hacking over "Funny Girl"?

  25. #25
    Lulu Guest
    Not to mention both Linda Eder AND Rufus Wainwright recorded the song in fairly recent homages to Judy Garland. I scoured many reviews of both works and not one writer went on a rant about this song...

  26. #26
    supremester Guest
    Exactly. What's next - polyester jock straps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by supremester View Post
    Aretha performed several Jolson tunes thru '67 - including Swanee and, my fave, You Made Me Love You, but I don't know if Rockabye was still in her act after she had hits at Atlantic. It was, I believe, her first top 40 single. I'll yell it out to her in June and see if she'll do it.
    She might do it! She sang it off and on up through the 70s and even into the 80s. The last time I saw her perform it was in 1986, when she sang it on her Showtime cable special, as well as on the special Motown on Showtime: The Tempts and Tops.

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    It's sad to see an entertainer like Al Jolson, who was Jewish and no doubt had to put up with anti-Semitic abuse, being accused of racism himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    It's sad to see an entertainer like Al Jolson, who was Jewish and no doubt had to put up with anti-Semitic abuse, being accused of racism himself.
    What is sad is that he chose to debase black people in order to become a star. It forced Black Americans to suffer and try to overcome these disgusting stereotypes for many, many years into the 20th Century. Everytime they applied for a job or sought to move into a neighborhood outside of the ghetto!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    What is sad is that he chose to debase black people in order to become a star. It forced Black Americans to suffer and try to overcome these disgusting stereotypes for many, many years into the 20th Century. Everytime they applied for a job or sought to move into a neighborhood outside of the ghetto!
    Do you give Al Jolson all the blame, or is there enough blame to go around to all the entertainers who started their careers in minstrel shows? Here is another big star of the twenties, Eddie Cantor, who is also in blackface. He was in minstrel, vaudeville, theatre, radio, movies and finally television where he had a monthly variety show on Sundays opposite Ed Sullivan.

  31. #31
    smark21 Guest
    Going by the replies and the defenses offered of Al Jolson and the accepted use of Blackface up to the mid 20th Century, I get the sense that many of you consider racism to just be when someone uses ugly slurs or consciously expresses or acts out hate toward African Americans. Racism is more than just your Klansmen and overt bigots. Racism and white supremacy are insidious; hegeomonic; they work their way into life in ways that can be invisible to many people in society so that they are accepted as “natural”, “normal”, “the accepted way of doing things”, “common sense”, etc. One can have good intentions, fine thoughts and admirable feelings for members of another group yet still be or occasionally reveal a racist or supremacist.

    Remember back in 2008 during the primaries when Joe Biden complemented Barack Obama for being “articulate for an African American” and the blowback he received for such a condescending statement? Biden meant well, but in his good intentions he put down an entire group of people.

    In the last few years the concept of microaggressions has taken route and Biden’s remark is a good example of a microaggression. Microaggressions can be used against any group of people regardless of race, gender, class, nationality, sexual orientation, or religious faith. Some microaggressors may mean well but reveal their bigotry/ignorance in their good intentions; others are more overt and revel in it. To learn more about microaggressions: http://www.microaggressions.com/

    Blackface performers came out of the minstrel show tradition that took off in popularity after the Civil War. White people corked themselves up and performed songs and routines, many of which expressed a nostalgia for plantation/slavery days. Many of these people may have been opposed to slavery, but they still considered Blacks to be inferior in a childish kind of way. The messages in these shows and their songs helped spread the myth and whitewash the truth of the horrors of slavery. There are still far too many people in this country who don’t to deal with the realities of slavery as well as Jim Crow and seek refuge in lies and myths about good masters and happy slaves and freedmen who yearn to return to their master on the plantation. Swanee River/Old Folks Back Home was written by Stephen Foster, who supported abolistionist causes, but that didn’t stop him from writing a song about a freed slave who yearned to go back to the old Master’s plantation. The song is catchy, the words are very sentimental and it’s that sentiment that sweetens the ugly message of the song. How many of the white families who used to sing along to that song in their parlors swallowed the story of the song unthinkingly and let it influence their view of slavery? Many I suspect. Yet another example of the insidious effect of white supremacist ideology which can be more effective when delivered in a sweet, catchy tuneful matter rather than in an ugly way.



    The popularity of minstrel shows established Blackface as an accepted way for performers to make up. And it wasn’t just Jolson and Cantor and their vaudeville imitators who corked up; it was expected of Black variety show performers as well. They had to cork up as well if they wanted to work as entertainers. Bert Williams is a prominent example. He had to cork up and he had to play the stereotypes. But he also broke ground and opened doors thanks to his talent. To learn more and see pics of him in cork: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Williams

    But just because Black performers had to cork doesn’t make it right. Yes, we must realize and accept on some level that it was part of the times, and in comparison to lynching and sharecropping conditions and harsh segregations, blackface performers are relatively mild on the offense scale. Even if all Blackface performers [[regardless of race) were trying to honor African American culture by corking up and performing minstrel songs, be advised that not everyone in the audience left the music hall with heightened appreciation for African Americans. Entertainment can reinforce prejudices as well as help knock down the wall of prejudices—depending on the performer, the audience, the material and a whole host of other factors.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    Going by the replies and the defenses offered of Al Jolson and the accepted use of Blackface up to the mid 20th Century, I get the sense that many of you consider racism to just be when someone uses ugly slurs or consciously expresses or acts out hate toward African Americans. Racism is more than just your Klansmen and overt bigots. Racism and white supremacy are insidious; hegeomonic; they work their way into life in ways that can be invisible to many people in society so that they are accepted as “natural”, “normal”, “the accepted way of doing things”, “common sense”, etc. One can have good intentions, fine thoughts and admirable feelings for members of another group yet still be or occasionally reveal a racist or supremacist.

    Remember back in 2008 during the primaries when Joe Biden complemented Barack Obama for being “articulate for an African American” and the blowback he received for such a condescending statement? Biden meant well, but in his good intentions he put down an entire group of people.

    In the last few years the concept of microaggressions has taken route and Biden’s remark is a good example of a microaggression. Microaggressions can be used against any group of people regardless of race, gender, class, nationality, sexual orientation, or religious faith. Some microaggressors may mean well but reveal their bigotry/ignorance in their good intentions; others are more overt and revel in it. To learn more about microaggressions: http://www.microaggressions.com/

    Blackface performers came out of the minstrel show tradition that took off in popularity after the Civil War. White people corked themselves up and performed songs and routines, many of which expressed a nostalgia for plantation/slavery days. Many of these people may have been opposed to slavery, but they still considered Blacks to be inferior in a childish kind of way. The messages in these shows and their songs helped spread the myth and whitewash the truth of the horrors of slavery. There are still far too many people in this country who don’t to deal with the realities of slavery as well as Jim Crow and seek refuge in lies and myths about good masters and happy slaves and freedmen who yearn to return to their master on the plantation. Swanee River/Old Folks Back Home was written by Stephen Foster, who supported abolistionist causes, but that didn’t stop him from writing a song about a freed slave who yearned to go back to the old Master’s plantation. The song is catchy, the words are very sentimental and it’s that sentiment that sweetens the ugly message of the song. How many of the white families who used to sing along to that song in their parlors swallowed the story of the song unthinkingly and let it influence their view of slavery? Many I suspect. Yet another example of the insidious effect of white supremacist ideology which can be more effective when delivered in a sweet, catchy tuneful matter rather than in an ugly way.



    The popularity of minstrel shows established Blackface as an accepted way for performers to make up. And it wasn’t just Jolson and Cantor and their vaudeville imitators who corked up; it was expected of Black variety show performers as well. They had to cork up as well if they wanted to work as entertainers. Bert Williams is a prominent example. He had to cork up and he had to play the stereotypes. But he also broke ground and opened doors thanks to his talent. To learn more and see pics of him in cork: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Williams

    But just because Black performers had to cork doesn’t make it right. Yes, we must realize and accept on some level that it was part of the times, and in comparison to lynching and sharecropping conditions and harsh segregations, blackface performers are relatively mild on the offense scale. Even if all Blackface performers [[regardless of race) were trying to honor African American culture by corking up and performing minstrel songs, be advised that not everyone in the audience left the music hall with heightened appreciation for African Americans. Entertainment can reinforce prejudices as well as help knock down the wall of prejudices—depending on the performer, the audience, the material and a whole host of other factors.
    Excellent post Smark and thank you!

    Marv

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    What is sad is that he chose to debase black people in order to become a star. It forced Black Americans to suffer and try to overcome these disgusting stereotypes for many, many years into the 20th Century. Everytime they applied for a job or sought to move into a neighborhood outside of the ghetto!
    What is sadder is that you, Marv, choose to debase all kinds of people ~ white, black, gay, female ~ very publicly, in a much more enlightened time.

    Why?

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    Smark, yours is the definitive post of this thread. I agree with your post and you made your points and explanations without calling some of the great entertainers of their time racists. As society changed, these entertainers had to change too or have no career. I'm old enough to remember Eddie Cantor on TV in the 50's, but he was never in blackface. It wasn't acceptable then.

    Al Jolson died in 1950 and never appeared on TV. But he was a popular star right up to his dying day. During WWII, he entertained the troops - never in blackface. He , too, had given it up. So these stars did keep pace with society and changed with the times.

    You mentioned Bert Williams in your post. I remember seeing Ben Vereen in concert and he paid a tribute to Bert. On stage, he put on blackface and then sang NOBODY. The segment was sad and poignant. He also did it on TV. But there must have been protests who didn't understand what Ben was trying to do, because he eventually took it out of his act, and after a search on Google, it can't be found to view. [[Just to download and purchase).

    Thanks again for your post. Reading it makes reading some of the other stuff on this board tolerable.

  35. #35
    supremester Guest
    While true, coming from someone who, publicly, suggested gay people "deserve" HIV for their lifestyle choice, that's a pip!

    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    What is sad is that he chose to debase black people in order to become a star. It forced Black Americans to suffer and try to overcome these disgusting stereotypes for many, many years into the 20th Century. Everytime they applied for a job or sought to move into a neighborhood outside of the ghetto!

  36. #36
    supremester Guest
    My oldest girl is African American and worked for a national retail chain with an unwritten rule concerning "blacks trying to return things." She couldn't believe such a policy exists, let alone told to HER.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Smark, yours is the definitive post of this thread. I agree with your post and you made your points and explanations without calling some of the great entertainers of their time racists. As society changed, these entertainers had to change too or have no career. I'm old enough to remember Eddie Cantor on TV in the 50's, but he was never in blackface. It wasn't acceptable then.

    Al Jolson died in 1950 and never appeared on TV. But he was a popular star right up to his dying day. During WWII, he entertained the troops - never in blackface. He , too, had given it up. So these stars did keep pace with society and changed with the times.

    You mentioned Bert Williams in your post. I remember seeing Ben Vereen in concert and he paid a tribute to Bert. On stage, he put on blackface and then sang NOBODY. The segment was sad and poignant. He also did it on TV. But there must have been protests who didn't understand what Ben was trying to do, because he eventually took it out of his act, and after a search on Google, it can't be found to view. [[Just to download and purchase).

    Thanks again for your post. Reading it makes reading some of the other stuff on this board tolerable.
    From what I recall, Ben Vereen did his Bert Williams tribute during the inaugural celebration concert for President Reagan. Unfortunately, the segment was edited badly, and Vereen was criticized heavily for appearing in blackface before the new President. This probably was when he took it out of his act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    From what I recall, Ben Vereen did his Bert Williams tribute during the inaugural celebration concert for President Reagan. Unfortunately, the segment was edited badly, and Vereen was criticized heavily for appearing in blackface before the new President. This probably was when he took it out of his act.
    Here's the article from Jet Magazine at the time. He created firestorm of negativity for himself. I remember this:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=MLc...gazine&f=false

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    Further research into the "REAL" Al Jolson, led me to this :

    http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearne..._in_blackface/

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    Having seen Ben perform the whole Bert Williams piece live in concert, I can say that it is a beautiful theatrical piece. I don't know why he would have wanted to do the piece at Reagan's inauguration. But , I just read the Jet article and it explains what Ben's intention was to do the piece there. But the TV audience did not get to see the second part and without seeing the whole thing, people were offended and Ben's intent was misunderstood. I wish it were available to see on line. I can only go by my memory, but I remember being immensely moved by his performance and what he was trying to tell his audience.

    Read the article in JET that Marv posted

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Having seen Ben perform the whole Bert Williams piece live in concert, I can say that it is a beautiful theatrical piece. I don't know why he would have wanted to do the piece at Reagan's inauguration. But , I just read the Jet article and it explains what Ben's intention was to do the piece there. But the TV audience did not get to see the second part and without seeing the whole thing, people were offended and Ben's intent was misunderstood. I wish it were available to see on line. I can only go by my memory, but I remember being immensely moved by his performance and what he was trying to tell his audience.

    Read the article in JET that Marv posted
    You are suppose to know your audience! That way there will be no room for misunderstanding. The whole incident was purely disgusting. Ben Vereen is an intelligent man from what I know of him. Why on Earth would he do something like that is beyond me!

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    Read the JET article that you posted. The entire article. It continues on page 60. It explains why he did it, and what Reagan's daughter thought about it. The TV audience did not see the whole piece, so it was difficult for them to form a valid opinion and protested instead. Kinda like a theatre critic walking out of a play after ACT ONE and writing a review on something that he only half saw

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Read the JET article that you posted. The entire article. It continues on page 60. It explains why he did it, and what Reagan's daughter thought about it. The TV audience did not see the whole piece, so it was difficult for them to form a valid opinion and protested instead. Kinda like a theatre critic walking out of a play after ACT ONE and writing a review on something that he only half saw
    I can promise you this! He could have done that performance for 2 hours and had the thing broadcast in it's entirety [[sp?) and the response would have been the same from the black community!

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    Did you also read the "additional" information on Al Jolson here:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearne..._in_blackface/

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Having seen Ben perform the whole Bert Williams piece live in concert, I can say that it is a beautiful theatrical piece. I don't know why he would have wanted to do the piece at Reagan's inauguration. But , I just read the Jet article and it explains what Ben's intention was to do the piece there. But the TV audience did not get to see the second part and without seeing the whole thing, people were offended and Ben's intent was misunderstood. I wish it were available to see on line. I can only go by my memory, but I remember being immensely moved by his performance and what he was trying to tell his audience.

    Read the article in JET that Marv posted
    It was Reagan's inauguration. That should be reason enough for this "performance". I'm sure Ron and Nancy would have loved to see an "Antebellum" wedding along the lines of the one Paula Deen dreamed up and discussed.

    Here's a little light reading: http://reaganandracism.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Did you also read the "additional" information on Al Jolson here:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearne..._in_blackface/
    I thought we were now discussing Ben Vereen, but if we are still on JOLSON, as I said in an earlier post, I read "JOLSON: The Legend Comes To Life" by Herbert G Goldman. It tells all, the good the bad and the ugly, warts and all. So nothing negative said about him surprises me. And there is much to say that is negative.

    Let me bring the topic back to The Supremes and bring some joy to your life at the same time by saying that JOLSON was probably a DIVA and a bitch and the Diana Ross of his generation.

    FEEL GOOD ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    I thought we were now discussing Ben Vereen, but if we are still on JOLSON, as I said in an earlier post, I read "JOLSON: The Legend Comes To Life" by Herbert G Goldman. It tells all, the good the bad and the ugly, warts and all. So nothing negative said about him surprises me. And there is much to say that is negative.

    Let me bring the topic back to The Supremes and bring some joy to your life at the same time by saying that JOLSON was probably a DIVA and a bitch and the Diana Ross of his generation.

    FEEL GOOD ?
    Whatever you say. I am just about the truth! Unfortunately, that usually does not come out in it's purest form until after the person's death.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    I thought we were now discussing Ben Vereen, but if we are still on JOLSON, as I said in an earlier post, I read "JOLSON: The Legend Comes To Life" by Herbert G Goldman. It tells all, the good the bad and the ugly, warts and all. So nothing negative said about him surprises me. And there is much to say that is negative.

    Let me bring the topic back to The Supremes and bring some joy to your life at the same time by saying that JOLSON was probably a DIVA and a bitch and the Diana Ross of his generation.

    FEEL GOOD ?
    Speaking of the "b-word" [[I won't waste the typing on the full word), looky what I found today [[check out comment #1)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2KYDao8j6w&sns=fb

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    Marv, the offended. LOL.

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