The 70s Miracles

[Ryon6]

I was listening to one of The 70s Miracles Greatest Hits cd and was wondering did they suffer the same fate as the 70s Supremes. Motown did not push them as they were a great group - "Love Machine" "Do It Baby" "Don'tcha Love It" and other wonderful, excellent album tracks. Some folks have accused Diana of sabotaging the career of the 70s Supremes, did Smokey do the same?

[marv2]

I was listening to one of The 70s Miracles Greatest Hits cd and was wondering did they suffer the same fate as the 70s Supremes. Motown did not push them as they were a great group - "Love Machine" "Do It Baby" "Don'tcha Love It" and other wonderful, excellent album tracks. Some folks have accused Diana of sabotaging the career of the 70s Supremes, did Smokey do the same?

and don't forget, "What Is A Heart Good For?"! I don't know [[if Smokey did anything to sabotage the Miracles career......he was ONLY a Vice President at Motown!). I do know that in 1972 he made this big declaration that he was tired of performing, being on the road away from his family, etc,etc yada, yada ,da hut! LOL! He said that he preferred to focus more on his executive duties at Motown and on his home life so he was leaving after their great big farewell tour [[the one where they wore hot pants outfits, ugh! LOL!).

But then guess what happened? Smokey went and help the Miracles audition and find his replacement so things looked pretty permanent that Smokey was out of the Miracles for good! Now wait......here comes the good part, hehehehehehehe.......

Exactly or close to exactly a year later, in 1973 Smokey records and releases his own solo album and is doing what? Back on TV and in front of concert audiences singing and performing!!!! YEAH Smokey! Now some old timers some how got the idea that what Smokey did was a real slick way of ditching your group and having it appear that there were no hard feelings. I don't know, but that is what I was hearing years and years ago...... You make the call!

[marv2]

I just ordered a greatest hits package by the "70's Miracles" from Amazon a couple of nights ago.

[supremester]

I don't believe Diana sabotaged The 70's Supremes - she talked about them on The Tonight Show in 1975. They were no threat to her. Why would Smokey sabotage The Miracles? What did either of them have to gain? I do believe it's possible that Smokey played a little chicanery with his departure - but with all the flack Miss Ross got, it made sense. Both groups had big hits without their previous stars. If Diana & Smokey wanted to sabotage, they'd have done it.

I was listening to one of The 70s Miracles Greatest Hits cd and was wondering did they suffer the same fate as the 70s Supremes. Motown did not push them as they were a great group - "Love Machine" "Do It Baby" "Don'tcha Love It" and other wonderful, excellent album tracks. Some folks have accused Diana of sabotaging the career of the 70s Supremes, did Smokey do the same?

[captainjames]

Honestly, why would Smokey care ? He wrote the majority of those songs that he was lead on. If anything it would have been great if he could have wrote a hit on them after he left. As far as Diana was concerned she was busy making babies and movies. No one was going to have as many hits as she had with the Supremes on Motown. She knew and they knew it.

[soulster]

The only 70s Miracles album that I have heard is "City Of Angels", and that is because I found a vinyl copy of it for $1 at a used record store. So, I bought it and did a needledrop of it. Then, I sat down to seriously listen to it, and, while I found the stark frankness and ambitious production of it surprising, particularly for a Motown album, I found the album, as a whole, to be lackluster. performance-wise.

I do like their two hit singles of the era "Do It Baby" and "Love Machine".

[milven]

The only 70s Miracles that I have heard is "City Of Angels.

That was their second LP. Their first one was Renaissance which, until recently, was a lost classic. I think it was recently released on CD for the first time. Smokey and Diana seem to get blamed for dissing or helping kill the new Supremes and new Miracles. But, I remember Smokey hosting the Midnight Special and introducing the new Miracles to sing their first single "What Is Heart Good For". It probably would have been a hit, but for some reason it was withdrawn by Motown and replaced with a ballad called Don't Let It End [[Til You Let It Begin). Critics say that it is the weakest song on what eventually became a classic album. It was my favorite cut on the album and today is one of my all time favorites.

Give a listen to Don't Let It End. If critics think this is the weakest cut, imagine how great the rest of the LP sounds. Still love this song

[gordy_hunk]

I agree - 'don't let it end' is such a beautiful song and well executed by the Miracles. The whole LP - recently released on a CD with the LP 'do it baby' - is well worth buying.

I remember buying 'City of Angels' and thought this was an amazingly good LP - not a poor track on it.

I've no idea why the Miracles weren't successful after Smokey left. Certainly in the UK, the Miracles were given promotion, but this didn't generate sales. Sometimes though it is a comforting thought that I love records which the general public never knew about - and 'Renaissance' and 'City of Angels' are just two fine examples.

[supremester]

I love this album. It's difficult for people to accept a totally new sound from such an iconic group. Like The Supremes, it's not that the new Miracles lacked talent - they just had been around a long time and newer, fresher groups took their place. Us Motown nuts still thought of the new groups as part of the family, but to the public, without Smokey or Miss Ross, those groups were over. The successes they had were deserved, but didn't generate a loyal following without the huge stars they had. Fast forward 40 years: both Smokey & Miss Ross are still thrilling audiences and continue to be huge draws. It's tough on any group to lose a draw like that. The Tempts were lucky to get Dennis, but still had Paul & Eddie. Even with the incredible Dennis, once Paul & Eddie were gone, so was I.

[RossHolloway]

I always thought that it was very strange that both Smokey and Berry Gordy would let the Miracles leave the Motown label in 1977 for Columbia Records. How could they let the cornerstone of the Motown Sound just up and leave after all those years. Can someone explain this to me??

[snakepit]

1977...there was no 'Motown Sound@

Times and trends move on.....groups in lounge suits were , by and large, dead.,

Not that it bothered me....I love the 70s Miracles tracks.

[soulster]

Give a listen to Don't Let It End. If critics think this is the weakest cut, imagine how great the rest of the LP sounds. Still love this song

I found it boring.

[Ryon6]

thanks everyone for the great response. WOW Soulster, "Don't Let It End" is a great song and you found it boring?

[roger]

Hmmm ....

Sometimes I wonder whether I was living on the same planet as you guys in the 1970's ..

"Love Machine" was a #1[[pop) hit in the U.S. and a #3 hit in the U.K. .. if that is not beng successful I don't know what is ....

Oops sorry, it only got to #5 on the Billboard R&B listings .. a complete failure ...

Roger.

[marv2]

Hmmm ....

Sometimes I wonder whether I was living on the same planet as you guys in the 1970's ..

"Love Machine" was a #1[[pop) hit in the U.S. and a #3 hit in the U.K. .. if that is not beng successful I don't know what is ....

Oops sorry, it only got to #5 on the Billboard R&B listings .. a complete failure ...

Roger.

Good observation Roger! LOL!!!!!

[skooldem1]

Yes, I also don't understand this talk of them not being pushed. Not only was "Love Machine" a big hit, but wasn't it the biggest hit ever, for the Miracles?

[Ryon6]

Exactly skoolem but after Love Machine, nothing else happened for them at Motown. They had some great album tracks that weren't pushed such as "I Didn't Realize The Show Was Over", "I Love You Secretly", "Nowhere To Go", "You Are Love" and "You Need A Miracle" all excellent songs. Their debut album to me, could've rivaled 'Right On' as an coming out party for William "Billy" Griffith. And I realize Smokey did not sabotage the group, I was just trying to get a response or responses from the forum, that's all.

[REDHOT]

This is soooo funny,because Love Machine was The Miracles biggest hit,in Miracles history,even Smokey Robinson and The Miracles never had a hit,bigger then Love Machine,with Billy Griffin on lead.

[midnightman]

The '70s Miracles didn't catch on in the same way the '70s Supremes and the '70s Temptations didn't: the Motown sound just wasn't as hip as it used to be. The reason why Marvin, Diana and Stevie succeeded was, you have to understand, Motown was mostly a label for vocal groups and they made the majority of what became "the sound of young America". Once things changed and they got older, many who used to buy their records moved on to solo artists like Marvin and Stevie or other more hipper groups like the O'Jays and Labelle. Even with promotion, the Miracles would've succeeded but it just wasn't the same, just like it wasn't the same with the Supremes no matter what lineup they ended up with.

Plus you can't say the Miracles didn't try. Out of all the '60s Motown acts, they were the only ones to get a huge hit [["Love Machine") while other Motown acts who were huge in the '60s didn't just get that hit.

[Ryon6]

Just because "Love Machine" was a number one pop hit and the biggest hit of their career, doesn't mean Motown promoted the group. I think that once you have a number one, you would strive again for another. That's all I'm saying.

[soulster]

Yes, I also don't understand this talk of them not being pushed. Not only was "Love Machine" a big hit, but wasn't it the biggest hit ever, for the Miracles?

I agree. You can't force the public to like or buy something even if you think it's worthy. "Love Machine" was indeed their biggest 70s hit, but the album it came from topped out at #29 on the Soul chart, even higher than it did on the pop chart. And, you know that if "Love Machine" was a #1 hit, Motown did all they could to push the album.

Now, if the album had had more hit material, it probably would have made a better showing. But, it was very controversial with its taboo subject matter. C'mon, now, people! In 1976, you couldn't expect an album with a song like "Ain't Nobody Straight In L.A." to actually help an album. I suspect it hurt its sales potential bigtime, and Motown and the group knew it. But, Motown let them have their artistic statement. Getting away from that, the album was too smooth and slick. There were no songs other than "Love Machine" that I could hear on constant rotation on the radio, and i'm usually pretty good at picking out potential radio-friendly singles. The songs mostly had no memorable hooks. That smooth stuff was for Smokey. People wanted to dance in 1976. They also wanted the FUNK!

[soulster]

1977...there was no 'Motown Sound@

Times and trends move on.....groups in lounge suits were , by and large, dead.,

Exactly! Lookit who was huge in 1976: Ohio Players, Earth, Wind & Fire, Commodores, Parliament, The Brothers Johnson, The Isley Brothers...even The Rolling Stones got airtime on Black radio in 1976. The R&B crooners like The Dramatics and The Floaters would be back later on, but in 1976, it was about the FUNK! Give up the funk!

In the 70s, the youngbloods started making waves. The Isley Brothers were the best example of that. When the two younger brothers with one cousin joined the older three, their sound exploded with the funk of hard rock, just like George Clinton and his P-funk stable showed 'em how. Even the Jacksons wanted some of it, so they had to leave Motown to get it. Stevie Wonder was fortunate. He had enough clout to so what he wanted under the Motown umbrella. Same with the Commodores.

The problem with Motown is that they were late to the party, and was still too conservative. They let the Commodores do their thing, but though Rick James was too out there for them. It's a wonder how he got away with what he did at the label, singing about weed and sex, smoking joints on the covers, dressing like a prostitute. And, more, Motown was laser-focused on disco in the 70s. They really pushed their artiste toward it, even when bands like EWF and Ohio Players were playing stadiums like their rock brethren. P-funk had space ships on stage. EWF suspended Larry Dunn in mid-air, and music was still good! Motown acts didn't do any of that.

[soulster]

thanks everyone for the great response. WOW Soulster, "Don't Let It End" is a great song and you found it boring?

Yup. Turned it off half-way through. No energy in it. Nothing dramatic or exciting. I may be in my 50s, but I still want some fire in my music.

[Bokiluis]

The Miracles also had two more Top 10 R&B albums with "Do it Baby" and "Don't Cha Love It". During the 60s and 70s, it was very possible for an album to sell briskly on the R&B Album charts. And because Motown was inconsistent with their RIAA certifications, we cannot be sure if either album reached Gold level sales. Those were great albums as well. And the fact that they had moderate success with only two Columbia albums and did not release anymore material, indicates that Motown did indeed promote and market their albums as well or better than any label could.

As far as Motown letting The Miracles jump ship, Berry has stated that by the 70s the label wars were in full force and the majors were after their artists. Sad, but, true, even The Temptations got lost at Atlantic because the majors relegated them to R&B promotion only* despite a track record of nearly 15/Top 20 albums on the Billboard Top 200. Most of the Motown acts that did go to the majors were treated as R&B acts exclusively with little crossover marketing and/or promotion. They soon realized how Motown treated them as top notch mainstream artists.

[[* There is absolutely nothing to be apologize for being marketed and promoted to only the R&B marketplace. James Brown, Luther Vandross, etc. sold tonnage to that audience. But it is shortsighted not to promote an act, with a solid track record at pop radio, to neglect marketing/promoting them at that format).

[Ryon6]

Loving the feedback, thanks everyone.

[midnightman]

Just because "Love Machine" was a number one pop hit and the biggest hit of their career, doesn't mean Motown promoted the group. I think that once you have a number one, you would strive again for another. That's all I'm saying.

I got cha. I was just saying that they did kinda pull it off even if it's true Motown didn't promote them much [[and they didn't).

[arr&bee]

It's funny you should mention the[70's]miracles,as i was just thinking about the wonderful[if you're ever in the neighborhood]like some of you i too was thinking doom for the miracles without smokey until two things happened,the first the very,very underrated album[renissance]and the second an album that i passed by for months before buying it for a dollar at woolworth's[the miracles greatest hits]the one without smokey,billy griffith was excellent on those tunes and so was the writing,maybe they weren't being promoted but the writing didn't drop...[i love you secretly]from marvin gaye[are you kidding me?][take it all]smokey himself couldn't have sung it any better,as for smokey not wanting them to succeed[hogwash]as for him going back on the road he got bored and the money was good...i love the miracles with and without smokey.

[midnightman]

I think "I Love You Secretly" was the best Miracles song ever... no I'm not kidding. Marvin wrote and composed his a@# off with that song.

[marv2]

This is the first single I remember from the "New" Miracles. It was rather nice. They performed it on local Detroit television at the time of it's release. I bought the album months later and I think it was a more than decent effort.:

[soulster]

The Miracles also had two more Top 10 R&B albums with "Do it Baby" and "Don't Cha Love It". During the 60s and 70s, it was very possible for an album to sell briskly on the R&B Album charts. And because Motown was inconsistent with their RIAA certifications, we cannot be sure if either album reached Gold level sales. Those were great albums as well. And the fact that they had moderate success with only two Columbia albums and did not release anymore material, indicates that Motown did indeed promote and market their albums as well or better than any label could.

As far as Motown letting The Miracles jump ship, Berry has stated that by the 70s the label wars were in full force and the majors were after their artists. Sad, but, true, even The Temptations got lost at Atlantic because the majors relegated them to R&B promotion only* despite a track record of nearly 15/Top 20 albums on the Billboard Top 200. Most of the Motown acts that did go to the majors were treated as R&B acts exclusively with little crossover marketing and/or promotion. They soon realized how Motown treated them as top notch mainstream artists.

[[* There is absolutely nothing to be apologize for being marketed and promoted to only the R&B marketplace. James Brown, Luther Vandross, etc. sold tonnage to that audience. But it is shortsighted not to promote an act, with a solid track record at pop radio, to neglect marketing/promoting them at that format).

Larkin Arnold ran The Capitol Black record division in the mid-late 70s, and CBS, Black division in the early 80s. His philosophy was to market Black artists to Black radio, and to steer them away from pop. That was a big negative. At Capitol, artists like Natalie Cole and Tavares, specifically, were doing quite well being marketed to both pop and Black radio. But, when he took over, he separated them into a Black division, and those artists lost a lot of pop sales. Those two artists should have been bigger in the 70s than they were, despite their scattered pop top 10 showings.

When Arnold took over at CBS, the same thing happened, except, he dictated that the artists would do Black music. That upset Denise Williams, who was doing quite well being marketed to the pop market. In fact, she classified herself as pop. When Arnold came along, he made her work with Black artists with a slant to Black music. I suspect that the same thing happened with Cheryl Lynn. After the first two albums, she no longer worked with Toto, the musicians and producers she saw her biggest successes with.

Atlantic was a slightly different case. Ever since they became part of a conglomerate in the late 60s, and Ahmet Ertegun shifted his focus to rock, the R&B artists, who once felt like they were part of a big family, were suddenly treated like workers punching a clock. This also upset former executive/prodcucer Jerry Wexler to the point where he quit. It was the rare R&B artist that Ertegun showed favor to, like Chic and the Average White Band. And, actually, it was Steve Greenberg at Atklantic, who let Chic produce anyone they wanted.

Labels like MCA, Elektra, and Warner Brothers were even colder to R&B, and only signed them because they saw them as a "fad". MCA was a special case because they bought ABC Records, who already had a sizable, and historical R&B roster. Polygram [[Mercury, Polydor) was just strange, but they did right by R&B music.

But, I digress...

[johnjeb]

I bought and loved the first three Miracles' albums with Billy Griffin. I thought they were better than some of the last few albums they did with Smokey.

Although Love Machine was good, I wasn't crazy about that album or Power of Love. Love Breeze on Columbia and the recently released on CD, The Miracles, on David Nathan's label, are not my cup of tea. These albums with a theme or message fell flat for me.

[arr&bee]

I saw them perform[wigs an lashes]on a local show,cool song.