Let it snow,let it snow,let it snow

[westgrandboulevard]

I think you're being humorous, but it's also interesting, as I seem to see it a little differently.

Mary's career in showbiz has not had the highs that Diana has experienced, but she is a seasoned performer, and somewhat of a late bloomer. In the earlier years, she didn't have the overt confidence, the vision, and the consistency to make hers an exceptional career much earlier in her life, except as part of a very famous group. That is true of almost all of us, in all walks of life.

I think Mary watches Diana as an 'older sister' figure, and has learned a lot, most significantly from her own efforts.

I always felt that, of all the wonderful female talent at Motown, Diana's strongest competitor within the company was standing right next to her on stage. Diana knew it, but Mary didn't.

That doesn't justify rewriting history, and it's always too late for many things for all of us....but that's just the road we took, to reach where we find ourselves today.

[Jerry Oz]

I think Mary knew. When Diana was singing songs that Mary could sing better, it probably meant less to her before the Affair. Then, things probably cleared themselves up in her [[and Flo's) mind that any shared dreams they had as schoolgirls were going to be altered. We all have a sense of fairness and to feel betrayed by a loved one is a tough pill to swallow.

With that being said, I often wonder if artists who have grievances to air in their latter years should not ask themselves a simple question: Knowing what you know now, would you do it again? From Little Richard to James Brown to Mary Wilson to Marvin Gaye and George Clinton and many others, the harshest game in town has proven time and again to be the music industry. Lessons are learned by losing millions and finding out that jealousy is where you least expect to find it.

Would you honestly prefer to live the life you were going to live in hindsight? Little Richard unknown and boxed in as he preached, never expressing himself with unprecedented freedom to the world? George Clinton, a barber? Mary Wilson, [[perhaps) a housewife in Detoit? There is a price to pay for your ticket. Typically, those who complain [[rightly) about being robbed and stabbed in the back still have had experiences that they never dreamed they'd have before being discovered. There is a price to pay for education and as often as not, that price is paid in tears.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, it's a story which applies to all of us but, in show business, it is just played to a much wider audience than the rest of us have.

In any human activity, there will be somebody who will get ahead, and then stays there.

Somebody else, who is following the same course, then feels they have been beaten, and unfairly. Easy to understand why they could begin to feel that way. Not so easy to understand why they settle just for thinking that way, long past the point when it is justifed.

Of the two survivors, all the time Mary needed Diana, looking to her for a lead, while feeling maybe she could do it too, in her way, but just not quite sure how. In turn, Diana was looking away to somebody else, to give her a lead too, simply because she had to....

Nothing complicated about it, I suppose. Just hard on someone when they need and want to hold on to what they know and value, but are struggling to pay the bills. When there is money in our bank account, we can all afford to feel magnanimous about others and the past.

[Jerry Oz]

Perspective is funny. Sometimes people have been set up to succeed and blow their opportunity, thinking that by having a hit record today, that the hits and money will keep coming. When they blow yesterday's earnings and have nothing left, they look to a friend or relative who handled the same money and opportunity a little more wisely and expect to receive help from them.

I didn't help you spend your money, so it's curious as to how I'm "turning my back on you" by not letting you waste mine as well. We will never know the full truth of someone else's life, but I suspect that neither lady was a saint or villain, except in the eyes of the other. You only have one chance to live your life, so it's best to do it right the first time. [[I meant to write it that way, BTW. Dramatic license...)

[westgrandboulevard]

That's right, neither was a saint or a villain. Just coping with her own situation, and her own feelings, best way she knew how, yet appearing to the world as being, for many years, in identical circumstances to the other.

[Jerry Oz]

"She owes me! She would be nothing without my help."
"She's trying to take what I earned!"

Funny thing is, if you flipped either into the other's role in their drama, the story would be the same. I suspect that the SDF disciples of Mary would be Diana fans just as Diana's fans would love Mary rather than Diana had it been "Mary Wilson and the Supremes".

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, because it's all in their own minds. So much easier to give attention to Diana, Mary etc, rather than themselves, and make a correction in perception. It would give their lives the interest it lacks.

On the subject of circumstances, how did you find yourself at SDF?

[Jerry Oz]

*** TMI Alert [[Be careful of asking a wordy person a question like that!) ***

One of my favorite bands in the late '70s and early '80s was GQ. I Googled the lead singer, Emanuel Raheim LeBlanc a couple of years ago to see what happened since I stopped following the band [[the information superhighway is the greatest thing going!!!!!!!!) and one of the sites that popped up was to a 10 year old discussion about him on the Soulful Detroit forum. That made me curious as to who was discussing music that I liked and lo and behold, I landed here. I joined the first day that I discovered it.

[westgrandboulevard]

Before the days of the information superhighway, you'd have had to be sat down next to someone knowledgeable, to learn anything of any interest......

I was following what was happening [['lurking') on SDF for some years, following the demise of the Motown Bulletin Board.

I registered when the website was upgraded in August 2010, [[as everybody seemed to be starting afresh) and made my first post some time after that.

I can see that you followed onto SDF exactly 18 months later.

[Jerry Oz]

I only belong to a few other forums and I only frequent one other on any sort of a regular basis. This is the only site that tends to relax me when I visit. Especially at work. Good Lord knows that sometimes I need to take a 15 minute vacation and that's pretty much what this site does to my normal working day.

Speaking of the web, I'm of the opinion that having so much information has made us all dumber than we'd otherwise be. I used to purchase pre-season [[American) football and basketball yearbooks. After reading about my two favorite teams, I got the value of my $2.75 investment by learning about all of the other teams. Now, I can sit down and waste an entire day reading about my favorite teams, so I know very little about the teams I don't follow.

I have a much better knowledge base of the things that interest me at the expense of my general knowledge. I honestly think that the internet has made us dumb by allowing us to be smarter.

[westgrandboulevard]

If you mean that the internet has made us all more aware, but without being more knowledgeable, then I'm inclined to agree,

My awareness is wider, and the potential for furthering that seems endless, but my knowledge is not necessarily any deeper.

[Jerry Oz]

I'm just saying that after five minutes of sports, you have the rest of the news broadcast to watch on television and that's how you generally learn the rest of the news. As if you can pick out 12 stories in a world with 6+ billion people... But now that we can determine "the news" ourselves, I believe most people gravitate toward the things that interest them instead of the things that they probably should otherwise know. That's why you have fringe groups popping up everywhere. The conservatives are preaching to the choir, as are the progressives, the nationalists, the xenophobes, and the radical fundamentalists. Nobody needs another point of view because their point of view is the right one and they have thousands of "friends" willing to support that view.

The world has never been more wide open or closed off than it is and it will get worse before it improves. I love the internet, but it is both a wonderful and a dangerous thing. What's a better way to either look to the sky or hide your head in the sand? Let's be honest, if we don't know it in 2014, it's either because the government is hiding it or because we just don't really want to know about it.

[westgrandboulevard]

Given the chance to avoid anything which doesn't seem to directly involve them, I believe most people will avoid it.

[Jerry Oz]

Just as if given the taste of medicine, most won't take it. It's just human nature. And I lump myself in with those that I criticize. I don't want to know how many dark things have to happen to keep the light on in my world just as I don't want to know what happens to the parts of the cow that get thrown away, so long as I can eat my steak. Figuratively speaking, of course.

[westgrandboulevard]

I come from farming stock and the country, and was close to the production of meat and food when young, so I'm perhaps more aware than many about it all.

I learned that livestock [[and pets) have a right to be treated with dignity and respect [[e.g. feeding them before I feed myself), and i enjoyed learning about the different terms used to describe them during their lives.

Children should be taught all about the lives of the domestic animals which produce their food, and also the production of arable crops - but I abhor the way livestock is now often described as being 'a boy' or 'a girl'.

[144man]

I hate the way gender is used as a substitute for sex. [Inverted commas omitted for comedic effect]

[westgrandboulevard]

Always best to laugh, as and when we can, on issues which annoy, if not even more.

I do feel a little guilty if I suspect I'm taking it all a bit seriously but, very often,.......

[Jerry Oz]

It's sad that we can no longer laugh with each other over those issues for fear of being considered "insensitive". Black people have to be worried over comic roles in films with predominately white casts for fear of being considered buffoonish. White people can't tell the same jokes about black people for fear of being considered racist. One of my favorite films was "Blazing Saddles" and it was patently offensive to EVERYBODY but you never thought they were laughing AT anyone because we were all in on the joke. Send that script to a studio in 2014 and you'll never work in films again.

Part of the blame does go toward people who don't include others. Making Asian and Indian characters into caricatures because the writers were too lazy to involve people of those heritages in the production doesn't help. We all want to laugh, but we can all find something to laugh at together without stepping on the dignity of others.

[westgrandboulevard]

I sometimes wonder if that was the greatest appeal of Disney animation...

[Jerry Oz]

That's probably why fantasy is one of my favorite genres. Too much of the real world exists in the real world to be comfortable while being entertained.

[westgrandboulevard]

I enjoy documentaries which at least appear to be accurate, even if I am unable to confirm otherwise.

In general, the real world can leave nothing to the imagination, and often seems harsh and threatening, so fantasy represents pleasure.

I would prefer fantasy entertainment over being reminded exactly how it is out there, any day.

[Jerry Oz]

I have watched more documentaries already this year than in entire past years. Most of them were related to nutrition and the American food supply chain. Be grateful that you live in Europe, by the way. Be wary of clever directors who are able to disguise opinions as facts through clever use of information. Remember the saw about there being three levels of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[westgrandboulevard]

Just to clarify, are genetically modified crops used as standard in your food supply chain?

[Jerry Oz]

Yes. They appear in more things than many know or care about. GMO corn is in every candy bar, sugary drink, and snack you can imagine. GMO soy is in our bread, crackers, cereal, and condiments. If you want to eat processed food, expect lots of both in them. MSG is the great neutralizer when recipes fail and when in doubt, just add a few teaspoons of salt.

If you want steak for dinner, I hope you like antibiotics and hormones because you will be consuming them. The entire food supply chain is subsidized by the tax payers, so we are paying the corporate farmers for the right for us to become sick as a result of eating their product. I guess you could say we pay them to produce the food we will turn around and buy, so they get us twice.

I won't get into how the animals are treated. Chickens are bred with breasts so large they cannot walk. Good thing too, because they are caged and have nowhere to go. And the regulations are so strict for organic farmers, very few can afford to do it, so healthy foodstuffs are much too expensive for most.

Good thing our taxes support corn and soy farmers, huh? Otherwise, who could afford to eat?

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm not sure if our laws are any more strict than yours, but could well be.

I think GM crops are not grown commercially here. GM commodities are imported for animal feed and, to a lesser extent, in some food products.

I imagine our farming methods are broadly similar, [[antibiotics and hormones) but your farming industry is on a huge scale, compared to ours. There are plans to have very large dairy farms where the cattle never see pasture [[but probably not unusual there), and 40% of the dairy farms have gone in the last seven years....

[Jerry Oz]

The world has changed. Our beef cattle are raised in pens and fed grain instead of grass. When they first eat this diet, their bodies reject it and they become violently ill. Between the grain and medication, they grow to mature size much faster than they would naturally. They are fat and unhealthy and forced to exist in muddy pens, wallowing in manure with dozens of other cows until being walked to the slaughter house.

[westgrandboulevard]

I wonder if any of the antibiotics make their way into McDonalds burgers.....

[Jerry Oz]

They are in American burgers to the extent that we now face the prospect of viruses that are resistant to antibiotics. These "superbugs" have evolved due to over-consumption of antibiotics and require extraneous means to treat them. Every effort to require meat producers to label their packaging to indicate what is in the meat has been soundly defeated by deep-pocketed lobbyists. In fact, if you label your meat or milk to be sans hormones and antibiotics, you are required to specifically note that scientists have found no particular difference between product that has been treated vs product that has not.

[westgrandboulevard]

..which seems to beg the question "then why do it?"......

[Jerry Oz]

Money. You grow your livestock 20% faster and it grows to an unnatural size, giving you more yield. If the public gets sick from eating? Well, that's their problem. The US Department of Agriculture and Food and Drug Administration support the industry, in spite of the fact that every year we have thousands of pounds of beef recalled due to diseasse caused by nonhygienic handling. We're talking about people actuall dying.

And it's water under the bridge when a year later, they give you a lot number for perishable food and say that if you still have it, you should take it back to the store for exchange. There are many abuses, but the industry is so large and influential, there is no hope for change.

[westgrandboulevard]

I know you're not eating meat, but do you have farm shops from local suppliers, in your area?

[Jerry Oz]

No, not many. There is a cooperative that opened up a few miles away from my home, though. I need to see what they offer. We do have stores that sell organic meat, though. My wife eats organic beef and chicken. There are strict rules pertaining to what may be labeled organic and one of the reasons that there are not more inspectors on the assembly lines of meat packers is because they spend a lot of resournces cracking down on Mom and Pop farms. In many states, you cannot even purchase raw milk and in others [[like mine), if you gave me $10 to purchase it on my trip to an Amish farm, I'd be breaking the law to buy it for you. Yet, every major issue with illness has come from industrial meat processors and dairies, not the small farmers who follow sustainable practices. It's all about money.

[westgrandboulevard]

Milk in UK which has not been heat treated can only be sold direct to their customers by registered producers or their roundsmen, and must be tuberculosis and brucellosis free. There are quite strict hygiene, sampling and inspection procedures - and a warning put on all products.

[Jerry Oz]

That's understandable. There are no required warning labels on dairy here, unless you state that yours is BsT free. In that case, the label must state that there is no scientific proof that the milk is safer than standard milk.

Many here are upset over the fact that many of the health concerns pertaining to raw milk are overstated and that the nutritional benefit of milk is drastically reduced through the normal pasteurization process. In states that permit direct sell of raw milk to consumers, there has been no concerns with health issues. However, milk from the larger producers has had issues associated with it and the regulators are less concerned about it.

[westgrandboulevard]

Some of the people who feel that health concerns over untreated milk are overstated, probably are unaware of the severity of the potential diseases which could be contracted - and that's because they simply are unfamiliar with them. They'd be the first to want to sue - if they survive.

Much the same with immunisation against diseases in humans. Nature is poised, always ready to strike back......

[Jerry Oz]

Ah, but there's rub: the case history of the last 50 years reveals more danger to the milk I receive at the grocer than the milk people drink on the farm. It doesn't matter much to me these days because although I'm sadly addicted to cheese, I no longer drink milk.

Now that I consider it, it is kind of creepy that we drink another species' milk. I'm thinking too hard about this stuff. If it hasn't killed me, it probably won't. Please tell me that I'm right..

[westgrandboulevard]

As I mentioned on the other thread, you're just a bit anxious - which needs to be addressed, but carefully.

Yes, you are quite right. If it hasn't killed you, it probably won't.

One thing is for sure : just worrying about it won't make a bit of difference.

Be alert to any mild aversions that may develop in your subconscious, while your keen intelligence is fully engaged on other matters. Those feelings may become stronger than you realise......

[Jerry Oz]

Okay. I think my hour on the couch is up. How much do I owe you, Doc?

[westgrandboulevard]

LOL! No charge. Any time.

How is Spring over there, after all the snow....?

[Jerry Oz]

Up and down, so far. We had a three-day span last week wherein we went from a high of 80 [[27) degrees to a high of 37 [[3) degrees. It even snowed that day on my way to work.

Have the rains ceased over there?

[westgrandboulevard]

That made me realise I'd given it no more thought - probably because we have a fair amount of rain most years.

Yes, the excessive rain storms ceased some weeks ago, although we're back to showers on a regular basis.

The daylight hours are longer, and we've had beautiful sunshine on some days, although the evening temperatures have dipped lately. Central heating was on when we returned earlier, so must be cool.

All in all, it has seemed to be one of the mildest winters for many years, and no snow here in this part of the South at all ,that I can recall.

[Jerry Oz]

I wish we could say the same. It's cool, though because if we never had a baseline bad winter, then to what would we compare the wonderful ones?

[westgrandboulevard]

Very true. It's only when weather doesn't go the way we'd like, we ever really notice it.

[Jerry Oz]

I submit to you that if most people were guaranteed only 20 days of sunshine and warm temperatures for the rest of their lives, they would move to the Arctic and rejoice every day that it is below freezing. It's all about priorities.

[westgrandboulevard]

As an example of logic, it is rather extreme...but I take your point!

[Jerry Oz]

Life is too short. Can you imagine the following conversation on Death Row:
Warden: "Well, Killer, I was thinking about leaving early today to pick up something for my anniversary. How'd you like it if I gave you a one-day stay of execution?"
Killer: "I don't know, Chief. What's the forecast look like for tomorrow?"

Every day counts and anyone who doesn't hope for another one is probably in a bad place psychologically or in a horrible physical state. I can imagine being in constant pain and welcoming the sweet release that death might provide so I am not in position to judge.

[westgrandboulevard]

You're veering sharply towards the negative again, sir......

[Jerry Oz]

Just the opposite... I'm using an example of what appears to be illogical to me. There's very few reasonable circumstances why today should not be celebrated. Even if you know it's going to be bad, you'll probably survive. So suck it up, bite your lip, look at the clock and know that this too shall pass.

If that ain't motivational, then I'll just collect my fee, tell a few jokes, and sit down. My days as a motivator must not be working out too well...

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm probably more upbeat than many, albeit in a quiet way. I'm also somewhat self-motivated, so am probably alert for negativity, but without really knowing it.

There are many out there in definite need of your motivational skills, if only because they'll be looking to you to come up with a magic answer for their insecurities.....

[Jerry Oz]

People need hope. There's no magic answer, but there is perspective and that is something easily lost in rough situations. I do my best to make sure they know that they've seen rougher times and survived while letting them know that the headaches of today will one day be minor compared to what's coming down the pike. I'm not saying shrug and act like it's fine because it's not. But just realize that one day, you'll forget what made you cry today. So do yourself a favor and let it go sooner rather than later. You can do that and it'll move you on to something better.