If Mary Wilson had said "yes" to JellyBean Benetiz...

[selinasian]

Not meaning to defend anyone that signs contracts and then wants to duck out on them, but those MotorCity recordings were not well received or fondly remembered, nor did they produce any hits.

Probably Mary realized it was another path she shouldn't be going down, it was another mistake and so she thought she could bail................"After all, they are Supremes and honey, we is terrific".

This certainly puts another shading on things.

As far as I can remember the only hit in the UK from the 'MotorCity' stuff was in 1991 with 'Footsteps following me' by Frances Nero which got to #17. It wasn't released on MotorCity though, but on Debut Records.
I wasn't a big fan of it, though it was nice to see Frances having a hit.
I had a lot of the Nightmare/MotorCity stuff back in the day but the only song that really impressed me was the fabulous 'Chasing me into somebody else's arms' by Scherrie Payne.

[skooldem1]

Levine also calls Wanda Rogers a "drunk" and an "alcoholic bag lady".

For someone that has so much "love" for the Motown artists, he sure has a lot of shite to talk. Makes me question his credibility. I can understand if you don't happen to get a long with one artist, say Mary Wilson, and I can certainly appreciate his opinion on how she "ripped him off".....but Martha ripped him off too? Doesn't sound likes he's that great of a businessman.

I get confused about Motown revelations. Is the crediblity of the person revealing certain truths only suspect when it is in regards to artist on the Motown roster- other than Diana Ross?

Regarding how good of a business man he is/was and how that goes to his credibilty. One would then also have to ask themselves about Mary's business credibility.

[marybrewster]

I question what he has to say for several reasons:

How can you gather 50+ former Motown artists in a short amount of time and deliver on all of the promises you've made? I'd like to see what Wilson's and Reeves' contracts stated. And if Wilson and Reeves DID bamboozle Levine, where were the lawsuits? Did Wilson and Reeves pay him back? I see not mention of any of this. What "businessman" opens the door and allows himself to get ripped off and lets them get away with it? So with no follow through, I question his ability, and I call BS. Levine is a collector and tried, unsuccessfully, to collect his Motown "dolls". Something tells me that if you produce thousands of tracks and release single upon single upon single and only ONE charts, that you need to get into another profession.

[marybrewster]

And in regards to the ONE successful single as mentioned above, according to the artists website: "Her dream was short-lived - after recording constantly and receiving no royalties from Ian Levine, she severed her relationship and pursued other ventures."

RECEIVING NO ROYALTIES FROM LEVINE. Shall we continue to question his credibility. And for the record, this "her" was NOT Wilson, Reeves, or Rogers.

[Constantin]

Something tells me that if you produce thousands of tracks and release single upon single upon single and only ONE charts, that you need to get into another profession.

He produced some very big hits: "So many men, so little time" and "High energy" may have sold 10 million copies [[both). But what he did with the old Motown acts was a mistake, artistically in the first place.

[marybrewster]

He produced some very big hits: "So many men, so little time" and "High energy" may have sold 10 million copies [[both). But what he did with the old Motown acts was a mistake, artistically in the first place.

Thank you, Constanin. What I truly meant with that statement was the recordings with the Motown artists. His HI-NRG tracks are very in tune with what Stock Aitken Waterman did, but I think his "Motown" productions are cheap imitations.

[144man]

And if Wilson and Reeves DID bamboozle Levine, where were the lawsuits?

Anyone who starts a lawsuit in the UK is an idiot. All you end up doing is making rich lawyers even richer.

Were any of the artists entitled to royalties? I've somehow got the idea that they were paid a flat fee for their recordings.

[marv2]

Anyone who starts a lawsuit in the UK is an idiot. All you end up doing is making rich lawyers even richer.

Were any of the artists entitled to royalties? I've somehow got the idea that they were paid a flat fee for their recordings.

Do you really believe that all of those artists were willing to accept a flat fee when more than several of them have sued Motown over back ROYALTIES!

[144man]

Do you really believe that all of those artists were willing to accept a flat fee when more than several of them have sued Motown over back ROYALTIES!

Most of the artists who had releases on Motorcity weren't consistent hitmakers. Anyone rescued from obscurity such as Hattie Littles would have probably been only to pleased to accept an expense paid trip to the UK and a small fee.

Incidentally Brenda Holloway, who had issues with Motown, has only good things to say about her spell at Motorcity.

I doubt if Ian Levine would have had a big royalty bill anyway. When talking in a record shop to a representative from Charly [[who distributed Motorcity after PRT's demise), he told me he couldn't believe how low the sales figures were.

[Constantin]

Most of the artists who had releases on Motorcity weren't consistent hitmakers. Anyone rescued from obscurity such as Hattie Littles would have probably been only to pleased to accept an expense paid trip to the UK and a small fee.

Incidentally Brenda Holloway, who had issues with Motown, has only good things to say about her spell at Motorcity.

I doubt if Ian Levine would have had a big royalty bill anyway. When talking in a record shop to a representative from Charly [[who distributed Motorcity after PRT's demise), he told me he couldn't believe how low the sales figures were.

Generally they were completely unknown by the general public. Besides some of those acts weren't that big: groups like the Elgins or the Velvelettes for instance had only one hit in the 60's and the post-Jean Terrell Supremes weren't really a hit in her own time. Collectors and Motown fans knew who they were, of course, but even in England many of those acts had reduced fan bases. And worst of all, the synth-driven sound of all the recordings was awful [[and still is: few people play those records).

In my opinion, these records were complete frauds: I know many people that bought them [[the compilations series essentially) thinking they were actually buying the original songs. Many people bought the cd with "Love hangover" by the*Fifth Dimension thinking they were buying the 1975-1976 ABC version: instead all they had was an awful cover.

[Constantin]

Do you really believe that all of those artists were willing to accept a flat fee when more than several of them have sued Motown over back ROYALTIES!

But their Motown days were in the past: they were completely forgotten in 1989-1992, so they would have accepted anything.

[Jimi LaLumia]

just returned from Dj ing the opening set @ DISCO REVISITED/OHEKA CASTLE, with a very friendly and gracious John Jellybean Benitez as the headliner[[he even sought me out to let me know I forgot a CD in the booth after my opening set[[I was his opening 'act")...and I asked him...and YES, he did play the song for Mary Wilson and NO, she didn't like it...would it have been a hit for Mary/..we'll never know, but I can tell you that, as resident DJ at THE FUNHOUSE in NYC, Jellybean was a trend setter who would have promoted the heck out of a Mary Wilson single that he produced, in that then-trend setting club, which might have led to original Disco 92 WKTU giving the single airplay, and then?? ...who knows?...he didn't say that part, I"M saying that part...[[we had a fabulous, jam packed room at Okeha Castle in Huntington, by the way...)

[marv2]

But their Motown days were in the past: they were completely forgotten in 1989-1992, so they would have accepted anything.

But they didn't accept anything and that's why Ian Levine is sore head! LOL!

[Jimi LaLumia]

and by the way, for those of you who say that Mary was past her prime by the early 80's, I was on the NY club scene in the 80's, I was a regular at The Ritz, where Cherry Vanilla would do a "Girls Night Out" on a regular basis with NYC club faves like Brenda Bergman and Donna Destri...and another 'past her prime' r&b diva found her footing on that NYC circuit,at The Ritz...her name is Tina Turner,and she'd been around long before Miss Wilson!

[Constantin]

her name is Tina Turner,and she'd been around long before Miss Wilson!

You can't compare Turner and Wilson: Tina Turner wasn't Ike Tuner's background vocalist!

[jobeterob]

It is really impossible to put a finger on the "why" of things.............but the fact is things did not work out for any of the Supremes except Diana Ross. To me that seems very odd today. But a lot more artists break successfully out of a group now than in the past.

I believe all of the Supremes would have a better chance today than in 1970.

[Constantin]

It is really impossible to put a finger on the "why" of things.............but the fact is things did not work out for any of the Supremes except Diana Ross. To me that seems very odd today. But a lot more artists break successfully out of a group now than in the past.

I believe all of the Supremes would have a better chance today than in 1970.

Could the reason be that for Berry Gordy the Supremes were not a real group but a mere assemblage around their lead vocalist?

For me the real question is: what did Berry Gordy originally see in that three -or four- girls that were just blossoming teenagers without a strong singing background? I think that the answer is not that obvious [[like it is for Clive Davis and Whitney Houston for instance).

[Jimi LaLumia]

what Gordy saw was an IMAGE that would sell; groups were IN in the 60's, not solo stars;
and iconic stereotypes of fab crosssover black pop stars didn't exist yet, Gordy was busy inventing
them;
you have to put this in the context of the times[[which was the 60's) and I understand that if you weren't
around then [[I was) then you can't possibly get a grip on the pop culture context of that era, and what
at come before; this was a time when rocknroll and soul records were a 'fad', not even popular for a decade
yet when The Supremes came along[[1960) just a few scant years after the whole Elvis thing[[solo stars WERE
big in the 50's, not so much in the 60s,when groups took over, then the 70's once again became solo
stars)

[Jimi LaLumia]

by the early 80's, Tina Turner was a one hit wonder, gone and forgotten by the masses;
as far as the main stream was concerned there was a "Proud Mary" cover version and then nothing;
the MTV kids didn't know her at all, they knew Cyndi Lauper and Madonna;
it was another cover version,"Let's stay Together" which was filmed at The ritz, which Capitol U.S. finally agreed to release in America, that made Tina a national star, not an over nighter which she had been; that led to my pal Kurt Loder ,then at Rolling Stone,seeking her out and writing her book, "I,Tina", which led to the film, blah blah..
but before all that, the U.S. public still knew "Mary of The Supremes" a lot more than they knew Tina Turner; with the right team behind you, at any age, magic can happen...
just ask Susan Boyle..

[marv2]

Could the reason be that for Berry Gordy the Supremes were not a real group but a mere assemblage around their lead vocalist?

For me the real question is: what did Berry Gordy originally see in that three -or four- girls that were just blossoming teenagers without a strong singing background? I think that the answer is not that obvious [[like it is for Clive Davis and Whitney Houston for instance).

...and this folks is how some people attempt to rewrite history because of their desperate need to elevate Diane Ross. This practice will never work because the truth is the truth and the facts are the facts. The Supremes were real. They were a real group. All the members could sing. These answers are absolute!

[luke]

Well said Marv!

[marv2]

Well said Marv!

Thank you Luke!

[Roberta75]

Well said Marv!

Your unwavering loyalty is terribly touching.

[Constantin]

by the early 80's, Tina Turner was a one hit wonder, gone and forgotten by the masses;[...]
it was another cover version,"Let's stay Together" which was filmed at The ritz, which Capitol U.S. finally agreed to release in America, that made Tina a national star, [...]the U.S. public still knew "Mary of The Supremes" a lot more than they knew Tina Turner; with the right team behind you, at any age, magic can happen...just ask Susan Boyle..

That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed). In 1982-1984 everybody knew who Diana Ross was because "Upside Down" and "Muscles" had been huge hits and she was a kind of godmother for Michael Jackson.

But Mary Wilson? The only Wilson people knew was Mari with her beehive.

It may be hard for you to believe it but the Supremes were not a legendary group in the 80's in many non-English speaking countries. Personally, I bought my first record with songs of the Supremes by chance in 1985 [[H/D/H, "The Composer Series" because Bonnie Pointer's "Heaven Must Have Sent You" was on it) and my first real album of the Supremes in 1986 [[the 25th Anniversary 3-vinyl set) just to hear what Ross was doing before I knew her from the radio. And her 1986 autobiography "Dreamgirl" didn't change anything for Mary Wilson because it was not translated. So people had to read it in English and that restricted obviously its audience.

For some reason, Tina Turner was not that forgotten and I remember clearly the cover of "Let's Stay Together" when it was just a 12" single [[without its companion lp) being displayed proudly in record stores. And I remember that I thought she was "a great singer with a former career" [[only that because I never heard any Turner song).

[marv2]

That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed). In 1982-1984 everybody knew who Diana Ross was because "Upside Down" and "Muscles" had been huge hits and she was a kind of godmother for Michael Jackson.

But Mary Wilson? The only Wilson people knew was Mari with her beehive.

It may be hard for you to believe it but the Supremes were not a legendary group in the 80's in many non-English speaking countries. Personally, I bought my first record with songs of the Supremes by chance in 1985 [[H/D/H, "The Composer Series" because Bonnie Pointer's "Heaven Must Have Sent You" was on it) and my first real album of the Supremes in 1986 [[the 25th Anniversary 3-vinyl set) just to hear what Ross was doing before I knew her from the radio. And her 1986 autobiography "Dreamgirl" didn't change anything for Mary Wilson because it was not translated. So people had to read it in English and that restricted obviously its audience.

For some reason, Tina Turner was not that forgotten and I remember clearly the cover of "Let's Stay Together" when it was just a 12" single [[without its companion lp) being displayed proudly in record stores. And I remember that I thought she was "a great singer with a former career" [[only that because I never heard any Turner song).

If what you say is true:" That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed), then you must live in a very backwards place because the Supremes are known all over the World! I live in America, where do live? Is it really true what you said or are you just lying to score points with the malcontents?

[luke]

Hmmm-didnt the movie Dreamgirls with Supreme covers in various scenes win an oscar for Jennifer Hudson?. lol

[skooldem1]

If what you say is true:" That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed), then you must live in a very backwards place because the Supremes are known all over the World! I live in America, where do live? Is it really true what you said or are you just lying to score points with the malcontents?

This is quite possible. The hit making years of the Supremes ended around 1971/72. By 1982 it had been a decade since they had a top ten hit. Diana Ross was on top of the charts during this time. Anyone remember the scene in "Sisters Act" where Whoopie was talking about her love for girl groups and that one of her favorites was "The Supremes". One of the students asked "Who are the Supremes". Whoopie looked at him like she was suprised he asked such a question. Her reply was "Who are the Supremes???? Have you ever heard of Diana Ross". To which the student replied....."Oh.....Diana Ross". He knew her, but not her association with the group. Now forward 20 years to 2012 and most people under 25 don't know The Supremes, or Diana Ross.

[Constantin]

If what you say is true:" That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed), then you must live in a very backwards place because the Supremes are known all over the World! I live in America, where do live? Is it really true what you said or are you just lying to score points with the malcontents?

Every European country has its own legendary singers: Alaska in Spain, Mina in Italy, Claude François in France, Marianne Rosenberg in Germany, Amalia Rodrigues in Portugal are big names that cross my mind now. Few English-speaking singers have the same notoriety. In those countries, many people discovered Michael Jackson with "Thriller" or Whitney Houston with "The Bodyguard", not knowing what they have done before. The death of Whitney Houston was big news on TV only the first day. After that, very few tributes were paid to her. But when Johnny Hallyday, Raffaella Carrà or Julio Iglesias will die, it will be a very big deal in all the medias.

In Germany, the 60's are dominated by the Beatles [[11 songs #1) and Freddy Quinn [[10 songs #1) completely unknown outside the German-speaking countries [[one of his biggest hits is "La Paloma", a true classic for German and Austrian people).

In France, in a ranking of sales that covers more than 50 years [[1955-2009), Diana Ross is #596 [[out of 601 singers) and the Supremes don't appear. The first English-speaking singers are Michael Jackson [[#9), Madonna [[#10) and the Beatles [[#11).
http://www.infodisc.fr/Artiste_Ventes.php

For Spain:*http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fery/l...iggest_sellers

[marv2]

This is quite possible. The hit making years of the Supremes ended around 1971/72. By 1982 it had been a decade since they had a top ten hit. Diana Ross was on top of the charts during this time. Anyone remember the scene in "Sisters Act" where Whoopie was talking about her love for girl groups and that one of her favorites was "The Supremes". One of the students asked "Who are the Supremes". Whoopie looked at him like she was suprised he asked such a question. Her reply was "Who are the Supremes???? Have you ever heard of Diana Ross". To which the student replied....."Oh.....Diana Ross". He knew her, but not her association with the group. Now forward 20 years to 2012 and most people under 25 don't know The Supremes, or Diana Ross.

Yeah and Mary Wilson had sold out concerts in RUSSIA just a year ago singing Supremes songs!

[marv2]

Every European country has its own legendary singers: Alaska in Spain, Mina in Italy, Claude François in France, Marianne Rosenberg in Germany, Amalia Rodrigues in Portugal are big names that cross my mind now. Few English-speaking singers have the same notoriety. In those countries, many people discovered Michael Jackson with "Thriller" or Whitney Houston with "The Bodyguard", not knowing what they have done before. The death of Whitney Houston was big news on TV only the first day. After that, very few tributes were paid to her. But when Johnny Hallyday, Raffaella Carrà or Julio Iglesias will die, it will be a very big deal in all the medias.

In Germany, the 60's are dominated by the Beatles [[11 songs #1) and Freddy Quinn [[10 songs #1) completely unknown outside the German-speaking countries [[one of his biggest hits is "La Paloma", a true classic for German and Austrian people).

In France, in a ranking of sales that covers more than 50 years [[1955-2009), Diana Ross is #596 [[on 601 singers) and the Supremes don't appear. The first English-speaking singers are Michael Jackson [[#9), Madonna [[#10) and the Beatles [[#11).
http://www.infodisc.fr/Artiste_Ventes.php

For Spain:*http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fery/l...iggest_sellers

Claude Francois has been dead since 1978 [[as an example) so why don't you stop it. People all over the World have heard of the Supremes. More have heard of Whitney Houston perhaps, but she is a more recent artist.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the subject matter was Jellybean pursuing Mary Wilson to cut a song a little more than a decade after Diana Ross left The Supremes,and this happened in AMERICA, where, in the early 80's ,people were quite aware of The Supremes, as the hit play and soundtrack DREAMGIRLS, which was new, had renewed interest in the group IN AMERICA...
whatever was happening in your country, well, well,not really pertinent to this particular discussion, and Tina Turner was considered over by the time she was playing The Ritz down town NYC alongside Divine and Cherry Vanilla...[[and a group called Blue angel with an up coming singer named Cyndi Lauper...)

[marv2]

the subject matter was Jellybean pursuing Mary Wilson to cut a song a little more than a decade after Diana Ross left The Supremes,and this happened in AMERICA, where, in the early 80's ,people were quite aware of The Supremes, as the hit play and soundtrack DREAMGIRLS, which was new, had renewed interest in the group IN AMERICA...
whatever was happening in your country, well, well,not really pertinent to this particular discussion, and Tina Turner was considered over by the time she was playing The Ritz down town NYC alongside Divine and Cherry Vanilla...[[and a group called Blue angel with an up coming singer named Cyndi Lauper...)

Jimi, your post is most accurate and most honest. Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic. Mary Wilson Rocks!

[Constantin]

I wasn't the one who mentioned Turner in the first place.
And her comeback was, at first, merely European [[the covers of "Ball Of Confusion" for a cassette and then at the end of 1983 "Let's Stay Together").

"People all over the World have heard of the Supremes"? Of course not. Even in 1983.

[Roberta75]

This is getting really silly. If Mary Wilson was truly offered Holiday and actually did say no to it, then we can speculate until we are blue in the face whether it would have been a hit or not had she said yes.

It's like saying if my uncle had a vagina he'd be my aunt. This is how dumb this argument is becoming.

Roberta

[marv2]

I wasn't the one who mentioned Turner in the first place.
And her comeback was, at first, merely European [[the covers of "Ball Of Confusion" for a cassette and then at the end of 1983 "Let's Stay Together").

"People all over the World have heard of the Supremes"? Of course not. Even in 1983.

Her [[Tina Turner's) comeback was purely American with "Let's Stay Together" in late 1983. People all over the World had heard of the Supremes even in Eastern Europe where they could not buy the records. You are just argumentative and ridiculous. There were no groups more known than the Supremes, The Beatles and perhaps the Rolling Stones.

[Constantin]

Her [[Tina Turner's) comeback was purely American with "Let's Stay Together" in late 1983. People all over the World had heard of the Supremes even in Eastern Europe where they could not buy the records. You are just argumentative and ridiculous. There were no groups more known than the Supremes, The Beatles and perhaps the Rolling Stones.

From Wikipedia : "In 1982, Turner teamed up with*B.E.F.*for a remake of*the Temptations' "Ball of Confusion".^[40]*The song became a hit in European dance clubs. Following this success, the producers asked her to incorporate a cover of*Al Green's classic, "Let's Stay Together". Released in November 1983, just days before Turner's 44th birthday, the song became a hit single in the UK reaching number six on their charts and also became a hit in several other European countries.^[41][42]*The success of "Let's Stay Together" in Europe convinced Turner's new company*Capitol Records*to release the song in the US in early 1984, with the song reaching number twenty six on the*Billboard Hot 100^[43]*while also peaking at the top five of the R&B and dance charts.<sup>[44][45]"

Turner's comeback is, at the beginning, British. Maybe Wilson has that in mind when she worked with Levine in the 80's: UK audiences are much more faithful when it comes to singers. And nowadays it's exactly the same with the Supremes: the 50th Anniversary set is # 12 759 on Amazon.co.uk and only #124 274 on Amazon.de [["More hits by the Supremes" is #2 478 on Amazon.co.uk and #152 087 on Amazon.de).</sup>

[Jimi LaLumia]

as you'll notice in my first Turner comment, I said "Capitol finally agreed to release it in America"..I knew it was an import at that time;
the point is, America had no Tina on the radar before that since Proud Mary was a hit [[Nutbush City Limits was an almost hit) so I equated that an older female of color like Mary, could be re launched in the MTV era, as Tina had been after a decade of nothing for Tina in America.....I'm not talking about the UK,which is another planet, especially back then

[marv2]

From Wikipedia : "In 1982, Turner teamed up with*B.E.F.*for a remake of*the Temptations' "Ball of Confusion".^[40]*The song became a hit in European dance clubs. Following this success, the producers asked her to incorporate a cover of*Al Green's classic, "Let's Stay Together". Released in November 1983, just days before Turner's 44th birthday, the song became a hit single in the UK reaching number six on their charts and also became a hit in several other European countries.^[41][42]*The success of "Let's Stay Together" in Europe convinced Turner's new company*Capitol Records*to release the song in the US in early 1984, with the song reaching number twenty six on the*Billboard Hot 100^[43]*while also peaking at the top five of the R&B and dance charts.<sup>[44][45]"

Turner's comeback is, at the beginning, British. Maybe Wilson has that in mind when she worked with Levine in the 80's: UK audiences are much more faithful when it comes to singers. And nowadays it's exactly the same with the Supremes: the 50th Anniversary set is # 12 759 on Amazon.co.uk and only #124 274 on Amazon.de [["More hits by the Supremes" is #2 478 on Amazon.co.uk and #152 087 on Amazon.de).</sup>

You seriously believe a dance club hit in Europe means a HIT? To this day you would be hard press to find anyone in America that has even heard Tina Turner's version of "A Ball of Confusion" To put things in prospective for you. The group Boney M [[whom I like a lot) is mostly unknown in America and has never had a hit here! Sure, America isn't the World, but it is the largest market for record sales.

[Constantin]

I'm not talking about the UK,which is another planet, especially back then

:-))

whatever was happening in your country, well, well [...]

By the way, I never wrote anything on my country: I'm from Luxembourg, a country virtually unknown by the rest of the world :-)

[marv2]

:-))



By the way, I never wrote anything on my country: I'm from Luxembourg, a country virtually unknown by the rest of the world :-)

Uh huh! Now see you just busted yourself! How old are you? I ask this because the Supremes record "Bad Weather" was a number one hit in Luxembourg in 1973 one of the few places that it did reach number one! HA!

[whitesoxx]

From the archives...

By Edgar [[200.46.13.137) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 06:57 pm:

"Bad Weather" was released as a single in 1973, and was a huge hit in different places. I was living in San Juan [[Puerto Rico) in those days and it became #1 there. It was also played constantly on Radio Luxembourg. Not so in the US, where it flopped.

***

Being played on a radio station does not a number one make, I'm afraid.

[honest man]

if Mary had recorded Holiday,it would have been another flop to add to her solo tally flops and Madge would still have been the superstar she is-was along with Diana ,Babs.Mariah,Whitney. CHEERS.

[marv2]

From the archives...

By Edgar [[200.46.13.137) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 06:57 pm:

"Bad Weather" was released as a single in 1973, and was a huge hit in different places. I was living in San Juan [[Puerto Rico) in those days and it became #1 there. It was also played constantly on Radio Luxembourg. Not so in the US, where it flopped.

***

Being played on a radio station does not a number one make, I'm afraid.

I am going on memory [[which is scary) but back at the time there was a fan club that announced that the record had went to number one in Hawaii, PR and Luxembourg to name a few markets. I also think they mentioned D.C. My point is, Constanin repeatedly said that the Supremes were basically unheard of by people in the rest of the World [[outside of the U.S.) and I wanted to point out that even in his home country the Supremes were popular.

[Constantin]

From the archives...
By Edgar [[200.46.13.137) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 06:57 pm:
"Bad Weather" was released as a single in 1973, and was a huge hit in different places. I was living in San Juan [[Puerto Rico) in those days and it became #1 there. It was also played constantly on Radio Luxembourg. Not so in the US, where it flopped.
***
Being played on a radio station does not a number one make, I'm afraid.

That is what I thought, that it was "Radio Luxembourg" which is a French radio.

Radio Luxembourg is actually RTL a very big group based in Luxembourg and originally luxembourger. Since the country is very small [[500.000 inhabitants) and we are bilingual [[we speak a sort of German but our written language is French, reason why I corrected errors you've made in French even though I'm not French), this group is aimed at our two big neighbours: France and Germany both have their own RTL radio or TV. For France the reason is that French governement use to have a monopoly on all radio and TV matters, but since Luxembourg is near France, we could transmit for them without problems.
In Luxembourg, the country, anyway, the name of the radio is "Radio Lëtzebuerg".

And I can assure you that in the early 80's few people remembered the Supremes outside the US and the UK [[and when it was the case it was always the 60's group). And I don't talk about China, Angola, Saudi Arabia or Paraguay... Some compilations like 1977's "20 Golden Greats" were huge hits in the UK [[#1) but not elsewhere. The interest in the Supremes was at its lowest point then.Things changed with the release of "25th Anniversary" in 1986 and "The Never-Before-Released Masters" in 1987. And after that, all the reissues were released. But even Ross distanced herself from the Supremes at the time: in her shows,she never performed the songs of the 60's like she was performing the others [[just a medley), no reunions of course [[especially after Motown 25) and no compilation with her songs and songs of the Supremes [[the first one being "Forever Diana" in 1993 if I'm not mistaken).

And the worst of it, for Mary Wilson, was that a British singer named Mari Wilson was having hits with her album "Showpeople".


-

[marv2]

That is what I thought, that it was "Radio Luxembourg" which is a French radio.

Radio Luxembourg is actually RTL a very big group based in Luxembourg and originally luxembourger. Since the country is very small [[500.000 inhabitants) and we are bilingual [[we speak a sort of German but our written language is French, reason why I corrected errors you've made in French even though I'm not French), this group is aimed at our two big neighbours: France and Germany both have their own RTL radio or TV. For France the reason is that French governement use to have a monopoly on all radio and TV matters, but since Luxembourg is near France, we could transmit for them without problems.
In Luxembourg, the country, anyway, the name of the radio is "Radio Lëtzebuerg".

And I can assure you that in the early 80's few people remembered the Supremes outside the US and the UK [[and when it was the case it was always the 60's group). And I don't talk about China, Angola, Saudi Arabia or Paraguay... Some compilations like 1977's "20 Golden Greats" were huge hits in the UK [[#1) but not elsewhere. The interest in the Supremes was at his lowest point then.Things changed with the release of "25th Anniversary" in 1986 and "The Never-Before-Released Masters" in 1987. And after that, all the reissues were released. But even Ross distanced herself from the Supremes at the time: in her shows,she never performed the songs of the 60's like she was performing the others [[just a medley), no reunions of course [[especially after Motown 25) and no compilation with her songs and songs of the Supremes [[the first one being "Forever Diana" in 1993 if I'm not mistaken).

And the worst of it, for Mary Wilson, was that a British singer named Mari Wilson was having hits with her album "Showpeople".


-

So like I said earlier. Your claim that the rest of the World did not know who the Supremes were is false! Even in the country where you live , they were playing the Supremes on the radio!

[Constantin]

So like I said earlier. Your claim that the rest of the World did not know who the Supremes were is false! Even in the country where you live , they were playing the Supremes on the radio!

OMG, do you actually read the posts or just live in your fantasy world? Can't you stop distorting what people write [[or say)?

[supremester]

Your analogy is ideal! If your uncle had a vagina, he'd be a man with a vagina - ugh. Likewise, Mary singing Holiday, would be very similar. Her husky voice is coarse and rough when she's singing pop and rock. She just doesn't have the chops for most of it. She had limited success with Floy Joy, Automatically Sunshine and the stupid Touch, but they called for a smokey, sultry lead - which she can do well, but still not get peeps way into it. Her forte was and remains ballads. Don't Let The Tear Drops is great. Mary on Holiday, would never have made a blip on the radar. Mary had a lot of exposure though the years....... if she was a pop act, someone would have signed her.

This is getting really silly. If Mary Wilson was truly offered Holiday and actually did say no to it, then we can speculate until we are blue in the face whether it would have been a hit or not had she said yes.

It's like saying if my uncle had a vagina he'd be my aunt. This is how dumb this argument is becoming.

Roberta

[marv2]

That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed).

These are your words, not mine......

[Constantin]

These are your words, not mine......

Actually those are my words:*[[We were talking about 1983, Turner's comeback and Wilson's hypothetical comeback thanks to "Holiday".)

"That is your point of view from the country you live in.
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed). In 1982-1984 everybody knew who Diana Ross was because "Upside Down" and "Muscles" had been huge hits and she was a kind of godmother for Michael Jackson.

But Mary Wilson? The only Wilson people knew was Mari with her beehive.

It may be hard for you to believe it but the Supremes were not a legendary group in the 80's in many non-English speaking countries."

and

"And I can assure you that in the early 80's few people remembered the Supremes outside the US and the UK [[and when it was the case it was always the 60's group). And I don't talk about China, Angola, Saudi Arabia or Paraguay... Some compilations like 1977's "20 Golden Greats" were huge hits in the UK [[#1) but not elsewhere. The interest in the Supremes was at its lowest point then.Things changed with the release of "25th Anniversary" in 1986 and "The Never-Before-Released Masters" in 1987. "

Now if you don't want to understand it, I am not going to waste my time with stubborn women like you.

[marv2]

Actually those are my words:

"That is your point of view from the country you live in.*
In mine, where the Motown sound is just "pop of the 60's", nobody knew who the Supremes were [[and that has not changed). In 1982-1984 everybody knew who Diana Ross was because "Upside Down" and "Muscles" had been huge hits and she was a kind of godmother for Michael Jackson.*

But Mary Wilson? The only Wilson people knew was Mari with her beehive.*

It may be hard for you to believe it but the Supremes were not a legendary group in the 80's in many non-English speaking countries."

and

"And I can assure you that in the early 80's few people remembered the Supremes outside the US and the UK [[and when it was the case it was always the 60's group). And I don't talk about China, Angola, Saudi Arabia or Paraguay... Some compilations like 1977's "20 Golden Greats" were huge hits in the UK [[#1) but not elsewhere. The interest in the Supremes was at its lowest point then.Things changed with the release of "25th Anniversary" in 1986 and "The Never-Before-Released Masters" in 1987. "

....and now you're just wasting my time.