If Mary Wilson had said "yes" to JellyBean Benetiz...

[jobeterob]

Marv is right; very often in the 15 years following the demise of the Supremes, Mary followed in Diana's footsteps, dressed like her and acted like her in concert. But they were coached by Berry and Motown, so that is no surprise. Mary hoped to duplicate the success.

Only in recent years, when everyone has had to become content with their place in history, has Mary found her own show, her own voice, her own persona, her college education and hopefully some happiness.

When did she say she was moving to England? May? later in the year?

[atcsm]

All I am saying is that Marv compared Miss Ross' FBP to Miss Wilson WTL & I'm just curious as to which one charted higher and on which chart since that is so important to him.

[smark21]

I prefer Shantal Baker's Wait [[You Can't Hurry Love) to either Walk the Line or The Force Behind the Power.

[smark21]

MADONNA was the ultimate diva of a brand new toy called MTV; THAT is what sold her, and they were only interested in new, current acts at the time, whoever had videos

Though interestingly, Madonna didn't shoot a video for Holiday so the song went top twenty strictly on airplay. And the song has often been performed for her concert tours.

[atcsm]

I'm sure Miss Ross will thank her tomorrow for her contributions. She is a giver.

I prefer Shantal Baker's Wait [[You Can't Hurry Love) to either Walk the Line or The Force Behind the Power.

[marv2]

All I am saying is that Marv compared Miss Ross' FBP to Miss Wilson WTL & I'm just curious as to which one charted higher and on which chart since that is so important to him.

You are having a problem following the thread. It was your friend Sugarchilehoneybaby that tried to make that gross comparison. Go back. Read it again. Thanks.

[marv2]

Marv is right; very often in the 15 years following the demise of the Supremes, Mary followed in Diana's footsteps, dressed like her and acted like her in concert. But they were coached by Berry and Motown, so that is no surprise. Mary hoped to duplicate the success.

Only in recent years, when everyone has had to become content with their place in history, has Mary found her own show, her own voice, her own persona, her college education and hopefully some happiness.

When did she say she was moving to England? May? later in the year?

Now why would a universally accepted classic beauty like Mary Wilson want to mess up her looks to look like THAT? It is my understanding that Diana Ross is a role model for drag queens.....Not the beautiful and sexy Mary Wilson!

[atcsm]

Please post the chart comparisons.

You are having a problem following the thread. It was your friend Sugarchilehoneybaby that tried to make that gross comparison. Go back. Read it again. Thanks.

[atcsm]

Just to be clear - you admit that FBP charted higher than WLT?

[Constantin]

I agree with you about "U" but 1986 was obviously her year to come back, not '96. Diana was having trouble placing on the charts by then, so how could Mary stand a chance when "Take Me Higher" couldn't even hit big?

Actually, it was her comeback year: that year "Dreamgirl: My life as a Supreme" was published.

[SupremeBoy]

I'm a big fan of Miss Mary Wilson. With that said I feel that if she had recorded "Holiday" it would definitely not sound like the song we now know. Madonna and Mary have to drastically different vocal ranges.

The song was Madonna's first Top 10 but in retrospect it really is an innocuous song. Great beat. You can dance to it. But no depth. It served it's purpose for a [[then) up and coming singer like Madonna. It wouldn't have worked for Mary Wilson.

Would-a, Should-a, Could-a....

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Though interestingly, Madonna didn't shoot a video for Holiday so the song went top twenty strictly on airplay. And the song has often been performed for her concert tours.

Exactly!

If "Muscles" could hit Top 10, so could "Holiday".

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

I will say this: Mary's breasts oughtta be insured by Lloyd's of London. I mean, who the hell cares what she sounds like?

[smark21]

Now why would a universally accepted classic beauty like Mary Wilson want to mess up her looks to look like THAT? It is my understanding that Diana Ross is a role model for drag queens.....Not the beautiful and sexy Mary Wilson!

Drag Queens tend to emulate great stars and legends. They may not all do a great job of it, but it's stars and legends they take inspiration from.

[smark21]

I'm a big fan of Miss Mary Wilson. With that said I feel that if she had recorded "Holiday" it would definitely not sound like the song we now know. Madonna and Mary have to drastically different vocal ranges.

The song was Madonna's first Top 10 but in retrospect it really is an innocuous song. Great beat. You can dance to it. But no depth. It served it's purpose for a [[then) up and coming singer like Madonna. It wouldn't have worked for Mary Wilson.

Would-a, Should-a, Could-a....

Borderline was Madonna's first top ten hit. Holiday tapped out around #16 or 14. But the song endures as an early Madonna and 80's pop classic. Proof once again that a song does not need to go to #1 to endure in pop culture.

[marv2]

Actually, it was her comeback year: that year "Dreamgirl: My life as a Supreme" was published.

That is not true.

[captainjames]

Comeback from what ? Who ?

[marv2]

Comeback from what ? Who ?

what? where? how? LOL!

[smark21]

Did Mary record any music around the time her book Dreamgirl was published? When did she do those sides with Ian Levine? [[not that those would have brought her back to the charts).

[marv2]

Did Mary record any music around the time her book Dreamgirl was published? When did she do those sides with Ian Levine? [[not that those would have brought her back to the charts).

Yeah she recorded "My Lovelife Is A Disaster" for Peter Stringfellows "Stringfellow Records". It remained unreleased as a demo essentially:

[marv2]

The above recording was from 1986. I believe she got involved with Ian Levine in the latter half of 1987.

[jobeterob]

I've never understood why after Motown 25 Mary couldn't get a recording contract? I guess times were just different then. These days, any group as big as the Supremes that broke up, would go on to have the members releases songs, albums and almost with certainty, they'd at least chart. But it never worked like that in the day of the Supremes. You couldn't find any of Mary's singles that were released. There was no promotion at all for anything after she left Motown. And Red Hot just wasn't the type of song that would ever be a hit.

It didn't really make any sense.

And it is all would have, could have, wasn't. Was she in the vicinity of anything Grammy this weekend?

[Roberta75]

Did Mary record any music around the time her book Dreamgirl was published? When did she do those sides with Ian Levine? [[not that those would have brought her back to the charts).

Things didn't end well between Ian Levine and Ms. Wilson. I think Mary and her manager ran off with Ian Levine's money.

Mr. Levine explains what happened in this youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT9EF29OqFE

Roberta

[atcsm]

That's too bad - was that a pattern?

[Roberta75]

That's too bad - was that a pattern?

Oh I seriously doubt it atcsm. Mary just isn't that type of woman. She's a wonderful lady who probably had bad management at the time of the Ian Levine recordings.

Roberta

[marv2]

I've never understood why after Motown 25 Mary couldn't get a recording contract? I guess times were just different then. These days, any group as big as the Supremes that broke up, would go on to have the members releases songs, albums and almost with certainty, they'd at least chart. But it never worked like that in the day of the Supremes. You couldn't find any of Mary's singles that were released. There was no promotion at all for anything after she left Motown. And Red Hot just wasn't the type of song that would ever be a hit.

It didn't really make any sense.

And it is all would have, could have, wasn't. Was she in the vicinity of anything Grammy this weekend?

The reason you don't understand is because you never know what you are talking about especially when it comes to Mary Wilson. She had recording contract offers, several of them. They could never come to terms; to her satisfaction. Sure, of course times where different then. It was 1983, 29 years ago....geez! These days, no one is looking for a recording contract when you have many more outlets to market and sale your own music and reap the majority of the revenue directly. Charting really doesn't mean much to anyone these days due to the downfall of "Top 40 Radio" the listening public wouldn't be able to tell you one song that is on a "chart" these days. That is nothing new, it's been that way for close to the last 10-12 years. Where have you been?

I have all of Mary's singles, album/CDs, DVD's and concert videos. It wasn't hard at all to find them either, that is if you were HONESTLY trying to obtain her material........on hehehehehehe. She probably earns more now in a year than she did in all the years the Supremes were at their peak! So I don't think having a recording contract is that valuable these days as it once was back last century. Has Diane finally stopped hounding Clive Davis for one? I know she's begging for years now.

I don't know if Mary Wilson was in the vicinity of anything Grammy this weekend. She is very close with Dionne Warwick and no doubt mourning the recent death of the Queen of Pop Music, Ms. Whitney Houston, so the Grammys would not even be a priority for many of our great classic artists this year.

[marv2]

Things didn't end well between Ian Levine and Ms. Wilson. I think Mary and her manager ran off with Ian Levine's money.

Mr. Levine explains what happened in this youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT9EF29OqFE

Roberta

That's just his side of the story. Have you met Ian Levine? I have..........

[marv2]

Oh I seriously doubt it atcsm. Mary just isn't that type of woman. She's a wonderful lady who probably had bad management at the time of the Ian Levine recordings.

Roberta

Oh, so but you do know Chip?

[Constantin]

Things didn't end well between Ian Levine and Ms. Wilson. I think Mary and her manager ran off with Ian Levine's money.

Mr. Levine explains what happened in this youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT9EF29OqFE

Roberta

"She then did an interview in Blues And Soul, claiming I had ripped off all the former Motown artists. I produced the contracts for her album to Blues And Soul, proved that she had not honoured her contract, and they printed an immediate retraction. So the fifteen Mary Wilson tracks I paid for still remain unrecorded, and people still privately tell me how much she criticises me. Kind of strange coming from someone who made a fortune with a best selling book which exposed her former friend, Diana Ross. Florence Ballard was quoted as saying that at least she knew where she stood with Diana, as opposed to Mary."

WAW!!

[Roberta75]

"She then did an interview in Blues And Soul, claiming I had ripped off all the former Motown artists. I produced the contracts for her album to Blues And Soul, proved that she had not honoured her contract, and they printed an immediate retraction. So the fifteen Mary Wilson tracks I paid for still remain unrecorded, and people still privately tell me how much she criticises me. Kind of strange coming from someone who made a fortune with a best selling book which exposed her former friend, Diana Ross. Florence Ballard was quoted as saying that at least she knew where she stood with Diana, as opposed to Mary."

WAW!!

Wow!!! So Blues And Soul printed a retraction as soon as they reviewed the contracts. Are you Mr. Levine Constantin? If so Miss Wilson is very lucky you didn't sue her.

Thanks for the insight.

Roberta

[captainjames]

Thanks for that information. Nothing like putting it in perspective.

"She then did an interview in Blues And Soul, claiming I had ripped off all the former Motown artists. I produced the contracts for her album to Blues And Soul, proved that she had not honoured her contract, and they printed an immediate retraction. So the fifteen Mary Wilson tracks I paid for still remain unrecorded, and people still privately tell me how much she criticises me. Kind of strange coming from someone who made a fortune with a best selling book which exposed her former friend, Diana Ross. Florence Ballard was quoted as saying that at least she knew where she stood with Diana, as opposed to Mary."

WAW!!

[jobeterob]

Every once in a while, somebody delivers an ass kicking on this Forum.

This appears to be one of those times. Things aren't always the way they appear...............

[144man]

Not long after "Ooh Child" was released, I went to Ian Levine's studio to buy some Motorcity releases. He told me at the time that he had paid for Mary Wilson to record some more tracks, but that he had so far been unable to get her to do so.

[jobeterob]

Not meaning to defend anyone that signs contracts and then wants to duck out on them, but those MotorCity recordings were not well received or fondly remembered, nor did they produce any hits.

Probably Mary realized it was another path she shouldn't be going down, it was another mistake and so she thought she could bail................"After all, they are Supremes and honey, we is terrific".

This certainly puts another shading on things.

[Roberta75]

Not meaning to defend anyone that signs contracts and then wants to duck out on them, but those MotorCity recordings were not well received or fondly remembered, nor did they produce any hits.

Probably Mary realized it was another path she shouldn't be going down, it was another mistake and so she thought she could bail................"After all, they are Supremes and honey, we is terrific".

This certainly puts another shading on things.

Then say no and give Mr. Levine his money back.

Roberta

[144man]

Quality is another issue, but a contract is a contract. I believe the only reason that Levine did not sue was that the legal costs would have been prohibitive. It seemed particularly ungrateful on Mary's part as, if I remember rightly, "Don't Get Mad Get Even" had a large advert on the back of the sleeve for "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme".

[marv2]

Whaddeva! Anyway, JellyBean should have wrote another song for Mary. One with more words and more meaning. He would have been making still more money from two singers from Michigan! LOL!

[atcsm]

If you are going to make snarky, smart ass comments you should use correct grammer - "JellyBean should have "WRITTEN" another song for Mary. Not "WROTE".

Whaddeva! Anyway, JellyBean should have wrote another song for Mary. One with more words and more meaning. He would have been making still more money from two singers from Michigan! LOL!

[marv2]

If you are going to make snarky, smart ass comments you should use correct grammer - "JellyBean should have "WRITTEN" another song for Mary. Not "WROTE".

qu'est que c'est "snarky"?

[atcsm]

proper grammer wasn't an option sweet cheeks? Bless you.

qu'est que c'est "snarky"?

[marv2]

proper grammer wasn't an option sweet cheeks? Bless you.

The word is GRAMMAR, not grammer........geez! Learn how to spell before you attempt to chastise someone. It just makes you look like a fool.

[atcsm]

touche -go for it whore

The word is GRAMMAR, not grammer........geez! Learn how to spell before you attempt to chastise someone. It just makes you look like a fool.

[jobeterob]

Oh oh...........Marv's calling the kettle black!

144 and Roberta...........of course you are right. There is also the issue of "collecting a judgement" and there might have been some issues there.

It amazes me the good information that can come out on this forum. I like it so much more than the real fan forums when you get less real hard information and more butt kissing.

And of course, we always have the troll for entertainment on a quiet day.

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Funny thing is, I thought "Don't Get Mad, Get Even" was pretty good stuff at the time! I also liked the Levine song for Martha & The Vandellas: "Step Into My Shoes".

[smark21]

Oh oh...........Marv's calling the kettle black!

144 and Roberta...........of course you are right. There is also the issue of "collecting a judgement" and there might have been some issues there.

It amazes me the good information that can come out on this forum. I like it so much more than the real fan forums when you get less real hard information and more butt kissing.

And of course, we always have the troll for entertainment on a quiet day.

Well there's plenty of butt kissing on this forum as well. Just check out the now locked Rules and Policies thread. Reminded me of office politics.

[Constantin]

Quality is another issue,
1- but a contract is a contract.
2- I believe the only reason that Levine did not sue was that the legal costs would have been prohibitive.
3- It seemed particularly ungrateful on Mary's part as, if I remember rightly, "Don't Get Mad Get Even" had a large advert on the back of the sleeve for "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme".

1- True
2- True
3- True.

[Constantin]

If you are going to make snarky, smart ass comments you should use correct grammer - "JellyBean should have "WRITTEN" another song for Mary. Not "WROTE".

........geez! Learn how to spell before you attempt to chastise someone. It just makes you look like a fool.
[...]
qu'est que c'est "snarky"?

Don't even try it in French because it is "Qu'est-ce que c'est". And in this specific case, the correct form would have been : "Que signifie". Don't make a fool of yourself :-))

[Constantin]

Yeah she recorded "My Lovelife Is A Disaster" for Peter Stringfellows "Stringfellow Records". It remained unreleased as a demo essentially

Quote from the Dusty Springfield forum: 'My Love Life Is A Disaster' is the same song that Mary Wilson recorded. It's horrible so I hope I never hear Dusty sing it. [Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:55 pm]

http://www.dustyspringfield.org.uk/f...php?f=6&t=1914

[marybrewster]

Every once in a while, somebody delivers an ass kicking on this Forum.

This appears to be one of those times. Things aren't always the way they appear...............

Here's what Levine had to say about Martha Reeves:

My relationship with Martha blew hot and cold. One day she was bringing a bucket full of fruit flavoured wine coolers to refresh everybody in the studio, which was truly lovely, then the next day she wouldn't even speak to me. In 1990 I signed a contract with her and paid a large advance to finally complete an album with her, an album that still hasn't been recorded to this day. But I can't help but adore her, even though she treated me terribly. It's hard to stay mad with one of your heroes, and I grew up with her music, and still adore her in every way. We all cried in the studio when she did the vocal on this song, her first recording for ten years, at that time.

[marybrewster]

Levine also calls Wanda Rogers a "drunk" and an "alcoholic bag lady".

For someone that has so much "love" for the Motown artists, he sure has a lot of shite to talk. Makes me question his credibility. I can understand if you don't happen to get a long with one artist, say Mary Wilson, and I can certainly appreciate his opinion on how she "ripped him off".....but Martha ripped him off too? Doesn't sound likes he's that great of a businessman.