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  1. #1
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    If Mary Wilson had said "yes" to JellyBean Benetiz...

    ..Around "83 there was a demo track floating around New York..nobody wanted to sing it..It was called "holiday" a simple catchy tune that producer Jellbean thought would be perfect to re launch a pop career for Mary Wilson..they had dinner and she turned the song down..a then upcomming club singer called Madonna heard it and recorded her vocal with magical ease in one day..Holiday reached #16 on the Pop Charts and became a huge club anthem,Launching Madonna onto "Solid Gold" and "American Bandstand" and hitting no.6 in the UK..when Mary would see Jellybean she would laugh and say "I know I Know i should have recorded it.." would it have worked for Mary? can you see her singing it? Would it have launched her into single success? or was it too pop and fitted madonna better? Your thoughts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    ..Around "83 there was a demo track floating around New York..nobody wanted to sing it..It was called "holiday" a simple catchy tune that producer Jellbean thought would be perfect to re launch a pop career for Mary Wilson..they had dinner and she turned the song down..a then upcomming club singer called Madonna heard it and recorded her vocal with magical ease in one day..Holiday reached #16 on the Pop Charts and became a huge club anthem,Launching Madonna onto "Solid Gold" and "American Bandstand" and hitting no.6 in the UK..when Mary would see Jellybean she would laugh and say "I know I Know i should have recorded it.." would it have worked for Mary? can you see her singing it? Would it have launched her into single success? or was it too pop and fitted madonna better? Your thoughts...
    There were hardly any lyrics to that song. Sure she could have sung it and it would have worked. You might remember that Mary told Eddie Holland that "Where Did Our Love Go"? was a stupid song and would not be a hit! LOL!!!!
    I remember Madonna locally, back in Michigan before she become well known. She appeared on "The Scene" in Detroit and I thought she was just ok.

  3. #3
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    Yeah Marv its a pretty simple tune,The UK loved it though -

    released 1984 hits #6
    re-released 1985 hits #2
    re-released again 1991 hits #5
    Thats pretty impressive for any single,I cant hear Mary singing it in my head though,Is her voice too deep for it maybe? I dunno know...

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    Don't think it would have worked for Mary in my opinion. Although Mary doesn't have the right voice for this type of song to carry it through, it still wouldn't have hurt to record it. I have never heard her even sing it in concert.

  5. #5
    smark21 Guest
    It would have sunk without a trace.

  6. #6
    topdiva1 Guest
    Regardless of what might of happened in addition to what might not of happened - business wise - at that time in her life it was very foolish to turn down Jelly Bean - as he was powerful at that time - and Mary needed help extremely bad - once again she was ill advised I was told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topdiva1 View Post
    Regardless of what might of happened in addition to what might not of happened - business wise - at that time in her life it was very foolish to turn down Jelly Bean - as he was powerful at that time - and Mary needed help extremely bad - once again she was ill advised I was told.
    Isn't that a legend? Actually Benitez never said nothing about it; we just have Wilson's version in her book.

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    Why start trouble and conflict. Geez. I can hear Mary singing it in that higher key of hers which I love. If you keep track of every hit song and movies that artists declined you could write a book. Nobody can know the future.

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    I'll try and ask Jellybean on Feb.18th; I'm the warm up DJ to Jellybean for DISCO REVISITED at the Oheka Castle in Huntington, Long Island...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    I'll try and ask Jellybean on Feb.18th; I'm the warm up DJ to Jellybean for DISCO REVISITED at the Oheka Castle in Huntington, Long Island...
    Hey, I am on Long Island. I may go to that. Have'nt been to the Oheka Castle in years. I'd love to hear with Jellybean has to say about all of this.

    So Jimi, can you send me the details in a private message? Thanks

    Marv

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    I'll try and ask Jellybean on Feb.18th; I'm the warm up DJ to Jellybean for DISCO REVISITED at the Oheka Castle in Huntington, Long Island...
    They are asking $200 per person ????!!!!

  12. #12
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    1983 was a time of neon, fingerless gloves, pearls, Aqua Net, mini skirts and leggings. Young girls ate up Madonna's image more than her music. The reason "Holiday" worked for Madonna is that she was hip, fresh and 25. I don't know that this would have worked for a 40 year old Mary Wilson, although it would have been fun to see a bunch of young girls running the streets in TCB "swirl" gowns.

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    What I would like to know is how, and where they met. How did their paths cross? If she would have gone on and recorded this, I agree, it would have sank without a trace. That type of song does not match Mary's voice.

  14. #14
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    I also find it hard to believe that Mary would have turned down any chance to record a solo record in the early 80's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by skooldem1 View Post
    What I would like to know is how, and where they met. How did their paths cross?
    Made me curious too. Found this on the internet.....in an interview with Mark Bego, the author of Madonna's first biography, from a Madonna website.

    http://www.madonnamemories.com/interview_markbego.htm

    First off, what was your very first impression of Madonna? Did you think even then that she was going to stand out? Did she have that certain spark?

    The early 1980's were something of a magical time for me. I was involved in so many different creative projects, and I was surprised to find that one way or another, they all seemed to intersect somehow with the growing career of Madonna..

    I knew all about the first Madonna [[1982) album, in sort of a bittersweet way. David Salidor, who is my publicist, and one of my best friends, had a client by the name of John Benitez, who went by the name of “Jellybean.” I knew Jellybean in that he was the disc jockey at a nightclub called The Fun House. He was dating Madonna at the time. He was also an aspiring record producer.

    Meanwhile, I was trying to expand my career into managing celebrities’ careers as well. I was at the time doing some consulting work with a dear friend of mine, Mary Wilson of The Supremes, and I was trying to get her a record deal.

    To make a long story short, in my efforts to land her a recording deal, I set up a meeting with Mary Wilson, Jellybean, David Salidor and I. Jellybean had a song that he had the rights to, called “Holiday.” Phyllis Hyman, who was currently recording for Arista, had already passed on the song. When Jellybean heard that Mary would be interested in hearing the song, he loved the idea of her recording it. Basically, if Mary liked the song, Jellybean would pay the production costs for Mary recording it. Jellybean played the song for Mary, and there was a moment of silence after the demo had finished playing. Finally, Mary formulated her thoughts, and told us what she thought of the song. I couldn’t wait to hear her opinion, as this was going to be my entree into the world of record production. Both David and I had these grand illusions of becoming “associate producers” of this record we were convinced could be a hit.

    “Holiday...celebrate...holiday...celebrate...holid ay celebrate?” Mary said with an less-than-pleased look on her face. “That’s not a song, that’s just two words repeated over and over again. Thanks for playing the song for me, but no thanks.” That was the end of that.

    Well, only days later there was a problem with one of the eight songs that were slated for the Madonna album, and they had to find another track. Jellybean convinced Madonna to record “Holiday,” and it became her first Top Ten Pop hit.

  16. #16
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    Phyllis Hyman, who was currently recording for Arista, had already passed on the song.

    THE PLOT THICKENS.

  17. #17
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    Thanks for the info.

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    yes, thanks for the updated info but I still don't hear or see Mary Wilson singing this song......Madonna was new, hip, fresh and exciting to see and watch then [[Not to say that Mary couldn't try and pull it off).

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    The more things change, the more things stay the same. Didn't Mary learn anything from when the Marvelettes turned down WDOLG- and then the Supremes also wanted to pass on it- but didn't [[thank goodness for that).

  20. #20
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    yes, $200.00 [[or 1500.00 for the VIP); it's a fund raiser..I'll be warm up DJ for JellyBean...
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Brin...type=1&theater

  21. #21
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    MaryBrewster is totally accurate, just because Madonna had a hit with it doesn't mean Mary would have. Madonna is nearly half Mary's age, and a record company rarely invests big money in a middle aged artist. They have wised up to the business and the record buying public generally are teenagers. They want to buy music by people of their own generation, just as we did. Added to this, Mary Wilson's past was that of a backing vocalist which made her situation worse, she was dismissed easily. Fair or not, and it isn't, I don't think Mary Wilson would have had a hit with that song. Diana Ross was still hot and likely she could have had a hit single with that song.

    The best chance Mary Wilson had at solo recording success was the Walk The Line CD. One Night With You could have put her on the Adult Contemporary charts and possibly a crossover soul and pop hit. But the record company that signed her had no money and failed quickly.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by skooldem1 View Post
    What I would like to know is how, and where they met. How did their paths cross? If she would have gone on and recorded this, I agree, it would have sank without a trace. That type of song does not match Mary's voice.
    The truth is [[brace yourself Marv2) is that the production values [[very disco) and the key the vocal was recorded in were far more of a match for Diana Ross!

    Just speaking truth.

    On a relate note, anybody know anything about the rumors that Peter Brown wrote the song "Material Girl" specifically for Ross and presented it to Nile Rodgers in 1981 with the hope that it would wind up on the aborted follow-up to "diana"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarchilehoneybaby View Post
    The truth is [[brace yourself Marv2) is that the production values [[very disco) and the key the vocal was recorded in were far more of a match for Diana Ross!

    Just speaking truth.

    On a relate note, anybody know anything about the rumors that Peter Brown wrote the song "Material Girl" specifically for Ross and presented it to Nile Rodgers in 1981 with the hope that it would wind up on the aborted follow-up to "diana"?
    That doesn't even interest me.

  24. #24
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    Earlier today, on CNN it was mentioned that Don Cornelius' biggest regret in regards to Soul Train was that he rejected an appearance by the young Madonna. This info came for Don's son. Interestingly, our local tv dance program in Detroit, "The Scene" hosted by Nat Morris is the very first time I ever saw Madonna perform.

  25. #25
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    This song would not have worked for Mary Wilson at all! U is the song that should have brought her back I love that song its in her key, it was hip, and it still stands up now. Its a smooth song and the video was perfect for her I enjoy this video more than Walk the Line although I like the song Walk the Line! Holiday was a teeny bopper song and if Madonna didnt have a hit with it, the song could have gone to someone like Kim Wilde, Expose, Debbie Gibson or someone like that. Ross would not have had a hit with it I think it would have tanked like Working Overtime. Everyone I know who heard Working Overtime [[for the little bit of radio play it got) hated it that is why I could see Miss Ross winning with this song or Mary Wilson. When I saw Mary do Walk the Line on Arsenio Hall I thought the record would get good promotion but I have always felt that song needed some remixing or something to give it a little more punch.

    Marys vocals were fine on Walk the Line but there was something missing in the music I think it should have been faster or something.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    This song would not have worked for Mary Wilson at all! U is the song that should have brought her back I love that song its in her key, it was hip, and it still stands up now. Its a smooth song and the video was perfect for her I enjoy this video more than Walk the Line although I like the song Walk the Line! Holiday was a teeny bopper song and if Madonna didnt have a hit with it, the song could have gone to someone like Kim Wilde, Expose, Debbie Gibson or someone like that. Ross would not have had a hit with it I think it would have tanked like Working Overtime. Everyone I know who heard Working Overtime [[for the little bit of radio play it got) hated it that is why I could see Miss Ross winning with this song or Mary Wilson. When I saw Mary do Walk the Line on Arsenio Hall I thought the record would get good promotion but I have always felt that song needed some remixing or something to give it a little more punch.

    Marys vocals were fine on Walk the Line but there was something missing in the music I think it should have been faster or something.
    Stephanie, some one just put up two different mixes of "U" on Youtube. One is a reggae flavored dancehall mix and the other is the one most of us know, the R&B mix that was on the radio here.

  27. #27
    ladonna Guest
    Walk the Line sucked; You was the fa-shizzle tho! I agree Stephanie.

  28. #28
    atcsm Guest
    That must give you great pleasure. Now do you want to comment on why you deleted the comment about Clive Davis on previous thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Earlier today, on CNN it was mentioned that Don Cornelius' biggest regret in regards to Soul Train was that he rejected an appearance by the young Madonna. This info came for Don's son. Interestingly, our local tv dance program in Detroit, "The Scene" hosted by Nat Morris is the very first time I ever saw Madonna perform.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by atcsm View Post
    That must give you great pleasure. Now do you want to comment on why you deleted the comment about Clive Davis on previous thread?
    I don't know what you are talking about? What were we discussing about Clive Davis? Was it something about JellyBean Benitez?

  30. #30
    atcsm Guest
    In your original post about Clive Davis party on the Diana 1980 thread you said that his party was nothing special and you delelted the last sentence about Clive being nothing but a previous owner of a major label. Your word against mine - let the forum decide but you know the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by atcsm View Post
    That must give you great pleasure. Now do you want to comment on why you deleted the comment about Clive Davis on previous thread?

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    I think poor Marv is just being driven crazy by all this Dianattention.

    The party is still on for Feb. 12; a pity party with Cake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I think poor Marv is just being driven crazy by all this Dianattention.

    The party is still on for Feb. 12; a pity party with Cake.
    No Jobeterob, I am actually sorry that whatever Diane Ross did has made you and your buddies almost totally mental! There is no one anywhere carrying on about her but you 5 or 6 guys here on the sub-forum to the Soulful Detroit Forum. I mean, she use to be kind of a big deal, but that was all 40 years ago. Young adults do not even know who she is and older adults do not care for her, which is why her career collapsed 25-30 years.

    The party was here, earlier this week. The New York Giants won the Super Bowl! They even had a parade here this past Tuesday, but I have to admit, no carried on like you guys are over this singer from the past and no even mentioned her name! LOL!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by atcsm View Post
    In your original post about Clive Davis party on the Diana 1980 thread you said that his party was nothing special and you delelted the last sentence about Clive being nothing but a previous owner of a major label. Your word against mine - let the forum decide but you know the truth.
    You are strange. REEEAAAAALLLLL strange!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    No Jobeterob, I am actually sorry that whatever Diane Ross did...
    Diane?? Who calls her Diane? I know only one person that still does it... ;-)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantin View Post
    Diane?? Who calls her Diane? I know only one person that still does it... ;-)
    Seems to me I have recently heard both Smokey Robinson and Mr. Gordy refer to Diana Ross as "Diane".

    Many of the Motown artists call her "Diane". There are several interviews of Florence calling her "Diane". I know Martha Reeves has called her "Diane". If you listen to "Heigh-Ho" by the DRATS, both Mary AND Cindy refer to Diana Ross as "Diane".

    So in the past, and in the present, people that KNOW or KNEW of Diana call her "Diane".

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Seems to me I have recently heard both Smokey Robinson and Mr. Gordy refer to Diana Ross as "Diane".

    Many of the Motown artists call her "Diane". There are several interviews of Florence calling her "Diane". I know Martha Reeves has called her "Diane". If you listen to "Heigh-Ho" by the DRATS, both Mary AND Cindy refer to Diana Ross as "Diane".

    So in the past, and in the present, people that KNOW or KNEW of Diana call her "Diane".
    Past, yes; present: only one. :-))

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    Marybrewster is very much correct. Lots of people like to bash Mary for calling Diana "Diane," but I've heard numerous people from the old Motown days still calling her "Diane." What's so terrible about it? I never understood why people have such a bone to pick with Mary over calling her that. I don't think it's any sort of slight at all although some people tend to think it is. I have an old friend of mine named David, but my close group of friends all know him as "Dave." He makes it known to everyone else that he wants to be called David, but he has no issue whatsoever with those of us who have known him for such a long time calling him "Dave."

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    I loved Walk the Line. I thought Mary killed that song on Arsenio and it was clear the crowd was really into it, too.

  39. #39
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    All of the people at Motown 40 years ago likely called Diana "Diane". There is nothing wrong with it at all; it's how they knew her. And it's pretty hard to switch and they sure aren't going to do it because she became a huge star.

    As Andy pointed out once, the issue is not with those people at all. It's with a very few obsessed fans. As Andy said, it's Diana to everyone else outside of Diana's old Motown friends.

    There are a few people that constantly attack Mary on the internet, on Youtube. Ya, they hurt her feelings. Do they feel good for it? Likely not; they are ill.

    There are two people on this Forum that attack Diana and use Diane to elevate themselves and denigrate Diana; well maybe there is only one, and then another one who giggles along with it. Do they feel good for it? Likely not; they are ill too.

    MaryBrewster said it all in an email we will need to republish shortly.

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    Any way, like I said. No one is carrying on about Diane but you guys.

  41. #41
    dianesfan_1965 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I loved Walk the Line. I thought Mary killed that song on Arsenio and it was clear the crowd was really into it, too.

    I like that song too. I've always enjoyed it when she sings it live.

  42. #42
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    Why would anyone on this forum want to call Diana "Diane" just to antagonize other members? That would be childishly petty and morally wrong. Surely no one here would sink to that level.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    This song would not have worked for Mary Wilson at all! U is the song that should have brought her back I love that song its in her key, it was hip, and it still stands up now. Its a smooth song and the video was perfect for her I enjoy this video more than Walk the Line although I like the song Walk the Line! Holiday was a teeny bopper song and if Madonna didnt have a hit with it, the song could have gone to someone like Kim Wilde, Expose, Debbie Gibson or someone like that. Ross would not have had a hit with it I think it would have tanked like Working Overtime. Everyone I know who heard Working Overtime [[for the little bit of radio play it got) hated it that is why I could see Miss Ross winning with this song or Mary Wilson. When I saw Mary do Walk the Line on Arsenio Hall I thought the record would get good promotion but I have always felt that song needed some remixing or something to give it a little more punch.

    Marys vocals were fine on Walk the Line but there was something missing in the music I think it should have been faster or something.
    I agree with you about "U" but 1986 was obviously her year to come back, not '96. Diana was having trouble placing on the charts by then, so how could Mary stand a chance when "Take Me Higher" couldn't even hit big?

    But as far as Holiday, what has that song got to do with Workin' Overtime?? Are you kidding, Holiday was soooo Diana-esque, and if an unknown Mad Donna could hit #16 with it, it's safe to say Diana would have gone Top 10. After all, this was 1983. Imagine if "Holiday" had been Diana's single during Central Park instead if "Pieces of Ice"? It's a no-brainer.

    In fact, Diana singing "Holiday" with its lyrics of 'bring back all of the happy days' would have been the perfect equivalent of Streisand singing "Happy Days Are Here Again" at her Central Park concert in '67.
    Last edited by Sugarchilehoneybaby; 02-10-2012 at 09:47 PM.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by BobC View Post
    I loved Walk the Line. I thought Mary killed that song on Arsenio and it was clear the crowd was really into it, too.
    Well sure, but she basically copied Diana's performance of "The Force Behind The Power" on Arsenio the year prior. Cute black dress, check. Chorus, check. Foray into the audience, check. Million-dollar smile, check. Mid-tempo R&B song with lyrics about doing the right thing? Check.

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    MADONNA was the ultimate diva of a brand new toy called MTV; THAT is what sold her, and they were only interested in new, current acts at the time, whoever had videos

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarchilehoneybaby View Post
    Well sure, but she basically copied Diana's performance of "The Force Behind The Power" on Arsenio the year prior. Cute black dress, check. Chorus, check. Foray into the audience, check. Million-dollar smile, check. Mid-tempo R&B song with lyrics about doing the right thing? Check.
    You are nuts! Mary looked hot and her body was like PA POW! LOL!!! She sang out strong and made all of her marks! Copy Diane Ross my a** ! LOL! Did you even see both performances? Diane looked like a skinny school marm ala "Olive Oil", forgot words and ended still standing in the audience once the music stopped abruptly! Check this out:


  47. #47
    atcsm Guest
    That is great - she looks fantastic. So I'm assuming this charted higher than Force Behind the Power? You are the expert at chart performances, so I'm sure you'll have the the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You are nuts! Mary looked hot and her body was like PA POW! LOL!!! She sang out strong and made all of her marks! Copy Diane Ross my a** ! LOL! Did you even see both performances? Diane looked like a skinny school marm ala "Olive Oil", forgot words and ended still standing in the audience once the music stopped abruptly! Check this out:


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    Quote Originally Posted by atcsm View Post
    That is great - she looks fantastic. So I'm assuming this charted higher than Force Behind the Power? You are the expert at chart performances, so I'm sure you'll have the the answer.
    I don't know. I do know that was a bad-assed record and badder performance! Show three of these new chicks that can do that live? Mary Rocks! LOL!

  49. #49
    atcsm Guest
    But you are the master of chart performances - did this chart higher than FBP?

  50. #50
    ladonna Guest
    Seriously?! Y'all enjoyed this? At best this song is mediocre, but Mary's performance brought it to life. IMO, this stands alongside Miss Ross's Swept Away, Eaten Alive, and Dirty Looks. All okayish, but ultimately, forgettable. Mary is MUCH better singing ballads, jazz, and blues. Did Arsenio interview her? Now THAT I would love to see. Borrowing Miss Ross's Central Park cape idea was a nice touch; no?

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