If you were Berry Gordy or Diana Ross

[topdiva1]

Still in all - very few like Gordy, Ross, or even Wilson could really want this film made using the Peter Benjaminson book - for it is a great book - that does not show them in a great bright loving light - including Flo at times.

Flo was robbed - regardless of even it she did it to herself - fire her - but pay her - do not cheat her.

[marv2]

Still in all - very few like Gordy, Ross, or even Wilson could really want this film made using the Peter Benjaminson book - for it is a great book - that does not show them in a great bright loving light - including Flo at times.

Flo was robbed - regardless of even it she did it to herself - fire her - but pay her - do not cheat her.

You're right. She was intentionally made to suffer. How someone can defend that is beyond me.

[RossHolloway]

To me Diana Ross [[and Berry Gordy) are survivors. Everything worth telling about the Supreme's has already been told. All the rumors and gossip has already been put out there by her haters. And yet she still rises!! People are still fascinated by her and the time she spent in the Supremes and people all over the world still flock to see her in concert. Motown made lots of singers famous, and alot of those singers and songwriters and producers got very wealth in the process: Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie. It launched the careers of many others including people like Michael Jackson, Rick James and Teena Marie. Isn't it interesting that Stevie Wonder has remained with the Motown label for almost 50 years...that has to say something. Not everyone walked away from Motown broke or poor. Many of the original artist can still make a living touring the world from songs that they recorded over 40 years ago! There is nothing that TopDiva or Merv2 can say or write that will EVER change my image of Diana and Berry or the love and respect that I have for them, and all the others connected with Motown. If you wern't there then you don't know what all went on between 1960 - 1970. If you are not Berry, Diana, Mary or Florence then you have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Only those four people know the complete story, the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. What the Supremes and Motown made for the world continues to live on and lift up all those who respect and honor their work. And I'm at the front of that line.

[marv2]

Captain - you need to reread this book SECRETS OF A SPARROW if you say with authority that "..never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk", here my dear are just a few times in that book that Diana did indicate that Flo Ballard was a drunk.

Page 134

"She [[FLO) went on to hard liquor. Often when we went on stage she would be completely out of it and it seemed as if she just didn't care."

Page 135

"But here we were, as excited as we could be, and then Florence showed up, late and drunk".

"We just saw her [[FLO) as an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself."

page 136

"Florence was drunk and she was yelling and carrying on".

"I didn't want to tell him [[GORDY) how drunk Florence was....."


Now Diana Ross may not of said FLO BALLARD IS A DRUNK - but her above quotes and many others indicate what she felt about Florence Ballard - for more on this subject you need to careful re-read SECRETS OF A SPARROW as do the Ballard sisters. I will close with another Ross quote that truly expresses her feelings from page 136 of her own self written bio,

"At the beginning of 1967, by mutual consent, Florence left the group"

My question - by whose mutual consent - and Flo left or was fired in June/July 1967, how in the hell is that the beginning of 1967.

Ross then continues in her own words on page 136

"Although we were very sad things hadn't worked out with Florence, we a;so breathed a sigh of relief. We were tired of having to cope with her moods and trying to take care of her".

In her own words Diana Ross wrote what she felt as her truth - does she want this on the silver scene - I think not.

INVESTIGATE - before you make statements - Diana Ross may not of called Florence Ballard an out and out bitchy drunk diva - but Diana Ross certainly implied it in this and other incidents.

The only time Diana Ross mentions Florence Ballard, she trashes her. Sad.

[marv2]

To me Diana Ross [[and Berry Gordy) are survivors. Everything worth telling about the Supreme's has already been told. All the rumors and gossip has already been put out there by her haters. And yet she still rises!! People are still fascinated by her and the time she spent in the Supremes and people all over the world still flock to see her in concert. Motown made lots of singers famous, and alot of those singers and songwriters and producers got very wealth in the process: Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie. It launched the careers of many others including people like Michael Jackson, Rick James and Teena Marie. Isn't it interesting that Stevie Wonder has remained with the Motown label for almost 50 years...that has to say something. Not everyone walked away from Motown broke or poor. Many of the original artist can still make a living touring the world from songs that they recorded over 40 years ago! There is nothing that TopDiva or Merv2 can say or write that will EVER change my image of Diana and Berry or the love and respect that I have for them, and all the others connected with Motown. If you wern't there then you don't know what all went on between 1960 - 1970. If you are not Berry, Diana, Mary or Florence then you have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Only those four people know the complete story, the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. What the Supremes and Motown made for the world continues to live on and lift up all those who respect and honor their work. And I'm at the front of that line.

That is my whole point! We are not trying to change your image of Diane. I want you to die loving Diane as you do. I simply want those that believed that the film Dreamgirl was the true story of Florence Ballard to see a film based on her actual life and experiences.

[RossHolloway]

The only time Diana Ross mentions Florence Ballard, she trashes her. Sad.

And everyone who knows the story of the Supremes and Diana Ross knows that's not the truth.

[topdiva1]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.

[RossHolloway]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.

But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.

[nomis]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

[marv2]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.

I don't think they want this film made either just judging by their reaction to the fictional play and film "Dreamgirls". In Flo's movie, they are going to called by their names............!

[simplysupreme]

I just want to know why you people are saying it's wrong for Diana to write about Florence drinking and showing up to gigs hungover but Mary was allowed to do it when she wrote her book? I think Mary writes about Flo being drunk more than Diana did. I love Flo, she is my favorite member of the original three but the way I feel...Flo got herself fired. Are you gonna let one of your employees get away with not coming into work, showing up drunk or throwing a drink in your face? Flo wasn't treated right in some circumstances I agree but all 4 of them [[Flo, Diana, Mary and Berry) all played a part in Flo's firing. Flo rebelled, Diana tattled, Mary was a two faced bitch and Berry instigated. Also I think a lot of people forget Flo and Diana were still friends after she left the group, someone posted a while ago about how Diana visited Flo in the early 70s and they chatted for hours and don't forget Diana tried to save Flo's house but Tommy intervened. And don't forget Flo went to Diana months before she died asking her to help her get back into the music industry. Flo's own cousin even said on that recent Unsung special Flo knew she did it to herself and she knew it was her fault she was let go from the group.

Floy, Floy, Floy, Floy Joy....you're the man!

[marv2]

I just want to know why you people are saying it's wrong for Diana to write about Florence drinking and showing up to gigs hungover but Mary was allowed to do it when she wrote her book? I think Mary writes about Flo being drunk more than Diana did. I love Flo, she is my favorite member of the original three but the way I feel...Flo got herself fired. Are you gonna let one of your employees get away with not coming into work, showing up drunk or throwing a drink in your face? Flo wasn't treated right in some circumstances I agree but all 4 of them [[Flo, Diana, Mary and Berry) all played a part in Flo's firing. Flo rebelled, Diana tattled, Mary was a two faced bitch and Berry instigated. Also I think a lot of people forget Flo and Diana were still friends after she left the group, someone posted a while ago about how Diana visited Flo in the early 70s and they chatted for hours and don't forget Diana tried to save Flo's house but Tommy intervened. And don't forget Flo went to Diana months before she died asking her to help her get back into the music industry. Flo's own cousin even said on that recent Unsung special Flo knew she did it to herself and she knew it was her fault she was let go from the group.

This is Florence speaking here:

[captainjames]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

ditto me too.

[marv2]

Here is Flo's interview with Dave Diles in Detroit:

[sophisticated_soul]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

Me too._____

[ralpht]

RossHolloway,
Regarding your 11:03 post: Well said.

[topdiva1]

But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.

A comment on the thread yes or no would have done very nicely, indeed. - However, I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy wouldn't give a rats ass about what you or anybody things - that's the problem - they think they are above us, one and all - including you.

[topdiva1]

This is Florence speaking here:

Since some of you think that Berry Gordy doesn't give a rats ass about this film being made - then he will not mind this segment that will surely be depicted in the film, if made.

And yes - I agree with you - Berry Gordy does not give a rats ass about anyone but himself, not the fans that made him rich, though the performers he cheated, and no, not me, and especially not you. So we are in complete agreement.

[topdiva1]

Here is Flo's interview with Dave Diles in Detroit:

Flo states - in her own words - she wanted to be there but couldn't. Flo's own words will show us all just what she thought in the days just before her shocking death.

[marybrewster]

RossHolloway; that was a brilliant, well thought-out post. Not once did you feel the need to drag others down to bring other up.

Thank you.

[topdiva1]

But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.

Don't be so sure that they don't care what people think about them. The whole image of Motown was built on what Gordy made people think his company was - and you did not find out different until the 70's when people really started to talk from within. But sure your right - Diana and Gordy along with many stars do not gave a rats ass - as you so nicely put it about thefans - just the fans money and what it could buy themselves.

"What money can't buy I can't use" by Berry Gordy -

So I vote Hell No - Diane and Berry do not want any film made - even a fake story like Dreamgirls - that could be mistaken for themselves and the things they did and did not do. Not tearing these two great people down - just saving look at the B side.

[blueskies]

RossHolloway; that was a brilliant, well thought-out post. Not once did you feel the need to drag others down to bring other up.

Thank you.

Excellent and ditto!

[jobeterob]

Excellent and ditto!

Ross & Mary & Ralph......................Excellent and Ditto.

Ross, where have you been all these years?

[marv2]

Don't be so sure that they don't care what people think about them. The whole image of Motown was built on what Gordy made people think his company was - and you did not find out different until the 70's when people really started to talk from within. But sure your right - Diana and Gordy along with many stars do not gave a rats ass - as you so nicely put it about thefans - just the fans money and what it could buy themselves.

"What money can't buy I can't use" by Berry Gordy -

So I vote Hell No - Diane and Berry do not want any film made - even a fake story like Dreamgirls - that could be mistaken for themselves and the things they did and did not do. Not tearing these two great people down - just saving look at the B side.

I vote NO, they would not want a film about Florence Ballard made.

[RossHolloway]

Ross & Mary & Ralph......................Excellent and Ditto.

Ross, where have you been all these years?

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

[topdiva1]

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

While the baby may cry itself to sleep - it may never have the knowledge to answer a simple question. A question that does not in any way taint any further the legend of Berry Gordy's Motown.

[sophisticated_soul]

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

Thank you Ross. When I read your earlier post I was very moved. As was stated before not once did you feel the need to bring someone down to lift some else up. I thought you wonderful words were eloquent and fair. But I also though they would likely fall on deaf ears. I am very happy to stand corrected. Thank you for being willing to stand up against the negativity that is bringing such harm to the forum. I thank you and offer my support.

[marv2]

- The truth will set you free!
- You cannot add or take away from the truth!
- You cannot hide from the truth, it is pure, it is divine, it will blind you!
- Negativity in this case was born out of the actions of several of the main subjects discussed here.
- There are those that do not like to hear the Gospel, so they stay away. They do not like to hear it because it causes them pain and is prohibitive towards some things in life that bring them pleasure, moral or immoral.
- Sweeping dirt under the rug, does not make your house clean!
- Hating the messenger or message of truth is fundementally wrong.
- Pretending to be offended where there was nothing profane is disingenuous!
- I have more respect for an honest thief, than I do for a liar!
- Karma, the law of moral causation- humans have free will to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences, which require the will of God to implement karma's consequences [[have mercy!) You reap what you sow, good or bad!

and finally, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig!

[topdiva1]

People - we have a lot of thoughts here - but few "YES" or "NO" answers - to the question.

[jobeterob]

Opinions and discussions are always welcome and variety and diverse opinions are the spice of life and educate us all.

But the negativity drives many people away.

Berry Gordy and Diana Ross are the people responsible for bringing R & B to Middle America and Britain and Canada. They are the people that tuned the world in to Billie Holiday.

And we are reduced to calling them "pigs"? It is not what you hear from their colleagues. Discussions are warranted but not something verging on "hate mail".

Something is wrong here in a couple of respects.