Jules Podell and Flo Ballard

**Roberta75** · 11-14-2013, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Does anyone else feel that when a poster constantly drops foul language in his posts that it completely destroys the credibility he craves for? Copy and send to the forum owner

Its real amazing to me what he gets away with here. Every single thread he post in he takes it south. its a disgarce really. Ive never known anyone who is more obsess with Diane Ross that marv2. Its real disturbing and real sad imo.

**antceleb12** · 11-14-2013, 09:14 PM

After reading a lot of the material out there about the Supremes and their individual relationships [[grant it, some of it might not be the most credible), I truly believe that Mary, Diana, Flo, and Cindy cared for each other [[obviously to a lesser extent with Flo and Cindy). Sure, they had their troubles. You put three women together in close proximities - every day for years at a stretch - of course they're going to have their problems! I'm certain most of their issues were probably not as big as a lot of us think, but because they were who they were, the media and fans magnified their issues ten-fold. Diana [[understandably) does not like to talk about a lot of that part of her life, there are a million of hearsay stories about actual [[and fictional) events, and, most importantly, Florence is not hear to give her side of the story. Therefor, we can argue about who back-stabbed who, or what Berry and Diana's intentions were with Flo, but - the truth is - we will never know!

**rod_rick** · 11-14-2013, 09:20 PM

I have to agree with you Brad. The first time I remember Diana lending Mary money was in Mary's book. Also if a person do not let it be know you are in trouble how can you help them. People in show business always like to put a positive spin on things unless they are truly dogging someone out. I could be wrong but I think that Cindy has gotten the help she needed because I sent a check in September and it has not been cashed or returned. As for Mary omitting things from her book, her goal was to get the book published so I'm sure there are a lot of things left out her book just like Ms Ross left things out of her book. For example Mary didn't put a thing regarding Rhonda being Berry's daughter in her book, and I don't recall Diana saying anything about pleading with Berry to keep Flo in the groupor her possibly resenting Flo from being less than professional. It was nice to hear of Gil's account of the situation with the Supremes. Now he should right a book.
How did Gil feel about Cindy Birdsong?

**jobeterob** · 11-14-2013, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Its real amazing to me what he gets away with here. Every single thread he post in he takes it south. its a disgarce really. Ive never known anyone who is more obsess with Diane Ross that marv2. Its real disturbing and real sad imo.

I've asked our young gentleman, Brad, to give humility, research, accuracy and behaviour lessons to Marv.

Because Brad is so highly regarded and a gentleman and Marv is a pariah.

I'll report on my success.

**rod_rick** · 11-14-2013, 09:28 PM

Why do you guys care about what Marv says? If you don't like it just ignore his post, but NOOOOOO, I think some of you get a kick out of going back and fourth with him because you never fail to respond to what he has to say, we get it, he don't like Diana Ross. Some of us is smart enough to read through al the BS and I mean all of the BS on both sides of the arguments.

**BayouMotownMan** · 11-14-2013, 09:44 PM

Diana Ross has been quite generous to her fellow singing partners AND their families. She tried to intervene when Florence was about to lose her house. Flo's husband wanted the check made payable to him. She wisely declined. She has helped Flo's daughters financially, when Michelle had brain surgery some years ago Diana paid for it. She set up a trust fund for those girls which apparently was mishandled by Flo's family. She has helped out Mary and Cindy more than once.

Of course there comes a time when one must gauge how much cash one is going to dole out on the same person. Miss Ross feels, as I'm sure most would, that her resources are not an endless well, she has children and grandchildren whose futures she wants secured, and at some point a person must take responsibility for themselves.

**marv2** · 11-14-2013, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

I'm sure Mary asked for the money saying that she would pay it back. The point is- she helped Mary and didn't publicize it.

...and Mary, [[and Florence) have never helped Diane? Get outta Dodge!

**marv2** · 11-14-2013, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by rod_rick

Why do you guys care about what Marv says? If you don't like it just ignore his post, but NOOOOOO, I think some of you get a kick out of going back and fourth with him because you never fail to respond to what he has to say, we get it, he don't like Diana Ross. Some of us is smart enough to read through al the BS and I mean all of the BS on both sides of the arguments.

Oh they actually get off on it! Because I am NOT a Diana Ross fan, I am their natural target for whatever it is that they think they are doing to me! hehehehehehehe! I know this all sounds almost too lame to believe, but that is it in a nutshell. Anyone of "them" that says otherwise is lying because it is an embarassement to watch/read them behave this way.

**jobeterob** · 11-15-2013, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Oh they actually get off on it! Because I am NOT a Diana Ross fan, I am their natural target for whatever it is that they think they are doing to me! hehehehehehehe! I know this all sounds almost too lame to believe, but that is it in a nutshell. Anyone of "them" that says otherwise is lying because it is an embarassement to watch/read them behave this way.

It's the poor behaviour that does it for me. I have no issue taking Marv to task for it and his mean, sexist, homophobic, hateful comments elsewhere. I'll stand up and am proud to say so.

And I also completely agree that generally "ignoring the troll is the best policy", just not one I choose to follow.

**marv2** · 11-15-2013, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

It's the poor behaviour that does it for me. I have no issue taking Marv to task for it and his mean, sexist, homophobic, hateful comments elsewhere. I'll stand up and am proud to say so.

And I also completely agree that generally "ignoring the troll is the best policy", just not one I choose to follow.

You're about as lame as they come........ I will never forget how you stood up for that racist character that use to be on here several years back. You'll deny it now, but some of us real veterans of this forum remember it and the archives here are perpetual! Now? I could care less about what you have to say because I lost any morsel of respect I could have had for you a very long time ago. You have a deep seated problem that I cannot help you with!

So.........Rock On! Jobeterob, hehehehehehehehe......!!!

**luke** · 11-15-2013, 09:36 AM

Diana loaned Mary money and charged interest. Isnt that what banks do??

**marv2** · 11-15-2013, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Diana loaned Mary money and charged interest. Isnt that what banks do??

Yeah, that's what banks do.........not your childhood friend!
Also, all this talk about Diane sending the money to save Flo's house ? Her fans always leave out the part about her demand that Flo sign 5 blank sheets of paper first before she could get the money. Flo declined to do that and lost her home!

**Roberta75** · 11-15-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Diana loaned Mary money and charged interest. Isnt that what banks do??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmYZVu7Io_A

**jobeterob** · 11-15-2013, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmYZVu7Io_A

A personal relationship between the two or just Mary's personal assistants? Or one obsessed fan and his fan?

**skooldem1** · 11-15-2013, 12:18 PM

Diana makes wise decisions with her money. When you loan people money it is best to get the agreement in writing. You would have to be a fool not to do this. Friends or not.

**Roberta75** · 11-15-2013, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

A personal relationship between the two or just Mary's personal assistants? Or one obsessed fan and his fan?

Love is in the air my dear.

Roberta

**marybrewster** · 11-15-2013, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Diana loaned Mary money and charged interest. Isnt that what banks do??

Yes. Banks also do a credit check. Would Mary have qualified for a loan? I don't know what her financial situation was at the time [[nor do I know it now), but one would assume that asking Diana was a last resort. Mary stated herself she was very fortunate to have a friend like Diana; one with the means to assist her through a rough patch.

Diana would be a fool to make any type of loan without something in writing. It's just something you just do. Maybe not for $20.00, but I assume Mary [[and Florence) borrowed much more than that.

**marybrewster** · 11-15-2013, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

Diana makes wise decisions with her money. When you loan people money it is best to get the agreement in writing. You would have to be a fool not to do this. Friends or not.

Exactly. Does anyone on here watch Judge Judy? LOL.

**franjoy56** · 11-17-2013, 03:00 AM

Little did Jules Podell know that Flo was right under his nose staying at a York Avenue duplex apartment in the spring of 1968 when she started recording her solo tracks right down the road to the east side of Manhattan.

**Roberta75** · 11-17-2013, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by franjoy56

Little did Jules Podell know that Flo was right under his nose staying at a York Avenue duplex apartment in the spring of 1968 when she started recording her solo tracks right down the road to the east side of Manhattan.

Then why didnt Flo or tommy tell mr Podell. If he was that fond of Flo then hed probably have booked her for the Copa Frances.

Roberta

supremester · 11-17-2013, 03:40 AM

Relax Miss Thang - don't get your panties in a bunch over a press interview from 40 years ago over a very sensitive subject. That was the company line. Geeesh. This from a guy who idolizes a woman who claimed for years she she and Miss Ross :saw each other and talked a lot more than the public knows""" LOLOLOLOL Get over your dress, honey - it's wrinkled!

Originally Posted by marv2

Not here! Here she lies about Flo and says that Flo wanted to go into another kind of business career, that Flo wanted to be off for a while and travel to some islands and relax somewhere........ HA! She also talks about Cindy being Flo's understudy and that they had ANOTHER understudy [[for Mary?).......

So are you sure you know what you are talking about? hmmmmm.........

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Arc...78265/?page=12

**marv2** · 11-17-2013, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Then why didnt Flo or tommy tell mr Podell. If he was that fond of Flo then hed probably have booked her for the Copa Frances.

Roberta

No shit Sherlock! Florence was in the advance stages of pregnancy by that time and spend some days and some nights in the recording studio while in New York. She had no time to put together an entire for the Copa.

**Roberta75** · 11-17-2013, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

No shit Sherlock! Florence was in the advance stages of pregnancy by that time and spend some days and some nights in the recording studio while in New York. She had no time to put together an entire for the Copa.

But given mr podells fondness for dear Florence wouldnt he still met with Flo and tommy and been real happy to book Flo into the copa after the twins was born.
another missed opportunity for poor Florence imo.

**antceleb12** · 11-17-2013, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

But given mr podells fondness for dear Florence wouldnt he still met with Flo and tommy and been real happy to book Flo into the copa after the twins was born.
another missed opportunity for poor Florence imo.

Who knows? Maybe she did. As much as Jules might have loved Flo, he had a business to run. Let's be honest. Whatever act Florence did have, it was probably nowhere near Copa-ready. Or, Tommy might have "advised" her not to do so. Or, it might not have ever crossed her mind at all. Regardless, if she could have landed a Copa gig, that would have been great for her.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 11-17-2013, 10:47 AM

a solo Florence Ballard would have never been booked in the Copa without , minimum, a hit record of her own, not in a million years would she be booked in any room like that..I'm sure Podell liked his family members, but he didn't book them, either, if he wanted to stay in business..

**marv2** · 11-17-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

a solo Florence Ballard would have never been booked in the Copa without , minimum, a hit record of her own, not in a million years would she be booked in any room like that..I'm sure Podell liked his family members, but he didn't book them, either, if he wanted to stay in business..

Yet she performed at the Inuaguration Ball in 1969........ All she needed was the right record company and management.

**Roberta75** · 11-17-2013, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by antceleb12

Who knows? Maybe she did. As much as Jules might have loved Flo, he had a business to run. Let's be honest. Whatever act Florence did have, it was probably nowhere near Copa-ready. Or, Tommy might have "advised" her not to do so. Or, it might not have ever crossed her mind at all. Regardless, if she could have landed a Copa gig, that would have been great for her.

Maybe Flo was just real tired of the business and wanted out. She really should never have allowed tommy to be her manager just like Mary shouldnt have allowed that violent Ferrer man to manage the 70s supremes. Oh well all water under to.he bridge now.

Have a blessed and beutiful sunday.

Roberta

**franjoy56** · 11-19-2013, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Maybe Flo was just real tired of the business and wanted out. She really should never have allowed tommy to be her manager just like Mary shouldnt have allowed that violent Ferrer man to manage the 70s supremes. Oh well all water under to.he bridge now.

Have a blessed and beutiful sunday.

Roberta

I have to agree with you on that one, chapman and Ferrer destroyed two thirds of the original Supremes.

**milven** · 11-19-2013, 09:09 AM

Seldom does a husband make a good manager for his wife's career. Sometimes, they not only mess up your career, but they also mess up your finances.

**Roberta75** · 11-19-2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by milven

Seldom does a husband make a good manager for his wife's career. Sometimes, they not only mess up your career, but they also mess up your finances.

And sadly in the case of Pedro Ferrer and Ike Turner they mess up your face as well.

Roberta

**antceleb12** · 11-19-2013, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Maybe Flo was just real tired of the business and wanted out. She really should never have allowed tommy to be her manager just like Mary shouldnt have allowed that violent Ferrer man to manage the 70s supremes. Oh well all water under to.he bridge now.

Have a blessed and beutiful sunday.

Roberta

I have to agree. Flo was given the opportunity to stay with Motown, ironically, but she turned it down. I think she could have done a lot better had she used someone with credibility as her manager and had more motivation. She just seemed burned out.

**Motown Andy** · 11-19-2013, 12:29 PM

Back to the original question... I think the Flo situation was more about legalities rather than emotional attachments. Let's take what we know:
1. Cindy first subbed at the Hollywood Bowl April 29, she is not introduced as a Supreme. More importantly, Cindy is still under contract as a Bluebelle. I believe I read somewhere they had difficulty buying out her contract.
2. Flo was back with the girls May 7 for their performance on the Ed Sullivan Show, so while it is plausible that Jules Podell wanted Flo, it is unlikely this was even an issue, she was already back with the group.
3. Berry was making plans to replace Flo, which Flo, Mary, Berry, Shelly and Gil all acknowledged. Their next gig, two weeks at the Copa, May 11-24, was recorded to Acetate and given to Cindy to study.
4. May 22, the girls appear on the Tonight Show, which acknowledges Flo's stand-in at the Bowl.
5. Several engagments between May and June, Cindy following them at all/most performances, and Flo knows she is there. This culminates with Flo's final performance at the Flamingo. Cindy gets a contract, and Flo is released from hers.

It's sad and tragic, but I don't think any of this rested on Jules Podell's shoulders. They took the steps that most companies do to replace someone.

**antceleb12** · 11-19-2013, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Motown Andy

Back to the original question... I think the Flo situation was more about legalities rather than emotional attachments. Let's take what we know:
1. Cindy first subbed at the Hollywood Bowl April 29, she is not introduced as a Supreme. More importantly, Cindy is still under contract as a Bluebelle. I believe I read somewhere they had difficulty buying out her contract.
2. Flo was back with the girls May 7 for their performance on the Ed Sullivan Show, so while it is plausible that Jules Podell wanted Flo, it is unlikely this was even an issue, she was already back with the group.
3. Berry was making plans to replace Flo, which Flo, Mary, Berry, Shelly and Gil all acknowledged. Their next gig, two weeks at the Copa, May 11-24, was recorded to Acetate and given to Cindy to study.
4. May 22, the girls appear on the Tonight Show, which acknowledges Flo's stand-in at the Bowl.
5. Several engagments between May and June, Cindy following them at all/most performances, and Flo knows she is there. This culminates with Flo's final performance at the Flamingo. Cindy gets a contract, and Flo is released from hers.

It's sad and tragic, but I don't think any of this rested on Jules Podell's shoulders. They took the steps that most companies do to replace someone.

Hey Andy, good fact check. Everything you said is true. However, I think the Jules situation was the previous year, in 1966, when the Supremes were making their second appearance at the Copa. So, regardless, Jules would not have factored in the 1967 Flo-Cindy situation.

**captainjames** · 11-19-2013, 08:50 PM

Thanks Andy
......................now can you help with one more concern...
If all of these negotiations were going on,,, how did Patti, Nona and Sarah not know ?

smark21 · 11-19-2013, 09:20 PM

In other words, if Cindy had been able to break her contract quickly, then Flo would not have been asked back into the group?

supremester · 11-21-2013, 05:13 AM

I'll tell you what her situation was : she had moved in with her mother and filled the house until it was bursting. As for the loan: anyone with a CPA or even an annual association with HR Block can tell you loans MUST have an interest charged or it is considered a gift and tax must be paid. It can be nominal - maybe even less than prime - I'm not sure - but it must be charged and paid or the IRS will visit. Mary, being so popular, puzzles me why she went to mean mean mean Miss Ross who had treated her so shabbily for so many years. Why not go to Flip, Tom, Otis, Pedro, Steve, GC Cameron, ..........or Duke [[ I wonder if Duke paid for her trips to Mexico in '67 & '68........? Anyway, I digress.) Interest was correctly charged. Had it been a high amount, LaMare wooda named a chapter after it.................page 106 "Sixteen points over Prime...." .............. As for Flo's five pieces of white: that's an insult even for Marv's poison pen. Like Judge Judy says: if it isn't logical, it didn't happen. Now what, exactly, would Miss Ross do with 5 autographs from my own personal Miss Flo? Steal her Food Stamps???? Gurrrrrl........get yourself a grip and hold on tight - break a nail if you have to, but hold on tight! .........................@Marvina: Don't be playing the racism card when you play it yourself better than most. Any form of bigotry IS bigotry and the hate you direct to others, inspires hatred in the hearts of others toward you. As Jesus said: "What you say to your enemies, you say to me."

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Yes. Banks also do a credit check. Would Mary have qualified for a loan? I don't know what her financial situation was at the time [[nor do I know it now), but one would assume that asking Diana was a last resort. Mary stated herself she was very fortunate to have a friend like Diana; one with the means to assist her through a rough patch.

Diana would be a fool to make any type of loan without something in writing. It's just something you just do. Maybe not for $20.00, but I assume Mary [[and Florence) borrowed much more than that.

supremester · 11-21-2013, 05:51 AM

And, maybe those vomit bags that beat their wives do it because underneath it all, those wives are stronger than their so-called men. Both Tina and Mary survived and overcame that ultimate betrayal. I hope Pedro and Ike both had many boyfriends in prison.

Originally Posted by Roberta75

And sadly in the case of Pedro Ferrer and Ike Turner they mess up your face as well.

Roberta

supremester · 11-21-2013, 06:00 AM

The whole thing is a moot point. Flo was never kicked out of The Supremes until July. They did a short version of their act at The Bowl in late April with Cindy, but did The Happening when it was #1 probably the very next week on Sullivan with Flo - including The Millie Medley so Flo had to be in the group to learn the routine and get fitted for those hideous "Flapper" costumes. Podell couldn't possibly have suspected Flo was going just from Cindy's one gig. Marlene had done over a dozen and Podell didn't get nosey. They were at The Copa a week or two after that and Cindy was still a Bluebell. I'm sure Podell loved Flo, but the story.........just don't add up. It's great lore, though!

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

a solo Florence Ballard would have never been booked in the Copa without , minimum, a hit record of her own, not in a million years would she be booked in any room like that..I'm sure Podell liked his family members, but he didn't book them, either, if he wanted to stay in business..

**jillfoster** · 11-21-2013, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Does anyone else feel that when a poster constantly drops foul language in his posts that it completely destroys the credibility he craves for? Copy and send to the forum owner

Did you feel it destroyed your credibility when you sold dozens upon dozens of Supemes photos on ebay that you didn't own the rights to?

**Roberta75** · 11-21-2013, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

Did you feel it destroyed your credibility when you sold dozens upon dozens of Surpemes photos on ebay that you didn't own the rights to?

You just cant help youself dude.

**jillfoster** · 11-21-2013, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

You just cant help youself dude.

I just like popping the bubbles of people who act like their shit don't stink.

**Roberta75** · 11-21-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

I just like popping the bubbles of people who act like their shit don't stink.

Bless you. xxxx

supremester · 11-21-2013, 04:30 PM

Wow - thank you for the timeline - it's even more clear with exact dates. I wonder though, what would have happened if Flo didn't act out that night? What if she got it together and was happy and content?

Originally Posted by Motown Andy

Back to the original question... I think the Flo situation was more about legalities rather than emotional attachments. Let's take what we know:
1. Cindy first subbed at the Hollywood Bowl April 29, she is not introduced as a Supreme. More importantly, Cindy is still under contract as a Bluebelle. I believe I read somewhere they had difficulty buying out her contract.
2. Flo was back with the girls May 7 for their performance on the Ed Sullivan Show, so while it is plausible that Jules Podell wanted Flo, it is unlikely this was even an issue, she was already back with the group.
3. Berry was making plans to replace Flo, which Flo, Mary, Berry, Shelly and Gil all acknowledged. Their next gig, two weeks at the Copa, May 11-24, was recorded to Acetate and given to Cindy to study.
4. May 22, the girls appear on the Tonight Show, which acknowledges Flo's stand-in at the Bowl.
5. Several engagments between May and June, Cindy following them at all/most performances, and Flo knows she is there. This culminates with Flo's final performance at the Flamingo. Cindy gets a contract, and Flo is released from hers.

It's sad and tragic, but I don't think any of this rested on Jules Podell's shoulders. They took the steps that most companies do to replace someone.

supremester · 11-21-2013, 04:59 PM

I've always felt part of Diana's Flo issue was that she genuinely cared for Flo, but was beyond angry and annoyed at her for the reasons one would suspect, so she would be torn - but also remember Flo was popular and everyone at Motown knew that. Firing Flo was a gamble and I think it was harder for Miss Ross to roll those dice than Berry. I recall one interview specifically that she wondered at the time if the public would accept "the new group" and if not, maybe she would go out as a solo. To give late bloomers an idea of Flo's je ne sais quoi: of the two, Mary was classically much prettier and way more talented as a vocalist - yet Flo was by far more popular. A trio with 10 #1's in less than three years? You don't mess with it unless you absolutely have to. Gil loved Cindy, and at the time, I was still anti-Cindy, so I didn't beyond his comments on her. He did say about JML, wistfully, "....I just hated to see that group break up...." It's not true that he never worked with The Supremes after Lady, as he still did some of their charts and conducted when he wasn't out with Ross.

Originally Posted by rod_rick

I have to agree with you Brad. The first time I remember Diana lending Mary money was in Mary's book. Also if a person do not let it be know you are in trouble how can you help them. People in show business always like to put a positive spin on things unless they are truly dogging someone out. I could be wrong but I think that Cindy has gotten the help she needed because I sent a check in September and it has not been cashed or returned. As for Mary omitting things from her book, her goal was to get the book published so I'm sure there are a lot of things left out her book just like Ms Ross left things out of her book. For example Mary didn't put a thing regarding Rhonda being Berry's daughter in her book, and I don't recall Diana saying anything about pleading with Berry to keep Flo in the groupor her possibly resenting Flo from being less than professional. It was nice to hear of Gil's account of the situation with the Supremes. Now he should right a book.
How did Gil feel about Cindy Birdsong?

supremester · 11-21-2013, 05:01 PM

and 18 Aunts and Uncles with 7 billion cousins all needing braces and college. I hear she is VERY generous to her extended family.

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Diana Ross has been quite generous to her fellow singing partners AND their families. She tried to intervene when Florence was about to lose her house. Flo's husband wanted the check made payable to him. She wisely declined. She has helped Flo's daughters financially, when Michelle had brain surgery some years ago Diana paid for it. She set up a trust fund for those girls which apparently was mishandled by Flo's family. She has helped out Mary and Cindy more than once.

Of course there comes a time when one must gauge how much cash one is going to dole out on the same person. Miss Ross feels, as I'm sure most would, that her resources are not an endless well, she has children and grandchildren whose futures she wants secured, and at some point a person must take responsibility for themselves.

supremester · 11-21-2013, 05:08 PM

The twins were born prematurely in Oct '68 and Flo had a lot of time before that to work with Cholly. She didn't have a manager or someone to put her act together. I cannot recall if Gil helped her or not, I think maybe he did. I gotta dig out those tapes. .

Originally Posted by Roberta75

But given mr podells fondness for dear Florence wouldnt he still met with Flo and tommy and been real happy to book Flo into the copa after the twins was born.
another missed opportunity for poor Florence imo.

supremester · 11-21-2013, 05:13 PM

Not everyone has as severe of a problem with that as perhaps you do. Try more fiber and lean in a vegan sort of way to see if that helps. Personally, since people buy those pics, he is doing them a favor.

Originally Posted by jillfoster

I just like popping the bubbles of people who act like their shit don't stink.

**jobeterob** · 11-21-2013, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Motown Andy

Back to the original question... I think the Flo situation was more about legalities rather than emotional attachments. Let's take what we know:
1. Cindy first subbed at the Hollywood Bowl April 29, she is not introduced as a Supreme. More importantly, Cindy is still under contract as a Bluebelle. I believe I read somewhere they had difficulty buying out her contract.
2. Flo was back with the girls May 7 for their performance on the Ed Sullivan Show, so while it is plausible that Jules Podell wanted Flo, it is unlikely this was even an issue, she was already back with the group.
3. Berry was making plans to replace Flo, which Flo, Mary, Berry, Shelly and Gil all acknowledged. Their next gig, two weeks at the Copa, May 11-24, was recorded to Acetate and given to Cindy to study.
4. May 22, the girls appear on the Tonight Show, which acknowledges Flo's stand-in at the Bowl.
5. Several engagments between May and June, Cindy following them at all/most performances, and Flo knows she is there. This culminates with Flo's final performance at the Flamingo. Cindy gets a contract, and Flo is released from hers.

It's sad and tragic, but I don't think any of this rested on Jules Podell's shoulders. They took the steps that most companies do to replace someone.

So simple. So rational.

But it eliminates all the conspiracies and ways to blame Berry & Diana so it is not favored by the obsessed.

**floyjoy678** · 11-21-2013, 10:49 PM

I think people are discussing the Supremes 2nd engagement at the Copa in 1966 and not the one in 1967. In the '67 Copa appearance Florence was back in the group for at least a week by that point, apparently Mary and Diana begged a reluctant Florence to come back and I'm surprised she did. Of course I do often wonder if maybe Berry told Florence she HAD to come back because she was under contract at least for another year.

One thing I'm thinking of [[and have before) is if Berry didn't even buy out Cindy's contract yet then why did he fire Florence so quickly in April? Why didn't he just wait until he had Cindy under contract for Motown to officially fire Florence? Berry was a smart man and I'm sure he knew he was going to run into problems trying to get Cindy and he was taking a risk firing Florence when he was going to need her for at least a couple of more months. I wonder what would have happened if Florence declined to come back into the Supremes. Would they just say "To hell with it?" and just throw Cindy in there anyway? I do remember there was an article in a newspaper from May '67 saying that the Supremes' appearance on Ed Sullivan that month was almost cancelled, I wonder if that was because of Florence's situation.

supremester · 11-22-2013, 12:46 AM

If Hollywood Bowl was April 29, Sullivan May 5 and Copa May 9, then Flo was not fired from anything. I just watched both songs from Sullivan and Flo s about as connected as she ever was, looks good and is smiling and interactive with her lyrics. She misses a few things but it was no biggie as she often did that anyway. She didn't learn that routine in one day but I do think this was one of the Sullivan's The Andantes did that Louvaine talked about. It doesn't make sense Gordy would fire Flo without Cindy being signed. I didn't know anything about the rumored cancellation of the Sullivan appearance, but no way would he have gone with Marlene and then Cindy next time. It HAD to be Flo or they don't go.