Sept 2, 1997 LA Times: Wilson vs. Motown, Ragland and Others

[Roberta75]

if they where ever supremes then they can surely use the name..... another example of the talentless mary Wilson trying to screw someone over.. coz she cant sing and make money

You have no class whatsoever.

Roberta

[midnightman]

Wow... all this time I thought Milton had simply asked Flo to recruit some girls, according to Mary, if this is correct, Diana and Betty were the "two other girls". But yeah, Florence never founded the group, Milton Jenkins started to put the pieces together in the group that eventually became the Supremes. It's quite foolish to state something when Mary stated something else in her book.

[stephanie]

LOL!!!! I had a hard time believing that SFX came back with more people knowing Cindy Birdsong over Mary Wilson. Maybe Cindys name is more memorable [[her last name that is) and if they didnt know who Mary was how did she gain so much power if you will in getting people not to come to the tour even if she was on TV? I always thought from what I read and saw on the news the public knew Wilson and Birdsong.

[detmotownguy]

Marv I was living in Detroit at the time and there was much support for Mary. People were posting newspaper articles on the outside walls of their cubicles! A debacle caused by piss poor planning. A co-worker who is related to one member of the Motown hit making machine got wind of this early on and basically said he'd be surprised if this "thing would get off the ground and get to the first show because it is likely it won't last! I can email additional details. Let me know.

[marv2]

Marv I was living in Detroit at the time and there was much support for Mary. People were posting newspaper articles on the outside walls of their cubicles! A debacle caused by piss poor planning. A co-worker who is related to one member of the Motown hit making machine got wind of this early on and basically said he'd be surprised if this "thing would get off the ground and get to the first show because it is likely it won't last! I can email additional details. Let me know.

I know what you mean. In NYC the week following that big Grand Central Station press conference, it was like "Supremesmania featuring Mary Wilson" all over New York City Metro area. There were live radio call in shows just so that the public could express their displeasure about Mary and Cindy not being on that "reunion " tour. Mary was on the news every night it seemed.

[jobeterob]

I know what you mean. In NYC the week following that big Grand Central Station press conference, it was like "Supremesmania featuring Mary Wilson" all over New York City Metro area. There were live radio call in shows just so that the public could express their displeasure about Mary and Cindy not being on that "reunion " tour. Mary was on the news every night it seemed.

The bad thing is that she lost to Ragland and after being on the news every night, hasn't been heard from again and still is waiting for that elusive hit.

[supremester]

Because Mary lied about everything. She went to the press claiming that Scherrie & Lynda were fake Supremes - a far cry from the begging she did for fans to accept them in the 70's. Then she made up the lies about how much Diana was being paid and succeeded in convincing many that the seed money to produce the show was her pay, making it appear as if Ross was making over 10x what Mary & Cindy were. Anyone with a 3rd grade diploma could figure out that if Ross had been paid the 500k per show, plus Mary & Cindys 250k per show would make their salaries 750k in venues that, if sold out, could only gross 1,1-1.4 million and that was before all expenses to produce the show, operate it and then look for a profit. The press ran with the story and Mary, finally getting press again, wallowed in her fake self-pity after the train left the station. If Mary hadn't resorted to slander and ugly lies, RTL would have done well everywhere. Fast fwd to 2013: Miss Ross is happy as a clam working when she pleases. Mary - so popular that the public refused to see a show without her, failed to launch Sophisticated Ladies - twice, Lena Horne, Up Close, 18 attendees at her final Feinsteins gig, 41 at The Riviera in Vegas, and the permanent Vegas gigs she tried so hard to get are toast. Now her house is up for sale and she's needing work bad. The Chicago gig is a bust so far with almost zero tix sold, balconies shut for all performances, lowest ticket price moved to the main floor and second row seats available for every show. Look for discount seating VERY soon and a possible reduction in performances. THAT is Mary's true power. Without lies and treachery: none at all. If she had declined to tour with class and dignity and truthfulness, and the public stayed away, THAT would be power. LOL

LOL!!!! I had a hard time believing that SFX came back with more people knowing Cindy Birdsong over Mary Wilson. Maybe Cindys name is more memorable [[her last name that is) and if they didnt know who Mary was how did she gain so much power if you will in getting people not to come to the tour even if she was on TV? I always thought from what I read and saw on the news the public knew Wilson and Birdsong.

[jobeterob]

Because Mary lied about everything. She went to the press claiming that Scherrie & Lynda were fake Supremes - a far cry from the begging she did for fans to accept them in the 70's. Then she made up the lies about how much Diana was being paid and succeeded in convincing many that the seed money to produce the show was her pay, making it appear as if Ross was making over 10x what Mary & Cindy were. Anyone with a 3rd grade diploma could figure out that if Ross had been paid the 500k per show, plus Mary & Cindys 250k per show would make their salaries 750k in venues that, if sold out, could only gross 1,1-1.4 million and that was before all expenses to produce the show, operate it and then look for a profit. The press ran with the story and Mary, finally getting press again, wallowed in her fake self-pity after the train left the station. If Mary hadn't resorted to slander and ugly lies, RTL would have done well everywhere. Fast fwd to 2013: Miss Ross is happy as a clam working when she pleases. Mary - so popular that the public refused to see a show without her, failed to launch Sophisticated Ladies - twice, Lena Horne, Up Close, 18 attendees at her final Feinsteins gig, 41 at The Riviera in Vegas, and the permanent Vegas gigs she tried so hard to get are toast. Now her house is up for sale and she's needing work bad. The Chicago gig is a bust so far with almost zero tix sold, balconies shut for all performances, lowest ticket price moved to the main floor and second row seats available for every show. Look for discount seating VERY soon and a possible reduction in performances. THAT is Mary's true power. Without lies and treachery: none at all. If she had declined to tour with class and dignity and truthfulness, and the public stayed away, THAT would be power. LOL

Greg, how do you know the low number of people at her shows and the poor ticket sales in Chicago? Just wondering.

[milven]

Greg, how do you know the low number of people at her shows and the poor ticket sales in Chicago? Just wondering.

Roll the mouse over the back or balcony seats and you will see that none are available.

http://tickets.harristheaterchicago....nceNumber=5804

Usually, that means that that section is closed to buying tickets. Of course if it were a 100% sold out show like KINKY BOOTS, then there would be a different conclusion.

Now roll over the orchrestra section and you will see loads of seats available in that section.

I think it is too soon to call this a failure. But I , too, can see the beginnings of tricks to fill the front seats. Close the back of theatre, offer discount codes [[which I think are already available); cut the number of performances; and , as a last resort, commision Berry Gordy to rip twenty dollar bills in half and give them to paasers by with the promise of giving the other half after they see Mary

[skooldem1]

Tickets just went on sale. People are thinking about Halloween. As we get closer to the Thanksgiving and Christmas, I'm sure ticket sales will increase. More so than it being Mary Wilson that people want to see, people in general like a good "Holiday" show- regardless of who is on the bill. This engagement will do fine.

[Roberta75]

Tickets just went on sale. People are thinking about Halloween. As we get closer to the Thanksgiving and Christmas, I'm sure ticket sales will increase. More so than it being Mary Wilson that people want to see, people in general like a good "Holiday" show- regardless of who is on the bill. This engagement will do fine.

I hope so skooldem as I want this to be a real big hit for Mary Wilson and Duke Fakir. The only think i personally think could put folks of is the ticket prices. $132 dollar top ticket prices seem real high imo for one original Supreme and one original four top. That said I hope the shows do real well for Miss Wilson and Mr Fakir.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

Those tickets prices are too high.

[skooldem1]

I'm sure there will be "Holiday Discounts". Buy one get one free, free giveaways on the radio, and price slashes.

[mwmr]

I'll just add... And tbh I don't really care who on here chooses to believe me - I was with Mary in her dressing room whilst she was on the uk DITS tour with Martha and Edwin. She received a call and asked me to step outside. I did and was chatting to Martha. After a while Mary came out blissfully happy and told Martha and me that she had just been told terms had been reached and she was on the RTL tour. She was very happy and clearly it was a genuine offer/call.
[[spare me the bitching, sly digs, Mary bashing )

[mwmr]

Supremester.. Why do you have to be so nasty btw? Mary makes a decent living , still receives her royalties. Gets plenty of overseas tours, Australia and Russia in the last 12 months as well as a long European tour with Bill Whyman. Sure Mary doesn't play the same size venues as Miss Diane but people still pay to see her and still want to see her irregardless of your opinion.

[milven]

....Mary came out blissfully happy and told Martha and me that she had just been told terms had been reached and she was on the RTL tour. She was very happy and clearly it was a genuine offer/call.

This is interesting news. From all I read and heard on TV [[from Diana, Mary and others), I thought that none of the offers made to Mary was acceptable. But here was an offer that made Mary "blissfully happy". What happened to the offer? Did she have second thoughts and reject it? Did she wait too long to accept and then was told "that train left the station"

Something must have happened to the offer, because we all know that she was not part of the tour

[mwmr]

This is interesting news. From all I read and heard on TV [[from Diana, Mary and others), I thought that none of the offers made to Mary was acceptable. But here was an offer that made Mary "blissfully happy". What happened to the offer? Did she have second thoughts and reject it? Did she wait too long to accept and then was told "that train left the station"

Something must have happened to the offer, because we all know that she was not part of the tour

I genuinely don't know what happened. But there have been reports that Mary was offered 4 million and accepted and then the offer was withdrawn
i don't know any details of the offer I only know what I witnessed that night and how happy she was and also how thrilled Martha was for her too .
Sadly as we know it never happened

[jobeterob]

I genuinely don't know what happened. But there have been reports that Mary was offered 4 million and accepted and then the offer was withdrawn
i don't know any details of the offer I only know what I witnessed that night and how happy she was and also how thrilled Martha was for her too .
Sadly as we know it never happened

I believe all of that. Too bad it didn't happen.

If everyone phrased things in the manner mrmw does here, then people wouldn't feel nasty comments were being directed at Miss Wilson or Miss Ross.

There is a ringleader here who causes that negativity all the time; and it is very unnecessary.

I like how mrmw set out factually the tours and gigs Mary Wilson has played and matter of factly says, ya, they aren't as big as Diana's but Mary eats well and has a home etc. If only Marv could accept those facts.

[midnightman]

Interesting, mwmr. The way it was put out, you think she had decided not to accept the $4 million deal. Did she accept it too late? That's quite unfortunate though. It could've worked out if they probably had a different touring company. SFX was kinda shady.

[smark21]

Perhaps more tix for the holiday shows will sell as we get closer to the run. I do find it odd that it’s going to have a two week run in Chicago. IN NYC, Darlene Love and Ronnie Spector have been doing holiday shows for years now and they tend to do just a couple of gigs in the area, not a two week run. Perhaps Mary and Duke should have considered doing a holiday show or two in Chicago and another one or two in Detroit? Perhaps a show in Milwaukee as well?

However I’ll never get fans [[or anti-fans) closely monitoring ticket sales, ticket prices and section openings and closings for a show, especially if they don’t like the act. Gregg, I suggest you get ahold of the new Arcade Fire album Reflektor and stop worrying about Mary Wilson. Excellent album that combines the classic Arcade Fire anthem sound with LCD Soundsystem, Haitian rhythms, New Order, Young Americans era Bowie and a dash of Kraftwerk.

[supremester]

At the time I wrote that, I deduced it after a friend in Chicago asked if I could go with him and went to look at dates. I have work in Chicago every January and was hoping I could work them into the same visit. I wouldn't fly into Chicago just for that [[however, I am writing this from New Orleans to see Miss Ross' last until next year) on my way home from Palm Springs. Anyway, we are looking at seats and realized it was not selling at all. I prefer not to do this so early in January, so I don't want to change my plans if there will not be shows in January. Today, it was confirmed tickets are off to a very troublesome start. If anyone thinks this makes me happy, it does not. I've attended Mary's shows, paid, enjoyed her ballads and been perfectly well behaved as some on this list are quite aware. I don't wish her harm. I did at one time, but not for ages.

Greg, how do you know the low number of people at her shows and the poor ticket sales in Chicago? Just wondering.

[supremester]

I was responded to the comment about the power Mary had to end RTL. I'm merely pointing out a AAA battery has more power and the underhanded, dishonest ugly stories she used to try to further her cause. Power would have been this statement" I am not happy with the deal, so I've decided not to join the toiur but wish them well and hope everyone loves it." THEN, if it failed, power could be claimed. To call Captain Kamgaroo a child molester to hurt his show, is an ugly thing to do. I don't mean to come across as nasty. Everything I wrote is true. 100% no need for interpretation truth and was written in response to what others said. If I wanted to get nasty, I hardly scratched the surface of things I know. It's not my intention. You are correct that Mary gets to perform for fans as a support act, but she gets very very few "Mary Wilson In Concert" gigs and of those few, most are not exactly triumphs. In 2008 Rossers and WOWs [[Wacked Out Wilsonites) had a peace summit in SF to see Mary at The Razz Room. She drew impressive numbers for some shows in a very small venue. I felt it could be the beginning of a new, viable career and I found myself happy for her. I'm not inherently an asshole, and even forgot for a while she is my mortal enemy for causing Miss ross nothing but heartaches. Bottom Line: If you feel Mary is doing well, that's how you see it and it's all subjective. Others, viewing the information available, would disagree. Mary would be one of those. I maintain if she hadn't been such a dishonest, backstabbing, desperate 'Ho Bag for the last 3 decades, she'd be a lot better off right now and we'd have had visits from Diana Ross & The Supremes original '67 lineup. Her treachery and dishonesty caused trouble for my Miss Ross and to us to lose DMC reunions. Watch her "fill in " for Diane who she claims she thought had forgotten the words. Look at her in that clip singing Someday. Does she have even a shred of credibility as a good friend helping Diane to find the lyric? I'm just fed up with her BS, I guess. Who do you believe more: Mary, claiming she only sang Someday because she thought Diane had forgotten the words, or me claiming to list the "truths" about Mary's career only to enlighten those who may be unaware?

Supremester.. Why do you have to be so nasty btw? Mary makes a decent living , still receives her royalties. Gets plenty of overseas tours, Australia and Russia in the last 12 months as well as a long European tour with Bill Whyman. Sure Mary doesn't play the same size venues as Miss Diane but people still pay to see her and still want to see her irregardless of your opinion.

[mwmr]

. You are correct that Mary gets to perform for fans as a support act, but she gets very very few "Mary Wilson In Concert" gigs .

Mary has headlined her own tour here in the UK twice in the last 4 years at decent size venues that some of Englands top, and current, groups play.I will state that not all venues were full or sold out but clearly she is still considered a draw and viable as promoters are booking her for her own tours over here and the last one was 2 months long and NONE of the dates were cancelled. Thats a fact.


Who do you believe more: Mary, claiming she only sang Someday because she thought Diane had forgotten the words, or me claiming to list the "truths" about Mary's career only to enlighten those who may be unaware?

I actually belive Mary, having never met you and only being able to make a judgement on you based by your words on a forum.
Having met , and been lucky enough to spend time with her , numerous times over the years, I am not that naive to believe everything she says is gospel, neither am i that naive to believe that she doesnt manipulate situations to her own advantage.She was after all taught by a master - Mr Gordy..and Ms Diane has done the very same.

[jobeterob]

I actually belive Mary, having never met you and only being able to make a judgement on you based by your words on a forum.
Having met , and been lucky enough to spend time with her , numerous times over the years, I am not that naive to believe everything she says is gospel, neither am i that naive to believe that she doesnt manipulate situations to her own advantage.She was after all taught by a master - Mr Gordy..and Ms Diane has done the very same.

'

Thanks for these posts mrmw. Marv needs to read them and take them to heart. But I'm sure he'll tell us he knows Mary much better than you.

[marybrewster]

I wish Mary's Holiday show was touring. I'd love to see it, but I'm not a big fan of travel in the winter. Still, might be worth it to see two Motown legends.

The ticket prices seem pretty ambitious; someone above posted $135.00 for a ticket? I assume that's the "high" end. Certainly there must be more reasonable tickets.

I wonder how the tickets break down. Obviously there are 4 members of the Four Tops; Mary usually tours with Parnell and Lucy. Plus you have a band. And you have to pay "the house". I'm not suggesting that everything is split evenly, but it doesn't seem to me that anyone is coming out of this a millionaire. It's nice to see acts perform for the pure enjoyment, for themselves and for the fans. Plus, it's the holidays!

[jobeterob]

Well, it will be nice even if gets downsized to a smaller portion of the house and a reduced number of shows. I'm sure many of us would go if we lived in the vicinity.

[supremester]

I hope one day we will meet - next time I'm in NYC I will let you know.......lunch is on ME. Well, I think if you look at Mary, in RED, hoping around paying no mind to Cindy or Miss Ross, you may think again about what her motivation was and why Smokey was sent out. I'm thrilled Mary is doing her own tour - when is it? I don't know where ver here" here, but she cannot get straight gigs in The US anymore that pay anything. As far as RTL goes, the phone call you were there for must be the 4 million dollar call that came with a deadline. If Mary was so happy to accept it, why didn't she let TNT or Cindy know about it? Cindy wanted to accept it immediately and Mary told her not to - "Let me handle it." Cindy, in her own words, is sorry she listened to her. Of course, your comment shoots holes in Mary's newest "it wasn't about the money - it was being left out of the planning...." AND her lies on 20/20 3 months later about the money amounts. Literally, she will just say ANYTHING. The thought is that Mary, full of power, waited until after the deadline just to show who is who. They had a week to accept. When the deadline passed, Plan 9 From Outer Drive was put into place. When Mary heard Scherrie & Lynda were going, she crapped her panties, panicked, and started throwing shade like no tomorrow. That's when the train had left the station - and poor Cindy had already tipped the porter! Miss Ross didn't bend. And I don't blame her. Her experiences with Mary for the prior 2 decades had been hideous full of erratic behavior and lies - told publicly for the sole purpose of hurting her. Motown 25, that crying jag outside of Spago [[because poor Turkessa wanted to eat THERE LOLOLOL) and all her other BS......I think Miss Ross thought this woman is NOT worth my time. And 13 years later, Miss Ross' iconic smile was reduced to an "I think I just stepped in something smile" at her Supremes Reunion at The Motown Musical - she posed for pictures for Berry and was gone in 5 minutes. I doubt that we will ever see her willingly in the same room with Mary ever again. Manipulating situations is one thing, unprofessionalism and character assassination is quite another. If you were in The UK during that tour - what do you think of Mary's quote in a UK paper "I'm not gonna let her kill me like she did Flo"???

I actually belive Mary, having never met you and only being able to make a judgement on you based by your words on a forum.
Having met , and been lucky enough to spend time with her , numerous times over the years, I am not that naive to believe everything she says is gospel, neither am i that naive to believe that she doesnt manipulate situations to her own advantage.She was after all taught by a master - Mr Gordy..and Ms Diane has done the very same.

[marybrewster]

Well, it will be nice even if gets downsized to a smaller portion of the house and a reduced number of shows. I'm sure many of us would go if we lived in the vicinity.

I think you're right. I don't know much about Chicago of the Harris [[?) Theatre. Sounds like an intimate venue. Perfect for a Christmas show.

I wonder if Mary and Duke will duet on "River Deep"? Or if Mary will sing "The Children's Christmas Song"? LOL!

[marybrewster]

Perhaps more tix for the holiday shows will sell as we get closer to the run. I do find it odd that it’s going to have a two week run in Chicago. IN NYC, Darlene Love and Ronnie Spector have been doing holiday shows for years now and they tend to do just a couple of gigs in the area, not a two week run. Perhaps Mary and Duke should have considered doing a holiday show or two in Chicago and another one or two in Detroit? Perhaps a show in Milwaukee as well?

I like your idea, smark. A couple of nights here, a couple of nights there. Being a "Christmas" show, time is of the essence. Mary and Duke could actually start their tour now, as we are getting into the holiday season.

[mwmr]

I hope one day we will meet - next time I'm in NYC I will let you know.......lunch is on ME. Well, I think if you look at Mary, in RED, hoping around paying no mind to Cindy or Miss Ross, you may think again about what her motivation was and why Smokey was sent out. I'm thrilled Mary is doing her own tour - when is it? I don't know where ver here" here, but she cannot get straight gigs in The US anymore that pay anything. As far as RTL goes, the phone call you were there for must be the 4 million dollar call that came with a deadline. If Mary was so happy to accept it, why didn't she let TNT or Cindy know about it? Cindy wanted to accept it immediately and Mary told her not to - "Let me handle it." Cindy, in her own words, is sorry she listened to her. Of course, your comment shoots holes in Mary's newest "it wasn't about the money - it was being left out of the planning...." AND her lies on 20/20 3 months later about the money amounts. Literally, she will just say ANYTHING. The thought is that Mary, full of power, waited until after the deadline just to show who is who. They had a week to accept. When the deadline passed, Plan 9 From Outer Drive was put into place. When Mary heard Scherrie & Lynda were going, she crapped her panties, panicked, and started throwing shade like no tomorrow. That's when the train had left the station - and poor Cindy had already tipped the porter! All Miss Ross had to do was bend over and take it. But Miss Ross doesn't bottom. And I don't blame her. Her experiences with Mary for the prior 2 decades had been hideous full of erratic behavior and lies - told publicly for the sole purpose of hurting her. Motown 25, that crying jag outside of Spago [[because poor Turkessa wanted to eat THERE LOLOLOL) and all her other BS......I think Miss Ross thought this woman is NOT worth my time. And 13 years later, Miss Ross' iconic smile was reduced to an "I think I just stepped in something smile" at her Supremes Reunion at The Motown Musical - she posed for pictures for Berry and was gone in 5 minutes. I doubt that we will ever see her willingly in the same room with Mary ever again. Manipulating situations is one thing, unprofessionalism and character assassination is quite another. If you were in The UK during that tour - what do you think of Mary's quote in a UK paper "I'm not gonna let her kill me like she did Flo"???

What do i think of that quote? I'll tell you my opinion I do believe Diane played a part in killing Flo actually.By stealing her dreams,crushing her spirit, allowing her role in the supremes to be reduced..and lets face it another fact is she was shagging the boss and thats always the way to get ahead.
You're entitled to your opinion, and to believe what you have been informed/read in whatever shape you decide, as am I , and every other poster on this forum.
I simply posted a fact of a situation i personally witnessed.

BTW I find your gay innuendos in this post, pointless, crass,unwarranted and offensive and as such I have reported the post for this.

I've been courteous and polite throughout this thread allowing you your opinion, and maybe you could have shown me the same courtesy.That's what spoils these forums for the majority of people.

Live Love Laugh

[supremester]

I'm sorry if gay innuendo offends you, I edited the post. It was not pointless, it made my point very clearly and it is very hypocritical of you to complain of sexual innuendo, then use it yourself. At least that's the way I see it. Or is it because mine was gay and yours was a mixed couple? Is it OK if it's a man and a woman? Let me know so I won't offend you in the future. Personally, I'm offended by your suggestion that "shagging the boss is always the way to get ahead." Did you shag yours or did you just not get ahead? Anyway, I AM a boss, have never been involved with an employee and yet, some do seem to advance. I'm not so offended that I will report it, however. I think it's totally foolish to assume sleeping with the boss can get you to be the biggest group in US history, but maybe in your neck of the woods, people purchase records and concert tickets based on the bedroom activities of the artist. I'm in New Orleans right now to see Miss Ross. There are dozens of people going to the box office and hanging outside looking for tickets to the sold out event. Tickets were selling for nearly 1000.00 on Stub hub. You can check by going to Stub hub and looking at tickets sold. I do not believe that these fans are going because anyone shagged anyone. Do you think that's how Mary got on Tom Jones, Flip Wilson and Kate Smith? How different do you think things would have played out if Diana and Berry never touched? Would he have, after 5 #1's in a row, suddenly give his attention to The Velvelettes? He was shagging Chis Clark - do you feel she got ahead?

[supremester]

By the way, what does mwmr stand for? As for Flo, I don't see how Miss Ross crushed Flo's spirit, stole her dream or allowed her role to be diminished anymore than Mary did. Berry Gordy made all those decisions and in EVERY instance in the history of Motown, the acts that sold the most, got the most attention. He kicked out Flo and David Ruffin because they were impeding his dream. All Flo had to do was act right but she didn't. That's on her and not anyone else. There are those who felt Mary forced Flo out because Flo was so much more popular, but I don't believe that - do you?

[floyjoy678]

"I'm not gonna let her kill me like she did Flo"-I hope Mary didn't say that, that's very disrespectful to Florence and in bad taste.

"There are those who felt Mary forced Flo out because Flo was so much more popular, but I don't believe that - do you?"
LOL I'm kinda actually one of those people. I don't think Mary forced her out but I do think that she didn't stick up for her or have her back for that reason because with Florence out of the way the fans would begin to notice her a lot more. To this day when watching clips of the original Supremes I'm only focused on Florence and Diana. When Florence was gone I only focused on Diana. I've grown to appreciate Mary over the years though and realize that she, along with Diana and Florence, brought that something special to the group. She's still is my least favorite of the original group though.

[supremester]

It wasn't the touring company. They weren't shady until RTL was operating. Depending on which interview you read, Mary did or did not accept the 4 million. She changes it every so often over the years. It's Mary who is shady. Even on 20/20 - MONTHS after the 4 million dollar offer and all the arguing, she still went on national TV lying about Diana's money and hers as well. She was campaigning hard to get added to the tour, but was probably just digging a deeper grave telling those lies again and again. If I were Miss Ross, I'd just be getting more pissed off that Mary was lying on me - AGAIN. Anyway, Mary tells the story many different ways, Any tour promoter would have handled it the same because Miss Ross obviously wanted zero to do with Mary financially. And I don't blame her. She prolly figured just get the girls together and do the damn shows but not be in a position for Mary to play the victim again. Tomorrow is the 50th Anniversary of Lovelight - much could have been made of that, but, sadly, nothing will be. I think it would take an act of Congress or Mary throwing herself on the mercy of The Supreme Court and Chief Justice Diane Earle Ross-Silberstein-Naess-Ross and admitting she lied on her for years to get a chance at a talk for the possibility of maybe spening a fleeting moment together in public as Supremes. After Miss Ross' fierce show tonight - she needs Su!premes like she needs another broken ankle. The couple next to me GLADLY paid 879.25 per ticket and flew in from Florida after seeing her last month in Sarasota. Girlfriend is in a great place!

Interesting, mwmr. The way it was put out, you think she had decided not to accept the $4 million deal. Did she accept it too late? That's quite unfortunate though. It could've worked out if they probably had a different touring company. SFX was kinda shady.

[supremester]

I wasn't there - like mwmr was- to hear the quote, but I read it in an interview she gave in The UK in January 2000. Flo was so popular, Mary had every reason to be jealous and, given her behavior over the years, probably was. Had Mary stood up for Flo and negotiated a settlement where Maybe Flo could tour less but still be with the group - I believe Berry wooda said yes. He did not want Flo out but she forced his hand. Mary didn't do squat. Mary became the #2 Supreme by default cuz many thought Cindy was a bore. I was one of those. I missed Flo so much that I didn't see what a great replacement Cindy was. If Mary had tried all that scene stealing crap with Flo around, she'd have had to deal with a broken neck! LOLOLOLOL

"I'm not gonna let her kill me like she did Flo"-I hope Mary didn't say that, that's very disrespectful to Florence and in bad taste.

"There are those who felt Mary forced Flo out because Flo was so much more popular, but I don't believe that - do you?"
LOL I'm kinda actually one of those people. I don't think Mary forced her out but I do think that she didn't stick up for her or have her back for that reason because with Florence out of the way the fans would begin to notice her a lot more. To this day when watching clips of the original Supremes I'm only focused on Florence and Diana. When Florence was gone I only focused on Diana. I've grown to appreciate Mary over the years though and realize that she, along with Diana and Florence, brought that something special to the group. She's still is my least favorite of the original group though.

[jobeterob]

What is this about Mary came onto Kate Smith? As well as Flip Wilson & Tom Jones. At least Tom was hung but Kate would have squashed Mary.

[REDHOT]

It is one person here,who keeps SHIT going here,and it's not Marv,i won't say the name,but come on,we all know,who you are,PLEASE STOP,i agree with you Mwmr,Mary and Diana were taught by THE BEST,Berry Gordy,TRUST ME,They all LIE lol,Please stay positive

[jobeterob]

Now Dear Redhot, that is not being very positive.

Due to the outlandishness and spitefulness of Marv's attacks on one of the main Motown Icons, he has several foils on here, me included; and that will continue, thanks to Ralph and Lowell.

Another member raised an issue about Mary Wilson & Kate Smith; I have never heard such a thing and I would like to know the details or if it was a joke. Mary Wilson is a public figure and while she doesn't attract the interest of major Motown figures, the fans are interested. I would like to know the answer to that question.

Some people may feel that because Mary Wilson isn't one of the major Motown stars, that she should be exempt from having her behaviour questioned. Perhaps at one time, such an argument held sway. But not after her books; she waived any privilege at that time. And while the attacks of YouTube are not needed, questions are.

I await Supremester's reply.

[milven]

Supremester did not say that Mary Wilson shagged Kate Smith. My interpration is that Supremster asked the poster if Mary got her Supremes on those shows by shagging just as the poster thought that the Supemes were successful because of Diana's relationship with Berry. The conclusion being that the Supremes [[and Diana) would have been a huge success even if she did not have a personal relationship with Berry.

.. I'm offended by your suggestion that "shagging the boss is always the way to get ahead." .... I think it's totally foolish to assume sleeping with the boss can get you to be the biggest group in US history, but maybe in your neck of the woods, people purchase records and concert tickets based on the bedroom activities of the artist. I'm in New Orleans right now to see Miss Ross. There are dozens of people going to the box office and hanging outside looking for tickets to the sold out event. .. Do you think that's how Mary got on Tom Jones, Flip Wilson and Kate Smith? How different do you think things would have played out if Diana and Berry never touched? Would he have, after 5 #1's in a row, suddenly give his attention to The Velvelettes? He was shagging Chis Clark - do you feel she got ahead?

[jobeterob]

LOL, lawyers thought processes are often unclear!

[REDHOT]

Come now,everyone knows,if you have a personal relationship,with the boss,you can get more,and that,don't make it wrong,that's the way it is,again,to that person,that keeps the MESS going here,Ralph has told you before,STOP IT,this person say negative things,because they know,they will get a reaction,Diana is stop,Mary is nothing,they are saying this for a reaction,a lot of people here, make up LIES,Mary and Kate? REALLY?LOL,too much BULL,Please stay positive

[Roberta75]

Come now,everyone knows,if you have a personal relationship,with the boss,you can get more,and that,don't make it wrong,that's the way it is,again,to that person,that keeps the MESS going here,Ralph has told you before,STOP IT,this person say negative things,because they know,they will get a reaction,Diana is stop,Mary is nothing,they are saying this for a reaction,a lot of people here, make up LIES,Mary and Kate? REALLY?LOL,too much BULL,Please stay positive

Oh come on REDHOT everyone know Mary never slept with Kate Smith i think and hope the person who wrote it was joking. Yes some mean things are said about Mary that shouldn't be said but your friend say terrible things about Diane that shouldnt be said as well so EVERYBODY need to stop bashing all former Supremes and by that I mean Diane Ross and Mary Wilson and Lynda Lawrence. We DONT know these women personally so stop ALL the personal attacks on these ladies. Be real grateful that they still around to entertain us and leave the who slept with who and who killed who [[which is vicious and disgusting to accuse) out of it and focus on the music.

Please stay positive.

Roberta

[marybrewster]

What is this about Mary came onto Kate Smith? As well as Flip Wilson & Tom Jones. At least Tom was hung but Kate would have squashed Mary.

This made me laugh out loud!

[REDHOT]

Like i said,they say negative things, for a reaction,and most of the time,they get it,i'm sure you were joking Roberta,i have no friends here lol,some of the things,people say here,i can't believe it,yes there's a lot of VICIOUS FANS,I'm not one of them,because i have RESPECT for all of them,i try to keep the negative things to myself lol,Please stay positive

[Roberta75]

Like i said,they say negative things, for a reaction,and most of the time,they get it,i'm sure you were joking Roberta,i have no friends here lol,some of the things,people say here,i can't believe it,yes there's a lot of VICIOUS FANS,I'm not one of them,because i have RESPECT for all of them,i try to keep the negative things to myself lol,Please stay positive

You are a good sould dear REDHOT and youre real respected and loved by me and many others.

Fondly,

Roberta

[mwmr]

I'm sorry if gay innuendo offends you, I edited the post. It was not pointless, it made my point very clearly and it is very hypocritical of you to complain of sexual innuendo, then use it yourself. At least that's the way I see it. Or is it because mine was gay and yours was a mixed couple? Is it OK if it's a man and a woman? Let me know so I won't offend you in the future. Personally, I'm offended by your suggestion that "shagging the boss is always the way to get ahead." Did you shag yours or did you just not get ahead? Anyway, I AM a boss, have never been involved with an employee and yet, some do seem to advance. I'm not so offended that I will report it, however. I think it's totally foolish to assume sleeping with the boss can get you to be the biggest group in US history, but maybe in your neck of the woods, people purchase records and concert tickets based on the bedroom activities of the artist. I'm in New Orleans right now to see Miss Ross. There are dozens of people going to the box office and hanging outside looking for tickets to the sold out event. Tickets were selling for nearly 1000.00 on Stub hub. You can check by going to Stub hub and looking at tickets sold. I do not believe that these fans are going because anyone shagged anyone. Do you think that's how Mary got on Tom Jones, Flip Wilson and Kate Smith? How different do you think things would have played out if Diana and Berry never touched? Would he have, after 5 #1's in a row, suddenly give his attention to The Velvelettes? He was shagging Chis Clark - do you feel she got ahead?

my user name is my intials [[yes i share the same intitials as Mary followed by mr as that is what i am.

There was no need for gay innuendo in the thread and i say this as an out and proud gay man in a long term civil partenrship.

[[Shagging btw is not an offensive term)and it's a matter of public record that Diane was sleeping with the boss

Hypocrite? You don't know me so cannot make that assumption and hey you're not the only person who is a boss! The measure of me is defined by the fact that i actually told you i found your post offensive and that i was reporting it as such because i am an honest person who never does things behind anyones back.

I've no interest in pursuing this conversation further, and I won't be, it's people like yourself who make this boards non-enjoyable for the masses.
Enjoy your show, as i enjoy all shows by any of the 7 living remaining Supremes.

[Roberta75]

Enjoy your show, as i enjoy all shows by any of the 7 living remaining Supremes.

Theres actually 8 living Supremes mwmr theres Diane Ross and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birddsong and Lynda Lawrence and Jean Terrell and Sherrie Payne and Susaye Greene and Barbara Martin. Miss Barbara Martin may be a retired podiatrist in Wisconsin but shes still a Supreme imo.

Roberta

[milven]

I guess you are right technically, but since Barbara was only there for a minute before their fame, many don't regard her as a Supreme.


In the Group Gladys Knight & the Pips, Brenda Knight, Eleanor Guest, Langston George & Chris Morante were part of the group in the beginning before their fame; and technically they are as much Pips as Barbara is a Supreme. But they are not Bubba, William and Ed just as Barbara is not DFM or any of their successors.

But yes, you are technically right.

[Roberta75]

I guess you are right technically, but since Barbara was only there for a minute before their fame, many don't regard her as a Supreme.


In the Group Gladys Knight & the Pips, Brenda Knight, Eleanor Guest, Langston George & Chris Morante were part of the group in the beginning before their fame; and technically they are as much Pips as Barbara is a Supreme. But they are not Bubba, William and Ed just as Barbara is not DFM or any of their successors.

But yes, you are technically right.

Thank you dear Milven. I have a real special place in my heart for Miss Barbara Martin or anyone who work with feet for that matter.

Fondly,

Roberta

[jobeterob]

Like i said,they say negative things, for a reaction,and most of the time,they get it,i'm sure you were joking Roberta,i have no friends here lol,some of the things,people say here,i can't believe it,yes there's a lot of VICIOUS FANS,I'm not one of them,because i have RESPECT for all of them,i try to keep the negative things to myself lol,Please stay positive

Your a good woman Redhot.