Indeed, Florence. Some things are better left unsaid. Your love of "Shockwaves" has scandalized us all. lol.
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One thing that stands out about RHRAB is that Diana is in glorious voice throughout.
I think had she promoted "Shine" as the first single and shot a great video to go with it the album MIGHT have done a biddy bit better.
In reply to benross post, i agree with many of your opinions, but consider Diana's solo version of "Your All I Need to be superb. One she really puts her own personal stamp on.
^i agree Ollie. I think this is some of the best overall singing while at RCA. the ghastly echo treatment from Silk is gone, the hideous muffled productions of Eaten are gone, she's more engaged that one some of the Swept tracks. It's def not a masterpiece but it's held up better than much of her other output from 80s
I do think Red Hot and Eaten Alive are her two best RCA albums. Both needed a bit tweeking
She failed to deliver a killer album whilst at rca , but there were at least a couple of killer cuts on most of the albums, especially from Ross83 onwards. I just wish she had put as much effort into making consistent albums as she did into making money, but she was a very busy lady during this time and quite literally stretched herself too thinly during this time.
With all due respect Blueblock. I loved her RCA period. To me “Eaten Alive” And “Swept Away” were killer albums. I could also include “Silk Electric”. I know there are a lot of fans who don’t appreciate these albums like I do. But believe me there are many fans that do. That’s what makes this so fun everyone has their own personal choices of what they like.
^ agreed and i'll go ahead and disagree with ya ;) lolol
I think EA is the worst album of her career. I'd rather listen to Workin Overtime or I Love You.
The problem IMO isn't crappy song choice [[like WO) or material in too high/wrong key [[again WO) or poor quality backing tracks [[like ILY). The problems are 1) her vocals are so mushy and blurry and 2) Diana's already nasal vocal tone clashing with the nasal falsetto sounds of the Gibbs on backing vocals. To me, that combo of Gibb and Ross is like nails on chalkboard. Berry's other duet partners had different enough vocal tones that the blend work. here it's ghastly.
The Swept Away album is one i do enjoy, for the most part. I know many fans hate Crazy but i like it. it's fun. Forever Young and Rescue Me are not very strong. like she did 1 take of the vocals and figure, good enough. Children would have been pretty much fine without that damn children's chorus. The 3 singles and Touch are great songs.
Exactly. Variety is the spice of life. It is good to hear differing views. Glad you can appreciate Silk Electric more than i am able to.
I do quite like the final four albums, but as for Why do Fools and Silk Electric i shall just say different strokes for different folks!
I remember liking Silk originally as I was severely disappointed on WDFFIL. Both albums could be combined into one lp.
Ross was a better lp but I thought wrong singles .
Swept away was good minus We r the children.prefer Fight For it.
Eaten alive was good but....less Bee gees on a few tracks while others I really like.
I agree with Marv and Bluebrock that Jackie Ross's original version of "Selfish One" is better than Diana Ross's revival.
I prefer Diana Ross's version. It's dramatic and cinematic and playful and I love Ross's singing on this. The original is good but sounded like a follow-up for Mary Wells.
Diana says you need to go for the hooks and she sure does on this song
Anecdotally, this song was actually written with Mary Wells in mind. She was struggling at 20th Century Fox and needed a hit. Either she passed on the song or perhaps it never even got to her, but it’s definitely following the “My Guy” formula: using an intro and break from an old tin-pan alley song. In the case of “My Guy” it was a few bars of “Canadian Sunset;” with “Selfish One” it was a few bars of “Tenderly.”
Because DJs were reluctant to play Mary’s post-Motown tracks, had she actually recorded “Selfish One,” it would probably not have charted, so Jackie Ross was ultimately a better choice.
Diana does a great cover of it. I think deep down, Diana, much like Patti LaBelle, loved doing those type of songs [[though Patti seemed to go more into an urban contemporary department around this time). Diana strikes me as someone who, if she had her way, the type of songs she did as a Supreme would remain. It's not surprising she would successfully tackle a hit '60s song as "Selfish One".
However, RHR&B was probably Diana at one of her worst, in RCA and Motown, overall. Most of the songs seem like she was just doing it to finish the ill-fated contract with RCA. The label never recouped the $20 million they signed Diana to. Artistically, Diana was in a rut, which started after Swept Away was released. I think RCA and Diana clashed on what they wanted her to do. Maybe RCA wanted her to do what Whitney and Janet were doing and she was resistant to do it [[much like Donna Summer was told that doing pop oriented and rock oriented stuff, not to mention her doing spiritual music, was not the answer at Geffen since they signed her on her past disco glory).
Diana took a while to get her musical groove back and the last three albums she recorded during her second tenure at Motown finally saw an artistically satisfying period for her though obviously she was never to reach commercial acclaim again.
It's funny. She was complaining that RCA wasn't doing enough for her. Motown was doing too much and RCA, not enough. Well what was it Diane? LOL! RCA assumed, just like Diana Ross that it was her voice and it alone that sold records. Neither ever considered all of that attention to the writing of the songs for her voice and ability, song selection, production,and heavy promotion Motown did to make her records hit. I have to believe Berry Gordy got more than a little satisfaction from Ross' post Motown predicament. LOL!!!!
What’s so funny. Her first album on RCA she hit platinum with 2 top ten hits! Her second album was gold with a top ten hit! Then her 4th RCA album was an international best seller with a #1 UK hit. Her 5th RCA album went gold with another top ten single. Not too shabby IMO. I know Gladys, Dionne, etc were not having this kind of success. And I know your idol Mary Wilson probably would kill to have this type of success. Lol.
I believe Gordy got satisfaction out of folks like Mary Wells, Flo Ballard, even Mary Wilson, failing to find success outside of Motown. I don't believe he was that petty when it came to Diana because she was more than an artist to him. Not only was she the mother of one of his children, but she was the key to most of his biggest triumphs. I'm sure he was like any of the rest of us: we get mad but we still want the best for the ones we love. He loved her, and she him. Neither of them would've gotten satisfaction out of the other failing.
Gladys had two gold albums during this period and while she wasn't putting up worthy numbers pop, she, along with the Pips, cut some big successful singles during that time too, songs that have held up a lot longer than most anything Ross cooked up during the same time period. And Dionne also had two gold albums as well as cutting the mega hit "Thats What Friends Are For". There isn't anything Diana did at RCA that even approaches the impact of that song. And that's the problem. These women were staying true to who they were as artists, whether the results were always accepted or not. Diana was not and it shows.
Gladys did have a few successful singles but none crossed over to Billboards pop top ten and she surely didn’t have a platinum album or anything thing close to it. And I agree Dionne’s record was huge but let’s be fair here. Her record was for a charity for aids research at the time when Aids was all in the news. And it had Stevie, Elton, and Gladys singing with her. Kinda like “We are the World”. No way it wasn’t going to be huge.
Yeah, and there's no reason why Diana couldn't have been doing equally excellent work. She was so concerned with competing with the likes of Madonna and whatever new girl was on the block, while her peers were figuring out how to make money, remain relevant, and stay true to their art. That's my gripe, that Diana sat the last one aside choosing to focus on making money and remaining relevant. Her focus on those things prevented her from continuing her musical relevancy [[as a current artist not a legacy artist which she'll always be) and from making more money. Can you imagine the kind of money she could've raked in had she recorded a blockbuster album? She was still in her prime. There was more left in the tank.
I totally agree. Although at the time I enjoyed her RCA material, I also wanted her to do albums in the same style of Dionne, Patti but especially Gladys Knight. Gladys was making great R&B albums. Which is my favorite music style. She would have had such bigger hits if she went that route. IMO
She was not interested in making an r&b album . Luther did everything in his power to get her to agree to let him produce her. He sent her demos, flowers and other gifts. He wined and dined her and they struck up a good relationship, but he was starstruck and always in awe of her. He followed her around like a little puppy. It was all very cute, but he was never granted his wish to produce a full album on her.
Well remembered! I'd completely forgotten about the "Canadian Sunset"/ "Tenderly" parallel.
That does indeed give credence to the Mary Wells theory. It also gives me the chance to do a quick plug for Jackie Ross's excellent Ace CD, "Jerk & Twine - The Complete Chess Recordings", which also contains "Selfish One" clone, "New Lover".
Mercy..."New Lover" and "Selfish One" are identical. Different lyrics and slightly different arrangement but the same song. I winder what that was all about.
Mary Wells used the same device of taking a few bars of a pop standard/show tune with her debut Atco single, "Dear Lover." In that one, the tune lifted was "Hello, Young Lovers." Talk about working a shtick to death!
Fitting song for her.