Oh but it is. Much worse in my opinion.
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What was she thinking!!.
It’s strange how “Missing You” never took off in the UK. It most certainly received a lot of radio airplay and was re-promoted twice. Perhaps Diana’s UK popularity being at a low had something to do with it. I remember a radio DJ mentioning that he was perplexed as to it’s slow movement on the pop charts.
I think had she performed the song on a popular UK television show it’s fate on British soil might have proved very different.
In the Netherlands, "Missing You" didn't even chart at all, probably because it was released so late after the album had been released [[sometime early 1985). The "Swept Away" album had done quite well in the Netherlands -- both "Touch by Touch" and "All of You" had been top 10 hits, and the "Swept Away" single had been a minor hit. Releasing "Missing You" so late seems like an afterthought. Interestingly, "Missing You" was included on several 1985 compilation albums, in spite of not charting.
Each to their own, of course - give me Forever Young over Missing You any day - in fact I think a single Forever Young Diana Ross featuring Eric Clapton would have been big in the UK.
If the UK sales were known they would be probably be higher than you might expect given that it was just outside the top 75 for 8 weeks and was probably knocking about the top 200 nfor 3/4 months.
I really find it weird though - had many of Diana's singles been given the same promotion as Missing You they would have been big but it beggars belief that if they really wanted to a major UK record company couldn't break a record into the top 75 - all I'll say is it's strange.
You may well be right about “Forever Young” florence. I still believe that owing to Diana’s low profile in the UK at the time, the single would have needed tv as well as radio exposure.
I remember hearing “Missing You” played regularly on the radio at the time of its release.It brings to mind the words of the old adage ‘You can lead a horse to water’.
It seems, Diana wasn't promoted at all in Europe while at RCA. I don't think she made any TV appearances at all. She was on french TV for two TV shows, but she lived in Paris at that time and she was there to talk about Josephine Baker.
She toured in 1982, 1985 and 89.
She didn't tour Japan at all during the time of her RCA contract.
In those days, tv and video were of major importances. Sade, Cindy Lauper, Withney Houston, Tina Turner, Donna Summer, even Cher and Madonna did appearances to promote their new albums, mostly lip synching.
But Diana and Barbra Streisand, nothing
Just for the record
I did like Silk Electric.
Who
Love lies
Anywhere you run to
Not a huge fav but better than WDFFIL.
Muscles was good size hit for her and alot of my friends who were not Ross fans liked it.
Diana Ross came to promote Why Do Fools Fall In Love, at least in the Netherlands. She didn't perform but showed the music video to show those Europeans what "America was like"! I'm sure it helped to make the single "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" Diana's only solo number one in the Netherlands. I vividly remember watching this on tv 40 years ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz27ZVBq5wY&t=19s
No question music videos had a massive influence.
Why Do Fools Fall In Love was running out of steam in the UK when it eased up from 22-19 but it was enough for the video to be shown on Top Of The Pops. [[Thursday night)
The record's sales exploded on the Friday taking it up from 19-7 in the next chart.
It peaked at #4 selling 78k that week which was a very high sale for that position and was one of Diana's top 5 selling UK singles.
It is 80% completed and has been for around 4 years. It will need fine tuning if it does go to publication.
My main reason i am hesitating is because if i am to tell the truth it will upset some people. I wanted it to be a warts and all memoir where nothing would be off limits, but there are certain people who are just too dear to me to upset. There are certain ones whom it would be an honour and privilege to expose their appalling behaviour to the world, and it is a case of finding a happy medium.
Also the advance i would receive is less than my first offer from 5 years ago which indicates demand is not quite what it once was. The financial side of it is not important. I need never work another day in my life and not compromise my standard of living one iota.
I really do not know how to proceed. I am happy and healthy again and content with my life. We shall see.
To answer your other question i was not at Brixton due to a prior engagement.
Thank you for your interest.
i like those tracks on SE too. overall i'd rate WDFFIL a bit higher than SE solely because of the excessive echo she used on Silk. it's as if they moved the recording studio to the bottom of a well. but it isn't as bad on some tracks. Wonder if she had just found the "echo" button on the engineering controls and was like a kid with a new toy lol
Yes, this one plus 3 tv appearances over two days in France in 84 [[she didn't perform but clips of CP and Pieces of ice were presented). News reports for her 85 tour in France, Netherland, Norway, Danemark and 3 more from Italy.
Maybe I miss something but I don't think so.
i think if you focus on professional situations [[as opposed to personal) and if you're even handed with the content, i think you both should be ok. even if there are things that are not flattering to individuals. be sure to account for whatever good things a person offered up along with the bad [[assuming there are both lol).
Dreamgirl and CHMR took on the more sensational tone of the 80s. but then when Randy did his later book on Diana, it was much more even. of course there were situations still that weren't flattering to Diana. she's human and has made mistakes. but it also showed a much more kind image of her too.
Sup Fan- im so glad Randy wrote the third biography..some close to Ross had straightened him out on a few situations and he was able to gather a new perspective on some things..I also think he had matured personally.. CHMR as brilliant as it is - in some sections has a pettiness in parts which does a disservice to him, and the key players he writes about..the best part for me of his last tome is the final 24 hrs of Flo as a Supreme and the events of her birthday..all new information that he didnt have for his two previous works..
i agree about the newest book. some really wonderful additional stories of events and details of things happening.
my favorite part though is the appendix with the details on every album!! i've read that again and again!
I found that fascinating as well Sup you have a great flair for details as your posts show..in 1993 UK Magazine "Record Collector" had a two part article celebrating Forever/One Woman and discussing what was in the vaults.. I read it again and again years later its pretty much all been released but at the time in the pre internet pre hip o select and before this forum details of the Ross & Supremes unreleased catalog was very very hard to find anything about it..I still have those two articles in my scrapbook
I agree with Ollie9:I see you combined Ross'83 with Swept Away.Quote:
That is an extremely good wish list album david.
Since Silk Electric is my least favorite RCA album [to say the very least!], I combined Ross '83 with the few SE tracks I could even listen to:
Let's Go Up
That's How You Start Over
Love or Loneliness
Love Will Make It Right
You Do It
Muscles
Pieces of Ice
Love Lies
Still In Love
In Your Arms
I left Swept Away pretty much intact, but I added Up Front and left off Rescue Me and We Are The Children of the World.
Missing You
Touch By Touch
Swept Away
All Of You
Telephone
Nobody Makes Me Crazy [[Like You Do)
It's Your Move
Up Front
Forever Young
It's very 80s pop, which I love. Sounds like it should've been the theme to some 80s movie about a group of kids, like The Goonies, or a John Hughes film. Now this is not what I would've wanted from Diana, even as an album cut. But on it's own, I do enjoy the song. It's that 80s pop track that really gets me.
Speaking of 'Dreamgirl', I did a re-read after Mary's passing as a bit of a memorial to her; I was disappointed at just how much of the book is spent in denigrating others as opposed to discussing her own experiences. I know there are those who love the book; this is just my recent reaction.
I must re read "dream girl " haven't picked it up in a long time it's annoying I have my stuff in storage and I cant just dip into books which I like to do...I much prefer " supreme faith " thou..I don't know why I find her battle with Motown to keep the supremes afloat and her relationship with pedro gripping.... I have it on audiobook cassette as well and it's nice to have Mary reading it..I'm surprised she didn't do an audiobook for "dream girl " thou.. given it's massive popularity
I haven't picked it up again since it was first published, but i recall being very disappointed with the way she criticised so many of her former friends, colleagues and associates. It was most ungracious of her. I kind of cut myself off from her from that point onwards. I would not want my book to turn out that way, but some of those sales figures would be nice!
I do wonder if Mary was not encouraged to spice things up for those all important sales figures. She admitted herself that her memory of events was often a little hazy.
I understand the book contained points of view that many Ross fans would have difficulty in accepting, preferring to believe Mary was either lying or exaggerating. At the end of the day it was her personal perspective. . A Flo or/and Cindy book would have balanced things up.
I'm trying to figure out who are all these people Mary slammed in Dreamgirl. She did not paint the most flattering picture of Diana, and to some extent Berry, although she never failed to compliment Diana's talent and work ethic. She didn't paint the most flattering picture of Flo after a certain point either, but she also managed to make her a sympathetic "character", so everything kind of balanced out where Flo was concerned. Am I missing something? I've read that book a billion times and I'm hard pressed to remember all the horrible Marvelettes and Vandellas and Temptations and Tops and Marvin and Stevie and Miracle stories that apparently line every other page.:rolleyes:
I don't know that a Flo autobio would've been any less criticized, or considered more balanced if she decided to "dish" on her experience with Diana Ross. Her words in the PB bio do paint a more balanced picture of her view of Diana as opposed to the way some fans and sympathizers want to believe she felt, which was not that Diana was a total bitch, but that she did have her moments. I think for those who worship at the feet of Ross [[not to be confused with those of us who love the hell out of the lady's music but refuse to exalt her to deity level) any criticism beyond a sentence or two is going to amount to a full on attack. Cindy's book might have escaped that. Flo's book would've sat right alongside Mary's in the "trash bin" of some fans' book sections...if they kept the books at all.
Good points Ran. I personally haven’t read the book since it was published, but really don’t remember Mary being highly critical of people she had worked with in the music industry. I have actually met people in the industry who have told me Diana was a total bitch. Like Mary’s book and anything else in life, it all comes down to personal experience.
at best, Dreamgirl has limited complimentary content towards Diana. and [[as to be expected) there's little to no recognition of Mary's own role in things. of course an author probably wouldn't list all of their own faults.
Some things have come to light about how both D and M tried to really help Flo and how D tried to push for some of Flo's solo songs and such. Of course those might be stories Mary didn't remember as they're from others.
and the biggest omission is her not including the story of how Diana helped her financially in the early 80s. I don't care if it "wasn't part of the timeline" of Dreamgirls. the entire Epilogue was post DRATS anyway. there were no plans or immediate contracts at the time of Dreamgirl for Sup Faith so it doesn't hold any water to say "i was saving that for the next book" Bullshit
As many have said in previous statements here, it's unlikely that, given the state of Mary's career before the book was published, there would have been any interest at all without major dirt-dishin', tea-spillin' and kiki-cake for dessert. Yet ... once Mary meets anyone who would play a part of her singing career virtually every episode of the book is a clap-back at someone in her orbit. Upon it's first publication Wilson's was [[perhaps) the first well-known Motown insider book so that, too, gave it cachet. In retrospect I'd say the book is a chatty, frequently mean-spirited quick read without a smidge of insight or personal reflection.
Agreed. I seem to recall her criticising Jean, Lynda and even Susaye. Not just Diana.
Of course it was all written from her perspective and there is no way she would ever have got the book deal without making it lurid and spicy to some extent.
I am the first to admit to how difficult Ms Ross can be and i have occasionally discussed such behaviour on these pages despite certain people on here preferring to disregard that when it suits them.
I almost quit 2 days into the gig, but ironically it was one such outburst that was a major turning point in my relationship with her. I saw a sometimes vulnerable human being constantly in the spotlight.
Despite all her wealth and privilege it is not always easy being Diana Ross. The biting criticism [[some of it fully justified i might add) that was regularly aimed at her sometimes disgusted me. No one should have to put up with such behaviour - even a very needy and demanding diva such as Diana Ross. She is far more sensitive than you might think.
one thing i will agree with is that Dreamgirl didn't necessary kill DR's pop career.
Dreamgirl was published in 86 although i don't know when in the year - spring, fall?
as for Diana's career, Eaten Alive [[single) was released Sept 1, 85 and EA album later that month. Chained Reaction was released in Nov 85.
Diana didn't have any releases in 86.
RHR&B tv special was aired in late May 87 and the album earlier that month.
Now if all of the music and single released from Red Hot were stellar productions, perhaps you could make something of the theory that Mary's book really impacted Diana's career. but the music wasn't that strong. I believe the tv show ratings were still quite good.
It’s been six weeks since we learned of the sudden and tragic death of M’s Mary Wilson. Is yet another debate about how awful Mary was about Diana in her first book really very appropriate or tasteful at this point in time.
I suspect there is one poster who must have been grinding his teeth regarding the out pouring of love and admiration Mary received following her sad passing. It’s interesting he chose to read Dream girls [[of all things) “as a bit of a memorial to her”. Enough said. :eek:
i think we're having a rather evenhanded discussion of Dreamgirls. we aren't getting into what motivated mary to write the book. just a pretty straightforward review of the content that was and was not in the published book
I don't personally know any of the women and i try to avoid personal attacks as such. in general i try to analyze or discuss career decisions and activities in respect to the career itself. all of the women, i'm sure, could be bitches and could be lovely. they're all human
what i won't do is martyr any of the Supremes. just because Flo died young does not make her a martyr. just because Barbara died after living [[from all accounts) a wonderfully private and satisfying life does not make her a martyr. Just because mary died unexpectedly does not make her a martyr either.
IMO our fan discussions on here have been quite civil in the past few months. even when people voice differing opinions. Mary's death does not erase her history - both the good and the bad. therefore so long as there aren't personal attacks on character, i feel no need to simply stop discussion on Sup history.