I ask this because I suddenly realize there is so much angst to Mary's situation and it might make for a more intriguing story. The uncertainly she was forced into and the survival mode she tapped into to claw through it all...
The underdog in this drama if you will...
added: let's say a script is being written and they're deciding whether the focus is on one rather than the other....
How do you define "angst"?
Angst: a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one about the human condition or the state of the world in general.
That's probably one word that DOESN'T describe Mary Wilson.
I'll go with Mary. DR would whitewash things, trying to keep it classy. I mean which book made a bigger splash? Dreamgirl or Secrets Of a Sparrow? Dreamgirl and it's because Mary wrote about the good, the bad and the ugly, whereas DR's book sounded like a cheesy self-help story. Now it can be argued that since the public on average sees DR as a temperamental diva-- no matter what she writes, people will project their bias
onto it. Is it fair? No, maybe not, but people get behind an underdog, which was how it was with Dreamgirl. On the other hand, I don't think many people care anymore about Diana Ross or the Supremes, so I doubt a movie will ever be made at this point.
At this point in time, it’s doubtful there would be enough public interest to make such a film appear profitable.
I’m surprised a film has never been made on the turbulent life of Tammi Terrell. She certainly ticks a lot of boxes, having been talented and beautiful, dying young in a tragic fashion with an explosive love life. Certainly a story likely to appeal to all ages.
One of my biggest disappointments in "Motown the Musical" was that several of the most compelling stories, such as Tammi's and Florence Ballard's, were completely left out of the narrative. As Berry Gordy was so involved with development of the musical, it proves the old adage that "He who lives the longest gets to write the history."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
It was bad enough to ignore the contributions by Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, and others. Casual fans of Motown may not be aware of the Tammi Terrell story, but anyone familiar at all with the Supremes' group history would know all about Florence. Inexplicable to me that she was left out, and certainly seemed like a whitewash to me.
Kenneth I thought they did lightly touch on Flo's situation in Motown the Musical? I only saw it once years ago so I may not be remembering right but wasn't there at least a scene with the whole New Orleans fiasco?
I’ve never been to see MTM so am unable to comment Kenneth. Regarding Tammi, perhaps it would have been to much to try and cram in.Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth
MTM did lightly touch on Flo's departure but as I recall, it really wasn't in-depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by floyjoy678
Ross has a very unique way to make everything boring.
There isn't a member of the group that wouldn't be interesting. Diana had the entire focus on working hard to become the focal point and lead singer while dating Berry and dealing with the pressures of her work and co-workers, Florence had the similar to Dreamgirls of being a strong singer and not singing lead following her rape and leading to her mistrust of people, Mary had the heart and soul of the group who held it together through so many changes while being told by Berry she couldn't sing and dealing with her bandmates as well as an abusive marriage, Cindy had the story of replacing Flo while leaving the Bluebelles and trying to fit in while she was in her own whirlwind that later she was kidnapped, got married, left the group, came back only to leave again while losing her fortune and turning to a ministry,Jean took Ross' place and the immense pressure of replacing her while Motown started to lose interest while she was always fighting to progress against a backdrop of indifference to her from Motown,Lynda replace Cindy as she auditioned with her sister for the spot and became aligned with Jean in the 18 months she was in the group, Scherrie replacing Jean and the pressure to learn the routines in 1 week while Motown had no interest in the group and her feelings of being a lead singer but having no say in their direction and Susaye coming in as the last Supreme with some very head strong ideas, being told by Pedro she would be lead singer and wanting to write for the group and finding that would not be true. As you see, all of them had some very strong stories that could make any of them a focal point, all of them had a strong story of interest and any one of them would be interesting.
Are you thinking major movie or 30 minute documentary Jim lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99
Of the original Supremes, I think all three would be compelling, none more or less than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
Diana's "rags to riches" story has to be one of the best examples of how hard work, determination, and luck [[yup, I said it, again) can result when the perfect combo of life lines up. It's unfortunate that Diana telling it herself, or being heavily involved, would ruin it because she'd be more than likely to gloss over or completely skip the more salacious aspects of her life, which IMO actually enrich her story, not ruin it.
Flo's story, on the other hand, being a "rags to riches back to rags" type of tagline is also one of those perfect examples of how a person can get in their own way, about coping with mental illness and past trauma, how the entertainment business can be harsh and devoid of feeling and not for the faint of heart. Her story is also one that shows how hard work and determination pays off. By all accounts, Flo was determined to make it as a singer and she accomplished that with the Supremes. In the end, while some focus on her untimely death, the fact that she was determined to pull herself up out of the despair she ended up in, is also another great aspect of her story. Sure, she died in the end, but she was clawing her way back prior to.
Mary's story combines the two. The highest highs and the lowest lows. Not a single solo hit under her belt, but Mary was determined, Supremes or no Supremes, she was not going to be forgotten, she would always be relevant. Where her "background" counterparts, like various Vandellas and Marvelettes and Chiffons, etc, faded into "normal" lives, Mary continued to tour, record, and champion causes, some of which had nothing to do with music. And it is sad that the fact that she was a domestic abuse survivor isn't as highlighted as it should be. And to come back after the death of her son...that lady was a real survivor.
A movie based on the Supremes would make for good viewing if done right, but I think movies on each lady might be even better.
Mary's story would make for a more interesting movie than Diana due to Mary's tenacity and the rollercoaster ride of her life and career.
Diana could be interesting so long as she and her family were not involved and didn't sue to prevent it from being made, because if they were involved in getting it made, it could end up rather vapid and new agey and "inspirational" in a hollow way. Unless Diana Ross and her family were willing to get real.
If we are talking tv documentary then fine. As regards a major motion picture, it would really need to be based on the Supremes as a whole. People tend to like tragedy, so a film on Diana alone might not spark enough interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
As much as I love them, i really can’t see a film based on the life story of Mary Wilson or Cindy Birdsong setting any box office records.
The Mary story would be more interesting.
The one 'left behind' and growing from someone who just 'oohed and ahhed' in the background to the one who carried the flame for the Supremes legacy for another 50 years.
I would go with Diana for reasons leading to she had to go through hell to get where she is now and I know it was not easy. However, we don't really have a movie yet on Michael Jackson so it may not happen. There is so much history about Diana after the Supremes that I just don't see how you could do it justice.
Let's face it. The general public wants to see major 'drama' where there's a villain [[real or perceived). For that reason, a story about Mary Wilson would draw more attention. Make sure it's done all in one segment without a part one and part two because most folks who watch it are only interested in the Supremes segment regarding the events of 1966-67. What should be the source for the script? Mary's books only? Diana's book? Perspectives that show both sides of the 1967 drama and the 1983 event?
Surely what makes the Supremes story worthy of a film, and historically so important is their major contribution in helping break down barriers of racism and segregation in a divided country. The indignities suffered on the road, with white only hotels and restaurants, not to mention being shot at is worth a film alone.
To add to this, you have the behind the scenes tragedy and drama of what was happening to Flo Ballad. The rest is interesting, though not as essentially relevant.
Wow I don’t remember that at all but I’ll take your word for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Hard to take this topic seriously. I'd go with Captain James' comment as good-enough to claim Diana's story as being the far superior one; extreme vision and stoic ambition resulting in incredible success certainly surpasses that of workmanlike competence in terms of interesting storytelling. This is not to say there will be a Diana bio-film anytime soon, nor would there need to be. There are really very few biopics made and most don't illuminate the subject much at all.
Hard to take this topic seriously. I'd go with Captain James' comment as good-enough to claim Diana's story as being the far superior one; extreme vision and stoic ambition resulting in incredible success certainly surpasses that of workmanlike competence and rare, minor achievements in terms of interesting storytelling. This is not to say there will be a Diana bio-film anytime soon, nor would there need to be. There are really very few biopics made and most don't illuminate the subject much at all.
P.S. Forgot to add the consecutive five number one hit singles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
Initially I was going to say that Mary's life story would make the better movie, but Diana's certainly has potential too, if they were to tell it truthfully, warts and all, and get into the challenges and tragedies she's encountered in her life. However, I can't ever see that happening. If there's any chance of it ever happening, they would have to make it into a mini-series, as it's impossible to properly tell one's life story in an engaging way, within a two hour film. For instance, the Aretha movie with Jennifer Hudson felt so superficial to me. The Genius mini series with Cynthia Ervio did a better job, despite some dialogue feeling cheesy and shoe-horned at times.
This reminds me...I remember in the early 2000's that Mary had filmed interview segments for her own Biography episode by A&E. I wonder if that episode was ever completed? I remember it was confirmed and then axed at the final hour. It would be interesting to see, if it was completed. I think I remember reading that her interview segments that were shown in the Diana Ross E True Hollywood Story were originally from her cancelled Biography episode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Yes, I seem to remember it was some time just before or after intermission, when the ensemble cast congregates in a scene that depicts the Detroit riots and civil rights protests, one of the protesters says something to the effect of, "We want answers from Motown! Why did you replace Florence Ballard with Cindy Birdsong?!" Etc. And then I seem to recall that it led into a scene that's basically supposed to be DMC performing The Happening on the Tennessee Ernie Ford special. I think that's as far as it went. Or was there also a scene beforehand between Diana and Berry, where they also say something about Flo missing shows?Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth
Carlo I seem to remember they do a scene regarding what happened in New Orleans where Berry is basically cornering Mary and Diana who are trying to cover for Flo's absence.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo
Thanks floyjoy678! I saw it twice and still barely remember the show, so I'm glad that you remember, for those of us that don't :DQuote:
Originally Posted by floyjoy678
oh dear. I'll have you know this is a very very VERY serious topic Peas.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony
But then, what Diana Ross related thread isn't!! :rolleyes::p
Mary's books were best sellers. If people would read about it, why not watch it? These women did not lead boring lives. Each lady's life was filled- FILLED- with drama, tragedy, and success; three things that basically write a screenplay itself. The Supremes as a story is obviously a great one, but it is important to remember that the group as a whole, and the women who made it up, were separate entities. I would not be opposed to a screen depiction that focused on the group as a whole, but Diana, Flo and Mary are individually interesting enough to have their own biopics. Whether or not the films would be box office successes would depend on a variety of things, so I refuse to take it into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
I did not know this, thanks for the info Carlo! I wonder why the episode was cancelled?Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo
Considering how often that poster finds the topics being discussed not to his liking, he still condescends to comment anyway. Should we be grateful lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogiedown
I agree in that they all have an individual story to tell. Potentially interesting as they may be, it’s the Supremes achievement as a whole that makes their story historically remarkable.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Whether Diana likes it or not, the history books will always remember her first and foremost as an original Supreme and all they accomplished.
I can understand the media interest in the life of Flo Ballad, being she was fired from the group, fell on hard times and died at a young age. People like a tragedy, and her story certainly ticks all the boxes. If a film were ever to be made about her, i would hope she’s not depicted as a sainted heroine, but rather the warm and sensitive person she was, struggling with her emotional demons.
As I stated before, each member has a compelling story in the history of the Supremes. If you go the original members each has their own story that the public may find fascinating-Florence with her tragic rape, her dismissal from the group, her ill fated solo attempt ,falling on difficult times and passing away so very young would appeal to a group of people. Others would see the story of Diana with her talent and determination, her romance with Berry and rising to success as lead singer and solo stardom. Others would find Mary's story as interesting-caught between two friends, keeping the group alive after both original members left her, her determination to succeed despite so many obstacles, her abusive marriage,her son's tragic passing, her determination and resolve to keep the group's legacy and herself alive to the public. Many different people like different types of stories and it depends on which you prefer. The group is certainly not lacking in a good story from any of its members.
I wonder if it had anything to do with song clearances. I remember an A&E Biography on Marvin Gaye that used basically none of his Motown-era stuff. They would just mention the titles of his hits and there would be some soundalike material in the background. Considering a Mary biography would delve into the sad side of the Supremes, I wouldn't be surprised if Jobete wouldn't allow their use.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
I would love a depiction of the history of the group. I think there's so much story to tell there between their humble beginnings, their drive and determination to succeed, their success, the drama that ensues because of it, and of course their individual dramas that impacted the group. But in the spirit of the thread, focusing on the ladies as individuals, I just think the three originals all have such compelling, emotional stories that would be a screenwriter's dream, one no more than the other, although Diana's story will probably be the one that ultimately sees the light of day, whenever it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
I have that episode on a VHS tape somewhere. I remember the generic music. I've heard it done that way in quite a few retrospective shows such as Biography. Good theory Reese, but it seems like such a silly reason to cancel the episode. With all the work that surely went into it [[or did it only get as far as Mary's interviews), why cancel over music rights? Surely live footage [[like Ed Sullivan, etc) are a good work around, I would think. And certainly the story could be told without using the music. Always seemed like Mary was drawing the short end of the stick in regards to exposure, at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Although given the dominance of superhero movies with fictional universes, a movie about the Supremes or any of its members does not have much chance of being made.
Unless one uses the Supremes story as a launching pad for a superhero movie. Florence Ballard is driven out of the Supremes by greedy, power hungry Diana Ross and Berry Gordy who are aided by go along to get along Mary Wilson. Flo goes through hell but at her lowest point she is infused with superpowers to plot her comeback. First she gets revenge against Mary and Diana and teaches them each a well learned lesson.
But then she learns of Berry's evil plot to rule the music universe and she must reconcile with Mary and Diana to defeat once and for all Berry's evil plan for music universe dominance.
It probably depends on the circumstances but I don't think using a television clip lets you evade clearance. When the Ronettes were profiled as one of the 100 Greatest Women in Rock and Roll, VH1 had to use a Hullabaloo clip of them singing SILHOUETTES instead of one of their own hits because Phil Spector wouldn't allow his compositions to be used. I wouldn't be surprised if Jobete did the same at times if they didn't approve of a project.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
This would make sense, Reese...as I don't seem to remember Diana's E True Hollywood Story special having any Supremes or Diana solo recordings in it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
I think if done correctly in the same style as Ken Burns’ documentaries, a Supremes documentary could be compelling and finally give the group the recognition they deserve. I had tried several times to pitch the idea to American Masters on PBS but never heard back. I do think the approval of song clearance is the major issue as Gordy won’t allow a Supremes film/series/documentary to happen. The thing is that it has to be done in a way where Mary, Flo & Cindy are not painted as the victims and Diana & Berry are not painted as the villains. There’s a way to tell truth without sugarcoating the facts and reality. I do think this can happen, but it needs the right director, writer, producer, and team to accurately and faithfully do it.
And I saw a "musical" called MY BROTHER MARVIN written by Marvin Gaye's sister. It had none of Marvin's music. Zeola Gaye was not allowed to use any of his music, so she padded the play by using other artist's music of the era. The book was strong and I think it would have been better presented as a play without any music since Marvin's music could not be used. I guess it was Jobette that denied the use of his musicQuote:
Originally Posted by reese
“My Brother Marvin,” is not a musical, it’s a drama. None of Marvin’s music is in the play. I tried to license it but could not get it. But there is music in the play.
.................................................. ....................... Zeola Gaye
https://www.caribbeanlife.com/my-bro...eacon-theatre/