The no hit claim I’ll give you that one. I trust the claim Circa made about Mary as much as I would trust a claim Marv would make about Diana. Mary did state that the Andantes actually we’re on 75 % of all Motown’s recordings including theirs.
What about that time she got pregnant by Berry Gordy, but led the public to believe the baby was with her husband Robert Silberstein. Oh my bad. That was Diana Ross that pulled that sham.
How about the time in Montreal at Expo '67 when questioned about Florence Ballard, she told the interviewer for the CBC that she had left the group to go into the antiques business. That was a whopper right there!
The way both sides argue it sounds more like a bunch of jr high school girls arguing over who said what . Which really makes me wonder what’s really true and what’s really full of it.
And Motown wasn't the only label where artists had to play the PR game. For years, the Supremes had to say they were "project girls" when the Brewster Projects that they grew up in was much nicer than what it became after they found fame. It's like when Whitney Houston pretended to be from the streets of Newark but she was really a middle class girl from East Orange [[though that one was something WH came up to "be down" lol).
I have to go look but what do the Merry Christmas liner notes say about the andantes?
Listened to the album today with headphones on and this is what I hear....
"White Christmas" -Diana and the Andantes
"Silver Bells" -Diana and the Andantes
"Born of Mary" -Diana, Mary, Flo and the Andantes
"Children's Christmas Song" -Diana, the Andantes and some stupid kids who cant sing
"The Little Drummer Boy"-Diana, Mary, Flo and the Andantes
"My Christmas Tree" -Diana and the Andantes
"Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" -Diana, Mary, Flo and the Andantes
"Santa Claus Is Coming to Town" -Diana, Mary, Flo and the Andantes
"My Favorite Things" -Diana and the Andantes
"Twinkle Twinkle Little Me" -Diana and the Andantes
"Little Bright Star" -Diana and the Andantes
"Joy to the World" -Diana and the Andantes
Are you a big fan of the the Andantes? LOL!!!!
Those " stupid kids who can't sing" were Berry Gordy Jr's children Berry IV, Hazel and Terry Gordy.
Attachment 16608
I read the liner notes to Merry Christmas - I think there were Supremes somewhere in some of the songs and I think the Supremes were involved in some of the sessions with Diana, Berry’s kids, as Nd the Andantes
I guess that helps some people but the kids were more important than the background vocalist on the one song and the critical piece is always the lead
I don't know where you are getting your information from, or who is telling you this stuff. The Brewster Projects were always a very dangerous place. I have seen it first hand when I was a kid, but listen to someone that actually lived there. Beginning at 20:20 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqa8hoEkUeE&t=760s
according to the booklet in the last EE of Merry Christmas, there are a LOT of unknown dates for these sessions. So that does open the door to speculation.
They state that lead vocals were cut for Silent Night and O Holy Night on 9/9. I'm assuming these are the Flo leads [[not Diana's Silent lead and i'm also assuming she never cut a lead for Holy, but who knows for certain). So Flo was in the studios on Sept 9.
Also on Sept 9 the backgrounds were recorded for Born of Mary, Rudolph, Santa Claus is Coming To Town and My Favorite Things. They also recut the backgrounds for Little Bright Star.
Now does that mean that Flo and possibly Mary are on those backgrounds? I don't know. But Flo was at a studio doing Xmas recordings on the same day that Xmas backgrounds were recorded.
The girls then were traveling and performing throughout Sept. 9/10 in Philly at JFK Stadium then 9/17 - 26 at the Safari Room in San Jose.
Other background recording dates are: 9/1 Twinkle, Little Bright and Joy to World, 9/13 White Christmas, 9/16 Children Xmas, Little Drummer, My Xmas Tree, 9/21 Silver Bells
So I'm going to GUESS that IF Flo and Mary are on Xmas album, it would most likely be Born of mary, Rudolph, Santa is Coming, Little Bright Star and Favorite. Possibly Twinkle and Joy
When listening to the songs, what tracks do you think you hear M and F on? Sometimes if you listen to the stereo versions of the songs and with headphones on, you can pick up backgrounds split between the two channels. Like on the Floy Joy album. that can help identify which parts might be Sups vs A's
I believe the EE also references some recording being done in Los Angeles or California.
Marv my grandparents lived across from the projects and you are 100% correct. I learned a lot in a short period of time. BUT, we made a few good friends. A few folks were quite colorful to say the least.
The DeBarge's mom Etherlene grew up in the Brewsters, as well as 80s Motown recording artist Val Young. You can find nice people anywhere, but the Brewster Projects were notorious for some rough people, not quite as bad as Cabrini Green or the Robert Taylor homes in Chicago, but rough, tough.
I got that information from Fred Ross, the father of you know who. Lol
Not saying Brewster wasn't without trouble even in those early years [[or any other Detroit city for that matter, I mean I read about Black Bottom and Highland Park, where Jackie Wilson became affiliated with a local gang there for protection), I'm sure the Supremes ran with the wrong crowds during their early years [[I distinctly remember reading chapters where Diana nearly had the group killed a few times because she decided to dance with audience members during their early gigs), but are we really gonna act like black neighborhoods are just inherently violent? Might as well call Cissy Houston a liar for suggesting Newark was a peaceful neighborhood prior to the riots and white flight...
Brewster didn't start to become real violent until after the Supremes began scoring hit after hit. The Supremes still lived in Brewster until mid-1965 when they bought their homes on Buena Vista Street.
I am playing this in my truck because of this thread.
I don't really pay a lot of attention to who the background might be; but this morning driving to work, on the few songs I heard - I sure didn't hear any Florence anywhere [[other than the added track, O Holy Night) and if Mary is doing those backgrounds, she's very buried behind Andantes.
If all of you would just listen to someone who was actually there when the recordings happened, I know for a FACT — A FACT — that it's Mozart, Beethoven and Handel who did ALL OF The Supremes' backing vocals on their Christmas album. Admittedly, it is a little known fact, but they all had beautiful female American-English singing voices way into their 200s. And you can quote me on that.
Fred Ross? What? You contacted a Medium? LOL! Did Fred tell you that he told Mary , Florence and Paul Williams not to let Diane join their group? He told them that she didn't have a "group mentality" and that they would be better off if they took his other daughter Barbara? LOL! You can't tell me about Detroit man. I spent half my childhood there, working there, everything there [[LOL!). Half of my relatives are or were from there! I cannot believe you are arguing about something where it is clear you know very little to nothing about. I don't know what you read. Maybe you saw something about how nice the projects were in the 1940s when they first started opening up. There is a bunch you cannot read about Diana Ross and a lot of other people........because it has not been written! I don't know about every black neighborhood, but I do know the ones in Detroit and they were/are ROUGH! You are lying when you say that the Brewster-Douglas Projects did not start to become real violent until after the Supremes began scoring hits. LOL! I wished I had a Time Machine so I could send you back there in the Mid-1950s. You would get beat up every day just for being so naive! LOL! Don't believe Mary? Ask some of the Brewster-Douglas Oldtimers in Detroit. There are still quite a few of them still around. Many of them show up whenever Mary Wilson is in town in concert.
Now here's something I did not know, Helen Thomas, former long time White House Correspondent grew up in that area too.
Lily Tomlin grew up in the Brewster Projects too. Her parents moved up from Tennesee.
Damn Marv I knew abt Lily Tomlin not Helen Thomas! Interesting.
Ralph and George may be able to help with one aspect I've wondered about. It seems that Motown specialty LPs were recorded quickly and a tad scattershot and rushed to the market. If any completed track was deemed artistically complete and releasable is it likely that the powers that be would take the time to mix in missing group vocals? Just for efficiency's sake I would think not. In today's world these could be punched in digitally at a moment's notice; in 1965 it would have been a more time-consuming procedure.