Close Encounters of The Motown Kind

Happy New Year to all! ;)


I was thinking of some of the coulda-shoulda-woulda and near-misses over Motown’s history.
Artists whose contracts ended before they began, or never quite got signed.

There’s;

Erma Franklin - I believe she popped into Motown studios to rehearse in the very early days but things never worked out to the signing stage.

Jack Soo - he says he recorded the first male version of ‘For Once In My Life’ for Motown in 1965. Are there any Jack Soo Motown recordings released or in the vaults?


Jeff Beck - recorded 9-11 tracks in Studio A in 1970.. Anyone know the song titles? Apparently there may have been a version of ‘‘I Can’t Give Back The Love [[I Feel For You)’.

Bette Midler - recorded 4-5 tracks in LA produced by Hal Davis in 1975. Anyone know these titles or if they have been found in the vaults?


James Brown - who said he’d sign with Motown in the 80s I believe, if Berry Gordy would call him directly.

Nothing quite came of the above…. I’d be interested to hear any other stories, fun facts, oddities and close-but-no-dicer’s y’all may have?


In the meantime this is a hint as to what coulda been…Jeff Beck in 1972;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d68hN2RhWQw

Here's one; the late J.J. Barnes. While according to his Wikipedia entry he was signed to Motown, he didn't have any of songs released [until they showed up decades later on the Cellarful Of Motown series and other collections of rare/unreleased Motown tracks]. According to legend, this was due to Barnes sounding a little too much like Marvin Gaye.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

Here's one; the late J.J. Barnes. While according to his Wikipedia entry he was signed to Motown, he didn't have any of songs released [until they showed up decades later on the Cellarful Of Motown series and other collections of rare/unreleased Motown tracks]. According to legend, this was due to Barnes sounding a little too much like Marvin Gaye.

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Yes, I always understood the Marvin conflict to be the case, I first heard of this many many ears ago. I always thought J.J and Marvin were exceptionally alike.

J.J.s last interview in October before passing...
MUSIC
Detroit soul man J.J. Barnes looks back on his career ahead of what he says could be his final live performance
The ‘Chains of Love’ singer is set to perform at northern soul festival Detroit-A-Go-Go
By Adam Stanfel on Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 4:00 am




“We didn’t want Wingate to sell out to Berry,” remembers Barnes. Ever the hustler, Wingate had done the unthinkable. By signing talented artists like Edwin Starr, George Clinton’s the Parliaments, the Reflections, and Barnes, and by building a world-class studio, the little-label-that-could on West Davison had succeeded in making the big boys on West Grand more than a little uncomfortable. But more than just recognizing and neutralizing a local artistic threat, Berry Gordy and his Motown empire were also in need of an additional recording studio to accommodate the onslaught of recording dates they had on the books. Just 18 months after opening for business, Wingate accepted an offer somewhere around the $1 million dollar mark for his Golden World enterprises. The deal included all the label’s recordings, the studio, and the recording contracts of Starr and Barnes.


“Ed called me into his office, and said, ‘I made a deal with Motown. You’ll have to deal with them from now on,’” Barnes recalls. “And that was it. I went over there and talked to [Motown exec] Ralph Seltzer. We made a deal, and right away I started recording for them.” At the height of his artistic abilities, Barnes was finally and officially in the major leagues.


Recording dates quickly ensued, resulting in storming soul stomps of the highest order. But much to Barnes’s dismay, stellar sides like “Show Me the Way” and “Every Time I See You, I Go Wild” languished on the shelf. The problem was soon made clear to Barnes.


“Eddie Holland came to me and said, ‘I just left a meeting with Berry [[Gordy), [[Harvey) Fuqua, and Marvin [[Gaye),” Barnes recalls. “Marvin is bitching and bitching and just going crazy up there, man.’” Apparently, Gaye felt that Barnes sounded just a little too much like him. “Eddie asked if I could change my style,” he says. “I said, ‘change my style?’ I’ve been singing like this all my life!’”


The fact was, neither Barnes nor Motown were ever entirely comfortable with each other. “Not long after that, I was standing by myself on the front porch of Motown and Marvin came up behind me and whispered in my ear, ‘You a bad mother fucker’ and then just walked off,” he says. “I didn’t really know how to take that.” Frustrated and uneasy with his surroundings, the singer made his mind up to leave Motown.


“I got a release from Motown, but they got the rights to the things I had recorded for them,” he says. Fortuitously however, just before he left the company, the Motown family provided one parting gift in the form of an assist from Stevie Wonder. “I was in the studio working on my song ‘Baby Please Come Back Home,’” he says. “Stevie Wonder walked in and said, ‘I like that, can I try it?’ I thought ‘Hey, you’re Stevie Wonder. Go ahead!’ He helped me with the changes, and I offered him a writer’s credit, but he said he didn’t really deserve it and told me to keep it. Stevie said, ‘This is going to be a big hit for you.’ It was like he prophesized it. It turned out to be the biggest hit of my career.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PauloRich

Happy New Year to all! ;)


I was thinking of some of the coulda-shoulda-woulda and near-misses over Motown’s history.
Artists whose contracts ended before they began, or never quite got signed.
I’d be interested to hear any other stories, fun facts, oddities and close-but-no-dicer’s y’all may have?

---

Attachment 20149
Berry Gordy approached Aretha Franklin during the early 1960s [[1961?), offering her a contract, but her father, Reverend Franklin, advised her not to sign with Motown, and she ended up leaving Chess Records, and signing with Columbia.

There were many young Detroit singers who hung around 2648 Grand Blvd., who wanted to get signed by Motown to an artist's contract, during the early '60s, who didn't, several of whom ended up having their contracts revert to Motown during Gordy's buyouts of Golden World, Thelma Records, or the merging with Hardeye [[Harvey) Productions [[some of whom went on to work with Motown, and others were "cut" by Motown [[not wanted), or refused to work for Motown, and signed with Wingate's new Ric-Tic, or Don Davis' Groovesville or Solid Hitbound Productions.

Al Hamilton [[AKA Kent), was one, as were his brothers, Bob[[AKA Rob Reeco), and Eugene [[AKA Ronny Savoy), who had their own group, The Nitecaps during the late 1950s, and ALL had wanted to sign with Motown in The Early '60s. Al and Ronny both tried out for them during the early '60s, but were turned down. Bobby and Al both later ended up working as songwriters there for short stints. And Al's contract was approved by Berry upon Golden World's 1st purchase, but Al refused, and signed with Wingate's new Ric-Tic Records. I think I remember reading that Ronny and Motown negotiated for a contract in the late '60s, but it fell through. Maybe some recordings were done.

Betty LaVette tried out and wanted to sign with Motown in the early 1960s, but her parents didn't like Gordy's contract offer, and she signed with Atlantic. Much later [['70s), she came to Motown and had an LP released.

Gwen Owens tried out with Motown during the early mid '60s, and was turned down, but was signed to a contract in 1972, and recorded in Memphis [[or was it Muscle Shoals?), but recordings from that project were never released [[as I recall). They were in Motown's Vaults in the 1970s.

The story of young Detroit singers wanting to get signed with Motown during 1959-64, and having singing tryouts [[recorded or not), and failing to be signed, either by being rejected, or choosing not to be signed because of parents advice or rejecting the contract offer, and the singers having a singing tryout only, being recorded as part of the tryout, or renting The Snakepit to record samples to submit to Gordy, was the case for many other young Detroit singers during that period. Motown rented out their recording studio during open available hours from it's start in 1959 through to about the beginning of Fall, 1964.

There were other reasonably well-known Detroit singers. who fit that scenario, I knew of, but can't now recall, off the top of my head. I'll add them as I think of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK

Yes, I always understood the Marvin conflict to be the case, I first heard of this many many ears ago. I always thought J.J and Marvin were exceptionally alike.

J.J.s last interview in October before passing...
MUSIC
Detroit soul man J.J. Barnes looks back on his career ahead of what he says could be his final live performance
The ‘Chains of Love’ singer is set to perform at northern soul festival Detroit-A-Go-Go
By Adam Stanfel on Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 4:00 am




“We didn’t want Wingate to sell out to Berry,” remembers Barnes. Ever the hustler, Wingate had done the unthinkable. By signing talented artists like Edwin Starr, George Clinton’s the Parliaments, the Reflections, and Barnes, and by building a world-class studio, the little-label-that-could on West Davison had succeeded in making the big boys on West Grand more than a little uncomfortable. But more than just recognizing and neutralizing a local artistic threat, Berry Gordy and his Motown empire were also in need of an additional recording studio to accommodate the onslaught of recording dates they had on the books. Just 18 months after opening for business, Wingate accepted an offer somewhere around the $1 million dollar mark for his Golden World enterprises. The deal included all the label’s recordings, the studio, and the recording contracts of Starr and Barnes.


“Ed called me into his office, and said, ‘I made a deal with Motown. You’ll have to deal with them from now on,’” Barnes recalls. “And that was it. I went over there and talked to [Motown exec] Ralph Seltzer. We made a deal, and right away I started recording for them.” At the height of his artistic abilities, Barnes was finally and officially in the major leagues.


Recording dates quickly ensued, resulting in storming soul stomps of the highest order. But much to Barnes’s dismay, stellar sides like “Show Me the Way” and “Every Time I See You, I Go Wild” languished on the shelf. The problem was soon made clear to Barnes.


“Eddie Holland came to me and said, ‘I just left a meeting with Berry [[Gordy), [[Harvey) Fuqua, and Marvin [[Gaye),” Barnes recalls. “Marvin is bitching and bitching and just going crazy up there, man.’” Apparently, Gaye felt that Barnes sounded just a little too much like him. “Eddie asked if I could change my style,” he says. “I said, ‘change my style?’ I’ve been singing like this all my life!’”


The fact was, neither Barnes nor Motown were ever entirely comfortable with each other. “Not long after that, I was standing by myself on the front porch of Motown and Marvin came up behind me and whispered in my ear, ‘You a bad mother fucker’ and then just walked off,” he says. “I didn’t really know how to take that.” Frustrated and uneasy with his surroundings, the singer made his mind up to leave Motown.


“I got a release from Motown, but they got the rights to the things I had recorded for them,” he says. Fortuitously however, just before he left the company, the Motown family provided one parting gift in the form of an assist from Stevie Wonder. “I was in the studio working on my song ‘Baby Please Come Back Home,’” he says. “Stevie Wonder walked in and said, ‘I like that, can I try it?’ I thought ‘Hey, you’re Stevie Wonder. Go ahead!’ He helped me with the changes, and I offered him a writer’s credit, but he said he didn’t really deserve it and told me to keep it. Stevie said, ‘This is going to be a big hit for you.’ It was like he prophesized it. It turned out to be the biggest hit of my career.”

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Barnes' voice isn't naturally the same as Marvin Gaye's. On his later Contempo recordings he's more of a straightforward soul singer in need of good material and a sympathetic producer.

Regarding Barnes' Motown tracks, it therefore seems as though there was a clear effort to make him sound like Marvin, including pushing him into his upper register so that he had to switch to falsetto like Marvin, and also equalising his voice to sharpen up the higher frequencies a bit. Also, some of the arrangements, including vocal arrangements, are pure mid-60s Marvin.

The fact that these J.J. Barnes recordings sound like Marvin Gaye recordings is, therefore, no accident, and I would suggest that his producers at Motown were seriously complicit in trying to "Marvin-ize" J.J., meaning that they created a problem that could only really be solved in one way, with J.J. being the loser.

What a stupid waste!

Here's another one; The 5th Dimension. They auditioned for Motown's West Coast Office in 1965 and while Berry Gordy turned them down, Marc Gordon [who headed up the Office] decided to manage the group. They would go on to huge success from the late '60s thru the early '70s. And without founding members Billy Davis, Jr. & Marilyn McCoo, a new lineup of The 5th Dimension would sign with Motown for two albums in 1978.
PS: And as we know, both The 5th Dimension & Diana Ross recorded competing versions of "Love Hangover" in 1976.

J.J. Barnes in his own words...
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2gfve

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Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

Here's another one; The 5th Dimension. They auditioned for Motown's West Coast Office in 1965 and while Berry Gordy turned them down, Marc Gordon [who headed up the Office] decided to manage the group. They would go on to huge success from the late '60s thru the early '70s. And without founding members Billy Davis, Jr. & Marilyn McCoo, a new lineup of The 5th Dimension would sign with Motown for two albums in 1978.
PS: And as we know, both The 5th Dimension & Diana Ross recorded competing versions of "Love Hangover" in 1976.

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I've always thought about what would have happened if the 5th Dimension had been signed to Motown in the 60s. I think it was a blessing that they were NOT singed. More than likely, they would have been handed over to all the songwriters who worked with the artists who didn't have hits. Motown would have straightjacketed their unique group vocal style to fit the Motown Sound, including using the already-existing vocals of the Andantes and Originals on various tracks instead of the actual group. In fact, I'd bet that in time, they'd attempt to focus exclusively on Marilyn McCoo, gradually recording only her, to the exclusion of the others. We DEFINITELY wouldn't have gotten true albums [[as opposed to 12 songs recorded as possible singles) like "The Magic Garden," "Stoned Soul Picnic" and "The Age of Aquarius."

So, thank you Motown, for NOT signing the 5th Dimension in the 60s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotosound

Barnes' voice isn't naturally the same as Marvin Gaye's. On his later Contempo recordings he's more of a straightforward soul singer in need of good material and a sympathetic producer.

Regarding Barnes' Motown tracks, it therefore seems as though there was a clear effort to make him sound like Marvin, including pushing him into his upper register so that he had to switch to falsetto like Marvin, and also equalising his voice to sharpen up the higher frequencies a bit. Also, some of the arrangements, including vocal arrangements, are pure mid-60s Marvin.

The fact that these J.J. Barnes recordings sound like Marvin Gaye recordings is, therefore, no accident, and I would suggest that his producers at Motown were seriously complicit in trying to "Marvin-ize" J.J., meaning that they created a problem that could only really be solved in one way, with J.J. being the loser.

What a stupid waste!

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It seemed that with J.J. they basically handed him songs that were in search of a singer, instead of songs that were intended for him. I'm not knocking the songs, but I keep thinking, it might have worked out a lot better if they had just assigned James Dean and William Weatherspoon to work exclusively with J.J. Those guys had a fantastic formula and, yeah, it would basically have just been another artist placed into a pre-designed Motown picture frame, but at least, I think the results would have been a lot more consistent and given J.J. a chance to get something of his own turf at Motown. BUT, yeah, even that wouldn't have worked out- not as long as comparisons were being made between him and Marvin. Such a shame because J.J. recorded some darn fine things at Ric Tic and he deserved better.

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

I've always thought about what would have happened if the 5th Dimension had been signed to Motown in the 60s. I think it was a blessing that they were NOT singed. More than likely, they would have been handed over to all the songwriters who worked with the artists who didn't have hits. Motown would have straightjacketed their unique group vocal style to fit the Motown Sound, including using the already-existing vocals of the Andantes and Originals on various tracks instead of the actual group. In fact, I'd bet that in time, they'd attempt to focus exclusively on Marilyn McCoo, gradually recording only her, to the exclusion of the others. We DEFINITELY wouldn't have gotten true albums [[as opposed to 12 songs recorded as possible singles) like "The Magic Garden," "Stoned Soul Picnic" and "The Age of Aquarius."

So, thank you Motown, for NOT signing the 5th Dimension in the 60s.

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And I agree that The 5th Dimension wouldn't have been a good fit for Motown in the '60s. They excelled in the Sunshine Pop Soul sound that they had during their hit making run. However, their first single on Soul City, "I'll Be Loving You Forever", is a good example of what the group might've sounded like if they did sign with '60s Motown.

https://youtu.be/HCjj9GYVnUU

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

I've always thought about what would have happened if the 5th Dimension had been signed to Motown in the 60s. I think it was a blessing that they were NOT singed. More than likely, they would have been handed over to all the songwriters who worked with the artists who didn't have hits. Motown would have straightjacketed their unique group vocal style to fit the Motown Sound, including using the already-existing vocals of the Andantes and Originals on various tracks instead of the actual group. In fact, I'd bet that in time, they'd attempt to focus exclusively on Marilyn McCoo, gradually recording only her, to the exclusion of the others. We DEFINITELY wouldn't have gotten true albums [[as opposed to 12 songs recorded as possible singles) like "The Magic Garden," "Stoned Soul Picnic" and "The Age of Aquarius."

So, thank you Motown, for NOT signing the 5th Dimension in the 60s.

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They also let Jimmy Webb go from his Jobete contract around the same time, so they lost a potential money making partnership. But I agree, their style and Jimmy's songs didn't fit and it's a blessing both were freed to go and do what they did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robb_k

Attachment 20149
Berry Gordy approached Aretha Franklin during the early 1960s [[1961?), offering her a contract, but her father, Reverend Franklin, advised her not to sign with Motown, and she ended up leaving Chess Records, and signing with Columbia.

There were many young Detroit singers who hung around 2648 Grand Blvd., who wanted to get signed by Motown to an artist's contract, during the early '60s, who didn't, several of whom ended up having their contracts revert to Motown during Gordy's buyouts of Golden World, Thelma Records, or the merging with Hardeye [[Harvey) Productions [[some of whom went on to work with Motown, and others were "cut" by Motown [[not wanted), or refused to work for Motown, and signed with Wingate's new Ric-Tic, or Don Davis' Groovesville or Solid Hitbound Productions...

...There were other reasonably well-known Detroit singers. who fit that scenario, I knew of, but can't now recall, off the top of my head. I'll add them as I think of them.

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Wow, what interesting insights. I knew you guys would dig deep into the vaults :)

I remember reading the J. J. Barnes story. An extremely talented vocalist. I think there was room at Motown at the time for another male singer and agree that it was a case of missing giving J. J. his own identity. A missed opportunity that perhaps Jimmy Ruffin filled to a lesser quality.

The Parliaments I’d forgotten about. Too much like The Temptations at the time, as George Clinton recalled.

I agree that the 5th Dimension benefited from freedom to do what they felt, otherwise they could have been pitched against Gladys Knight & The Pips, who we needed more - not less - of already.

That’s interesting about all the local female singers, including Aretha Franklin. Aretha finally got her Motown debut in 1982 with The Four Tops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXhwXsBHO6o


Thanks @robb_k - you really conjure up a vibrant image of hope and ambition…


Fascinating. I never knew that about Al Kent and his brothers. I imagine what could have been with the many one-offs and those who provided vocal back ups and demos such as Oma Heard/Drake, Anita Knorl, Linda Griner, Connie Van Dyke, Thelma Brown. Thelma Hopkins and Pam and Joyce Vincent had stints in the studio as back ups too. Did I read right that Scherrie Payne was going to be signed as a solo artist before The Supremes? And Freda Payne was a potential signing?


It would have been cool to have a Patrice Holloway album around her 1970s time in Josie and the The Pussycats. Here she is channelling her best Michael Jackson;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3-d45vXMEs


And I always thought an Etta James Motown album between her label signings in 1965 or 1971 would have been an interesting potential. Etta James and The Funk Brothers with Berry Gordy and Smokey as producers…or Norman Whitfield! The closest there is is the Etta take on The Temptations Shakey Ground…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLrEzH_22uo

It would be awesome to hear what Gwen Owens recorded at 'Motown South' with Terry Woodford and Clayton Ivey. It seems a couple of the recordings 'You Better Watch Out' and 'Everybody Needs Love' were reworked and came out on Cassablanca in 1973. They then went on to write and produce on both The Supremes and then HOT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

And I agree that The 5th Dimension wouldn't have been a good fit for Motown in the '60s. They excelled in the Sunshine Pop Soul sound that they had during their hit making run. However, their first single on Soul City, "I'll Be Loving You Forever", is a good example of what the group might've sounded like if they did sign with '60s Motown.

https://youtu.be/HCjj9GYVnUU

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I don't think I've ever listened to this track but you are sooooo right...it's got Motown Sound written all over it.

Another major name signed by Motown with much fanfare in the late '70s and no releases: Lola Falana.

I respect what people are saying about the problems where it was felt that J.J. and Marvin just sounded too much alike and that perhaps J.J. was being "bent" [my word] into sounding that way [which I don't entirely disagree with], but take a listen to this unreleased 1964 recording by J.J. This sounds SO MUCH like Marvin Gaye. I think that when J.J. was singing smoothly...yeah, there was a similarity to Marvin. I have 57 tracks in my music library by J.J. with the majority recorded between 1963 and 1970. Do they all have that "Marvin sound"? NO. But... just listen to this and tell me if you don't hear a Marvin flavor in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFAl3zoRiMo

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Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

And I agree that The 5th Dimension wouldn't have been a good fit for Motown in the '60s. They excelled in the Sunshine Pop Soul sound that they had during their hit making run. However, their first single on Soul City, "I'll Be Loving You Forever", is a good example of what the group might've sounded like if they did sign with '60s Motown.

https://youtu.be/HCjj9GYVnUU

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This is interesting. Actually I think this really underscores the difficulty many record companies had with doing Motown-style records. There's something here that just doesn't seem to "hang together", the elements aren't as tight and flawless as Motown's productions. Motown would have buffed and polished this thing until it was as glossy and slick as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimChipping

They also let Jimmy Webb go from his Jobete contract around the same time, so they lost a potential money making partnership. But I agree, their style and Jimmy's songs didn't fit and it's a blessing both were freed to go and do what they did.

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Yeah I remember being shocked that Jimmy Webb at one time was a Jobette writer. Motown definitely was NOT the record label for his thoughtful, introspective songs. Motown had a thing they excelled at and knew how to market. Songs like Jimmy Webb's could have only thrived at a company that wasn't as intensive on hit pop love songs like Motown. Motown had a formula, if you will, and Jimmy Webb, I don't think was a formula writer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

This is interesting. Actually I think this really underscores the difficulty many record companies had with doing Motown-style records. There's something here that just doesn't seem to "hang together", the elements aren't as tight and flawless as Motown's productions. Motown would have buffed and polished this thing until it was as glossy and slick as possible.

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Another thing about this record, it was written & co-produced by Willie Hutch [who would do a memorable stint with Motown in the '70s].

I didn't know Motown signed Lola Falana. That could have been something special. Something along the lines of Leslie Uggams, Diahann Carroll outings.

The Jimmy Webb thing was always a potential hard to manifest. Ironic that a whole bunch of Motown artists went on to record his non-Motown compositions,
Joe Harnell, The Four Tops etc - at the same time Jimmy Webb was working with 5th Dimension.

Jimmy's laid-back-country 'Honey Come Back' number was first recorded by Dorsey Burnette for Motown in 1965 and unreleased. Chuck Jackson put out the first released version of the song for Motown in 1969 and Junior Walker & The All Stars a year later. Jimmy didn't record his own version until 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoDf5HXOXfY

There's a slight would-could-have-been with Jimmy dueting with Jean Terrell on The Supremes 'Once In The Morning'. As a side note, Jimmy Webb's 1965 'My Christmas Tree' by The Supremes is one of my favourite Motown Crimbo songs. All the girls sing delightfully and the verse outro and chorus are ahead of the time. It shows what could be acheived when songs leaned out of the tradition Motown Sound a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZNnKNGvPVs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

Another thing about this record, it was written & co-produced by Willie Hutch [who would do a memorable stint with Motown in the '70s].

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It's really spooky sometimes just how extensively the Circle of Motown extends. Would Willie or the Fifth Dimension back then have guessed they'd wind up at Motown someday?

The 5th Dimension had two Motown 45's Motown 1437 & Motown 1453 back end of the 7T's.
Fully agree with Motown not taking on board the 5th Dimensions during the 6T's.
However they did a stunning track written by Valerie Simpson & Nick Ashford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUEwKxthspc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVsKdc4cFI

The late, great Danny Beard on lead! He replaced Bill Davis Jr in the group

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

It's really spooky sometimes just how extensively the Circle of Motown extends. Would Willie or the Fifth Dimension back then have guessed they'd wind up at Motown someday?

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Yes it is interesting that the Circle of Motown reaches so far. And here's another example from The 5th Dimension; their 1968 hit "California Soul" written by Nick Ashford & Valerie Simpson who were working at Motown then. And this song is a remake of the original version by The Messengers which came out on Motown's Soul label in 1967 [as the B-side of "Window Shopping"].

https://youtu.be/7bJSm9ZcbJE

https://i.discogs.com/BpNh1R943X5NYD...IwLmpwZWc.jpeg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PauloRich

Happy New Year to all! ;)


I was thinking of some of the coulda-shoulda-woulda and near-misses over Motown’s history.
Artists whose contracts ended before they began, or never quite got signed.

There’s;

Erma Franklin - I believe she popped into Motown studios to rehearse in the very early days but things never worked out to the signing stage.

Jack Soo - he says he recorded the first male version of ‘For Once In My Life’ for Motown in 1965. Are there any Jack Soo Motown recordings released or in the vaults?


Jeff Beck - recorded 9-11 tracks in Studio A in 1970.. Anyone know the song titles? Apparently there may have been a version of ‘‘I Can’t Give Back The Love [[I Feel For You)’.

Bette Midler - recorded 4-5 tracks in LA produced by Hal Davis in 1975. Anyone know these titles or if they have been found in the vaults?


James Brown - who said he’d sign with Motown in the 80s I believe, if Berry Gordy would call him directly.

Nothing quite came of the above…. I’d be interested to hear any other stories, fun facts, oddities and close-but-no-dicer’s y’all may have?


In the meantime this is a hint as to what coulda been…Jeff Beck in 1972;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d68hN2RhWQw

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Jack Soo has a couple of vaulted Motown track including FOIML

The circles of Motown are ripples that will reach every artist in some capcity or another, either nearly signed, wanting to be signed, or performing a collab or cover.

It was interesting to hear Rick James talk about how Jim Morrison was so fascinated with Motown music, musicians, production and recording techniques. And Neil Young's Motown recollections.

If Motown had signed The 5th Dimension as The Versatiles in 1965 they would have probably sat on the shelf. At least they were able to hone their breadth of talent before eventualy signing to Motown in the 70s.

Thanks Paul, do you think that the Jack Soo tracks will ever be released?

I also read somwhere that there were talks of Motown signing Lena Horne around the time of The Wiz. But that could just be hearsay.

I think back to[major lance] signing with motown in the late seventies, and the wasted effort of[now arriving] on the soul lable, not a bad lp but i never heard any of his motown stuff on the radio.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paul_nixon

Jack Soo has a couple of vaulted Motown track including FOIML

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Paul, if you're willing to do so, would you tell us the performance quality of those vaulted Jack Soo tracks? While Mr. Soo could certainly carry a tune and put over a performance, I'm curious as to how well he meshed with the Motown [presumably] MOR sound that was being used with Barbara McNair, Tony Martin, Connie Haines, etc. While I don't think I'd want a Classic Motown group unreleased track [think Sups, Temps, Tops, etc.] passed over on a Cellarful-type collection for a Jack Soo track, I'm curious why [after 5 volumes of COFM, as an example] we've never gotten anything previously unreleased by Jack Soo? As a Motown fan, I can't imagine even a "horrible" track by someone like Mr. Soo would be unwelcome [by me].

I second that emotion ;) New nuggets are harder to come by and Jack Soo X Motown is an interesting part of American history