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Comparing these two songs on subject matter and not performances, which represents the more heartfelt lyrical and musical statement. This movie title song should have been a #1 hit.
It peaked on Billboard Hot 100 Songs at #9 and #9 on Billboard Adult Contemporary Charts. If this song had more TV exposure by Diana Ross, would it have been a #1 Song?
Again, the masterful production and co-writing art of the great Michael Masser.
IMT is a pop song wonder!
Ah, "It's My Turn" is indeed a powerful production, musically and lyrically. I've always had a special place in my heart the words. At my retirement event several years ago, I made a few closing remarks and did an impromptu singing of a few lines of "It's My Turn" which was reminiscent of the lines Diana sang on the Oprah show. Although my teacher co-workers knew I was also a part time musician on the side, they didn't know that I sang. Well, I am not a singer; I just made an attempt to interpret the message of the lyrics.
i think the problem with It's My Turn is that it was release SO close after I'm Coming Out and Upside Down. all three are masterful singles and all three deserved to be huge hits. and all three were big. but i'm not sure all were as huge as they COULD have been
Upside Down - released June 18, 80
I'm Coming Out - released August 22, 80
It's My Turn - released Sept 29, 80
i've not done all of my chart research this far out [[stopped in 77). But i know i've read that these singles were overlapping each other. Weren't UD and ICO in the Top 10 at the same time? and both i believe were still top 40 when IMT was charting too.
the only reason i know of the fast paced timing was 1) IMT was released to coincide with the movie release and 2) perhaps motown was looking to strike while hot, UD was just massive so ICO was released to build off that power. let's not wait for things to die down
in one of Randy's book i thought he sort of hinted that maybe motown was trying to get a bunch of hot hits on DR just before her contract came up so [[which i believe was Oct or Nov 80) and have them chart well so that she would be prompted to resign quickly.
but i don't know that anyone REALLY thought she wouldn't resign. sure she might have been pissed about Ross 78 and The Wiz, and she and Berry weren't close. but i don't think anyone thought she'd leave. at least in early fall 80
Taraborrelli writes in CHMR when Diana was given the audit from Motown for how many copies of "My Turn" had sold..she was suspicious of the tally he speculates BG could have used payola to keep the single in the chart for her contract negotiations - then points out this illegal practice Motown has never been accused of it and although it was a strong song it just wasnt a big sellerQuote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
A song title with a movie could become a massive hit. We're there any TV appearances by Diana Ross for this song? Michael Masser shines on the production of this song. The music is also uplifting. Diana Ross owns this song by her heartfelt vocals. Of all the Diana Ross hits, this one should have been a #1 hit. I love when singers talk about songs close to their heart. Perhaps, this is why Diana Ross sang the song to Oprah Winfrey on her TV show.
[QUOTE=TNSUN;613224]A song title with a movie could become a massive hit. We're there any TV appearances by Diana Ross for this song? Michael Masser shines on the production of this song. The music is also uplifting. Diana Ross owns this song by her heartfelt vocals. Of all the Diana Ross hits, this one should have been a #1 hit. I love when singers talk about songs close to their heart. Perhaps, this is why Diana Ross sang the song to Oprah Winfrey on her TV show.[/
TNSUN -the only tv appearance of song at the time was on her "diana" tv special [[different studio arrangement)..the moment she partially sang it on Oprah gives me chills down my spine
I like It's My Turn but it was nowhere in the league of Touch Me In The Morning or Do You Know Where You're Going To, the two biggies.
Many Masser compositions didn't exactly set the chart on fire for Diana - Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right, I Thought It Took a Little Time, One More Chance/After You, Cryin' My Heart Out For You.
i don't think there's any question that the close proximity of UD, ICO and ITT ate into each other's sales.
In Cash Box UD and ICO were #s 6 and 7 when IMT was in it's third week.
Upside Down was just so big and hung around a long while, I'm Sure ICO could have gone a few places higher and sold more had it been released a month later.
Yes there was something strange about the chart placing of IMT on Billboard in relation to the supposed sales of the record - of course maybe it was just massive in airplay.
We were used to seeing Diana's records chart higher in Cash Box and Record World and interestingly it only reached #s 18 and 20 in them.
Although Cash Box had begun to incorporate airplay in the late 70s it was still largely sales based so maybe the fact is it just wasn't that massive a seller.
MW is a great, timeless performance by Sinatra but I, for one, can only take so much of Frankie-poo's late-career bellowing. I love Aretha's slash-and-burn reinvention of both MW and IMT [[I also love Nina Simone's take on MW) but for me the favorite of all these is Diana's IMT. Understated, perfectly sung and utterly moving and gorgeous. For me the only surprise is that IMT had hit-single-status at all; didn't really fit into Top 20 playslists at the time, that's for sure.
I love IT'S MY TURN but I think it became a hit because Diana was so hot with the Chic material and it benefited from that. Subsequent Masser releases like ONE MORE CHANCE and CRYIN' MY HEART OUT FOR YOU didn't chart well at all, leading me to think that his sound was not really what the public wanted from Diana at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony
One More Chance suffers from a rather harsh vocal on the ending. When Diana is snarling and growling. it's one thing to be emotional. it's another to sound rabid.
OMC and Cryin were released in Feb and May respectively. Endless Love was released in June. One More possibly could have charted better but it received little promotion. which is odd since it was released AFTER diana's contract had expired and [[i believe) before she announced her RCA deal. not sure exactly when the official announcement came about the new deal. I'd guess though that by Feb, it was pretty clear she wasn't going to sign. so the release went nowhere. and she did nothing to promote either it or Cryin
And Cryin was released just prior to Endless which obvious washed it away
Haven't listen to ITS MY TURN in years but when I think of the song I think of hearing it's my turn , it's my turn , it's my turn it's my turn and that's about it.. I obviously need to listen again lol.
MY WAY becomes iconic because its reflective sentiments are appropriate for that period of his career and Frank Sinatra seems to effortlessly own of what he is singing. There's a sense of bravado to it that suits him .
Off hand, I'm not sure what it's Diana Ross' turn for ?? I'll have to give it a closer listen .
Going by memory, I don't think the news about Diana leaving Motown had been confirmed when TO LOVE AGAIN was released. I remember seeing the album in a store and being so disappointed that it had only three new songs on it. I also remember thinking that it probably wouldn't produce hits because she was back to Masser instead of Ashford and Simpson or Chic.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I didn't end up buying the TLA until 3/30/81, a few weeks after her "diana" special aired. The word still wasn't out about her leaving Motown though. But a bit later, a local dj named Sunny Joe White [[who absolutely loved Diana) played SURRENDER and when it ended he said something about how RCA had "surrendered" $20 million to Diana.
i believe the phrase "It's My Turn" starts each verse. But then the verses dig into what the singer has been experiencing - how they were living as the OTHER person wanted but not necessarily how they wanted. how they were putting the others ahead of themselves. but not now. now it's MY turn
or OUR turn
hee hee
I wonder how Diana really felt about BG flooding the market with Motown product when she left for RCA [[To Love Again,Diana Duets,All The Great Hits..)
She was quoted as saying she expected it. But if you think about it, Berry didn't really put out that much. TLA was released before anyone knew she was leaving and ALL THE GREAT HITS was a greatest hits collection that came at the right time, providing a nice bookend to her Motown years.Quote:
Originally Posted by nomis
If Berry had come out with a ton of unreleased material that might have upset her. But he only put out that one single, WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. Though I liked it, it was incredibly dated by the time of its release. I doubt many djs seriously played it like they would have played a new RCA release.
thanks for the clarification Reese - apparently her comments in the press that she would always love Berry and Motown made him send a memo to Motown staff cancelling an album of unreleased material [[was that the compilation to be called "Revelations" ? im getting old cant remember lol) ..also what year was the "Love Songs" compilation released in the U.K. im sure it was some time around the RCA signing..it was a hefty seller in the UK...Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
The Sunny Joe White story is great fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
He was a really big fan. After she moved to RCA, he was able to get an exclusive interview with her for his radio station, KISS 108FM. But he was so excited that he forgot to turn on the tape recorder. He felt so bad that he actually announced he was leaving the station but after he calmed down, he ended up staying.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony
It’s bizarre that Motown chose not to release another single from the diana album.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
“Old Flame” was beyond dated at that point in time. Even a song from The Boss would have made more sense.
Motown US probably would have released another single from "diana" if they weren't forced to issue IT'S MY TURN because of the film of the same name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
They did end up releasing MY OLD PIANO in 1981, around the time they released ALL THE GREAT HITS. It was actually issued in a picture sleeve that used the illustration from that album and said something like "The song that was #1 in England". Of course by then, Diana had already left the company. I doubt they did any real promotion on it and radio was probably already hot on the RCA material.
I still don’t understand the logic in releasing a dated sounding song such as “Old Flame”. It seems a pointless exercise. If Motown was shooting for one last hit from Diana, there were certainly better options available.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
.
I don't either but it might indicate that Motown had very little contemporary-sounding unreleased material on Diana to put out. When I first saw WCNLTOFA listed in JET, the title made me think it would be one of those extravagant Masser ballads. So I was really surprised when I bought the record and saw that is was a Holland/Holland production.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
I suspect that Motown knew [[knows) that there are some fans who will buy everything but I can't believe they seriously thought it would be a hit. Most likely, they figured Diana was hot so they could catch a little $ from her current RCA success.
the US order of Diana singles is as follows. because there are SO many and pretty much all of the later ones went unnoticed, it gets a bit confusing. also add in that the International releases of singles didn't match the US. I put RCA in red to separate the two
Upside Down June 80
I'm coming out Aug 80
it's my turn sept 80
One More Chance Feb 81
crying my heart May 81
endless love june 81
Why do fools sept 81
My old piano nov 81
Mirror mirror Dec 81
Work that body March 82
Old Flame July 82
Muscles Sept 82
Motown should have returned its attention straight back to the diana album the moment “IMT” started to lose ground ground. The To Love Again album, complete with lacklustre singles brought the party to a sudden halt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
see i'm not so sure about that. they did do that with Piano and it went nowhere. Tenderness was released internationally in Dec 81 and did poorly. only to #73 in the UK
now perhaps if they focused on the chic tracks instead of the Michael Masser ones, maybe they would have had some traction. But they were a year old by then. One More Chance was on the "new" lp at the time. and since IMT did so well, it's natural they would have tried their luck again.
by the time Endless Love ran it's course, Diana's new RCA stuff was already on the market. and regardless of people's opinion as to the quality of the content on Fools, it was certainly the more recent. to expect another hit from an album that was at that point 18 months old would have been unrealistic
it's a shame that motown couldn't get the single for Dreaming Of You as a follow up duet with Lionel. if they had released that, there's a very good chance IMO it would have charted well. even against the new RCA stuff
Motown tried to release Dreaming of you, but it proved to be too expensive to license.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I'm sure Berry would have paid up had Diana remained with Motown, but perhaps he didn't want it to go up against her rca material, or if we wish to be cynical maybe he thought why the hell should i help her to enjoy another hit record. Or perhaps Lionel had something to do with it. He was about to launch his own solo career. Maybe he did not wish to be too closely associated with Diana?
I reckon DOU would have eased into the top 10, maybe even top 3. Who knows?
Dreaming has such a solid early 80s pop sound to it. While i would never describe it as groundbreaking, it would have been thoroughly enjoyed by the public and [[given what superstars they both were at the time), done EXTREMELY well. their vocals sound lovely together and it isn't the syrupy confection of Endless Love. I really love the little speaking banter they do in the middle. sounds so alive and fun - even if they were recorded separately lol as i assume they were.
i didn't realize it was so expensive. i completely understand if that was the issue. Sure it would have been a big hit for motown but at what cost? and it would have also helped continue the Diana craze at the time.
as for Lionel, i would think he was eager to get onto his own solo material by this point. sort of a "been there done that" POV.
There's certainly a positive reaction among everyone here to Dreaming Of You and because of this and on the back of Endless Love I'm sure it would have gone top 10 in the US.
I've given it another few listens and have to be the odd one out - it's nothing more than "an average Diana album track" to me - the melody is nowhwere near strong enough.
I couldn't see it as being other than at best a medium sized hit in the UK.
I think had Motown released “Have Fun” at the beginning of 81 it could have gone top 5. Late 81 was to late. Remember “IMT” was not as successful as the previous singles from the diana album, and that despite buckets of airplay..Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
It would have been kudos for BG had “WDFFIL” been a Luke warm success, with Motown still scoring big from the diana set.
i think IMT did quite well in the US. was it as massive as Upside Down? no. but it charted very well. the 3 songs [[Upside, Come, Turn) all were in the top 40 for 1 or 2 weeks at the same time. So It's My Turn definitely ended the year on a strong note for her. I'm in the middle of doing it's chart data and have completed through 12/31/80. it hasn't peaked just yet. probably by mid Jan is when it'll have gone as high as it will. then if you assume the typical week or two post peak where it still charts but is on the decline, i'd guess its total run on the Hot 100 will be 14 weeks or so.
i know some of us read Randy's story about IMT in Call Her Miss Ross, about the sales figures being less than 500K. I'm skeptical about ALL sales data from ALL sources because motown always seems so sketchy about what they release. None of that sales data from pretty much any of Diana's material was reused for the later DR bio. was that the real final sales? was it as of year end? was it what? there's just too many questions so i tend to simply overlook those. Unless Randy can provide documentation that he had access to the official motown sales logs and accounting records.
Sup - I believe the royalty singles spread sheet RTJ gained access to for CHMR is accurate - some great songs just didnt manifest in huge sales...thou at the same time I wouldnt trust any Motown figures on DR or Supremes albums sales that is all smoke and mirrors and murky waters..Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
my primary question about those sales figures is that I don't believe they were cited. Sales as of what date? ever? i get it that some songs that chart well might not sell millions. and i completely buy the idea that motown's PR dept made up their own sales data lol.
the story of IMT and it's sales data was used in conjunction with his content about how Diana was seriously beginning to think about leaving motown. I believe her contract expired in Oct or Nov 80. but IMT didn't even peak on the charts until into Jan 81. and it continued to sell well into the next many months.
i know i'm getting into the weeds here. and i don't think Randy was trying to lie or mislead. just my opinion that most of the sales data we've all seen here and on sites and in books is sceptical
Motown sales are shrouded in a veil of secrecy - many claims have been made, some of them obviously wildly inaccurate.
Everyone will have their own idea but I firmly believe that the figures [[presumably shelf life) J Randy Taraborrelli used in Call Her Miss Ross were accurate.
Yes they were removed for the second bio but that was surely for legal reasons.
Interesting he had Do You Kn0w Where You're Going To below 900k.
One record he didn't mention was Love Hangover - I would really love to know how many it sold.
Notably Joseph Murrells didn't include it in his book of global million sellers.
It sold over 120k in the UK and did quite well in some other territories so that raises questions about its US sales.