MARY WILSON says She Has To Work - Campaigns for Royalty Legislation for Streaming

It's hard to think of people like Mary, Darlene and Diana as "regular" people. As PNH pointed out, they ain't gotta worry about being homeless. Like I said when this thread started, this government we got is a craphole.

I'd be happy if Mary gets what she wants out of the streaming royalties but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it if she doesn't [[she's a survivor, she'll make a way, she always has). Just like I didn't lose sleep when she, Dionne and Patti were going to Congress talking about radio needed to pay 'em.

You see, I kind of agree. But I kind of disagree.

I AGREE she should get royalties. I AGREE that in the 70’s she had no reason to think the recording industry would become what it is in the 2010’s.

BUT.

She was still making bank for many, many years! In any other profession, she could have been putting money away for retirement. She said she was making 1,000,000/year in 2000!

I don’t understand why people who get rich and famous often don’t put money away for the future!

I don’t actually know that she didn’t put money away. But my family is all at retirement age and if any of them said to me “I can’t believe I have to work at my age” I would tell them they should have been saving before they got to this age!

The answer to that question is the vicious circle of........

The more you have, the more you want, the more you need

It happens in lots of professions

You don’t need a new truck every year but when you can’t have it after having it for years, it’s so heartbreaking [[much sarcasm there)

I remember her mentioning she made a million a year the year the controversy went down with the Supremes tour.

It must be an issue with tax returns. Taxes are way high in the west where Mary live at [[in Nevada, last I checked).

Livin high on the hog for what you make maybe

Mary should fight for what she is entitled, regardless of the fact that there are
a) people poorer than her in the world, or
b) how she chooses to spend her money.

These are both arguments the entitled elite in this country make to keep making everyone in this country poorer and take away what little they have. They point to the fact that a poor person has a cell phone and say “see they aren’t poor enough“ or they say “look at how they spend their money”. Both of these are elitist tropes used by the super wealthy to punish the poor. They change the terms of the debate from what people rightfully deserve [[a descent wage for a descent day’s work) to unqualified moral judgments about what people do with the little they have. It works like gang-busters for the Republican Party as they can easily find one thing [[in the 50s it was a refrigerator) and deflect the fact that wages haven’t risen considerably since the 1960s and that stable, viable employment is gone in this country for the poor and middle classes.

Mary should fight tooth and nail for every penny she earned and deserves. If more people thought like her, we’d have much better working conditions in this country. I’m not going to get into the trite, stupid Supremes fights on this thread. Go Mary!

Except no one is engaging in "stupid Supremes fights".

Don't even read like one?

Maybe we're looking at different threads.

You can say Mary needs to fight for royalties and also say that she's doing better than the average joe? That's not offensive, last I checked.

I see Mary is standing with her buddy, Rep. Darrell Issa who is a super millionaire. Maybe they should have coffee. LOL!!!!

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Originally Posted by midnightman

Except no one is engaging in "stupid Supremes fights".

Don't even read like one?

Maybe we're looking at different threads.

You can say Mary needs to fight for royalties and also say that she's doing better than the average joe? That's not offensive, last I checked.

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Read further down the thread. There’s definitely some Mary bashing going on.

The average joe wasn’t what I was referring to regarding the silly fights.

I had no idea there were no royalties for streamed tunes pre-1972. Not that streaming revenue is very high of course. But Mary is absolutely right that this needs changing.

BUT......it's depressingly common that stars often can't handle money. Someone mentioned Eddie Holland earlier, Marvin Gaye also had tax problems. Aretha's lack of trust meant that her financial affairs were often in a mess too. Dionne Warwick was ruined by a vast tax debt dating back to 1991.

Not being good with money doesn't have to be end of the world, IF you find good - and honest - advisers; people would get you to save and invest for the future, manage your tax, royalties and all that stuff. No easy thing to do when you're young and your wealth attracts all kind of hustlers.

It means having some business sense too - look at Curtis Mayfield's determination to own himself, having as much of the pie in his name as possible. He was well ahead of his time in that respect, but acquiring that sense isn't easy to do.

It sounds a bit moralistic but survival also means keeping some sort of control and discipline over your personal life, which again relates to finding close and trusted confidents - Marvin Gaye's affairs would have been much better without his ruinous coke addiction for example. The whole world of music is littered with the sad cases of flawed geniuses whose addiction cost them everything - think David Ruffin Gil Scott-Heron and Dinah Washington among so many others

I'm actually curious as to whether the faith of seriously religious artists [[Jean Terrell or the Staples Singers for example) gave them some protection that way.

Finally of course there is the horror of health bills. Here in England no-one worries about the cost of being ill or the idea that it might drive you bankrupt, [[although that might change when the economy collapses after Brexit).

This has been a really sad and important thread, and I hope I haven’t gone on for too long. I hope Mary's campaign has some success, but the problem at root is so much deeper because it is about human weaknesses.

I think with a lot of celebrities, people they hired to look after their money abused that trust.

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Originally Posted by thanxal

Read further down the thread. There’s definitely some Mary bashing going on.

The average joe wasn’t what I was referring to regarding the silly fights.

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Oh I know what "silly fights" you're referring to, I'm just choosing to ignore 'em.

I agree that these heritage artists should make what efforts they can. Generally not much changes very significantly.

They all seemed to start out thinking it would all be over quite quickly and they were young and didn’t take much care.

By the time they were 40, most of the money making part of their careers were on the downward slide and the industry started to rapidly change again and again.

And they never recovered financially.

It is one thing if you are the recognizable voice of Stevie Smokey Gladys or Martha - but very much harder if you were a Pip Miracle Vandella or Supreme

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Originally Posted by midnightman

Oh I know what "silly fights" you're referring to, I'm just choosing to ignore 'em.

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Agreed. That's why I'm not referencing the specific posts.

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Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Yes but Mary has a high overhead. She has to pay musicians, singers, costuming and whatever royalties on music performed, managers, a publicist. She doesn't walk away with much. Primarily known as a background singer, her bookings have dried up considerably because of her advanced years and a diminishing audience potential at any given venue.

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mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

You are right !!!
Truth be told ,,,,
If mary was really in a bad way, Diana would find a way to help her.

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as risky as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.

The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. I d believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

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I agree with MotownManiac. Mary's not in any financial danger. Not that I know of.

Anyone know why songs recorded before 1972 don't incur royalty payments? Why 1972? 46 years... seems random...?

I've had that same question for years. Like 1973-77 seems to be forgotten about? Unless there was some loophole in those years that allow artists to get control of the copyright of songs from those years?

Every time you hear of song royalties, they always either go "pre-1972" or "around and after 1978". Weird.

Thanks to the people here,that didn't fall for the negative drama,I'm not gonna say,who it was,we all know,who try'd it,but everyone ignored it lol,and for the record, Mary Wilson is doing just find.

"Well my job is done here on Capital Hill I am off to the Nikko Hotel in San Francisco
" - Superwoman aka Mary Wilson!

Attachment 13980

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Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

Anyone know why songs recorded before 1972 don't incur royalty payments? Why 1972? 46 years... seems random...?

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Why 1972? Because before 1972, there was no copyright for recordings played on radio. So performers never got paid for radio play, but the radio play promoted their records and the artists and labels made money from that. Writers of the songs did get paid by being members of ASCAP or BMI

But performers on the songs [[and possibly the labels too) were not compensated for radio play except for the fact that the play promoted sales.

The copyright law that now pays artists for radio play went into effect in 1972 but it was not retroactive. As Mary said, that was fine, because people heard the old songs and then went out and bought the music and she then got royalties. But who buys music today in any hard format? Not many. That is why Mary is fighting to make that law retroactive to pre-1972.

So today, with most music being heard via satellite radio and internet, the pre-1972 part of the law causes major implications. The absence of a performance right for pre-’72s means that there’s no guarantee that recording artists are going to get paid fairly for the use of their work when played.

I actually remember when this 1972 battle occurred for pay to artists for radio play. I’m not sure that I have all the facts right [[it is easy to check ), but at least you have a general idea about why 1972 was picked.

That's why this industry should've made it automatic once they decided that streaming would bring them profit. The pre-1972 copyright rule is in the Stone Ages.

It looks like Mary is going to get a lot of help to get this new legislation passed!

Garth Brooks, Tina Turner and Neil Young Join Call for CLASSICS Act Passage

https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...-list-congress

Here is information on the Bill sponsored by Darrell Issa:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ouse-bill/3301

Mary's speech may be carried on C-Span over the weekend.

Surprised there aren't more tbh... but Tina, Garth and Neil are HUGE names so maybe there's hope.

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Originally Posted by midnightman

Surprised there aren't more tbh... but Tina, Garth and Neil are HUGE names so maybe there's hope.

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Mary said in the article that so many just do not know that they are not getting paid. I think with her and the efforts of others, the word will spread. She was one of just a handful of people representing F.A.M.E. that went to something like 29 State Houses and convinced them to enact the Truth in Music act to prevent bogus groups from stealing and using the names of original groups and using them to do concerts. Give her a minute. LOL!!!!

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Originally Posted by marv2

Mary said in the article that so many just do not know that they are not getting paid. I think with her and the efforts of others, the word will spread. She was one of just a handful of people representing F.A.M.E. that went to something like 29 State Houses and convince them to enact the Truth in Music act to prevent bogus groups from stealing and using the names of original groups and using them to do concerts. Give her a minute. LOL!!!!

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Well I see this has definitely gotten a lot of people's attention LOL
I do hope more join in though. It's a growing movement too.
Patti's name is not in it though? :/
Usually when it comes to passing pro-artist royalty bills, she was one of the first ones to bring it up.

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Originally Posted by marv2

Mary's speech may be carried on C-Span over the weekend.

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Hey Marv! Thanks for posting the photo of Mary in Washington. Very photogenic lady. I have a feeling something positive will come out of this campaign. I was able to catch up on this thread when I docked the boat. Will catch up with you soon via email. I doubt Mary is in dire need of $$$. So pleased to read abt all the support from nearly all the posters.

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Originally Posted by detmotownguy

Hey Marv! Thanks for posting the photo of Mary in Washington. Very photogenic lady. I have a feeling something positive will come out of this campaign. I was able to catch up on this thread when I docked the boat. Will catch up with you soon via email. I doubt Mary is in dire need of $$$. So pleased to read abt all the support from nearly all the posters.

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You're welcome DET. If you're in Michigan......stay warm. I heard a snow storm may be coming. Mary Wilson knows a LOT of Congress people and others in D.C.

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

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Hi Maniac! I cant believe I called u maniac lol. Nice complimentary posting on Mary's efforts. wow I didn't hear about this potential upcoming Motown review. How cool! Keep us informed if u hear of any updates.

That pic of Mary outside Capitol Hill looked like she is confident this will pass.

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

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Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

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Originally Posted by marv2

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

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Was that Mary I saw sneaking on the city bus without paying her fare ?? LOL!!!!

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Originally Posted by milven

Why 1972? Because before 1972, there was no copyright for recordings played on radio. So performers never got paid for radio play, but the radio play promoted their records and the artists and labels made money from that. Writers of the songs did get paid by being members of ASCAP or BMI

But performers on the songs [[and possibly the labels too) were not compensated for radio play except for the fact that the play promoted sales.

The copyright law that now pays artists for radio play went into effect in 1972 but it was not retroactive. As Mary said, that was fine, because people heard the old songs and then went out and bought the music and she then got royalties. But who buys music today in any hard format? Not many. That is why Mary is fighting to make that law retroactive to pre-1972.

So today, with most music being heard via satellite radio and internet, the pre-1972 part of the law causes major implications. The absence of a performance right for pre-’72s means that there’s no guarantee that recording artists are going to get paid fairly for the use of their work when played.

I actually remember when this 1972 battle occurred for pay to artists for radio play. I’m not sure that I have all the facts right [[it is easy to check ), but at least you have a general idea about why 1972 was picked.

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Hey thanks milven for your response! Interesting.

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Originally Posted by marv2

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

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Well nobody is saying Mary is in trouble but Mary herself saying that she has to work for a living. And this ain't the first time Mary has made these comments. Lol!!

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Originally Posted by vgalindo

Well nobody is saying Mary is in trouble but Mary herself saying that she has to work for a living. And this ain't the first time Mary has made these comments. Lol!!

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Mary is a good woman. A great human being. She does not have to sing for her supper. Mary just had two more grandchildren added to her family last year bringing a grand total of 10 grandchildren and one great grandchild. She is determined to leave them a very nice inheritance.

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Originally Posted by marv2

Mary is a good woman. A great human being. She does not have to sing for her supper. Mary just had two more grandchildren added to her family last year bringing a grand total of 10 grandchildren and one great grandchild. She is determined to leave them a very nice inheritance.

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If that is the reason that she is still working in her seventies, then she should not say that she has to work. I know some people her age that have to work to keep a roof over their head. They lived too large when they were younger, borrowed equity from their homes, and are still payinng off mortgages to keep a roof over their head. I doubt that they choose to be baggers in a grocery supermarket, and of course they are too old to be in whatever profession that they were in, so there they are, bagging groceries.

At least Mary can work in her profession to make money for her grandchildren.

Also, telling children that they are going to get a very nice inheritance usually creates lazy children who become dependant on others. Better to teach children ambition, determination and survival, all skills that Mary now has.

This is not Mary bashing, just the way I feel about the subject in general, not Mary specifically.

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Originally Posted by milven

If that is the reason that she is still working in her seventies, then she should not say that she has to work. I know some people her age that have to work to keep a roof over their head. They lived too large when they were younger, borrowed equity from their homes, and are still payinng off mortgages to keep a roof over their head. I doubt that they choose to be baggers in a grocery supermarket, and of course they are too old to be in whatever profession that they were in, so there they are, bagging groceries.

At least Mary can work in her profession to make money for her grandchildren.

Also, telling children that they are going to get a very nice inheritance usually creates lazy children who become dependant on others. Better to teach children ambition, determination and survival, all skills that Mary now has.

This is not Mary bashing, just the way I feel about the subject in general, not Mary specifically.

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That is the reason and she will not change her mind about it!