https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7n5...SMv6d8bBlEPE-6
People would have been so disappointed her vocal was so pedestrian. This is hardly a shining moment for Flo.
I don't care for this song by Flo at all. I love the Little Anthony version so much.
I never thought that song fit Flo at all and she probably knew it lol
Her version doesn't sound like a song you could easily turn into a majestic live performance.
Little Anthony owns it. Case closed.
Flo's version is bland and boring. Little Anthonys version is the bomb. Period. IMO
I just played this and a bunch of other tracks for some friends and they think she’s the worst they’ve ever heard, but they all liked Ain’t That Good News - not enough to have any interest in hearing more. They are shocked such a terrible singer was a member of “my sainted Supremes” I explaied that she’s a terrific bg singer but a terrible vocalist.
I frequently say you can attend any church with music and hear amazing singers, but, as you say [[and I shall crib from now on...) they are not vocalists.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
I am amazed/saddened by the Florence bashing. She does a lovely job here.
I bought the Florence Ballard CD because i wanted to hear more of her recordings..i loved "Good News" didnt care much for "Buttered Popcorn" and jesus was i shocked by what i heard..it was total karaoke material and then i realised why she was a backing singer...i have never played that CD again and i never will...well i guess i would play it if ever i got asked what all the drama about Flo not being given more leads was about and i would say "this is why".
I loved FB but she would never have cut it as a front person or a solo artist.. she was just not show bizzy at all.. and especially for Motown artists, that was a very BIG must!! This CD which I bought was a total let down couldn't even make it through the whole thing..there's a reason why she wanted DR in the group
Flo didn’t want or not want Diana in the group. Milton Jenkins started the group and Flo mat Diana at their first group meeting. Flo was nothing more than the sibling of Milton’s sister who was asked to be in the group and bring anyone she thought would be good.
Milton Jenkins founded the group and picked the members he wanted. I honestly don't think we got the FULL story. We know how the Del-Phis [[later Martha and the Vandellas) formed and Martha wasn't even the leader. I have to think that Milton rehearsed or had auditioned every female singer that auditioned to be part of the group and he picked Flo, Mary and Diana because they were the best ones that auditioned. Only reason Betty McGlown got added, if I'm not mistaken, was because she was Paul Williams' girlfriend at the time.
Funny enough when they entered that talent contest in Ontario, you know what won them the contest: having Diana sing lead. Funny that.
That's not what happened. Milton didn't found the group! There was no group. He came around to see Maxine Ballard one day and he met Flo. He explained to her that he would love to have a sister group, a companion girl group to go along with the group he was currently managing called "The Primes". Milton wanted to put together a Revue type show. A package deal. He heard Florence sing that day and asked her if she knew any other girls that could sing and to put together a little group of her friends for him to manage. That's how it went. I not going to tell you again! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
P.S. he did not audition those girls separately for spots in the group. They all sang together for him at the same time. I keep forgetting you weren't even born when all of this went down and you've decided to believe misinformation from others that had ZERO knowledge of the situation or the people involved, so maybe I am wasting my time with you.
This audio clip proves Dreamgirls was pure fiction. Flo never ever had the voice of Jennifer Holliday or Jennifer Hudson. Never had it, and never could have had it.
I pity Diana having to live with the cruel myth that Florence had a voice like Holliday or Hudson and was denied stardom because of Diana. That myth makes for good drama, but falls flat when one listen's to Florence sing. She was average at best with amateur phrasing and lame interpretation. And, is was after years of being on stage with the greatest performer of that era. She had little innate talent and/or learned little from Diana and Berry.
Florence's vocals in general when she was singing low would've been great for jazz material. When she went high, she could go for operatic pop but singing operatic pop is even as heavy as some jazz material [[where some vocalists scat a lot). I'm just starting to figure out Flo's real sound in my ears...
I just played the live version of People at the Roostertail Lounge from the I Hear a Symphony deluxe edition on Spotify and I noticed the real problem: People didn't fit Flo at all, but Mary handled that song like a songbird! And when Diana sang that bit, it fit her too. But Flo seemed out of place [[though I did love the notes she hit before they sang on the bridge). That said, when all three sang together, you can hear the magic with those three together.
It would be great to have a discussion with Mary about how they recorded that song because I was always fascinated with how they used that song. Barbra Streisand had the definitive version of that song anyways lol
But I think that song and Goin' Out of My Head proves one point: Flo definitely didn't have a lead singer's voice or a voice that would make one a star on her own. Even Etta had more volume and gusto in her voice. Florence had a lot of talent though and when given the right song [[like My Heart or Love Ain't Love), she can soar.
As was said, Flo was one of the greatest background vocalists in history, but by herself, not so hot. Unfortunate because she had a really good voice and if worked at, it would've turned out beautiful. Look what it did for Diana and Mary.
YOU are the one with ZERO knowledge. In Maxine Powell's OWN words she stated that Milton told her he was doing well with The Primes and had decided to form a sister group - did she know anyone who sang? She told him about Flo and he asked if she knew anybody as they already had two girls that the boys knew. Mary confirmed this version in a recent interview. Flo didn't start nuttin'! YOU are all over Youtube telling folks that Mary invited Diana into the group. Which also ain't true. Shall I post these interviews?Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
I tell you people hate it when the Supremes myths continue to get exposed...
They cling on to that fantasy that somehow some kid just put a group together. No, they were a "sister group" to a group that had formed way down in Birmingham!
AFAIK, people who join sister groups to a male vocal group didn't form the group. Flo, Mary & Diana were put together. If even MARY says that now, then why are some folks still buying that okey-doke from 30 years before???
There are no "myths" only facts. It is clear that after over a half a century you guys still don't know the facts. I appreciate that you all still care about these ladies, but in a way feel a bit sorry that after all this time you don't know or understand their story.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
You better inform Mary about your facts - she remembers it quite differently and I can post it for you if you wish. Maxine Ballard, too. You called me a liar last week and when I posted proof that I was correct, you left the discussion. I hope you will stay around and comment this time.
a you are the only one on this forum who lies and carries myths,you are pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
And that's what I love about music, it's so subjective. I've had people comment on Flo's voice when I'm playing music and one of her leads happens to come on, particularly her Christmas leads as both "Silent Night" but especially "Oh Holy Night" are in constant rotation during the holidays for me, and most people enjoy her singing and quite a few of them actually prefer Flo's voice to Diana's. It is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
For my personal taste, I love Florence Ballard's voice. I love it as much as I love Diana Ross' and Jean Terrell's voices [[the two of whom are not only two of my favorite voices in the Supremes, but are on my list of all time favorite female vocalists period). As far as I'm concerned, you're no slouch in the vocal department when the likes of Martha Reeves, Marvin Gaye and Diana Ross herself praise your vocal skills.
Sadly I think in some cases it doesn't matter whether a person actually thinks Flo isn't a good singer or not. When they love Diana Ross as much as some folks do, Aretha Franklin and Gladys Knight could've sung behind Diana in the Supremes and some folks would claim that neither Aretha nor Gladys were much to speak about.
And thus follows another episode in the continuous story of My Supreme Is Better Than Your Supreme.
I don't think it much matters if Milton auditioned other girls or not. He found four that he apparently was enthused about. The Primes were not Milton's only group, but considering the talent that was Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks, Jenkins probably knew his stuff. I doubt if any girl would've been a member of the Primettes without having the goods. For all the bullshit some folks spew about Diana Ross not being that good of a singer, I think the record speaks for itself. A future Temptation heard her sing and thought she was good enough to be attached to his own group. Says a lot IMO. Diana was singing leads from the very beginning because Milton thought she was good enough to do it. The same with Mary. The girl could sing and that's why she was a member of the group. Flo is said to have done "most" of the leads at the time and I think that's because she was good and apparently a crowd pleaser, as the other girls were.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
As far as that contest they won, Mary said they sang "Night Time Is the Right Time", which Florence and Diana shared leads on. It is important to point out to the Diana haters that Mary specifically mentions that the place went crazy when Diana did her part. So much for her not being that good of a singer and nobody caring about her voice until she slept with the boss.:rolleyes:
"People didn't fit Flo..." I said this awhile back in another thread. The more I listen to Flo singing this song, the more I'm convinced it was the wrong song for her to sing. She shined on "Good News" and "It Makes No Difference Now" [[the album version), both of which were songs she could sink her teeth into. Mary's voice was definitely better suited to "People", after all, she was the one who in the beginning sang most of the ballads, and we know throughout her career the ballads are typically the songs Mary shines on the best. And Diana was better suited to "People" also. Her voice was built for the way the show tunes were arranged.
It's unfortunate that the Flo version of "These Boots" appears to ultimately be a myth, started by that famous of myth makers: Tony Turner. A song like "These Boots" Flo would've shined on. The Supremes' hits were created with Diana Ross in mind. I've always thought it unfair for people to judge Florence on songs that were structured and arranged for Diana Ross. Florence wasn't pulling off "Baby Love" or "I Hear a Symphony" no more than Diana Ross was pulling off "Aint That Good News" or "Oh Holy Night" [[the way it was arranged for Florence). The two hits that I do think Flo would've done justice to is "Itchin" and "You Keep Me Hangin On".
Unfortunately for Florence, she never received the attention Diana got. Comparing Diana's early leads to the hit stuff and you can definitely see the development of a great talent. Wish Florence had gotten the same attention, but that's how it goes sometime. Ultimately, Florence was a great enough singer that people at the time thought she was great, and people listening now think she was great.
She had the goods but didn't have the support.
But where did the myth start? As far as I can tell the official story has always been that the group was put together. Even on that Supremes interview promo from 1965 Diana says that they were put together by a group that is now the Temptations. [[Always thought it a little funky that Milton couldn't get that official recognition but marketing wise I understand it.) So when did it become something different?Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
Too bad audio or video doesn't exist for the Primettes. I would love to hear Flo and Diana tear up NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME, as well as Mary's THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND, another song I believe Mary wrote that they performed at that talent contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
When the girls appeared on the SWINGIN' TIME tribute, they briefly talked about the early days and songs they performed like THE TWIST and THERE GOES MY BABY. Flo mentioned NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME and said "Ha!" with a big smile on her face, as if it brought back great memories.
Here's something you may not have known. There were other women that sang back up with the Primettes on early Lupine Records releases that were considered members of the "Primettes". At least two of them still live in Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Probably when some Supremes fans thought Flo "started" the group and picked their name. Really, Berry Gordy suggested they changed their name and Janie Bradford had the name in her picks for the group members to use. When Diana said they would've been mistaken for a male vocal group, she wasn't lying since around that same time, there was a male vocal group [[from New York or Chicago, forget which) that were also called The Supremes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
So because Flo picked a name, that meant "she started the group". That would suggest the Primettes didn't happen and Flo just picked the girls in 1960 or '61, rather than being put together in '59.
They only recorded, what, two songs as the Primettes? [[Not counting the ones they recorded when Motown allowed them studio time prior to signing them as the Supremes) Yeah, that piece of history is little known. Much like the Beatles' early years between 1957 and '60 [[and even their early history before they began to be world famous in 1963).Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
You say some really silly stuff. Motown had no control over the Primettes from the time Florence Ballard started the group in 1959 until the time they were signed to Motown. Robert West and Lupine Records had some say. I'm glad we still have the Archives here when we had members that posted who were knowledgeable.......!
Even Etta?Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
Hyperbole like that does your argument no favours.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Tell me after hearing this song and think Flo can match that!Quote:
Originally Posted by smallworld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pc9BmXN998
Kinda offended you even said it like that, take your Flo glasses off lol
You were the one who typed:Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
The word "Even" has a negative connotation in the sentence above.Quote:
Flo definitely didn't have a lead singer's voice or a voice that would make one a star on her own. Even Etta had more volume and gusto in her voice.
To be honest, I've never bought Mary's recollection that the group performed multiple songs that day. It just seems unusual to me that an act would be allowed to perform multiple songs during a contest. I think her memory is so vivid regarding them performing "Night Time" because that's the only song they performed at the contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
But I agree about the audio and video for the Primettes. I keep hoping that someone will discover tucked away in a closet somewhere, an old reel to reel or something of a Primettes rehearsal or performance.
Having had time to think about it, I wonder if it stems from something Florence has said. In her account of the group's origin she mentions that Milton was interested in her voice and wanted to start a sister group to the Primes. Flo said she brought in Mary and Diana. I don't discount Flo's recollection but even if it happened the way Flo said it happened, she still didn't say she started the group. She gave that credit to Milton, which ultimately all three girls seemed to agree on. Milton Jenkins was the father of the Primettes.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
They recorded two songs of their own as the Primettes officially, though as you point out, the number might be a little more if you consider that they were still the Primettes when they first started recording for Motown. They also did background work as the Primettes both at Motown and Lupine.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
It's not hyperbole. As far as I'm concerned it's truth. The reality is that some fans feel the need to kick Flo and/or Mary in order to combat the idea that Diana Ross was somehow undeserving of her position. It's the same thing some Mary fans do, kicking Diana Ross in order to present the idea that Mary was a talented and capable vocalist. For some fans it's not enough to let Diana Ross and Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard's accomplishments speak for themselves. I've seen people knock Aretha and Gladys around the internet in order to uplift Diana, and that's with them having the legendary careers that they have had. Why would I believe it would be any different if Aretha and Gladys had actually been Supremes? Give me a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by smallworld
I don't know what she would have had to do to match Etta, but I think Florence singing this song could've tore it up. She wouldn't have been Etta singing it, she would have been Flo. In some moments in the song the two women sound a lot alike- we've discussed their similarities already- but Florence never could've done those "hollars" that Etta did. That wasn't in Flo's voice and it was a thing that made Etta, Etta.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightman
I sure do miss that woman. Etta is one of my absolute favorite vocalists ever. Good grief, she could sing!
^ Could she ever!!!
But yeah I get what you meant. I even admitted to it a few times that she definitely had an Etta like voice, just without Etta's hollers on it.