Baby It's Love from EIE - a discussion

ok - what are your thoughts? was recently re-listening to the Everything Is Everything lp. i know many fans find this lp to be a disappointment. especially after the amazing debut lp and the forthcoming Surrender.

and i agree much of the lp is more like late DRATS content than where DR was going with her A&S work

but this track is so unique and a gorgeous sound. IMO it could have be a new route to take diana. it smooth, sexy. the sax.

after the previous three EIE tracks which Hal produced [[My Place, ain't no sad song and EIE) this is such a total change. unlike anything else on the lp.

actually to my ears it sort of sounds like something off Touch Me In the Morning lp

thoughts?

This song always stuck out to me because of its Marvin Gaye vibe. When my mom first bought me this album when I was a kid, I saw Anna Gaye listed among the writers. When I played the record, with the sax and background vocals, it sounded like something that Marvin would have done. Now I wonder if it might be him on the background vocals as well.

The recent cd reissue updates the credits and lists Marvin among the writers as well. There's also a note that the overdubs for this track took place back to back with those for WHAT'S GOING ON. The sax player, Eli Fontaine, might have performed on both tracks.

I enjoy the song but as is often the case they seem to be forcing Diane to sing in a register which is higher than her natural voice but also, she pulls it off somehow.

I really like the "Everything is Everything" album. It may have been a rush release, though I believe Deke Richards had much to do with the album and his work is always worth hearing. I like it much better than both the first album and "Surrender." The "Diana Ross" album is good but a little too staid in my opinion; it feels like they were trying to make a Barbra Streisand album. And to me, "Surrender" has always been a rather pedestrian effort, too much modeled after the first album, especially with the title cut and Diane's version of "Reach Out."

I like "Everything" because it includes some great covers as well as original tunes. I'll always love "I'm Still Waiting," and think our UK friends were smarter than we were to make it a hit. I think her version of "Call Me" and "The Long and Winding Road" are also excellent. I find the album refreshing and interesting, and like that it didn't seem to follow the typical Motown formula.

I am sure I am the odd one out because I love everything on the album except the title track. The song EIE sounded too polished for me and too crossover.

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Originally Posted by captainjames

I am sure I am the odd one out because I love everything on the album except the title track. The song EIE sounded too polished for me and too crossover.

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I love this album too! And I agree with you about the title song.

One of my favorites from the EIE album for the obvious reason Marvin penned it.

Excellent song from an underrated album. I love Surrender more than Everything, but I love Everything more than the debut album. The first album is a bit on the boring side IMO, although there isn't a bad cut to be found on it. It really is a well done album. But the followup, Everything, IMO showcases the magic of Diana Ross. She really shines on most of the songs. The various cuts allow more of her vocal personality to be front and center, something that I feel is missing on the majority of songs on the first album.

"Baby It's Love" is a perfect example of the sex appeal of Diana's voice. Had Motown not bungled the release of the album and it's singles, I think "Baby" would've been a perfect single and a major hit if timed and promoted correctly. I recall when I first acquired this album in the late 90s, I wore "Baby It's Love" out.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

Excellent song from an underrated album. I love Surrender more than Everything, but I love Everything more than the debut album. The first album is a bit on the boring side IMO, although there isn't a bad cut to be found on it. It really is a well done album. But the followup, Everything, IMO showcases the magic of Diana Ross. She really shines on most of the songs. The various cuts allow more of her vocal personality to be front and center, something that I feel is missing on the majority of songs on the first album.

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As excellent as that first album is i kind of know what you mean. Had EIE been the first solo album and featured "ANMHE", would there have been a better chance of further hit singles from that album?. .........It's one to ponder.:confused:

i think the Marvin influence on the song is amazing too. certainly no one could do the songs on What's Going On except Mr Gaye himself. but this smooth soulful sound, the sax, is mesmerizing. It's a shame they didn't do more of it with her. Diana's voice is mellow and sexy as hell

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

As excellent as that first album is i kind of know what you mean. Had EIE been the first solo album and featured "ANMHE", would there have been a better chance of further hit singles from that album?. .........It's one to ponder.:confused:

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It would've been a killer debut album. Add "Mountain", switch a couple tunes [[you have to have "Reach Out and Touch" on it) and IMO it would've been a perfect debut for Diana Ross.

i think most of EIE is too "DRATS" in sound. sure she sounds great and the songs are fine enough. but in 1970 the entire world was anticipating what would DR do. the debut content provided by A&S was stunning. a totally new sound for DR, even aside from Mountain. there was a maturity. a new soulfulness yet still pop. Song like Reach Out, i wouldn't change the man, where there was darkness, dark side - all gave her a sound and image. and of course mountain was just beyond anything else

EIE would have been a nice and solid and predictable release. DR needed something more

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think most of EIE is too "DRATS" in sound. sure she sounds great and the songs are fine enough. but in 1970 the entire world was anticipating what would DR do. the debut content provided by A&S was stunning. a totally new sound for DR, even aside from Mountain. there was a maturity. a new soulfulness yet still pop. Song like Reach Out, i wouldn't change the man, where there was darkness, dark side - all gave her a sound and image. and of course mountain was just beyond anything else

EIE would have been a nice and solid and predictable release. DR needed something more

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My feelings about EIE have varied over years.

When I first got it, I really loved it. In fact, I can remember thinking that Diana left this particular sound behind once she did LADY and I wished she had done more of it. As the years passed, I became less enamored of the album and wondered why it was released when it was. But in recent years, I have come to embrace it again. Songs like MY PLACE, I'M STILL WAITING, and HOW ABOUT YOU are amongst my favorites.

For sure, I don't find it in the same class as the stunning solo debut and SURRENDER. But listening to DR [[1970) now, IMO, it really holds together as an album. But beyond the singles released, I don't hear another true hit. So I understand now why Berry had Deke and Hal start work on EIE. That said, I still don't understand why they released it and didn't pull a single for almost a year.

i think they started preparing it prior to Mountain's release and massive success. Reach Out And Touch barely reach top 20 and wasn't the huge debut they wanted. Gordy did not like Mountain and didn't want to release it. so in light of this, people may have been getting cold feet with the DR 70 album. I think you're right that the songs are lovely but perhaps not single material. maybe Something On My Mind but that would never have gone #1. So berry tells Deke to do something, i'm guessing knowing that it would be more pop oriented and would be less of a departure from the DRATS sound than the A&S material.

then mountain hits and is a huge success

and now we're approaching holiday 1970

sure they still have the DR70 album to push but by this time it's been out for months. they likely wanted a new album out to grab christmas sales. so since Deke had been working on this set anyway, they released it

but given A&S singles success with Mountain, they got the follow up 45

a bit convoluted but not totally random

Diana herself was very disappointed with EIE. She felt it was a rushed project in every way. I recall reading an interview with her in the early 70's where she said how unhappy she was with the way it turned out. I also think it is her weakest 70's album with the notable exception of Last Time I Saw Him. Unlike Diana70 and Surrender it comes across as disjointed and inconsistent. Most disappointing.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

It would've been a killer debut album. Add "Mountain", switch a couple tunes [[you have to have "Reach Out and Touch" on it) and IMO it would've been a perfect debut for Diana Ross.

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So what would have been your version of the killer album RanRan?.

I thought her debut album was wonderful, but a little dark. Surrender has too many iffy tracks for me. EIE, except for The title track that makes me cringe, I love it! And I think that, if berry Gordy weren’t so anal retentive about giving follow up singles to the producer that had the previous yet, that I’m still waiting should have been released October 15 as ain’t no mountain high enough begins To fall out of the top 10. I am still waiting would’ve been added across the board and debuted probably in the 50s And been a top 10 record in five or six weeks…… But waiting two months after AInt began its decline, lost the urgency That the follow up of a massive hit with naturally Garner.

when you think of mediocre records like I’m living in shame or in and out of love that stick their toes in the top 10 Soley because they followed a mega smash, you could imagine how well I’m still waiting would’ve done…… It could even have gone all the way. Hopefully however, The single release would not have been truncated so severely at the end like happened in October 1971…… After they were through with that album, they could’ve released remember me and A much improved surrender album With some hits on it.

i think ISW would not have been an appropriate follow up to Mountain. it's a pretty song but just too simple. after such a mega hit and such an over-the-top orgasmic ending like on Mountain, Waiting is just too thin

i think the follow up should have been Surrender, not Remember Me. Surrender has a similar hugeness but doesn't try to mimic Mountain [[like Reach out did). so it's similar enough yet different. Then the next song would be Remember Me. It definitely builds to high peaks but also is a bit more soft. Then the next single would be ISW. My place could have been next.

the Surrender lp would have followed the DR70 release as her 2nd solo lp. This would have given Deke a bit more time to flesh out more original content for EIE. Then it could have been released a album 3.

this would have held them over through 71 and then in 72 you have Lady.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think most of EIE is too "DRATS" in sound. sure she sounds great and the songs are fine enough. but in 1970 the entire world was anticipating what would DR do. the debut content provided by A&S was stunning. a totally new sound for DR, even aside from Mountain. there was a maturity. a new soulfulness yet still pop. Song like Reach Out, i wouldn't change the man, where there was darkness, dark side - all gave her a sound and image. and of course mountain was just beyond anything else

EIE would have been a nice and solid and predictable release. DR needed something more

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I think the tracks on EIE are something more than what was found on DR70, with "Mountain" being an obvious exception. DR70 has a very dark and laidback tone, not only with Diana's vocals but the actual tracks. I do think the sound was definitely more mature than most of what Diana had previously released with DRATS, but the album needed some spark and light. EIE is full of sparkling songs, bright in sound, but also allows Diana to sink her teeth into and show the magic of Diana Ross. There's very little magic on the debut album. I love a serious Diana cut, where she tells the story of the song using her impressive interpretation skills, such as "I Wouldn't Change the Man". But I also love a bubbly Diana cut where as she sings and you can imagine that giant smile of nothing but teeth brightening the studio during recording, like on "Doobe" or "My Place".

The Surrender album is a bit dark also, but Diana tore into those songs in such a way that it worked.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

So what would have been your version of the killer album RanRan?.

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Glad you asked Ollie.:o

My Place
Aint No Sad Song
I Wouldn't Change the Man
Baby It's Love
I'm Still Waiting
Doobe Doo Song

Reach Out and Touch
Now That There's You
Call Me
How About You
Close To You
Aint No Mountain High Enough

I would keep EIE the same, accept I would replace the two Beatles cuts and the title track. I like the song "Everything Is Everything" but I do think it was unnecessary. I added four cuts from the original debut. I wanted to add "Where There Was Darkness" but couldn't find the room.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I think the tracks on EIE are something more than what was found on DR70, with "Mountain" being an obvious exception. DR70 has a very dark and laidback tone, not only with Diana's vocals but the actual tracks. I do think the sound was definitely more mature than most of what Diana had previously released with DRATS, but the album needed some spark and light. EIE is full of sparkling songs, bright in sound, but also allows Diana to sink her teeth into and show the magic of Diana Ross. There's very little magic on the debut album. I love a serious Diana cut, where she tells the story of the song using her impressive interpretation skills, such as "I Wouldn't Change the Man". But I also love a bubbly Diana cut where as she sings and you can imagine that giant smile of nothing but teeth brightening the studio during recording, like on "Doobe" or "My Place".

The Surrender album is a bit dark also, but Diana tore into those songs in such a way that it worked.

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see i disagree - true there aren't a lot of traditional lite pop songs on DR70 but the song selection is powerful. You have uplifting inspirational songs. a couple pop-ish songs. dramatic ballads. the majesty of Mountain. a song or two hinting at jazz. within the Sups framework she was able to explore a wide range of styles and sounds. but people still always just thought of them as a glittery pop confection even though their song catalog proved otherwise. so for her debut they needed something powerful that covered the range of songs and showed her individual talent. EIE would have simply been written off as a DRATS-knock off

Reach out - inspirational and uplifting [[although not a huge fan of the waltz beat but it works better here than as a single)
now that there's you - a slow burn but with uplifting lyrics
you're all - just a gorgeous love song
These things - bright and probably most pop song here
mountain - no words or description necessary lol

something on my mind - after These things, this is prob the most pop sounding song. but it's also a slower burn and beat. not a waltz but definitely not Motown sound either
I wouldn't change - almost jazzy, she's singing just after the beat.
keep an eye - dark but pop/soul too. not 100% sure why they did it again after the DRATS version
where there was darkness - although dark is in title, this is a soft lovely ballad that builds into some gorgeous peaks
can't it wait - so sad and desparate
dark side - haunting

i do

I just played EIE. I’m convinced they blew it. I’m Still Waiting would have hit big, The next decision would have been whether to release Doobe or not…… I’m certain it would hit top 10, but I’m not certain that it would be good for her image overall. There’s really not another single strong enough, although if I’m still waiting went top three, you could probably squeeze a top 20 minor hit out of baby its love, I know sad song or even my place. With remember me already in the can and ready to go, it would’ve been a killer follow up to I’m still waiting and I’m sure whatever had a lot more adds if released on the heels of ISW. there’s nothing wrong with only having one single on an album if there’s nothing else that is certain to hit. Just like with new ways but love stays, there was not another hit record on there and they were smart Not to put out a song with mediocre potential. That being said, Nathan Jones, if it was ready, should’ve come out right after Stone love dropped… Not months later. Of course, we’ve beaten to death the error of waiting months to follow up touch me in the morning with the silly ditty last time I saw him when there were several choices to take from the album release on the heels of that number one record…… But anal retentive Gordy had to wait until there was another Michael Masser composition……

see i think motown blew the chance with Surrender. the released Remember Me in Dec 70 which did well [[i would have released the title track though) but then they didn't the lp until July 71. by that time the interest in RM was long gone. they tried releasing Reach Out but again with no album to support it. RM was on the Diana! soundtrack and show but by the time it aired and the lp came out, they were trying to make noise with Reach out. But the single mix of that wasn't as good as what eventually came out on the lp. plus it was just too copycat from Mountain. should have remained an lp track.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

Glad you asked Ollie.:o

My Place
Aint No Sad Song
I Wouldn't Change the Man
Baby It's Love
I'm Still Waiting
Doobe Doo Song

Reach Out and Touch
Now That There's You
Call Me
How About You
Close To You
Aint No Mountain High Enough

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Hmmm interesting. A lot more pop sounding. Mine would be...
Reach Out And Touch
These Things Will Keep Me Loving You
Wouldn't Change The Man
How About You
Mountain

I'm Still Waiting
Baby It's Love
Keep An Eye
Dark Side Of The World
Where There Was Darkness
Close to you