Half the audience left huh? Forgive me if i say you are talking out of your rear end yet again.
Printable View
WORKIN' OVERTIME was Ross's worst chart performing album of her entire solo career [[wiki).
I think the reasons were many [[mainly the music!!), but for starters what a pointless album title for what should have been one heralding an EPIC event , mainly Diana's grand return to her original hometown roots at Motown Records. Home again , at last!
I can easily think of many album titles that might celebrate this occasion , the last of which would be one called WORKIN' OVERTIME.:rolleyes::o
With Berry Gordy gone, the people at Motown under Jheryl Busby did not want Diana Ross! They did not want to promote her product, they did not want her diva attitude...they just wanted her gone! It took 10 years for them to drop her from the label and she gave them plenty of good reason by turning out consecutive bad albums and extremely low sales overall.
Stooping here but...…….
EXTREMELY low sales: Diana - 200,000. Mary - 2.
Quote:
Marv2:
With Berry Gordy gone, the people at Motown under Jheryl Busby did not want Diana Ross! They did not want to promote her product, they did not want her diva attitude...they just wanted her gone! It took 10 years for them to drop her from the label and she gave them plenty of good reason by turning out consecutive bad albums and extremely low sales overall.
Judging from this lackluster "comeback" album, I believe you Marv. There is nothing about it that says "Welcome Back Diana ! It's been ten lonely years without you! We love you, Motown"
None of her old buddies wanted to welcome her back? Stevie, Smokey, Temptations, Lionel--- not a bit of involvement from any of them upon her return project.
I would think this would have been Motown's headline news of the decade,"DIANA IS BACK!!", with a no holds celebratory project being self evident. Pull out all the stops, special guest appearances by classic Motown friends, songwriting credits from long time favorites, congratulatory liner notes from Berry Gordy himself [[ who urged Diana to resign), pictures with plenty of hugging ...etc. etc. etc.
Any of what you described would have been complete "Fantasy Island". Let's not forget, Diana Ross was never that popular internally with the old Motown personnel. The new regime went from ignoring her to outright despising her! Some were young people just starting out with the old Motown and they remembered how poorly she treated them and just about eveyone else. The only thing I remember as far as the media went was a brief clip on like the entertainment minute on CNN of Ross returning to Motown as an artists and investor of some sort. Nothing else. A friend of mine that worked in Marketing and Promotion at Motown came to me one day and she asked me what should she do with Ross' "Force Behind the Power" album. This was in 1991 and I didn't have a clue for her, other than telling her the artwork sucked. LOL!
They tried to make a public appearance of unity of the old Motown gang in 1995 when the first Motown Cafe opened in NYC. There was plenty of press and plenty of stars but it all seemed very stilted. As far as Diana Ross value as a recording artist, no one cared or took her seriously upon her return to Motown. The product she issued bore that out.
Agreed. The USA is not generally known for it's loyalty to older artists. In europe audiences embraced these the new songs, much as they did her following return to motown albums. One only has to look at footage from Diana's World Tour 89 for proof of this. Here in the UK the album was 23 on the charts and sold well throughout europe.
Likely to the dismay of others, you continue to be right!, Marv! It's almost like Diana snuck in through the back door at Motown. I suppose to a degree it was like eating crow for her, two steps back, and a move that indeed would not play out to advance her career.
Speaking of Ebony Magazine , returning to Motown , should've been a great avenue for some magazine coverage, interviews, some covers like Ebony. Pump this event up !!! Work it overtime! For some reason the celebratory atmosphere wasn't there , there apparently wasn't the belief or confidence in her within the core of Motown as you state.
She certainly didn't need to resign with Motown in order to hook up with Nile Rodgers again. He would've been approachable anywhere along the way previously , he's not specifically in a relationship with Motown. In fact isn't Diana' 1980 album his only connection with them? Was he even considered "hot" by the end of the eighties?
Seems like an effort of aimless desperation, their reunification , Diana and Nile's. They weren't really friends at this point were they, their issues resolved? ,. Did Motown make him an offer he couldn't refuse?
They were not friends! Nile was heavily on Coke by that time. [[He said so himself). If you paid him, he would have produced Miss Piggy even! His working with Diane was all her idea and no one at Motown could care less.
Look at it this way. Berry Gordy and Motown made her a star. Promoted her at the expense of their other artists so that she could be in a position for a RCA to come knocking and offering her $20 million to sign with them. This caught Mr. Gordy and the company totally by surprise. No one actually believe she would leave the company, but when she did, they were beyond livid! Some secretly hated her guts. I know Mr. Gordy was very angry for a long time after that. He would only say that he was "disappointed" in the press.
So the question is, why would Diana Ross try to come back to a company that felt she had stabbed in the back just for money? I think she did it because no other company would sign her at that point and had Berry Gordy not pulled some strings, the new Motown would not have ever signed her. So she came back and no one even asked to work with her, let alone guide her career like Berry and Motown had done in the past. She came there with the same mindset she had at RCA and destroyed what was left of her own recording career. She did that!
Oh and regarding Ebony Magazine at that time? She had totally pissed off Mr. Johnson and his wife Eunice, who were still the principles at that time. She even made a bad impression on the staff photographers as well. Some have said that she did not "cooperate" when they did a 1981 cover story on her. The one where she pretended to not know whatever happened to Martha Reeves among others.
Nile and Diana are friends. Just today he posted the following:
“Diana Ross changed my life. She allowed me to compose, orchestrate and play after #discosucks made me persona non grata to most. Friends for life.”
That's almost a backhanded complement , "no one else would have us so we were left doing Diana Ross"..:p. It's not even accurate, Chic had not crashed , they were the hottest ticket of 1979... and DIANA just cemented their worth.
But I'm glad they're friends, they should be.
Rodgers' autobiography is one I have not read....need to ....I wonder if in it , he discusses the WORKIN' OVERTIME project. Would love to hear his perspective. Is it a proud work of his ? He strikes me as a fish out of water doing that music style, both of them for that matter.
aside from the snarkiness going on here, i do agree with the general statement that her return to motown failed to have much oomph or excitement around her initial release. maybe the label agreed with her and pretty much everyone else that the album wasn't a winner.
There have been lots of stories about her alienating people - some probably true, some probably fiction. But maybe the making of the WO album was stressful too for all involved and so that added to the atmosphere.
So is thisc also backhanded?
- https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...b1&oe=5D0B19CF
Nile Rodgers This is a song I wrote to thank her. It was great playing with her two nights ago. I'll be forever grateful and loaded with love for Diana and Bernard Edwards.
In 1980 - when 'diana' came out Chic were not at all hot. Their own album was a flop [[like the next one would be), the follow-up to Sister Sledge's great 'We Are Family' album had also flopped and the album by Sheila [[& B Devotion) was also not much of a success. All of these were released around the same time as Diana's and it was probably only her star power that helped it escape from the 'disco sucks' mentality of the time. It is true that Nile & Nard were probably spreading themselves a bit thin in 79/80.
One of the curious things back then was that with the dramas about Diana remixing the album to make it 'less Chic' there was a quote from her in the press saying 'I loved working with Bernard' [[and no mention of Nile) but obviously they patched up any differences by Working Overtime [[for better or for worse).
Unfortunately Nile's autobiography is very light on in regards to the musical detail of many of his most famous works, let alone WO.
we are on the same page with this. by 1980 Chic had crashed. But 1979 was a huge year for them . Their own platinum album hit #5 on the Billboard top 200 album chart , and Sister Sledge's platinum album reached #3 on that same chart that year. Hard enough heights for rock albums, never mind disco .
That's where they were at when Diana Ross signed on with them at the end of '79.
You're right, Chic's next album would tank when it came out a couple of months after DIANA. I wouldn't completely blame the anti-disco sentiments that existed that Rodgers mentions, the album stank then and still does to this day. The same for the follow-up Sister Sledge album which came out in 1980 a couple of months before DIANA. Were they as good as their predecessors , their fans would've forced their success on a reluctant industry [[ just as DIANA did).
Looking over all of this now, Nile' s gratitude for the Diana Ross project is spot on. How it shone the way it did , seems to have beaten the odds and maybe it drained the last spurt of Niles and Rodgers' creativity. Ross herself likely deserves a good amount of credit as it was her input about what she wanted the material to express that helped give them direction.
Certainly the success of the DIANA album paved the way for the duo to further work with known acts like Carly Simon and Debbie Harry , for whom , unfortunately , they provided more crap, before finding their way to more successful results with others.
So to be sure , Nile Rodgers , now looking back at the total picture, has every reason to consider Diana Ross one of his most valuable friends.
I wonder how that Sheila & B. Devotion project came to be?? They were European and only popular there. How did they team up?
Sorry to learn the Rodger's auto is thin on details. I was afraid of that . So many of them are. Wish these people would learn from the Mary Wilson/Raynoma Gordy handbook of book writing, if you're going to write about it, REALLY do it , other wise why waste our time.
I quite liked that album [[particularly '26' and 'I Loved You More') but there weren't any obvious hits on it.
I think it was just that her record company got in touch with Nile/Nard after she'd had a hit with a disco version of 'Singin in the Rain' as they were wanting a hit album [[which didn't quite work out even though 'Spacer' was a reasonable success though not in the US).
It makes sense that Sheila , [[she used to be Sheila B), being eager to break the US market, would seek out what appeared to be the hottest production team in the US. SPACER is quality lively Chic stuff but to me the somber sounding vocal delivery is at odds with the composition. It looks like after this effort Sheila lost her devotion to having a singing career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Wdchhd9nc
I wonder if this tune was offered to Diana Ross for her LP, but she declined it. Does the vocalizing here seem to sort of mirror her? Reminds me somewhat of MY OLD PIANO.
Fact remains "WO" sold rings around/multiples of/exponentially better/hella more than anything any other Supreme issued as a solo. In fact, probably more than all of them put together over the entire course of their careers. The advantage the out-of-the-box, first-solo-project scud-missile bomb debuts have is that there is never any success in the first place to come down from.
I find it odd that while discussing Working Overtime the topic of sales, or lack thereof, of the other Supreme's is brought up. Why is that necessary in this thread?
We ALL know that Diana has the career, the hits, the movies and is still selling out concerts; that is not new information. I find it disconcerting to drag the other Supremes "down" in this thread. It's mean-spirited and so unnecessary.
Thanks, PNH. After I posted it I had second thoughts as I didn't want to be perceived as giving you a load of b.s. I appreciated your response. Kind regards to you, too.
WO it seems is a bit like marmite, you either love it or hate it. I for one have always loved it.
Perhaps Diana could have played it safe and made a more pop orientated album to mark her return to the company. It probably would have been the sensible thing to do. As it was she took a risk, put the sequin frocks in storage and went for it.
IMO the album is fresh and innovative, featuring some really inspiring songs and sensitive ballads. My only critique being the vocals are a little to high on a couple of the songs.
For fans who hate the album, i find it just as perplexing how anyone can enjoy the soulless and quite anaemic WDFFIL project..... Horses for courses as we say in the UK.
Maybe the album would have been better received if 1) the songs were recut in a slightly lower key and 2) there was a big more variety on the album. she dove into the deep end with this sound and perhaps wading in from the shallow end would have been more prudent. Add in a few more classic pop/r&b tunes and cut some of the harsher material. But she'd still have some up to date and modern tracks like Bottom Like, Say We Can, etc.
I agree with you that WDFFIL was a dull and bland affair. It was by far her worst effort since Last Time i Saw Him., but i would even have to give those two turkeys the nod over Workin Overtime. Maybe i shall have to re-evaluate it when [[if) the proposed 2 disc expanded edition ever sees the light of day, along with the far superior 3 Motown albums that followed it. I am still hopeful they will appear this year.
But what WDFFIL had going for it , to make it seem like an event , was a ton of hype put behind it from RCA. How else are you going to make its lead single of which the album is titled after , a 50's tune remake --- seem like something we've all been waiting for from Diana Ross.
That's what baffles me about WORKIN' OVERTIME , Diana Ross is finally back on Motown , and this is it?? This is the result? And even if no one thinks this is going to be a home run , you fake it!! Like RCA, you work what you got ! How often do you get to welcome Diana Ross back? This is a one shot opportunity , you gotta milk it.
I can only conclude that the confidence in this work was that low , it really wasn't worth pumping effort into and would likely be an embarrassment. Much ado about nothing.
The collaboration with Nile Rodgers alone should've been a winning angle. Together again at last. But Motown only subtlety references the Chic connection by using the same "diana" logo on the cover . I'm guessing they didn't want to over promise by promoting this renewed association.
There is nothing "Chic" sounding about the LP. Nile does not pick up and play his trademark guitar once. The entire LP's music is just artificial programming , great if you like that sound , but not Chic sounding , and with plenty of current artists of the day pumping that stuff out, ... which of Diana's fans were hoping to hear it from her ? Apparently not many.
BTW it's not a dig at Diana Ross to say WORKIN' OVERTIME was her worst chart performing album, when you release 20 albums and rank them , one of them has to be at the bottom. It's just astonishing to me that it would turn out to be this one , her first Motown album in twenty years.
another angle that we've not discussed is Motown as a label. by the late 80s, motown was NOT the solid and innovative label it once was. frankly it had never rebounded from their peak years in the 60s. if one was looking to find hot and new hip hop and new jack swing music, motown would not have been an initial label you'd have looked to. So perhaps some blame falls on them too. perhaps they were desperate as a label to crack this category and hoped that a mega name like DIANA ROSS would help facilitate that.
also Diana didn't initially sign with Motown. after she left RCA she signed with MCA and released If We Hold On Together on that label. MCA then bought motown and "they" decided to place diana back on her home label. not sure exactly who all decided or pushed for this - did diana ask for it once the sale was finalized? did the MCA execs want to do it? did the motown team request it?
In my poking around , I was surprised to discover this, and was about to get into it as well. Diana Ross signed with MCA and was flabbergasted that about that time MCA then bought out Motown and wanted to transition her to that label! The way I read it, if Diana had any idea it was headed this way she never would've signed with MCA.
I guess Berry talked her into going along with it, got some perks added to the deal, a partial ownership for her.
So maybe WORKIN' OVERTIME was an MCA project that then wound up being on Motown?? This to me would explain the decision to approach her first Motown album this way, with this kind of content . Because even if Motown was no longer the label it once was , they still had a strong roster of acts from Diana's era, it [[to me) defies logic that you wouldn't tap into that to create a welcome back to the family story line.
One thing that is clear , there was little fanfare centered around Diana's return , so it doesn't seem like a thrill abounded from any angle.
What also still puzzles me is why choose Nile Rodgers and then not really use him . Looks like all the programming of the synths were done by Greg Smith and Nile mostly hung around.
Here're some rather unconvincing comments imo about this project from Diana:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LOYUYPAvs4