Just wanna hear some love about the lovely Miss Birdsong. If any of you have any nice anecdotes to tell or feelings to share I would like to hear them.
Just wanna hear some love about the lovely Miss Birdsong. If any of you have any nice anecdotes to tell or feelings to share I would like to hear them.
I always thought Cindy was a stunningly beautiful woman, but that beauty is a sort of "quiet" beauty. Hers is a more dignified sort of beauty where you discover you've been seeing her for some time, and then it's almost as if out of nowhere, you suddenly discover "Damn! This woman is HOT!" I've always thought of Miss Birdsong as one of the all-time class acts. She had a job to do and she just went in and did it. If she had any gripes, she just didn't put it out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppelia-Birdsong
Twice I was fortunate enough to meet Cindy. Both times she was charming and very sweet. The first time we met in 1968 I got very lucky and it was one-on-one. We talked for about twenty minutes in a hotel lobby where the group was getting checked in. Mary instantly got her room key and disappeared. Diane left to get something to eat. Cindy was being largely ignored and seemed lost in the shuffle of road people and luggage so we just sat down and talked about this and that. I had been a big fan of Florence and was resentful of someone just stepping in and assuming a position in the group by virtue of a dismissal, so I wasn't prepared to like her. She had been with the group only for about a year at that point.
She was most gracious and unpretentious. Granted, vocally she couldn't approach Florence, and her stage presence wasn't at all the same, as she lacked the sassiness I so loved with Flo, but she was given big shoes to fill and no doubt was under orders to "know her place." When delivering Flo's lines, they always fell flat and she shouldn't have been made to do that. She was a very different kind of person after all. It was a tough, tough job and she handled it professionally. Being kind and friendly to a seventeen-year-old fan certainly wasn't in her job description. Even though the act was never the same, I was in her camp from that point on.
Yes! Anytime!
PS.. Do yourself a favour and listen to her gorgeous spoken part on The Wisdom Of Time.
I met Cindy at the Waldorf when the Supremes were appearing there. She was just lovely and we talked about No Matter What Sign you Are and her days in Philly recording with the Bluebelles. Totally down to earth.
what did she say about No Matter What Sign? remember any of the conversation?
I agree that during the DRATS years she was little more than a stand-in. fulfilling the necessary role of 3rd member
with the Jean era, I feel that changed considerably. Especially as they evolved their sounds and look with their first few releases - this concept of a world peace and higher ideal about mankind. her sweetness and warmth played well into that and allowed her to establish her own personality and persona. Mary sort of evolved into the bubbly girl and Jean was the proud, stately black woman. made for a great combo of the three
I have never met Cindy but I have always loved her in the Supremes. I didn't become a fan of the group until 1970 because I was too young before that. Cindy along with Mary seemed to provide a similar kind of beauty and elegance and they blended so well vocally and visually. Cindy always projected a kindness,warmth and sweetness. Looking on You Tube now I see where she is resembling Florence visually but Cindy seemed to take on the glamor more easily. I think all of the former members from Diana Ross & Mary Wilson to Jean Terrell and Scherrie Payne have nothing but good things to say about her and fond memories. Basically, Cindy is loved by the fan base for being Cindy. A beauty. A talent. A Supreme.
Even watching clips of her with the Bluebells, Cindy had this type of posturing that exhibited special grace and glamour.
I told Cindy I liked No Matter What Sign You Are as she sang more on it!lol. She smiled and I think she said thank you!
Beauty and class=cindy birdsong!
Quite true.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobucats
To wit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsTQtGSIUgk
I've always thought Cindy Birdsong [[as well as Florence Ballard) would have been a great comedic actress. Cindy always got a chuckle out of me in those little skits from the Flip Wilson Show.
‘I had a very similar experience. I HATED Flo being replaced and hated Cindy for being there. I dint meet her until JMC but she was just so sweet, kind, fun, generous and unassuming - no ego at all. She still, as of our last visit, had no ego. All of the girls I’ve met were great, but Cindy, by far, was the most gentle soul of the lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
I dont think she was ever ever given orders to ‘know her place” as she was welcomed with open arms and everyone tried to make the major adjustment easy for her. She adapted to her place in the group and became well aware of the tension between Diana and Mary. She really was a sweetheart and although I’m no longer in touch with her, my third hand [[but reliable sources) tell me she’s comfortable and has good and not-so-good days.
I agree with you that no one could fill Flo’s shoes and those who did not see her, might not understand why. The group never recovered from losing Flo and then, after Ross left, there was nothing left but three good singers with no star power. They should’ve done everything possible to try to get Florence back in the group after Cindy left the first time. The whole story might’ve been different.
Cindy and Mary were told, after Cindy complained to Diana, that only Diana was to speak in interviews. Cindy, Mary and Jean obviously had star power per their 70s success.
Now it seems that Mary Wilson is doing an interview every week or so. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
According to Cindy she was basically told to "know her place", i.e. behind Diana Ross. Cindy's legend has it that during an interview Diana attempted to answer a question that was either directed at Cindy or about Cindy. Cindy, being the grown woman that she is, leaned over and told Diana to shut the hell and speak only when she's spoken to. Just kidding. But she did lean over and remind Diana that she was capable of answering her own questions. Later Cindy was told by a Motown power [[Gordy? Can't remember) that Diana was the spokeswoman and would answer all the questions. If that aint being told to "play your position", I don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
But I do think everyone tried to make Cindy's adjustment as smooth as possible, not simply out of concern for Cindy, but the easier her adjustment, the smoother the DRATS plans get implemented. Cindy ultimately ended up being the perfect replacement for Florence, not because of any physical resemblance, certainly not any vocal resemblance, not even glamour or any of that stuff. Cindy was perfect because her easy going nature allowed her to step into, what had been with Florence at the end, a tumultuous situation, and bring some calm stability to the group. There are other women who could've been chosen to replace Flo who would have only made the situation worse...if that were possible.
Cindy always comes across as a real sweetheart. And as someone mentioned already, all of the other Supremes seem to have nothing but nice things to say about her. I can't recall ever reading a bad word about Cindy Birdsong. That says a lot. I really hope whatever is ailing her gets defeated.
There have been things said by Labelle members that were not nice. I like Cindy and don’t have anything negative to say about her. With that said, she has made questionable career decisions, but they are never really discussed.
I think you’re right as far as her fitting in like almost no one else could. She seemed to be able to go with the flow although who really knows for sure. She did speak up when Diana was being difficult about background vocals already recorded saying they were singing too loud and about answering her own interview questions. At one time she said it got to the point where she hated Diana . And apparently no one was very happy at the Farewell show. But she seemed forgiving and apparently was friendly with Diana after she left and Cindy helped take care of Mary after her tragic car crash.
I forgot about Labelle. I know they were pissed when Cindy left them for the competition, but how public were they with their anger?Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
Patti has been very public regarding Cindy. I think she recently forgave her after nearly 4 decades.
And being asked about or talking about Diana Ross in just about all of them. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Love Cindy! Flo was already gone by the time I became a fan...so I had no problem thinking CB was a bonafide member. I saw DMF on TV as a young child, and thought "big deal...3 girls with very short hair in nice dresses" Someone gave me The Happening 45, and I knew Stop! and Baby Love...still big deal. Then I saw Reflections TV clip and started paying more attention...more elegant! and then I got the hits 2 LP set, the current Love Child and I'm Gonna Make You Love Me 45's, and TCB put me over the top...instant and remaining die hard! Cindy and Mary are my fav pair of Supremes...Getting DR off as a solo meant more input visually and vocally...Loved Jean Terrell....Touch is my "desert island" Surpremes pick, followed by High Energy. When Cindy returned I was elated, and Scherrie was definitely upping the octane. I loved this grouping...I had high hopes for them. But over 2 years with no radio presence definitely hurt the group. I thought the '75 LP sounded fresh and new. And although for the most part lip-synched, loved the TV performances. Loved seeing Cindy be an even bigger part of everything....I wish she would have stayed. The blend and balance was perfect with MSC....and Cindy always looked tasteful, poised and her softness came through in everyway. Even with 3 pairs of eyelashes and glitz, she looked relaxed and unassumingly gorgeous. I love her!!!
Reportedly, although Cindy had subbed off and on for Florence, she apparently didn't alert Patti, Sarah and Nona when she signed for good with The Supremes. One account maintains that one evening before a Bluebelles show she simply didn't show up and couldn't be contacted, leaving the other members in a quandary, not knowing exactly what had happened, and they just had to go onstage as a trio as best they could under those circumstances, and that was that. She was probably under pressure from Gordy to get over there immediately so it seems she just left without a word. If this is true, it's understandable that the other gals would harbor some resentment. And yes, Patti eventually forgave her, but Nona reportedly remains bitter. [[No word on Sarah.) Even before Cindy started subbing for Flo, one story goes that when the two groups were on the same show Cindy visited The Supremes in the dressing room. Somehow they decided to doll her up like them, painted and eyelashed her, and even plopped one of their wigs on her head. When she emerged in that condition, it's said that Nona ripped the wig off her head and tossed it onto the floor! Drama...drama...Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
The other version of the story according to Patti was that one night they had a show to do and couldn't find Cindy. About a half hour before they were to go on stage, Cindy called them and told them that she has gone with the Supremes and was in Detroit. Cindy has said that it was her family that pressured her to take the job with the Supremes and that she would be stupid not to.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
All of that is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
That epilogue does make sense. I always found it incomprehensible that Cindy would just leave and say nothing at all. The fact that she left and said nothing until the eleventh hour tempers that [[just a bit), but she might have given the other gals a little more lead-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Still, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Cindy was the Bluebelles' second soprano behind Sarah, whose voice often could even overpower Patti's [[sometimes, to me, making the background vocals a bit distracting.) Listening to their recordings as a quartet and then as a trio, I can notice perhaps just a bit less "fullness" in the backgrounds, but not much, so their sound didn't change as it might have had Sarah or Nona taken off. Maybe Cindy felt that she was expendable enough that the group could function in a pinch as a trio [[and no doubt they had, from time to time, when she was spot-subbing for Florence) until such time that they should find another second soprano. [[Sundray leaps to mind, of course, and I believe someone once posted that she did fill that slot once or twice, but I might be mistaken on that.) It turned out they didn't need one.
That happened to many groups once they lost a member. It happened to the Supremes. They had been able to produce three part harmonies while the lead singer did her thing. After they went down to three members it was more difficult and on some early records they would have the lead jump back with the others to sing the harmonies. They would at times add a session singer back there like one of the Andantes. This back and forth went on all the way up to some recordings they did with Jean Terrell where she would sing the background with Mary and Cindy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
In those days, overdubs were less common, especially in the R&B world, so adding the lead to the backgrounds in the studio wasn't done much until the later sixties. Singers like Patti Page, Connie Francis, Mary Ford, Lesley Gore, Skeeter Davis, and many others in the pop and country arenas of course were using it extensively on recordings, but it seems like Motown instead would pad out the backgrounds more often with an Andante or two, rather than do overdubs. I suppose their equipment had not yet become that sophisticated. Spector used it with less than state-of-the-art equipment at Gold Star, but the sound became blurred, which he then used as the "Wall," to great success. [[Making lemonade out of lemons, I suppose.)Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Oh well, six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Bottom line: I don't think Labelle & company suffered much after Cindy took off.
To my knowledge Cindy subbed for Flo once before joining Supremes .. Hollywood Bowl show. Am I wrong? Patti and Nona were upset about how Cindy left...minimal if any communication and you can’t blame them after having been together for a number of years. Apparently when Patti wrote her book and talked to Cindy they made peace. Some people attribute Nona’s song Can I Go With You To Hollywood to the behavior of Cindy and or Elton John.
Many have opined that the lyrics were aimed directly at Cindy, but, considering the time lapse between when she departed The Bluebelles in 1967 and the time the song got onto vinyl in 1973, I tend to think Nona was probably expressing that sentiment toward anyone who would go off seeking fame and fortune, leaving others behind [[Cindy included, of course). Only Nona knows and I'm wagering she ain't talkin'. She's pretty intense.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
yeah I don't really fault either side with the Cindy exit situation. Obviously Sarah, Patti and Nona have every right to feel dissed. But at the same time cindy was approached about a situation that was 1) highly sensitive 2) highly secretive and 3) a MAJOR opportunity for her. odds are when Motown approached Cindy, they required that she handle the situation with the upmost discretion. if she had started explaining things to her friends and groupmates, word would have spread like wildfire.
so the interesting question is - what would have happened had Flo cleaned up her act and stayed with the sups? I know Ralph closed down another thread for being silly on this topic. not looking to rehash all of the what-ifs regarding flo becoming lead, etc. But with Cindy doing the Hollywood Bowl show and then NOT going on to be a Supreme, would she have remained in the Bluebelles? or would they have been too hurt and upset by her subbing for Flo
I don't think the Bluebelles would have taken Cindy back. She was offered a great opportunity, but in taking it, she really did betray her group mates. There was no turning back.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I think in going outside of the company to get a replacement, Berry basically knew that Flo was on her way out and had to have given Cindy some sort of guarantee of future employment because there was no way Cindy could have gone back to the Bluebelles.
Cindy subbing once for Flo I don’t think would’ve been a huge deal for Bluebelles. There’s a Supremes interview where Diana goes on and on about Flo kind of taking a leave and Cindy wonderful but talking about Flo as if she’s still in The group and how each of them could do their own thing in future...Mary, Cindy and Flo and her self and still be in the Supremes. I’m wondering if they still were testing the waters as to how public would respond to No Flo or if It was still possible she could return and Cindy could be like a permanent sub.
I think their “success” states just the opposite as they did nothing but decline in popularity from the get-go. Album sales, regardless of content or hits, slid dramatically and their personal appearances declined in size and quality of venue by 1971. Mary was beautiful but not enough charisma to cover for Jean and Cindy. Time magazine statedQuote:
Originally Posted by luke
“You have to memorize their wigs to remember which is which “
The drop in their sales and chart rankings wasn't unique to the Supremes though. Most of the top Motown acts [[aside from J5) had very inconsistent chart rankings in 71 and 72. Few of the lps released by Diana, Supremes, Temptations, Four Tops, Stevie did exceptionally well. Marvin really exploded with What's Going On. But none of the groups were consistently having high charting lpsQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
The girls held their own in '70 with two Top 10 singles. and Stoned Love sold a huge amount. Their chart performance was:
1964
3 #1
1965
3 #1
1 Top 40
1966
2 #1
2 Top Ten [[counting My world here since in peaked in 66)
1967
2 #1
2 Top Ten
1968
1 #1
1 Top Ten
2 Top 40
1969
1 #1
1 Top Ten
3 Top 40
1970
2 Top Ten
2 Top 40
Here's something controversial. Berry Gordy had made plans to put Diana Ross back in the group if her solo career did not take off like they hoped.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
interesting - had always wondered what they might have done had things not gone wellQuote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Diana said once she decided to leave the group, there was no going back.
Doesn't matter what she said, Mr. Gordy was the boss. The real boss!Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
you should count River Deep with 1971 since it did peak in Feb of 71Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan