Added to "Ed Sullivan Show" YouTube channel on June 20 --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXrP3wFfBrM
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Added to "Ed Sullivan Show" YouTube channel on June 20 --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXrP3wFfBrM
I remember this particular appearance got talked about a lot in school the next morning.
I always enjoyed this performance. Ahh, the days of superior talent...It wasn't long after this that David was gone I think?
One of the best things Motown finally did was to pair the two groups up.
I was so glad to see this one enhanced and I added it to my favorites before the video even started! I just love to watch Diana groove in this performance and her head movements, which are only accentuated by the large wig, which is among my overall favorite looks for Miss Ross.
Darin
David absolutely blows her away. The clip looks the same. Nothing enhanced.
Wasn’t David unhappy because songs arranged too high in Diana’s key?
Two of the Greatest Groups of All Time.
David just out a out SLAYED that Baby Baby I'm A-WHERE lyric!...and he looks almost as skinny as Diana.
Riveting. Like anyone with two ears and a brain wouldn’t have acknowledged the fact that David Ruffin had a more powerful, soulful voice than Diana Ross. Next week, please enlighten us with your infinite wisdom and let us know that Earth is larger than Mars.
I love David’s voice - not as much as Eddie [[I’m a falsetto kinda gal) but the misogynists around here give him a hall pass for his drug addiction and abusive behavior. Meanwhile, we’re still slamming Diana for getting a DUI twenty years ago. Look who’s still standing.
Again, I applaud Motown for putting these two groups together finally. I think both groups benefited regarding the fan base who surrounded the groups. Also, with everything that was going in the 60's they kind of knocked down doors with this.
I'm not sure, either, and at this point I don't really care. I loved seeing the two groups together [[and on Ed Sullivan!). I thought both Diana and David performed admirably in their own distinct and different styles. I think the vast majority of Ed Sullivan's TV audience didn't compare and contrast "styles". It was a national, far-reaching, diverse audience.
I agree. Most folk view such performances to be entertained although there are always going to be people who don't view or listen for musical entertainment, but to analyze and compare. Both Diana and David, indeed, were very good in their presentations. But it's human nature, I guess, that die hard fans look more into a situation than what is really there and suggest some 'conspiracy' theories as to what was really going on in the artists' minds at the time.
Agree. Having said, i would still like to know if the incident did happen. Its all part of Motown history after all.
If indeed it did, then i don’t really blame Diana at all. If I had the clout and a key change was going to make me sound a lot better i would probably have done the exact same thing. In a nice a way as possible....of course. :)
There was also their appearance on Mike Douglas together in 1966, but I think their performance together was more impromptu than an elaborately put together act, such as this Sullivan performance and the television specials. But I agree, absolutely fantastic decision.
I'll add to this, that another component of the gossip are the books that have been released over the last 35 or so years. As soon as a book publishes a story, some fans commit it to memory and repeat as though it's scripture. It would be interesting if we had the ability to remix history and see how differently a forum such as this plays out without information culled from gossipy books having been available.
Of course that probably still wouldn't stop certain people who's great aunt's neighbor was the postman for somebody else's cousin who's boyfriend's grandfather used to cut the hair of the nephew of a woman who once heard Diana Ross tell Mary Wilson to shut up.:rolleyes:
I find the story questionable. Why would Motown send it's two biggest acts onto one of the most popular shows of the time and allow either one to come across as inferior? Again, I think this is a JRT book story, as I can't recall seeing it documented anywhere else. It makes more sense that a key was found that complimented Diana and David, a key which was probably a little lower for her and a little higher for him. The fact that neither singer sounds any better or worse than they normally do squashes the conspiracy theory in my mind.
i'm not quite so sure about this legend either.
both the temps and four tops were recorded in keys that made the male lead vocalist [[both David and Levi are baritones) strain into the upper reaches of their range. the upper reaches of a baritone are right in line with an alto female singer.
When the musical arrangers pulled this medley together, odds are they would NOT have significantly changed the keys of each tune from the original. So these would be perfectly within Diana's range.
plus you REALLY think the musical arrangers at motown [[ie Maurice King) wouldn't have know what keys Diana sounds good in? and wouldn't said musical arranger frankly be more focused on Diana than any of the others, seeing as how that was the typical way of things at motown?
now i COULD imagine that there were various little prima donna moments from both Diana and David. probably Eddie too. they all had huge egos. so someone might not have liked one bit of staging and someone else felt another singer had too many more measure of song to sing, etc etc.
It does seem a little odd i agree. The only possible I can think of is if Diana sprung the key change out of the blue at the eleventh hour. Even if it were true, i personally don’t find it that big a deal. Does anyone know if any of the Temptations have ever mentioned it?.
the only indepth info on the Temps is Otis' book. at least that i'm aware of. of course you can pull out Deliver Us From Temptation by Miss Tonita Turner lolol. that's another source, so to speak lol
otis doesn't mention this at all in his book
This appearance aired on Easter or around Easter that year I recall.
Otis mentioned it in his book. He said during rehearsals everyone was giving their all and David's best was always fantastic. But Diana thought the key was too low for her. Maurice King told the Tempts not to worry because she was just pissed because "you guys are giving her hell." But Diana told Berry and Berry instructed Maurice to raise the key so that it was barely within David's range. In the meantime, Diana devoted hours to rehearsing and was in great form by showtime.
Now old memories aside, I think the medley as performed here is perfect. So if it had been done in a lower key, it probably wouldn't have sounded as good as it does. Both Diana and David shine.
This is not the Supremes and Temptations first television appearance together despite what Ed Sullivan said. They appeared together on The Mike Douglas Show together a few years earlier.
To my ears Eddie, David, and Diana are singing in the same keys they always did. They literally sound like they always did.
i flipped through the book looking for that and couldn't find it. But i certainly didn't read every page. i thought the Maurice King story was from the Tony Turner sagas and not Otis'. but could have them mixed up
i completely agree with your point that the medley sounded excellent! and none of the songs sound radically changed, in terms of key, from the originals.
Does anyone know what the groups sang on Mike Douglas? The pic of the groups together looks rather casual. The girls are in day clothes not matching gowns or outfits. Did they all interview together?
Just for reference, the story is on pp. 107–108 in the hardcover edition of Otis' book, released 1988. Otis had been talking about how Shelly Berger had recently began managing both the Supremes and the Tempts and one of the first things he did was team them for concert [[Forest Hills Stadium) and tv appearances. Then he tells the story of the Sullivan appearance. IMO, he didn't tell it with any bitterness. Just the way he saw it.
The next year, J. Randy put it in his book and made it a shade darker, although somewhat sad as well. Randy mentioned how during one rehearsal, Mary and Cindy and the Tempts gathered around a piano and sang old doo-wop standards to each other. In a corner, Diana sat alone observing, singing along and bopping her head to the beat, obviously wanting to join in but feeling left out.
Tony Turner also included it in his book on the Tempts and of course, put his patented spin on it
Re the Mike Douglas appearance, I think there was first some sort of dance demonstration, a photo of which is in the booklet for the Tempts' anthology. I could swear someone mentioned on here what the groups sang together but I can't find that info.