Regarding I Won't Last A Day Without You, it appears that both Paul Williams and Maureen McGovern released the song as a single in 1973. That may be the reason it was not considered for a single release by Ross.
Printable View
Regarding I Won't Last A Day Without You, it appears that both Paul Williams and Maureen McGovern released the song as a single in 1973. That may be the reason it was not considered for a single release by Ross.
Yeah, I know it's a music industry. Totally understand it for the Supremes and the 60's. Who knew how long it would last [[even for the Beatles)? And in 1970, apparently Berry Gordy was very anxious for Ross. But Lady Sings The Blues, the film and soundtrack, shot Ross into the stratosphere. More care and consideration should have been taken in presenting her from then on. But I'm just wanting to see Ross in the best light. I'm aware that all careers include mistakes, miscalculations and falls from grace. You're right, stars can't always be stellar. But it is nice to dream about!
Oh RanRan, really?! EIE?! Sleepin?! Just joshin'.
EIE is ok, not "really good". Sleepin' is like My Baby, My Own - a bit melodramatic, but a good performance. My humble opinions, of course.
I never really thought about Gordy focusing on the movies, at expense of the music. But I think you're right. I guess by the 70's, Motown and Gordy were overextended, financially and creatively.
What Gordy did with Liverpool, Country and Sam was two fold: capitalize, which meant more money via the connection, and diversify, which meant more money via the fact that the Supremes would never be just another run of the mill R&B group and thus would be booked into the venues they would eventually kick the doors in of which were better paying than the average pop venue. That is not the same issue I'm talking about as what was going on in the 70s with Diana Ross. While the Supremes did release these "odd" albums, no single was released from any of them, and the spirit existed that the Supremes would only release number one hit singles, even though it wasn't until "Heartaches" failed to be the 6th chart topper that Gordy actually put the edict in writing. Keeping the Supremes hitmaker status was important to Gordy and company, no matter how much time was being put into readying them for the Copa or Lincoln Center, or managing the inter and intra-group issues.
Diana Ross had an album released in November 1970 and there wasn't a single released from that album for six months or more. Meanwhile from December 1970 to July 1971 three singles are released from Surrender. That would've never happened during the Flo years when the music was important. Not to mention, once again, that there doesn't seem to be great consideration for Diana's single releases. From "Baby Love" thru "Reflections", great care was taken to see to it that only the "best" of the best songs were released as singles by the Supremes. While we all have our ideas about which album cuts [[and shelved cuts) would've made great hit singles, most of us would find it very difficult to argue against the release of any of the Supremes' singles from "Where" to "Reflections" because, love 'em or hate 'em, they were all such great songs. I hate "The Happening", but I can definitely understand why Motown thought it was worthy of release.
Diana Ross? I can maybe think of a handful of her singles that were easily hits, but most of those singles sound as though they wouldn't hold up compared to the biggies like "Mountain", "Touch Me" and "Hangover". Most of her singles just didn't hold up next to other songs hitting big at the time. The same cannot be said for the Supremes during the Flo years. Motown took the Supremes' musical career seriously. Motown put Diana Ross' musical career on the back burner, only paying some attention when they felt like it was absolutely necessary.
Ross 78. Need I say more?
That's why I like "Sleepin" [[and "My Baby, My Own"). She pulls off great performances on them. On "Sleepin" it really seems like she's in character. The same with "My Baby". I feel the soul of those cuts because of Diana. But I can understand why they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, hence the ridiculousness of releasing "Sleepin" as a single.
lolol Ran oh i don't disagree with you that there was definitely some odd decisions made to her solo career. completely agree that the timing of EIE and Surrender [[plus their corresponding singles) was completely whacked. And Ross 78 is a nightmare in my opinion. i still say that one was only partially done and someone was asleep on the job.
And yes, Berry absolutely wanted to make the Sups a crossover act. no doubt about it. i love that he had them venture into other genres. i just think those early ones were too rushed. look at the care that was lavished on R&H or even Funny Girl [[which they gave all of about 3 days to working on). the results are glorious. now imagine if they'd really given some time and effort to Liverpool or CW&P.
I think Liverpool was always going to be a bit of a lightweight project. let's be honest here. the british invasion was a massive cultural occurrence in 64. it just about obliterated all American groups from the pop charts. Except for our girls of course ;) so sure, it was meant to be a fun, sort of silly project. But the British groups covered many american r&b songs and motown songs and did so in a way that showed they cared about the music and material.
It might have been more appropriate to have finished A Tribute To The Girls. that music was ideal for the Sups and their 3-part harmony. it would have contained quite a few tunes that the current youth would have recognized and wanted. Always wondered what else was considered for this set. I know Around the World, Sincerely and Sandman were part of it. Maybe Fancy Passes, I Am Woman?
I agree Sup. The Liverpool sessions occurred over approximately a two day period in September and was in stores in October. The girls had only had two number one hits at that point, so this was all about taking advantage of their new found popularity, artistry be damned. I'm not a fan of a lot of the British Invasion stuff because the sound doesn't appeal to me, even when they cover R&B. The Liverpool album would've been so much better if Motown hadn't tried to recreate the sound of the British groups and instead had done all those same songs but in the style of Motown. I think the album may have sold better and would today be regarded as a classic.
The Country album was a two year old idea by the time the album was released. The first sessions were conducted in early 1963 and the rest of the songs were recorded in late 1964, some of the early 1963 songs were re-recorded in late 1964 too. Had the Supremes been a popular act for quite a few years at this point, I think trying to do what Ray Charles did could've worked. But having a group known for singing "baby" songs for roughly six months or so, I imagine people laughed when they saw the C&W album in record stores. There was no way that album had much more of a chance than The Supremes Sing and Perform Opera or Yodeling With the Supremes. Artistically it turned out very well. The harmonies are fantastic. But commercially, this was bound to fail.
Sam Cooke tribute was a brilliant idea, but ultimately lacked one of the things that was keeping the Supremes popular: the Funk Bros musicianship. Once again the track is a west coast track. Where a beautiful rendering of Sam's songs could've taken place between the Supremes and their obvious ability to bring to the table the same kind of attitude Sam brought, with his ability to bridge the gap, and the Funk Bros Motowning the tunes up, instead we get nice singing for sure, but a stale musician sound, IMO. Once again, if done right, this album probably would've sold more [[I think the drab album cover didn't help) and would today be considered a real classic.
As for Tribute to the Girls, I thought "Our Day Will Come" and "People" would've been considered for this. I wonder if after the last of the concept trilogy of 64/65, Gordy and company finally realized that if they were going to take the Supremes from Motown to the beyond, then they best give more attention to the next concept project? Certainly R&H was given quality attention. And while the full album never materialized, even the Disney cuts were high quality.
yeah i think the Sam Cooke tracks are a bit more sterile than the typical motown tracks of that era. I think it works overall though. i find the sound less jarring than the attempts at the syphonic sound with the album tracks in Symphony or some of the tracks on There's a Place. HDH did the MOR tunes on Symphony and then they also did the tracks for Broadway to Hollywood. talk about development!! listen to how much better produced things are by 66, 67. the sound is rich and balanced. you're not getting overpowering trumpets or strings/treble being mixed too high.
also compare Harvey's work on Sam Cooke to his later duet productions with Marvin and Tammie. again, great development.
I did dig a lot of the British Invasion but the Motown Sound in 1964 sounded so much better [[and has withstood the test of time so much better, too!). I agree, Motown should have given the album "the Detroit Sound", as it was known then, and released it later [[say in December), by which time they could have had a greater choice of songs.
Yes, I thought this was very odd even then. [[LOL, I'm on board for Yodeling With the Supremes). Again, more thought and care should have been taken, if they were going to even do CW&P. I think the Stevie Wonder tunes [[Baby Doll, Sunset) were good examples of "Detroit Goes to Nashville" and I really liked the Supremes' vocal interpretations of originals [[Funny, Makes No Difference Now, and especially Lazybones). Not crazy about the early 1963-64 cuts.Quote:
I imagine people laughed when they saw the C&W album in record stores. There was no way that album had much more of a chance thanThe Supremes Sing and Perform OperaorYodeling With the Supremes. Artistically it turned out very well. The harmonies are fantastic. But commercially, this was bound to fail.
Yeah, this really could have used the Funk Brothers. It could have really been a special tribute. Good News was definitely the best cut, and demonstrates that making it a real group effort [[a few leads by Florence & Mary) would have made it a classic Supremes album.Quote:
Sam Cooke tribute was a brilliant idea, but ultimately lacked one of the things that was keeping the Supremes popular: the Funk Bros musicianship. … A beautiful rendering of Sam's songs could've taken place between the Supremes and their obvious ability to bring to the table the same kind of attitude Sam brought, with his ability to bridge the gap.
re: Tribute to the Girls: This would have been so appropriate as a concept album in 1965 [[and far less jarring!). The British Invasion conquered many American pop genres [[except Motown, of course), leaving the Supremes, and to a lesser extent, Martha & the Vandellas and the Marvelettes, to hold up the Girl Groups banner.
I really liked the Symphony tracks. That album introduced me to "adult" songs I wouldn't have listened to, being so young and caught up with the Beatles, Beach Boys & Motown. I thought Stranger In Paradise, With A Song In My Heart, Without A Song were absolutely beautiful. Truth be told, I think this was when I began to think of Diana Ross as a singer, a voice integral to and yet apart from my favorite group, the Supremes. Mind you, I couldn't even imagine back then a Diana Ross & the Supremes. It would be as unthinkable as John Lennon & the Beatles or Brian Wilson & the Beach Boys.
oh i like the symphony lp too and certainly appreciate it's role in developing the girls'
broader appeal. I just think the productions would have been even more amazing had the producers had more experience. of course everything has it's time and place. and in late 65, it was an amazing next step in their career. i just don't think the productions hold up quite as well as the R&H tracks.
but i'm splitting hairs here
Believe it or not, I think Florence would've really shined on the yodeling album.:D
On C&W, Mary should've probably done the lead on "Nothing Can Change This Love". I think she may have shined on "You Send Me" also. Why they didn't record "Sentimental Reasons", I wonder? They include it in the Sam Cooke medley. Florence should've sung "A Change Is Gonna Come". That song was not right for Diana at all. And while I stand by my opinion that the album needed the Funk Bros, the Sam Cooke album is one of my favorites because ultimately the girls sound great, but "Change Is Gonna Come" is the one skippable song on the set. I tend to skip "Only 16" too, but not as much as I skip "Change". Sometimes Motown got carried away with the Diana leads. She was great but she was not right for every damn song. There are definitely songs the other girls were better fits for.
i agree about Cooke. it's a fav album as it features the original lineup and does so prominently. Flo's lead is probably one of [[if not the) best lead she recorded throughout her recording career. IMO it's her strongest Motown lead and certainly better than any of the pablum done at ABC. Her intonation is perfect, her phrasing is amazing and she has the opportunity to both belt it out and sing it straight. marvelous
the three part harmony throughout the album is also gorgeous. Bring it to me is a fav. cupid a close second.
too bad Mary didn't have a bit more featured role other than the bass/alto line in Chain Gang.
I agree with you Sup. Vocally I think the girls sound great on the Symphony cuts, but I definitely agree that the overall production pales compared to those type of songs that would be recorded throughout 1966 and 1967. Personally I still think Motown missed an opportunity to give the Supremes a true classic Motown album by making the Symphony album so MOR. I probably would've gone with:
I Hear a Symphony
Take Me Where You Go
It's All Your Fault
Heat Wave [[1st version)
Too Hurt to Cry
It's the Same Old Song [[1st version)
My World Is Empty
A Lover's Concerto
Any Girl In Love
Too Much Too Little Too Soon
Everything Is Good About You
He's All I Got
Maybe consider "Yesterday" and "Unchained Melody" with different tracks suitable to a Motown album.
Florence should definitely have done "A Change Is Gonna Come", my favorite Sam Cooke song. I could see all three sharing the lead, as in "It Makes No Difference Now" from CW&P. Mary would be great on "Nothing Can Change This Love", and "Only Sixteen". I don't care much for "Sentimental Reasons" in their live medley, so I don't miss it here.
I'm hearing it right now!Quote:
Believe it or not, I think Florence would've really shined on the yodeling album.:D
more gems were found. so hopefully not much longer
after the release of the last diana ross solo album , several tracks were found. they will be released on the upcoming Ross 78. of all the albums, I think I am more or less excited about this album in regards to the confusion as to why they used the track list they did, while other gems were left in the vaults. this could have been a much stronger album obviously. cant wait to see the new expanded edition.
i wonder if Russ , who mixed this album, has any memories...thoughts
The late 70s timeframe was very odd as far as Motown went. But "Sleepin'"??? It was awful and that's exactly what it did. LTISH was country/pop but still weak for a Diana Ross single. Then Ross 76 kicked in with "Love Hangover" but the album itself was only worth the other singles, "Do You Know" and "A Little Time". "One Love In My Lifetime" was also very weak. By the time Ross 78 came around it was a huge disappointment to see "Sorry Doesn't Always" and "Together" boarding the bus so late then that dreadful, "Reach Out I'll Be There" from 1971. What was the point of that? They had plenty of material to make a cohesive album. The only thing saving it was "Lovin', Livin, Given'", "What You Gave Me", "You Were The One" and "Never Say I Don't Love You". Then that horrible album cover...I remember reading an article where Ross said she wanted to do an album cover with her holding a cigarette and the smoke spelled out her name. I thought it may be a clever idea but I didn't know it was going to be a cartoon. They almost had a great album but completely missed the boat with the exception of those four songs. Just my opinion but the only albums that I have enjoyed to this day are, Diana Ross 1970, Surrender and The Boss, obviously all Ashford & Simpson productions. The rest are hole punched bargain bin. She had, what, six #1 singles? But she had more bombs than most people think. I do give her credit though as a magnificent performer and I have seen her twice and I certainly would not deny her legacy. I think the best part was with The Supremes but it was clear she could stand alone and did it very well.
i havent got a updates other than the leftovers from the last set, but they find new songs every day
hoped for an announcement today as its diana b day but of course universal.....disappoints yet again