Exept President Pussy Grabber has zero evidence to back up his fake claims. Hes throwing tantrums on twitter. What a big fat loser!!!!
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well getting back to the subject at hand [[yea, President Biden!) regarding the group once Jean lost her taste for the whole thing, it became a matter of "There's no business, like NO BUSINESS, like no business.... I Know!"
and you all can find a proper 'encounter group' [[if they still do such things) via Google!
Yes, Mary had quite a bit of tenacity to continue to keep the group going. I understand it is a business but the genesis was formed through friendship.I started this because I wondered-as a human being-how Mary may have felt. Yes, we all know Diana Ross is special and talented. The other members were special and talented, as well, even if not at that same level. Also, business is personal as personal relationships affect many business decisions. When Berry told Mary he washed his hands of the group, she surely knew she was going to fight an uphill battle. Also, despite what anyone thinks of her-Mary was an integral part of the original group and DRATS. She is beautiful and talented and yes special in her own way. Mary has tremendous inner strength-something Diana Ross even wrote in her book Secrets of a Sparrow. Mary has tenacity and she has succeeded in her own way to share her love of the group she cofounded and her two friends Florence Ballard and Diana Ross. Motown may have felt by the 70's they were "sequined out" and that they didn't care for Mary's vocal talents but Mary's sheer will has allowed her to get over her personal hurt to soldier on. We don't need an encounter group, just wondered how as a human being Mary really felt about what had happened. Mary always felt that Florence and Diana's vocal talents exceeded hers and she worked to have the 70's lineups do much more sharing going forward. Had she been picked and sand Where Did Our Love Go I am sure she would have ran with it but I still feel she would have wanted Florence and Diana to share with the lead vocals as she stated her loyalty was always to the group.
Also worth noting that 'The Supremes' was Wilson's only $ source so of course she fought to maintain it.
Agreed. But I think Mary would've been better served to have exited with Jean and Lynda when they first started discussing it. After Jean left, Mary was basically at a label that didn't care if she was there or not. Even with her first solo album, Mary was recording for a label that really didn't give a shit. Why stay somewhere you're not wanted? Life is too short for that kind of stuff. I wish Mary had the self confidence to give Motown the finger, along with Jean and Lynda, and go somewhere else. No one will ever get me to change my mind that at another label, and even under another name, that these three in the right hands couldn't have been a major recording unit for at least the rest of the 70s.
Ah, it's good to see that the pandemic, death and destruction, hasn't dampened your condescension Jimi. I had to look up "encounter group" because I had never heard of it. I still fail to understand what it has to do with the friendships of the original Supremes, who, by the way, were not "business partners" at 13,14,15 years old the way they would be later on. These were kids from around the way who got together to do what they loved to do, not three savvy women who sat down and said "We're entering into a business contract with one another..."
problem is i think that there was enough bad blood between MJL that going to another label wouldn't have been productive. sure it may have helped get them out from under the weight of the Sup legacy but M and J had conflicts almost from the start. not saying they had throw down fights every day but they had very different ideas and goals and frankly just were not ever going to align.
Plus as we saw with her A&M record, Jean's very VERY strong personal convictions and attitude really prevented her from going forward in the industry. Jean is a wonderful singer, a decent entertainer and only soso when it comes to the business side of show business.
And she's been short of money a lot of times. You need to hang on to what works and she had to use The Supremes and more so, Diana Ross.
I wonder what happens to all of these heritage artists as the pandemic wears on. The big names can come back as long as they aren't too old but what happens to artists like Mary Wilson who will be 77 before there is any hope of a return to any semblance of normalcy in the concert business.
This is key: we won't just flip a switch and everything's back to normal. It will take at least 2-3 years and then people's finances will remain wrecked. All that disposal income before the pandemic will be in short supply. Even this assumes that significant number of people will take the vaccine [[95%) to get us back in 2-3 years. Current estimates in the US are that only about 50% will take the vaccine. That is a 20 year recovery period.
It is very, very sad, but I think this is it for legacy acts.
Of course we'll wish Mary and all the others well. Mary is a decade past her ability to obtain Social Security and Medicare so she should be able to have a happy life in the way that any other person of her age should. There are those who think that anyone who had a brush with stardom is entitled to an ... well, entitled ... retirement, and I for one agree that all the singers we love should have a better share of royalties. But I don't at all agree that someone should have a 'better' life simply because they were on tv and/or radio 50 years ago. Lesson: every one of us needs to prepare for their own future.
How true that everyone should prepare for their future. I learned that as a teenager. I was working in a little record shop and down the block a guy about ten years older than me was working at a fruit stand. He made a record and it became a giant national hit. He also had a follow up hit. He must have riding high making good money because one day he came in flashing rings on his fingers and driving a brand new pink Cadillac [[I was surprised that it wasn't a Lavender Blue Cadillac) But it wasn't long after that he was back working at the fruit stand.
That taught me that if I ever made some money, I would save and invest some of it and then let that money make money for me so that I wouldn't have to work when I was in my seventies.
I fear that many of our oldies acts aren't touring just because they like it. I think they financially have to.
Of course like all conjecture in these threads, some of the outcomes definitely depend on the details. In a "perfect" world, whatever issues Mary and Jean had were more a result of the stress of being at Motown, stress that may have been alleviated somewhere else. Plus "The Supremes" presented Mary with baggage that was not applicable to Jean, or Lynda. So shedding that old might have also proved a good thing. Even still, Mary might have found that even if things went south at a number label, she may have ended up in the crosshairs of someone who truly believed in her God given abilities and known how to capitalize on them. And thus she may not have even needed to bother with another group. Of course the reality is that she did stay with Motown, and ultimately, past 1972, she has not much to show for that time. Time that might have been best spent elsewhere.
Some on here are thinking she’s a paycheck away from poverty and been saying this for quite a while. Clearly that’s not the case. Somewhere down the line Mary must’ve stashed something away for her to still have her house in Henderson and to afford her comfortable life.
Sadly you're often in the minority with that type of thinking. Most young people aren't thinking much further ahead than next weekend. So consider yourself truly blessed.
As it relates to Mary, there's always this scuttlebutt in the forum that Mary is one overdue bill away from government assistance, but never anything sourced. Far as I've been able to tell, the last time she was in a very bad way was when she was forced to do the unthinkable and ask Diana for money. If I'm not mistaken, I did read that she was making about a million dollars [[I'm assuming a combo of music and book royalties and performance fees) around the time of RTL, which for a person with Mary's resume [[i.e. claim to fame being 1/3 of the biggest female group in the history of music who's role was backing vocalist) seems extremely well off. What evidence is there that her money is funny today? In fact, other than Cindy's medical induced financial issues, I haven't heard of any of the living Supremes having money issues, even if they aren't as wealthy as Diana.
This is probably true for a lot of them, but don't underestimate the power of the stage either. What they get from performing before a live audience can be like a drug. Many of these folks were among the best to ever do it. It's hard to give that up, money or no money, young or old, in sickness or in health.
Lol I just said something similar. I would hate to find out that even after all this time and the troubles she had, like having to go to Diana for money when she so bravely escaped the brutality that was Pedro, that she wouldn't have secured her future somehow, especially for her children. I'm going to give Mary much more credit than to assume that her mind never progressed beyond a 20 something year old woman.
the stories i've heard is that M and J started having issues pretty much immediately. again, i don't think they had big bad fights. but i think Jean pretty early on was trying to push the group in a different direction. My understanding is that she felt that as the lead singer, she would LEAD the group. Mary felt differently. so even before things started to sour, they were showing some degree of incompatibility. Jean was doing all of the leads in the studio, the leads on stage, some bg work with M and C and yet wasn't able to lead the direction of the group. that frustration combined with the issues around pay and the slow decline of the group probably made things so conflicted by 72 and there was no way the LMJ lineup could have continued on any label.
according to Randy's book, Social Security was never deducted from their royalties. SS is deducted from salaries not royalties. so the women wouldn't have this to utilize today
so yes, Mary is continuing to work. so is Diana. i don't know personally what either of their finances are. Fans state that Mary lived beyond her means for years. money from her books quickly was used up. she's had tons of high priced lawsuits.
And royalties have fallen so significantly that they don't count for much - this is why they need the concert business. And now it's gone.
Those crap sites that give you net worth say Berry is worth $400 million, Diana $250 million, Smokey $150 million, Mary $8 million, Cindy $500,000 and Jean $3 million - so if those were true Mary and Jean are doing fine enough. But I think these are wildly inflated and financial people in Canada often won't include your house in your net worth - because we all need somewhere to live.
I think Mary has contributed to the questions about her financial well being by some of what she has said - that she borrowed money from friends [[why not the bank?), that she has to work, and by requiring to be paid for interviews.
But as we all say, she's 77, looks 50, and has survived whatever the means is.
Usually you go to a friend if the bank says no to your request for a loan
Ok - um 52?
i would assume that Diana was not Mary's first choice to go to for the money. in her book, she states how she tried to hold off as long as possible but finally her mother convinced her.
so in regards to Bank vs Diana, it would seem she could NOT get a loan from a bank and therefore had to go to Diana. banks do not offer loans without some form of collateral. and given her financial situation, there most likely wouldn't have been assets readily available or ones that the bank would be interested in. i don't know that a storage locker of gowns would qualify for assets to a bank ;) lol
well actually we don't have to speculate.
the money was for a down payment on a house. banks will not allow you to use a loan or borrow for a down payment. you need cash. so no, mary couldn't go to a bank for that. but we can assume that she would for the mortgage itself.
this was also back in 1981 when there were many less financial tools used by lenders [[as opposed to some of the more creative mortgage options available today). so my earlier comment about collateral and assets wouldn't apply here. And in Supreme Faith, on page 255 Mary states that all of her cash was tied up in her marriage and she was in process of divorce.
Actually I should correct myself. the money she borrowed was for a house. I was thinking more on the lines that she brought it outright then I remembered Mary saying she needed a down payment. So unless She brought it directly from the owner, or Diana brought the house and she was paying her, she still owed whichever bank that held the mortgage. Which means she did get a loan from the bank but also borrowed money from Diana to put down.
exactly - once i dug the book out again, i reread the part where it was for the downpayment. not just money for whatever living expenses. Mary would have been applying for a mortgage and there's no reason to assume she COULDN'T get the mortgage provided the overall price and the monthly payment were within her means. so the bank would have been fine with that. it was just the down payment, which banks do no allow you to finance. so that's apparently what Diana helped with
Like I said before, that was Jean's fault for believing she could come into Mary's group and have her way. I can't imagine a Temptation coming in during the 70s and 80s and on thinking they were going to be in charge of something instead of Otis. Wasn't happening. But my point about the Supremes being "baggage" is tied into some of what you say. Mary was one of the original cultivators of the Supremes brand. Whatever changes were going to occur, Mary probably was invested in staying on brand. Meanwhile, Jean, the up and comer, comes in with all these innovative ideas and to Mary it starts to feel like the original messaging is becoming lost.
In all likelihood they would not have been able to leave the company with the name Supremes. So if they were able to start from the ground up somewhere else, things might have turned out differently. Things sucked between the ladies toward the end, but the way Mary puts it in her book [[her POV of course), the worst of it seemed to arise when Mary refused the idea to leave and go somewhere else. If Jean is the kind of lady I suspect she is based on what has been written and recollected, if she didn't think she could work with Mary, she would've pulled Lynda aside, said "let's blow this joint", found another woman to join them and gone somewhere else per her suggestion.
One of Mary's biggest flaws was not taking risks. She always seemed to play it safe. I'm not sure that's a winning formula for making it in the industry.
Okay, I see my question has been answered. Since that time, Mary appears to have done very well for herself. Diana is uber wealthy because of her position in the Supremes, which launched her into solo superstardom. She parlayed that into an extremely lucrative recording contract with RCA and since has apparently been fairly smart with her money. Mary was never in a position to sing her way into the kind of money Diana has. The comparisons in their finances really doesn't make sense.