it DOES seem to enjoy a bouncy fun reception in her shows, I’m glad you and so many others love it. I think I might have received better had my expectations for some thing more like her previous recent hits not been so strong.
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I have to disagree with you. I was disappointed in this record when it came out and I still don’t care for it, but it doesn’t make me cringe. I don’t think it was riding the coattails of anything because the public responded strongly with record sales. Songs that road coattails are in and out of love which rose quickly and dropped immediately, ditto I’m living in shame. Those songs received a lot of AirPlay because of the coattails, but the public did not respond with purchases in kind. Why do you fools did very well in the sales department. Surprisingly well. By the 80s, Radiohead a lot more information at their fingertips to gauge which songs to continue to play. Work that body, was a gigantic disappointment after that long string of hits. Folks weren’t buying it.
Whatever your opinion of WDFFIL's artistic merit - and we can respect each other's opinion - the bottom line was the public loved it and in fact still do.
Interestingly in two countries in which Diana didn't have a prolific chart career, Germany and [[perhaps surprisingly) Australia Fools was one of those records which did go top 20.
The UK adored “Work That Body reaching number #7 on the pop charts. It did a lot better here then “Mirror Mirror” with the Uk never really embracing that rock sound.
I remember it being all over the airwaves in 82, also making the top ten in Ireland.
It was the cloying “So Close” that brought the string of hits to an abrupt end.
And in the Netherlands, Why Do Fools Fall In Love is her first and only #1 [[not counting "A Brand New Day" which was also a #1 here). The song was very popular at the time, yet nowadays you never hear it on the radio anymore, while other Ross songs are played regularly [[including the new single "Thank You"). I loved WDFFIL when it came out [[also because of the very joyful music video), but in retrospect I find it too MOR/Adult contemporary, particularly indeed when comparing it to The Boss and diana, which really re-established Ross as a major recording star.
Not sure that is still the case Florence. I have not heard Fools on the radio for over 20 years. It is true to say Ms Ross still loves to perform it and will no doubt continue to do so, but i don't think the general public yearn to hear it unlike some of her classic hits which continue to be played regularly. It has not aged well in my opinion.
However we will continue to be treated to it along with the equally awful i will survive simply because Ms Ross loves to sing those songs, and they are easy songs for her to perform. It doesn't matter if us long term fans yearn for something different. The only changes to her live set will be 2 or 3 songs from the new album. Of course she will add a couple of UK favourites for the tour next year, but don't expect many if any "surprises" that we all would love to hear
I'm not so sure about that. Cash Box, which tallied it's positions based on sales, ranked "Fools" at #7, "Shame" at #8 and "In and Out" at #10. Additionally, for "Fools" to have been some big seller in the US, I can find no gold or platinum certification. The album went platinum but it appears the single failed to hit gold status. Of course, as has happened in the Diana Ross discography a few times, the song may have sold exceptionally well in other parts of the world. I don't know exactly how songs ride on the coattails of the ones before it, so I'm not arguing that point. I just don't see much evidence that supports the claim that people ran out and bought "Fools" in some dramatic fashion, compared to some others. I would also offer that "Fools" isn't any more present in the conscious of the general public than either "Shame" or "In and Out".
I was wondering what the competition was on the Top 40 at the time: It was still a pretty good period for Top 40 , some big records, big names :
CASH BOX TOP 100 SINGLES
November 28, 1981
1 PHYSICAL--- OLIVIA NEWTON -JOHN [[MCA -51182) 1 9
2 PRIVATE EYES ---DARYL HALL & JOHN OATES [[RCA PB -12296) 2 14
3 WAITING FOR A GIRL LIKE YOU--- FOREIGNER [[Atlantic 3868) 4 8
4 ARTHUR'S THEME [[BEST THAT YOU CAN DO)--- CHRISTOPHER CROSS [[Warner Bros. WBS 49787) 3 16
5 HERE I AM--- AIR SUPPLY [[Arista AS 0626) 7 11
6 START ME UP--- ROLLING STONES [[Rolling Stones/Atlantic RS 21003) 5 15
7 OH NO--- COMMODORES [[Motown M 1527F) 8 11
8 EVERY LITTLE THING SHE DOES IS MAGIC ---THE POLICE [[A&M 2371) 9 10
9 YOUNG TURKS ---ROD STEWART [[Warner Bros. WBS 49843) 15 7
10 WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE?---DIANA ROSS [[RCA PB -12349)
RCA was doing pretty good : Besides Diana Ross:
Two H&O records in the Top 40, #2 and I CAN"T GO FOR THAT racing up at #22, Rick Springfield their current hot property at #12, and a surprise hit, HOOKED ON CLASSICS entering the Top 40 at #33 , and Ronnie Milsap at #39.
Added:
The Four Tops are also on here #14 --- WHEN SHE WAS MY GIRL
Rick James now drops off with SUPERFREAK
and ENDLESS LOVE is still on the Top 40 @ #38 , just now falling from last week's position of #6
......so yes i think some coat-tailing here is a fair observation
There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh that’s such a horrible song I can’t stand it it’s Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you don’t think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[🩹 it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it
Actually, all anyone is doing is sharing their opinion of a 1981 single by Diana Ross.
Given that most people in the world didn't buy it, there will be some who like it, some who don't like it, and billions who have probably never heard it.
Also, some people will think that releasing it was a good move, and others will think that it wasn't a good move.
How people express their views will vary from person to person, but all they are doing is expressing their views about a 1981 single, since that is what this thread is about.
Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.
I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.
I've said this before and will no doubt have to say it again, but this is a forum, not an appreciation society.
The dictionary defines a forum as a ..."place for public discussion...giving opportunity for debate". Consequently different points of view should be encouraged. This could cause problems for very young members who have formed their opinions through social media, as they tend to gravitate to groups with similar world-views and therefore may not be able to grasp the concept of dissent.
However forums have existed for several thousand years as a conduit for reasoned arguments, so no one is going to hold back on firmly held views just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone with an opposing view.
On the whole, members get on reasonably well with each other as long as they concentrate on the arguments themselves and do not let things become personal.
I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.
highest chart position is certainly a strong barometer of level of success, but it is Often not the whole story.
in and out of love rocketed into the top ten on the coattails of Reflections. It got its Reflections boost, couldn’t sustain, and died a quickie.
In And Out *65, *47, *29, *13, *9, 9, 12, 21 8 weeks
Ditto
Shame. *47, *22, *15, 11, 10, 12, 21, 29 8 weeks
* Bullet
A month or so is all that’s needed to see if a record is strong on its own merits. in the 60’s, Herman’s Hermits and Gary Lewis both usually shot up fast and died quickly. For our purposes:
‘Fools launches on the strength of her recent mammoth success, but the public responded and sustained it into a very successful record with legs.
Fools is white hot longer than the total chart life of the others.
Fools total chart life is 150% longer
Fools’ fade is very indicative of a strong record. Even its fade is longer than the chart life of the other two.
Fools. @56, @38, @28, @21, @14, @12, @10, @9, @8, @7, 7, 7, 15, 25, 27, 42, 79, 75, 96, 99 20 weeks
@White Hot Bullet [[strongest surge)
* Bullet
Bluebrock, thank you so much for restating what happened. RCA bungled it from the get go and is largely responsible for the loss on their investment. Did they even recommend another producer to helm her label debut? They were thinking short term and screwed themselves.
I think WDFFIL was a great choice for a single. It was nice to have something that, along with the video, presented a fun and upbeat side to Diana Ross to herald a new start on RCA.
Of all the great oldies to re-record, she chose Why Do Fools Fall In Love and Sweet Nothings ??????
I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.
RCA had a $15 million dollar investment on their hands who was delusional. I can only imagine how many nights sleep were lost and executive careers ruined.
I guess RCA wanted to get Diana Ross product out there given the amount of money they spent to sign her, and due to her recent string of big hits. Strike while the iron is hot. But one can argue that she wasn't a newly minted star where there is a true need to get a new song and album to maintain the momentum of a new star. Diana Ross was established. Would the public have forgotten her if more time had been taken to produce her RCA debut? I don't think so.
I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.
that’s one of the wonderful things about this group, everybody has their a little bit of some thing to add, or to comment, or to suggest. When I think of Marv, I think of all the wonderful clips he provided that I never would’ve heard of, I know I had more than a share of run-ins with him, but I don’t think about that anymore I’m so glad.
oh i think it's a mess. 30 years later its fine enough but no way would it have been a quality album. Day 1 is fine enough but you have the whole mess of the weather. without the visual of her on stage in the rain and wind, the sound isn't great. Day 2 her voice isn't as strong. a little raspy now and then.
now if they were releasing VHS tapes of videos back at this time, perhaps that would have been a better outlet. then you have the wildly dramatic visual of the storm and Day 1. then pick a few pieces of Day 2 and have that almost as "Act II" in the video. but this concert doesn't have the audio quality of her Evening With back in 77.
she certainly could have released the 79 HBO special on audio. her vocals there are masterful.
I think they could have released a single out of her performance of RIBBON IN THE SKY. IMO, it was her best vocal of the day, along with MIRROR, MIRROR.
Back in 1983, one of my local stations aired the Central Park concert and I taped it on 8-track! For months, I used to listen to it every day from 4-5:30 like clockwork. I remember wondering why it wasn't released as a live album but now I agree that it really doesn't work as well without the stunning visuals.