Does Anyone Understand What the Goal was with the Supremes/Four Tops Recordings?

Both groups were capable of great recordings during this period. I like "River Deep, Mountain High" and a handful other of the duet tracks.

I understand that Motown was trying to promotes both groups and make money, but why such crappy recordings?

A friend of mine, when hearing these albums for the first time, asked whether these were supposed to be Pop, or MOR or R&B? Who were these tracks supposed to appeal to other than diehard fans who bought everything?

Did these releases kill the momentum the Supremes were making in the 1970's?

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Originally Posted by JimEMack

Both groups were capable of great recordings during this period. I like "River Deep, Mountain High" and a handful other of the duet tracks.

I understand that Motown was trying to promotes both groups and make money, but why such crappy recordings?

A friend of mine, when hearing these albums for the first time, asked whether these were supposed to be Pop, or MOR or R&B? Who were these tracks supposed to appeal to other than diehard fans who bought everything?

Did these releases kill the momentum the Supremes were making in the 1970's?

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The supremes were riding high when they went into the studio with the sagging for tops, but like everything at Motown it was to make money. And like everything at Motown, and there was a dearth of decent material. I think River deep was a great singer, I had no use for the rest of the album. I also didn’t like the majority of the tracks The Supremes and The Temptations did together. A few were fantastic, but mostly I just skip over them. They sold a lot of albums full of mediocre material, so I assumed they thought they would do the same, on a lesser scale probably, with a Four Tops.

The tops were coming off their biggest selling album in years, and the Supremes were having hit singles but already experiencing album trouble saleswise. I would never have released magnificent seven as it was. It was a commercial disaster waiting to happen and that is exactly what happened. I actually like most of dynamite, but the other two, yuck.

I know I sound like a broken record, but launching Ross, the Supremes, the Jackson 5 all at the same time was more than what they were equipped for. On top of that, Martha was a mess, the Temptations were imploding, the Four Tops had sunk, The marvelets were toast, Tammi was very ill, they had not enough decent material for Gladys, and Marvin Gaye was depressed and not recording. It was not a good time to be Berry Gordy but I still would not have let out an album on those two groups that was that cheesy.

I like a lot of the Tops duets, but feel the second and third albums aren't very cohesive, just a hodge podge of songs. But all three albums feature some fantastic singing and some great songs.

I think pairing the two groups for Mag7 was a good idea and it yielded a hit single, so who could argue with it? My question has always been, why the second, and definitely, why the third duet album? I'm guessing the first and second albums sold better than the chart numbers suggests, because that's a lot of effort put into a supergroup venture that couldn't break into the Hot 100 even with the album that contained the hit single.

Makes no sense.

I think Motown was using the pairing as a way to make money. The pairing with the Temps worked somewhat and had 2 television specials. They hit the Billboard chart at #2 and #28 with Join and Together. They had a hit with I'm Gonna Make You Love Me at #2. TCB hit #1 and GIT hit #38.I'll Try Something New hit #25 and The Weight was #46. While Jean and Levi had some exciting vocals, that pairing did not do as well. River Deep hit #14 but Magnificent 7 only reached #113 and Return was #154 and Dynamite was #160. Motown was just trying to squeeze whatever it could from the pairing and You Gotta Have Love in Your Heart only reached #55. Dynamite didn't even have a single release. I remember reading a local paper asking why they kept reteaming them with such mediocre material and that they should let the pairing die a natural death. Motown saturated the market with Supremes and then with the Tops. Stoned Love may have hit higher but River Deep was released soon afterwards. There was a glut of material. They may have saturated the market before when the group was on top but it was starting off again as a new group with a new lead singer and sound, so to saturate fans with so much material on top of getting used to the new grouping was clearly to squeeze as much money out of the name without the foresight of looking long term at the group's best interests. Motown was only looking at temporary green.

I love all three of the duet albums, though I admit the second and third one are somewhat inconsistent. The second album I think suffers from too many originals and not enough standards or songs from the Motown catalog. The third album definitely seems like a bit of a hodgepodge. Nevertheless I think the complete duet CD set is a great collection and I listen to it a lot. I like the fun and the spontaneity the groups seem to have, especially in cuts like “You’ve Got What it Takes”. They just seem to be having so much fun. Even though the sound is consistent with other albums from that time frame, it reminds me of the earlier years when there weren’t Andantes singing background which to me created so much sameness in the backgrounds that the groups lost a lot of their identities. And even though the Andantes were better singers than some of the background vocalists, when you had the original members in the background you really felt like you knew all the singers in the groups, not just the lead singers.

And yes of course, money was the bottom line in all these pairings.

In the UK Magnificent 7 was a huge success reaching #6. Mountain made #11 and You Gotta Have Love in Your Heart peaked at #25. Nothing else charted after that! I have all three albums but I doubt that I will ever play them again. By 1970, with the exception of Stevie & Marvin, Motown was a big hot mess! Tammi was dead, Brenda had left, the Four Tops were fading fast, Temptations membership changed more often than socks! Marvelettes were really only Wanda and Martha and Gladys were on their way out. Diana had gone solo and her first single was not the success that Gordy had hoped for. Apart from the Temptations the new Supremes were the only ones having hits so I suppose that Gordy thought he would harness their power to help the sinking career of the Four Tops. It was a gamble that only paid out a small dividend! As so often was the case Motown had no idea what they were doing. So much rubbish was recorded in the early '70's I often wonder if Gordy still had his hand on the tiller!

There's a clip of the Sups/Tops [[rehearsal I think?) for their Top of the Pops performance of "Gotta Have Love" floating around out there. Watch it. It's a hot mess. Unintentionally, Jean and Levi are trying to blow each other out of the water. Mary looks like a kangaroo, bouncing around. A duet only works if the voices compliment each other. Unlike the DRATS/TEMPTS duets, Jean and Levi were vocally too similar.

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

There's a clip of the Sups/Tops [[rehearsal I think?) for their Top of the Pops performance of "Gotta Have Love" floating around out there. Watch it. It's a hot mess. Unintentionally, Jean and Levi are trying to blow each other out of the water. Mary looks like a kangaroo, bouncing around. A duet only works if the voices compliment each other. Unlike the DRATS/TEMPTS duets, Jean and Levi were vocally too similar.

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Jean and Levi were an exciting combo on certain songs. This songs just wasn't going to be a hit. This was rehearsal footage. It seems Mary and her Top companion were trying to make the song more exciting than it was. Mary always seemed to give alot extra when the song quality wasn't a hit, I think she was hoping to add excitement and interest into something that wasn't as good as she and the fans were used tohttps://youtu.be/wYjSH-JQVIw

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

There's a clip of the Sups/Tops [[rehearsal I think?) for their Top of the Pops performance of "Gotta Have Love" floating around out there. Watch it. It's a hot mess. Unintentionally, Jean and Levi are trying to blow each other out of the water. Mary looks like a kangaroo, bouncing around. A duet only works if the voices compliment each other. Unlike the DRATS/TEMPTS duets, Jean and Levi were vocally too similar.

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There isn't a point where I see Levi and Jean trying to "blow each other out of the water". They appear to be staying within the lines of the original recording, which is Levi not doing too much and the song at a point becoming a Jean vocal tour de force.

I still maintain that the problem with "You Gotta" was the track, not the lyrics and definitely not the vocals. Particularly with how Jean went in on it, I think it's a shock that the track is kind of hokey and has more of a pop sound than a soul sound. The theme of the song was hip at the time, so you take the lyrics, you take Jean and Levi giving master classes in singing, and pair it with a track so tough that it leaps out of the radio and punches you in the throat, and I think the song could've been a winner.

IMO, as is, replace the two groups with any pop act, like the Carpenters or the Osmonds, and it could've been a hit for them. That track just doesn't support the energy Jean and Levi give it.

i think there were a variety of issues here

the Supremes had [[initially at least) survived the loss of Diana Ross. Ladder was a huge hit and the album Right On was a solid seller, besting most of the DRATS materials for the last year. i believe there had been a bit of a wait-and-see approach. for instance they only had the red jumpsuits to start with - all else were DRATS outfits until you get to the second half of the year with the white fringe pantsuits on Andy Williams, the pink ones with Glenn Campbell, etc.

The tops had really suffered from the loss of HDH. they got through the 1st half of 68 with pulling more things from the Reach Out album but that well eventually dried out. prior to the Still Water project, i think Don't Let Him Take Your Love From Me was the best thing. it was funky and energetic and should have done better. but nothing clicked until All In the Game and Still Water in 70. and the SW album did just slightly better than Right On, 21 on the pop charts versus 25 for RO

After the strong sales and reviews from the first couple of months of 70 for both groups, i think they charged forward with the duets. the first duet recordings were in late April with River Deep. and then much of the work through the summer was all focused on the duets. River was a super hot song and indicated what COULD happen when the groups were combined. IMO it's nearly as strong, although a totally different song, as Im Gonna Make You Love Me. on IGMYLM you have the romantic vocals of Eddie and Diana, cooing to one another. neither Levi nor jean is a coo-er lolol. and so the songs are drastically different but perfect for each pairing.

but the rest is typical motown

1. the albums were padded out with dreck. the duet concept was so new and exciting with Join the Temps that i think that pushed the album up the charts as much as anything. although that bad boy sold for a LONG time. was on the charts over 30 weeks. but i can't imagine it was linger on the charts cuz the contents were all that great

2. the Temps and Sups were hotter in late 68 than the Tops and Sups were in late 70.
3. the second albums [[and 3rd for the top duets) showed that the ploy was running thin. Together was not a big seller but all of the dogs at least made the middle rankings. as did the Sups albums as the time. for whatever reason by 70 and 71, you just couldn't assume all albums would at least make the top 50.
4. too much in too narrow a time - the Tops had Changing Times released around the time of Mag 7 and New Ways was released at the same time too. for two groups that were rebounding in success but not necessarily firmly re-established, this was overkill. too much material and too much questionable quality

in the end, you can sum it up "money" Motown never gave 1 shit about making an artistic statement or something for the ages. they wanted to sell records today

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

There isn't a point where I see Levi and Jean trying to "blow each other out of the water". They appear to be staying within the lines of the original recording, which is Levi not doing too much and the song at a point becoming a Jean vocal tour de force.

I still maintain that the problem with "You Gotta" was the track, not the lyrics and definitely not the vocals. Particularly with how Jean went in on it, I think it's a shock that the track is kind of hokey and has more of a pop sound than a soul sound. The theme of the song was hip at the time, so you take the lyrics, you take Jean and Levi giving master classes in singing, and pair it with a track so tough that it leaps out of the radio and punches you in the throat, and I think the song could've been a winner.

IMO, as is, replace the two groups with any pop act, like the Carpenters or the Osmonds, and it could've been a hit for them. That track just doesn't support the energy Jean and Levi give it.

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let's just say it - the track for YGHLIYH sucked. it was very hokey and they should have done a "follow the bouncing ball and sing along!" video for it.

there are 10,000 other approaches they could have done with it. you could have had it more like a fire and brimstone approach like River Deep, more gospel like I'll Take You there, a rocking number like Three Dog Night Joy to the World. maybe done some one liners for the others in the groups. even as is, Jean's ad libs at the end are sensational. you could have included more of those and given the song an ending that was more memorable.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I like a lot of the Tops duets, but feel the second and third albums aren't very cohesive, just a hodge podge of songs. But all three albums feature some fantastic singing and some great songs.

I think pairing the two groups for Mag7 was a good idea and it yielded a hit single, so who could argue with it? My question has always been, why the second, and definitely, why the third duet album? I'm guessing the first and second albums sold better than the chart numbers suggests, because that's a lot of effort put into a supergroup venture that couldn't break into the Hot 100 even with the album that contained the hit single.

Makes no sense.

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The first single was great. The album is so bad, that it was ridiculously panned by fans. The next two sold even worse. The main reason is that the few people that bought the first one didn’t like it. Only diehards were buying them because what word of mouth there was was terrible. It was inexcusable to put out garbage like that on these two great groups. In the summer of 73, those two last albums were filling up cut out bins around the country. They weren’t even selling for $.99.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

There isn't a point where I see Levi and Jean trying to "blow each other out of the water". They appear to be staying within the lines of the original recording, which is Levi not doing too much and the song at a point becoming a Jean vocal tour de force.

I still maintain that the problem with "You Gotta" was the track, not the lyrics and definitely not the vocals. Particularly with how Jean went in on it, I think it's a shock that the track is kind of hokey and has more of a pop sound than a soul sound. The theme of the song was hip at the time, so you take the lyrics, you take Jean and Levi giving master classes in singing, and pair it with a track so tough that it leaps out of the radio and punches you in the throat, and I think the song could've been a winner.

IMO, as is, replace the two groups with any pop act, like the Carpenters or the Osmonds, and it could've been a hit for them. That track just doesn't support the energy Jean and Levi give it.

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I think it was just the opposite. The track was perfect for radio in the spring of 71. If you look at the songs that were on the charts at the time, fit right in. Levi in jeans vocals are great. The problem is the cornball lyric, and that Johnny man singers background vocals. No radio station in the world was gonna play anything that sounds like that. If you had been around in the day, I’m sure you would agree. The only saving grace really was the track. The lyric was just too syrupy and benign. And it’s a shame, because I love those two voices together.

and remember, Motown invested very little in these albums. All the production costs were paid for by the acts. All Motown had to do was come up with artwork and press it. Advertising budgets came out of the acts royalties to a certain percentage and the rest was picked up by Motown. They had very little to lose. They put out those chart busters album 16 big hits all kinds of things like that that usually didn’t chart that high but they still kept putting them out and putting them out and putting them out because it didn’t cost him hardly anything. And remember, most albums that get released do not chart… That doesn’t mean that there was no money made. These Motown ask had to pay for everything they loaded a vocal on, and they got taken advantage of big-time.

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

I think it was just the opposite. The track was perfect for radio in the spring of 71. If you look at the songs that were on the charts at the time, fit right in. Levi in jeans vocals are great. The problem is the cornball lyric, and that Johnny man singers background vocals. No radio station in the world was gonna play anything that sounds like that. If you had been around in the day, I’m sure you would agree. The only saving grace really was the track. The lyric was just too syrupy and benign. And it’s a shame, because I love those two voices together.

and remember, Motown invested very little in these albums. All the production costs were paid for by the acts. All Motown had to do was come up with artwork and press it. Advertising budgets came out of the acts royalties to a certain percentage and the rest was picked up by Motown. They had very little to lose. They put out those chart busters album 16 big hits all kinds of things like that that usually didn’t chart that high but they still kept putting them out and putting them out and putting them out because it didn’t cost him hardly anything. And remember, most albums that get released do not chart… That doesn’t mean that there was no money made. These Motown ask had to pay for everything they loaded a vocal on, and they got taken advantage of big-time.

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while i don't think YGHLIYH was a lyric masterpiece, i don't think that was the problem. there were tons of feel-good tunes out there at the time. many charting very well. Could the lyric have been better - most certainly. The producer did leverage jean's vocals marvelously. but unfortunately the best was cut from the end. levi does a decent lead but not a standout. and you're right. the backing vocals are bland - nothing at all like the excitement you got from the all of the vocals [[which include additional singers) on River.

But i still say the worst part was the terrible track. the bouncy sing-song nature was so out of touch with the times. far too cornball

while i don't find Mag 7 to be as terrible as your statement, it is certainly not great. a bunch of meaningless covers and only a few tunes do the producer rise to the occasion and deliver something that really showcases both leads and the groups.

one of the best words i can think of to describe the whole effort is "irrelevant"

and at this time, both the general time/sentiment in the industry and the critical stages both groups were at in their careers, irrelevant can prove fatal. a nail in the coffin on pop popularity that requires a massive homerun to correct. something neither group was frankly really able to achieve

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

while i don't think YGHLIYH was a lyric masterpiece, i don't think that was the problem. there were tons of feel-good tunes out there at the time. many charting very well. Could the lyric have been better - most certainly. The producer did leverage jean's vocals marvelously. but unfortunately the best was cut from the end. levi does a decent lead but not a standout. and you're right. the backing vocals are bland - nothing at all like the excitement you got from the all of the vocals [[which include additional singers) on River.

But i still say the worst part was the terrible track. the bouncy sing-song nature was so out of touch with the times. far too cornball

while i don't find Mag 7 to be as terrible as your statement, it is certainly not great. a bunch of meaningless covers and only a few tunes do the producer rise to the occasion and deliver something that really showcases both leads and the groups.

one of the best words i can think of to describe the whole effort is "irrelevant"

and at this time, both the general time/sentiment in the industry and the critical stages both groups were at in their careers, irrelevant can prove fatal. a nail in the coffin on pop popularity that requires a massive homerun to correct. something neither group was frankly really able to achieve

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Join was the first album by either group where there were multiple tracks that just made me go yuk - for years, by far the most plentiful Motown album on eBay was join. I was looking for a mono copy, and I spent hours and hours and hours and hours looking through millions of them and finally I found one they shipped it to me and it was cracked in half. My first real cringing with the Supremes was on let the sunshine in, then I practically cringed through much of together.

YGHLIYH Track reminded me very much of Chicka boom which was a hit at the time. And the field good lyrics were common back in the day but they were much slicker written, I’d like to buy the world a Coke that one for example. I’m glad they did the albums, but like so much of the last of the golden years of Motown, I wish they had spent more time on quality control. And I love Jean and Levi together so much, it baffles me that more couldn’t have been done with them. Bring in gamble and huff, do an album with them , even Barry white - you had great talent here and they’re being given banal covers. There was a chance to make great music here, perhaps important music, and they went for the nickels instead of the dollars.

I think it’s a shame that they weren’t able to release Why [[Must We Fall In Love), I think they made a big mistake not putting the impossible dream out from TCB rather than I’ll try something new, rhythm of life might’ve been a very interesting single. It would edit down very nicely for 3:25 and I think would’ve sold a fair number of extra albums, unfortunately most people would be disappointed with them because it won’t sound anything like the single but at least you would’ve sold more. They could make quality commercial music, but they just didn’t try hard enough. They brought in HB Barnum to work on G.I. T and his work with Gil was sensational. He was an untapped resource.

"Goal" I can't advise, but there sure were wonderful recordings, and 'River Deep' alone was worth the pairing.

Motown frequently paired acts up when one or both of those acts was trying to break out. Mary Wells was hot so she was paired with Marvin Gaye in an effort to break him into bigger mainstream sales. Later Marvin was used to do the same with Kim Weston and Tammi Terrell. The Supremes/Temptations pairing was a different situation in that both groups were hot, the Supremes a little cooler by then, but both were being featured on a major tv special during that time frame. This pairing got stellar results.

The Supremes sans Ross took off better than expected and the Tops were struggling so the pairing was intended to bolster sales of both of those groups. Unfortunately, it hindered the sales and did the opposite of what the Supremes/Temptations pairing did. The duet lps cut into the sales of both groups current lps. I don't understand why a third lp of Supremes/4 Tops was issued since the first two did so poorly. Motown didn't even bother to issue a single off Dynamite. Likely it was because both groups had slowed in popularity.

Later when Thelma Houston was hot, Motown paired her with Jerry Butler to try and launch his Motown career. G.C. Cameron and Syreeta were both struggling so a duet lp was issued on them but unfortunately went nowhere. Likewise when Edwin Starr got hot in 1969 he was used to introduce Blinky with tepid results. So this marketing logic was a hit and miss situation.

I "came to" about pop culture around 1972 as a kid, and one of my earliest memories was going to a department store that sold albums [[remember those?)--there were stacks and stacks of the Supremes/4 Tops records for 99 cents. I remember buying the one with Gotta Have Love In Your Heart on it, and honestly I thought it was about the lamest, dreariest excuse for an album. It sounded like old lady music to me. The other albums I recall in the 99 cent bin were the 5th Dimension's Living Together which I bought as well and thought "what is this garbage?" and the Supreme's Produced by Jimmy Webb. I actually liked several cuts on Jimmy Webb, but the rest was IMO old lady music. A short time later Rufus came out and I LOVED their music--and the music of Parliament/Funk, Labelle, Teddy P, and others as well. They were the future. In hindsight, it is clear that there was no plan for the 70's Supremes, other than squeezing out a few last dollars from a dying brand. Same thing happened to the 5th Dimension. They did not change with the times.

I actually preferred the Supremes/Tops version of Reach Out And Touch than the Diana Ross version but I think it was released as a single in the UK too close to the original and suffered from making any chart impact. It actually made number 56 in Australia.

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

I actually preferred the Supremes/Tops version of Reach Out And Touch than the Diana Ross version but I think it was released as a single in the UK too close to the original and suffered from making any chart impact. It actually made number 56 in Australia.

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I have always preferred the Supremes/Tops version as well. It certainly had potential to become the sizeable hit the Ross version never quite managed.

Bobby C's mention of the 5th Dimension, a vocal group of men and women, makes me wonder if the success of the 5th Dimension in late 60s and early 70s was another reason Motown paired the Supremes first with the Tempts and then the Tops?

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Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21

Bobby C's mention of the 5th Dimension, a vocal group of men and women, makes me wonder if the success of the 5th Dimension in late 60s and early 70s was another reason Motown paired the Supremes first with the Tempts and then the Tops?

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I never thought about that until you wrote it. That is a very intriguing possibility... pairing the Supremes and Tops to counter the 5th Dimension, which clearly impinged on the Motown Sound.

I don't think so, Spreading. The 5th was waning by 1971, so I doubt they had anything to do with what Motown did with the Supremes/Tops.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

while i don't think YGHLIYH was a lyric masterpiece, i don't think that was the problem. there were tons of feel-good tunes out there at the time. many charting very well. Could the lyric have been better - most certainly. The producer did leverage jean's vocals marvelously. but unfortunately the best was cut from the end. levi does a decent lead but not a standout. and you're right. the backing vocals are bland - nothing at all like the excitement you got from the all of the vocals [[which include additional singers) on River.

But i still say the worst part was the terrible track. the bouncy sing-song nature was so out of touch with the times. far too cornball

while i don't find Mag 7 to be as terrible as your statement, it is certainly not great. a bunch of meaningless covers and only a few tunes do the producer rise to the occasion and deliver something that really showcases both leads and the groups.

one of the best words i can think of to describe the whole effort is "irrelevant"

and at this time, both the general time/sentiment in the industry and the critical stages both groups were at in their careers, irrelevant can prove fatal. a nail in the coffin on pop popularity that requires a massive homerun to correct. something neither group was frankly really able to achieve

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I don't think the track was terrible in itself. It was just the wrong track for Levi Stubbs and Jean Terrell. I'd even be fine with the track if it was Jean and the Supremes and it was just an album cut on Touch. I actually like the song. But as a single, no, No, NO! Compare the sound of this record to the sounds of what was hitting successfully at Motown during this time. That track can't compare to any of the other tracks Motown was releasing at the time that was making the top 10.

As for Mag7, side one to me is great. The two groups kick butt from start to finish. And while I personally don't care for "Baby You've Got What It Takes", it's hard not to find it a highlight of the set, with both groups sounding like they're having a good time. But it is the only song on that side I don't usually bother to play.

Side two is where it falls apart for me. The highlight is obviously "River Deep", and I do think "A Taste of Honey" is pretty terrific. But they recycled a tune the Supremes already duetted with the Tempts on and another tune the Supremes cut on a DRATS album. Their version of "Miracle" is nice enough, and whenever Lawrence sings a lead is always a treat IMO, but they really don't add anything particularly special to such a classic song. Side two is where the album could have really benefitted from some original tunes.

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

I actually preferred the Supremes/Tops version of Reach Out And Touch than the Diana Ross version but I think it was released as a single in the UK too close to the original and suffered from making any chart impact. It actually made number 56 in Australia.

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I don't prefer the duet to Diana's version, but it's a pretty close second. I think if Diana hadn't done it first, or at least if it hadn't been released as a single first, that the Sup/Tops version would have made for a hit record. I really believe that.

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Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21

Bobby C's mention of the 5th Dimension, a vocal group of men and women, makes me wonder if the success of the 5th Dimension in late 60s and early 70s was another reason Motown paired the Supremes first with the Tempts and then the Tops?

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I really think it's more likely that the roots of the pairing were in the Supremes and the Tempts on Mike Douglas in 1966. [[Everybody keep those fingers crossed that the footage is found someday!) If not, it was definitely the Ed Sullivan joint performance. At that point the 5D only had one hit single and wouldn't have another one for about a year. I don't know if recreating the success of a- at that point- one hit wonder was enough of a selling point for the Motown powers. I think the Mamas and the Papas probably had a better chance of inspiring the idea than the 5D did. But ultimately I think it really stemmed from Motown- whether Gordy or someone else- understanding the potential goldmine in pairing the two acts that basically symbolized the label more than any other acts. And the fact that the two groups were often mentioned in the same breath, and linked because of their origins, it really seems like a no brainer. I'm hoping no one at Motown really needed outside inspiration to come up with such a great idea.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

I have always preferred the Supremes/Tops version as well. It certainly had potential to become the sizeable hit the Ross version never quite managed.

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I like the second half of the duets Reach Out and Touch. When it shifts to 4/4. I’m
Not as huge fan of the two tempos. I think they should have just done the whole song in this new way

A&S did this along w River and another track or two. Frankly they were putting out the strongest duets material for this pairing. Too bad they didn’t helm the entire album

Someone once stated that YGHLIYH was intended as a Sups song. Not a duet. No idea if that’s true or not

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Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Motown frequently paired acts up when one or both of those acts was trying to break out. Mary Wells was hot so she was paired with Marvin Gaye in an effort to break him into bigger mainstream sales. Later Marvin was used to do the same with Kim Weston and Tammi Terrell. The Supremes/Temptations pairing was a different situation in that both groups were hot, the Supremes a little cooler by then, but both were being featured on a major tv special during that time frame. This pairing got stellar results.

The Supremes sans Ross took off better than expected and the Tops were struggling so the pairing was intended to bolster sales of both of those groups. Unfortunately, it hindered the sales and did the opposite of what the Supremes/Temptations pairing did. The duet lps cut into the sales of both groups current lps. I don't understand why a third lp of Supremes/4 Tops was issued since the first two did so poorly. Motown didn't even bother to issue a single off Dynamite. Likely it was because both groups had slowed in popularity.

Later when Thelma Houston was hot, Motown paired her with Jerry Butler to try and launch his Motown career. G.C. Cameron and Syreeta were both struggling so a duet lp was issued on them but unfortunately went nowhere. Likewise when Edwin Starr got hot in 1969 he was used to introduce Blinky with tepid results. So this marketing logic was a hit and miss situation.

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I think Dynamite was released because neither group had a current release for the 71 holiday period. It was at least something that people could buy and put under the Christmas tree

You know it would have been that clueless aunt. When the kids unwrapped and we’re like “oh…. Thanks” and Aunt Eulalie says with a smile “well I just know you like that Rock and Roll and negro music” lol

And then mom forces you to unwrap it and play it so Aunt Eulalie sees how much you like it, thereby ruining your changes to return it for something better

Lol

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

You know it would have been that clueless aunt. When the kids unwrapped and we’re like “oh…. Thanks” and Aunt Eulalie says with a smile “well I just know you like that Rock and Roll and negro music” lol

And then mom forces you to unwrap it and play it so Aunt Eulalie sees how much you like it, thereby ruining your changes to return it for something better

Lol

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OMG. I'm laughing because I can sense you were there and heard just that!!! I know many years later I had more than a few "thanks auntie" moments myself! [and can we not get started on "your love of Negro music" or something much, much more derogatory].

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

I like the second half of the duets Reach Out and Touch. When it shifts to 4/4. I’m
Not as huge fan of the two tempos. I think they should have just done the whole song in this new way

A&S did this along w River and another track or two. Frankly they were putting out the strongest duets material for this pairing. Too bad they didn’t helm the entire album

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A&S's I'M GLAD ABOUT IT is probably my favorite of the Supremes/Tops duets. It certainly deserved more than being relegated to the b-side of YGHLIYH.

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Originally Posted by reese

A&S's I'M GLAD ABOUT IT is probably my favorite of the Supremes/Tops duets. It certainly deserved more than being relegated to the b-side of YGHLIYH.

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I love "I'm Glad About It".

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Originally Posted by thanxal

OMG. I'm laughing because I can sense you were there and heard just that!!! I know many years later I had more than a few "thanks auntie" moments myself! [and can we not get started on "your love of Negro music" or something much, much more derogatory].

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Lolol yeah Aunt Eulalie would have said that. But Uncle Byrd would have said something worse!!

Then mom makes you play it on that combination HiFi in the living room after dinner while everyone is having cocktails. About halfway through side two Dad says “that’s enough of that” and takes it off. Lolol

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I love "I'm Glad About It".

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Oh yes!! That’s an excellent song. Easily could have charted

I know of 6 tracks AS did. River, stoned soul, reach out and touch, ain’t nothing like the real thing, one more bridge to cross and I’m glad account it

Out of those Ain’t Nothing is the weakest but still makes a fine album cut. It’s perfectly fine if just rather predictable

But this makes up half of an album. Again. Too bad they just didn’t do five or more and have them produce the whole thing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

Oh yes!! That’s an excellent song. Easily could have charted

I know of 6 tracks AS did. River, stoned soul, reach out and touch, ain’t nothing like the real thing, one more bridge to cross and I’m glad account it

Out of those Ain’t Nothing is the weakest but still makes a fine album cut. It’s perfectly fine if just rather predictable

But this makes up half of an album. Again. Too bad they just didn’t do five or more and have them produce the whole thing

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They might not have had enough material, hence so many remakes.

There was no need to do AIN'T NOTHING LIKE THE REAL THING, a song the Supremes had already recorded the year before with the Tempts. I also didn't like their version of REACH OUT AND TOUCH. I thought it was ok when it kept the original waltz tempo but when it became upbeat with additional lyrics, I wasn't impressed.

yeah that might be all that A&S prepared for these sessions. but given the strength of these songs, by and large, they should have said "hey why don't you move forward and pull together a full lp" they might have been able to pull some songs together to fill it out

one thing that is curious is the timing of the recordings

they started doing the duet work in late April 70 and continued until early June. and working with a variety of producers - Clay McMurray, A&S, Duke Browner, with Frank Wilson as Exec Producer.

all of the tunes the group recorded at this time were used on the lp. none of the tracks for Return or Dynamite were recorded prior to the release of Mag 7. so it appears as if they first album was a standalone project and they were looking to see if it would work. With the chart success of River [[which was released after the lp) everyone decided "let's do more" The next recording sessions were early Jan 71.