Does anyone know if any musicians or producers who worked at Motown at one time or another were involved in the Shangri Las very Motownesque single Right Now and Not Later?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJ1oyPeOCo
Does anyone know if any musicians or producers who worked at Motown at one time or another were involved in the Shangri Las very Motownesque single Right Now and Not Later?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJ1oyPeOCo
Others have discussed this song here on Soulful Detroit some years ago and in another thread, I asked as well about the musicians and where the song was recorded. I put it this song up on YouTube but no one had any comments about where the song was recorded. However, I forgot that Robb K. had some very great comments about the song's writer/producer, former Motowner, Robert Bateman:
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Robert Bateman started free lance producing in New York in late 1963. He had gone there for Wilbur Golden and Correc-Tone Records to lease recordings tog bigger new York labels, to earn cash, because Golden had spent a lot on his new studio Bateman had built for him, and sales were not good for the early Correc-Tone releases by Wilson Pickett, James Velvet and Gino Washington [[despite their being excellent recordings).
Bateman used arranger/band leader Richard Tee to re-create "The Detroit Sound" in New York. They did a good job of it. Most of those "Detroit-sounding" recordings
Batemn produced on New York artists were recorded in New York [[such as "I Spy For The F.B.I." by Luther Ingram). I had thought some of "If There is Anything Else You Want" was recorded in Detroit, but later, found out it was recorded in New York, after all [[Which is true of The Bouquets' and all The Shangi-Las' cuts). Bateman used Richard Tee on Piano, Pretty Purdie on drums [[who sounded like Benny Benjamin at times), and the greatest New York guitarists and bass players, to "simulate" "The Detroit Sound". He did go back to record in Detroit [[a few Mary Wells 20th Century Fox cuts, and Luther Ingram on HIB Records -with Popcorn Wylie). But, almost all hisn recordings in 1964-69 were done in New York.
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[The entire thread is here: https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...of-a-good-song)
Afterward, there was still some question as to whether or not this was done in New York- the Motown Sound is done astonishingly well. For my ears, the drums sounded so thoroughly Motown what with the way the drummer hits the snare and follows up with a hit to the tom tom. THAT drum pattern was for me, always the marker for a genuine Motown tune. Fellow Soulful Detroit member Bradburger [[who is always my go to on all things Motown Drums, etc.) felt the sound was just too Motown to have come from anyone else but the Funk Brothers, and that got me wondering even more.
I'm not sure if we'll ever get a definite answer, but my first impression was that this had to have been the Funks- but read the linked thread and it'll give you food for thought.
Thanks for the info!
So this was my first time hearing this song....if the voices were removed, to my younger ears [[I'm 47 years old) I would say this was a Motown track, especially the drums and even the saxophone has "the sound". Just sharing my initial reaction as a first time listener!
Darin
What is the thinking as to why this incredible song just barely cracked the Hot 100 when they had half a dozen or so genuine hits already?
I had brought the question up here and on YouTube. I was hoping to get some responses on YouTube from people who were teenagers/fans back when the Shangri-Las were in their prime. That didn't work, ha ha. I dug up anything I could about the song, which wasn't very much. Something I do recall was an interview done with the Shangri-Las during their run of hits. I believe it was partially quoted in the book Girl Groups: The Story of a Sound by Alan Betrock. Mary Weiss made an astute observation about the group that was giving all the other girl groups pause for reflection: the Supremes. Mary essentially observed that the Shangri-Las and the Supremes were both girl groups, yes, but they were also very different; one of her comments was that the Shangri-Las couldn't get away with wearing all the slinky gowns of the Supremes, but the line that really stuck with me was when she said the Shangri-Las also couldn't get away with all the "ooozy baby baby's" the Supremes did- but then, the Supremes couldn't get away with "Leader of the Pack" either.Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddesper
I don't think Mary was throwing shade, she was speaking with the kind of blunt honesty all teenagers speak with. She knew each group had their audience and each had their "look" and image, which was very true.
After I read that, I had the feeling the failure of "Right Now And Not Later" may have did so little on the national charts because fans were hearing this as the Shangri-Las trying to do exactly the type of song Mary Weiss knew was wrong for them. However, I do believe the song did do well in different regions, so while not a big hit, it may have had it's share of fans depending what state/city you were in.
Hmmmm. I just found a review on the site ALLMUSIC and the reviewer seems to bear out my guess about why the song didn't do so well...
Song Review by Dave Thompson
The Detroit songwriting team of Moseley/Bateman/Hollon delivered up a fabulous slice of mock-Motown for the Shangri-Las' seventh single, in 1965. But the body-swerve away from the group's proven formula of grandiose teenaged dramas proved an unmitigated disaster, as "Right Now And Not Later" limped to a mere #99. Who, after all, needed imitation Tamla when the real thing was pumping out so much great music in its own right and, though "Right Now And Not Later" certainly had the chorus, bounce and charm to take the battle all the way to Motor City, the garage thump of the production then ssent [sic] it careening firmly away again. By no means a lousy record, it was nevertheless a bad choice for the Shangri-Las, as producer Shadow Morton quickly admitted. "Right Now And Not Later" was barely a month old when the group's next 45 was released - the almighty "I Can Never Go Home Anymore".
https://www.allmusic.com/song/right-now-and-not-later-mt0028714038
Don't remember it getting any radio airplay in Florida.I bought the 45 because I liked the Shangrilas.
Thanks for posting, WaitingWatching. I agree about the failed single being wrong for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
Quote:
Who, after all, needed imitation Tamla when the real thing was pumping out so much great music in its own right
I remember one of the Shangri-las saying around the same time that "[the kids] may buy the Supremes but they listen to us." I think we kids listened to both groups! I Can Never Go Home Anymore is my favorite Shangri-la single. [DRATS did I'm Living In Shame three years later :rolleyes:]Quote:
... a bad choice for the Shangri-Las, as producer Shadow Morton quickly admitted. "Right Now And Not Later" was barely a month old when the group's next 45 was released - the almighty "I Can Never Go Home Anymore".
All in all everyone involved in Right Now and Not Later availed themselves well. Added a bit of variety into the Shangri Las song catalog and the group handled the material just fine and still got their personalities across. IN the performance clip looks like the kids in the audience were enjoying the song and performance especially the girl who screams at they enter into second rendition of the chorus--the look on the Ganser twins faces in response to that scream! LOL!
I believe THIS is the article I read too! So they were definitely spelling out in no uncertain terms what made them different from the Supremes. I'd love to find that entire article so find out what set off those remarks. If nothing else, it really does show just how much of the oxygen the Supremes were draining from the Girl Group bubble.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2012
In the book GIRL GROUPS: THE STORY OF A SOUND by Alan Betrock, they include quotes from an old interview with the group but unfortunately, they don't give the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
Re the Supremes, Betty said:
"It's got nothing to do with color. It's when you see the audience grooving and you know everything just clicks, that's soul. They may buy the Supremes, but they listen to us. Because the Supremes come on very feminine and chic, but we come on like the average American girl who isn't just all slinky and sexy. We couldn't do all those oozy 'baby baby's,' but the Supremes couldn't get away with 'Leader of the Pack.'"
thank you, reese, our ultimate source! I have that book buried somewhere. Even if retired, I have way too many books. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
YES, YES, YES! Thank you Reese for finding it and clarifying what I was trying to remember! Why I donated that book to book drive, I'll never know. I need to purchase another copy. There are some fantastic insights in that book. I thought it was really of note that they were talking specifically of the Supremes AND their image. Betty [[I thought it was Mary) did have a point because the Shangri-Las really did have an especially soulful sound that had nothing to do with their color.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Perhaps the greatest homage to the Funk Brothers, I remember the conversation I started regarding this gem years ago when we were discussing great sounding non Motown songs. This was the top of my list. A great song, of course having Bateman spearheading the song made a lot of sense on the spot on Motown Sound.
Glad to see this back on the thread .
Also thought Run Baby Run was a great Funk Brother sound alike, pretty much copied Sugar Pie Honey Bunch first 8 bars over and over again.
nice to see them performing as a quartet...aside from Mary Weiss, they supposedly rotated the 3 other members performing as a trio very often...seems the twins were often in, and Betty was out...seems many people today can only recall the really big hits: Remember and Leader of the Pack...Out In The Street, Train From Kansas City and a few others were really excellent records...including their very dramatic take on the Jay and the Americans hit they titled HE CRIED...the Shangri-las had the same BIG problem the Marvelettes did with imposter groups touring using the name they didn't own.
That was one h@ll of a record by the Shangri -Las. In the hands of the wrong producer, that music would have crossed over to overblown melodrama territory. In the hands of the wrong singing group, it would have crossed over into parody. But this is one of the most moving, emotionally torturous songs done by the group. My favorite part comes right at the fade when Mary delivers the line "Oh my Lord What Have I done?"Quote:
Originally Posted by gman
Mary Weiss sung with such emotional intensity and had the knack of hitting the right note without slipping into parody or being over the top. "Past Present and Future" is another such example.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
You're 100% right. I remember reading that Mary really believed and felt those lyrics and you can absolutely hear it. "Past, Present, Future"- That one is so profoundly moving. I don't know of ANYONE else who could have carried that off without coming off sounding like they were acting as opposed to deeply feeling it. When Mary sings "Maybe some day somebody will hold my hand, maybe someone will understand" you just know she was experiencing those feelings in her own life. "Dressed In Black" is nearly on the same level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21
I grew up during the Girl Group era. Like most of the non-Motown/Philles girl groups who got knocked off the charts by the British Invasion, The Shangri-las stopped getting radio airplay. I wasn't even aware of their later Red Bird singles like Give Us Your Blessings, The Train From Kansas City, Right Now And Not Later, and the beautiful Past, Present And Future until I bought their Greatest Hits album a few years later. The only exception was their excellent I Can Never Go Home Any More single which, out of the blue, got heavy rotation on our local AM station and became a solid hit for the girls. It's a shame they stopped getting airplay, as their singles that went unheard at the time were as good as their hits [[at least in my book).
Hi GaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary
I was looking at this again and I agree it's really sad the group stopped getting airplay. I guess the British groups really made it tough for everyone. Just curious if on your greatest hits collection the excellent post-Red Bird "Footsteps On The Roof" was included. This was when the group were signed by Mercury Records, I believe. It's a good upbeat record that oddly takes the spoken-word passage Mary gives at the end of another song, "Dressed In Black," and repeats it as the middle eight in "Footsteps.". It's a good song that probably nobody heard.
The "British Invasion" was in full swing by the time the Shangri-las came out in the Summer of 1964 with "Remember Walkin In The Sand", a huge Top Ten hit, also TopTen on the Soul Charts!! I never remember Mercury Records getting behind the group, I think the group was having personal problems.