Thanks for that information. Nothing like putting it in perspective.
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Every once in a while, somebody delivers an ass kicking on this Forum.
This appears to be one of those times. Things aren't always the way they appear...............
Not long after "Ooh Child" was released, I went to Ian Levine's studio to buy some Motorcity releases. He told me at the time that he had paid for Mary Wilson to record some more tracks, but that he had so far been unable to get her to do so.
Not meaning to defend anyone that signs contracts and then wants to duck out on them, but those MotorCity recordings were not well received or fondly remembered, nor did they produce any hits.
Probably Mary realized it was another path she shouldn't be going down, it was another mistake and so she thought she could bail................"After all, they are Supremes and honey, we is terrific".
This certainly puts another shading on things.
Quality is another issue, but a contract is a contract. I believe the only reason that Levine did not sue was that the legal costs would have been prohibitive. It seemed particularly ungrateful on Mary's part as, if I remember rightly, "Don't Get Mad Get Even" had a large advert on the back of the sleeve for "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme".
Whaddeva! Anyway, JellyBean should have wrote another song for Mary. One with more words and more meaning. He would have been making still more money from two singers from Michigan! LOL!
Oh oh...........Marv's calling the kettle black!
144 and Roberta...........of course you are right. There is also the issue of "collecting a judgement" and there might have been some issues there.
It amazes me the good information that can come out on this forum. I like it so much more than the real fan forums when you get less real hard information and more butt kissing.
And of course, we always have the troll for entertainment on a quiet day.
Funny thing is, I thought "Don't Get Mad, Get Even" was pretty good stuff at the time! I also liked the Levine song for Martha & The Vandellas: "Step Into My Shoes". :)
Quote from the Dusty Springfield forum: 'My Love Life Is A Disaster' is the same song that Mary Wilson recorded. It's horrible so I hope I never hear Dusty sing it. [Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:55 pm]
http://www.dustyspringfield.org.uk/f...php?f=6&t=1914
Here's what Levine had to say about Martha Reeves:
My relationship with Martha blew hot and cold. One day she was bringing a bucket full of fruit flavoured wine coolers to refresh everybody in the studio, which was truly lovely, then the next day she wouldn't even speak to me. In 1990 I signed a contract with her and paid a large advance to finally complete an album with her, an album that still hasn't been recorded to this day. But I can't help but adore her, even though she treated me terribly. It's hard to stay mad with one of your heroes, and I grew up with her music, and still adore her in every way. We all cried in the studio when she did the vocal on this song, her first recording for ten years, at that time.
Levine also calls Wanda Rogers a "drunk" and an "alcoholic bag lady".
For someone that has so much "love" for the Motown artists, he sure has a lot of shite to talk. Makes me question his credibility. I can understand if you don't happen to get a long with one artist, say Mary Wilson, and I can certainly appreciate his opinion on how she "ripped him off".....but Martha ripped him off too? Doesn't sound likes he's that great of a businessman.
As far as I can remember the only hit in the UK from the 'MotorCity' stuff was in 1991 with 'Footsteps following me' by Frances Nero which got to #17. It wasn't released on MotorCity though, but on Debut Records.
I wasn't a big fan of it, though it was nice to see Frances having a hit.
I had a lot of the Nightmare/MotorCity stuff back in the day but the only song that really impressed me was the fabulous 'Chasing me into somebody else's arms' by Scherrie Payne.
I get confused about Motown revelations. Is the crediblity of the person revealing certain truths only suspect when it is in regards to artist on the Motown roster- other than Diana Ross?
Regarding how good of a business man he is/was and how that goes to his credibilty. One would then also have to ask themselves about Mary's business credibility.
I question what he has to say for several reasons:
How can you gather 50+ former Motown artists in a short amount of time and deliver on all of the promises you've made? I'd like to see what Wilson's and Reeves' contracts stated. And if Wilson and Reeves DID bamboozle Levine, where were the lawsuits? Did Wilson and Reeves pay him back? I see not mention of any of this. What "businessman" opens the door and allows himself to get ripped off and lets them get away with it? So with no follow through, I question his ability, and I call BS. Levine is a collector and tried, unsuccessfully, to collect his Motown "dolls". Something tells me that if you produce thousands of tracks and release single upon single upon single and only ONE charts, that you need to get into another profession.
And in regards to the ONE successful single as mentioned above, according to the artists website: "Her dream was short-lived - after recording constantly and receiving no royalties from Ian Levine, she severed her relationship and pursued other ventures."
RECEIVING NO ROYALTIES FROM LEVINE. Shall we continue to question his credibility. And for the record, this "her" was NOT Wilson, Reeves, or Rogers.
Most of the artists who had releases on Motorcity weren't consistent hitmakers. Anyone rescued from obscurity such as Hattie Littles would have probably been only to pleased to accept an expense paid trip to the UK and a small fee.
Incidentally Brenda Holloway, who had issues with Motown, has only good things to say about her spell at Motorcity.
I doubt if Ian Levine would have had a big royalty bill anyway. When talking in a record shop to a representative from Charly [[who distributed Motorcity after PRT's demise), he told me he couldn't believe how low the sales figures were.
Generally they were completely unknown by the general public. Besides some of those acts weren't that big: groups like the Elgins or the Velvelettes for instance had only one hit in the 60's and the post-Jean Terrell Supremes weren't really a hit in her own time. Collectors and Motown fans knew who they were, of course, but even in England many of those acts had reduced fan bases. And worst of all, the synth-driven sound of all the recordings was awful [[and still is: few people play those records).
In my opinion, these records were complete frauds: I know many people that bought them [[the compilations series essentially) thinking they were actually buying the original songs. Many people bought the cd with "Love hangover" by the*Fifth Dimension thinking they were buying the 1975-1976 ABC version: instead all they had was an awful cover.
just returned from Dj ing the opening set @ DISCO REVISITED/OHEKA CASTLE, with a very friendly and gracious John Jellybean Benitez as the headliner[[he even sought me out to let me know I forgot a CD in the booth after my opening set[[I was his opening 'act")...and I asked him...and YES, he did play the song for Mary Wilson and NO, she didn't like it...would it have been a hit for Mary/..we'll never know, but I can tell you that, as resident DJ at THE FUNHOUSE in NYC, Jellybean was a trend setter who would have promoted the heck out of a Mary Wilson single that he produced, in that then-trend setting club, which might have led to original Disco 92 WKTU giving the single airplay, and then?? ...who knows?...he didn't say that part, I"M saying that part...[[we had a fabulous, jam packed room at Okeha Castle in Huntington, by the way...)
and by the way, for those of you who say that Mary was past her prime by the early 80's, I was on the NY club scene in the 80's, I was a regular at The Ritz, where Cherry Vanilla would do a "Girls Night Out" on a regular basis with NYC club faves like Brenda Bergman and Donna Destri...and another 'past her prime' r&b diva found her footing on that NYC circuit,at The Ritz...her name is Tina Turner,and she'd been around long before Miss Wilson!
It is really impossible to put a finger on the "why" of things.............but the fact is things did not work out for any of the Supremes except Diana Ross. To me that seems very odd today. But a lot more artists break successfully out of a group now than in the past.
I believe all of the Supremes would have a better chance today than in 1970.
Could the reason be that for Berry Gordy the Supremes were not a real group but a mere assemblage around their lead vocalist?
For me the real question is: what did Berry Gordy originally see in that three -or four- girls that were just blossoming teenagers without a strong singing background? I think that the answer is not that obvious [[like it is for Clive Davis and Whitney Houston for instance).
what Gordy saw was an IMAGE that would sell; groups were IN in the 60's, not solo stars;
and iconic stereotypes of fab crosssover black pop stars didn't exist yet, Gordy was busy inventing
them;
you have to put this in the context of the times[[which was the 60's) and I understand that if you weren't
around then [[I was) then you can't possibly get a grip on the pop culture context of that era, and what
at come before; this was a time when rocknroll and soul records were a 'fad', not even popular for a decade
yet when The Supremes came along[[1960) just a few scant years after the whole Elvis thing[[solo stars WERE
big in the 50's, not so much in the 60s,when groups took over, then the 70's once again became solo
stars)
by the early 80's, Tina Turner was a one hit wonder, gone and forgotten by the masses;
as far as the main stream was concerned there was a "Proud Mary" cover version and then nothing;
the MTV kids didn't know her at all, they knew Cyndi Lauper and Madonna;
it was another cover version,"Let's stay Together" which was filmed at The ritz, which Capitol U.S. finally agreed to release in America, that made Tina a national star, not an over nighter which she had been; that led to my pal Kurt Loder ,then at Rolling Stone,seeking her out and writing her book, "I,Tina", which led to the film, blah blah..
but before all that, the U.S. public still knew "Mary of The Supremes" a lot more than they knew Tina Turner; with the right team behind you, at any age, magic can happen...
just ask Susan Boyle..
...and this folks is how some people attempt to rewrite history because of their desperate need to elevate Diane Ross. This practice will never work because the truth is the truth and the facts are the facts. The Supremes were real. They were a real group. All the members could sing. These answers are absolute!