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Don’t know how much of a part they play, but The Supremes are in this new book about girl groups:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/books...-love-me-book/
“The Supremes and other 1960s girl groups have some stories to tell
The new book ‘But Will You Love Me Tomorrow?’ is a treasure trove for music fans, offering a window into life beyond the spotlight”
The article is at The Washington Post so it may be behind a paywall, but you can create a free account to read it…
There's a thread about this book in the main SDF forum, though not many replies and most of the posts are about the 1980s girl group documentary, not the book.
But that thread made me aware of book. I ordered it and was delivered. I've a few other books to read ahead of it, but I did peruse it and there are chapters on The Supremes, as well as other Motown girl groups. Mary was interviewed for this book before she died as well as Peter Benjaminson, and the book quotes Diana Ross from Secrets of a Sparrow, and Cindy from an interview she gave to a journalist some years back.
Here's link to Amazon for the book: But Will You Love Me Tomorrow?: An Oral History of the ’60s Girl Groups: Flam, Laura, Liebowitz, Emily Sieu: 9780306829772: Amazon.com: Books
Thanks for the info!
I heard an interview with the authors on the radio a few days ago when I was flipping through the stations. They mainly talked about the Shirelles and the Ronettes and how their careers were at the mercy of men, especially Ronnie. They did briefly mention the Supremes about how they were always on TV. I didn't hear the whole interview so maybe they were talked about in the part that I missed.
Wow, I had totally missed that previous discussion on this book. Looks great! I will definitely be checking it out. Thanks ejluther!
Just came in to check if it was different to the 80s[[?) book 'Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow' which also told of the 60s girl groups.
It's different. I have both books. The new book is an oral history, and ends about 1970. The 80s book is a conventional history and explores 70s and some 80s girl groups, including hip hop groups like Salt n Pepa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears
I'm gonna hold off on buying this until you guys who do have it say it's worth the read. I don't want to pay $35 to read re-hash.
I am also tired of buying the same Marvin Gaye lps over and over again, so I just stopped.
Here’s an excerpt recently posted on a Motown Forum; I think this book might be worth getting
3.12.2024 #SUPREMES "The truth is, [...], with the exception of some of these girl groups that had these voices connected to them...like, there's no voice like Arlene Smith, and I feel Shirley Alston had a different kind of voice, and Diana Ross, clearly. That's why they all started to say, "What do we need them for?" [...], any other girls could do backup singing for their stuff. But other than that, The Cookies or The Chiffons and all, who was the lead singer? Who knows? And who cares? Even though they had huge hits, you just didn't know who the singer was. Diana Ross had whatever you needed to have." - Melanie Mintz "But Will You Love Me Tomorrow? - An Oral History of the '60s Girl Groups" [[p 309) 2023 [Photo: January 1969]
It's definitely worth getting Rob. I loved it mainly for the Ronettes' part. Some quotes from Nedra that I had never seen before. Estelle's story is very sad. I knew she had mental issues but didn't realize it was as bad as it was.
I was disappointed in the section on the Shangri-las though. Mary and the girls are so, so, so underrated.
And then of course there is a Supremes section and Flo has her own chapter as well. Nothing we haven't all read already though to be honest.
I read the book last fall and enjoyed it very much. For me, it was nice to read about groups that I didn't know much about, like the Bobbettes or the Chantels. Or the later years of groups like the Shirelles and the Vandellas.
I also enjoyed learning more about the later years of group members from the Ronettes, especially Estelle. My last sighting of her was when the group was inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame. You could tell that she wasn't quite herself and she didn't perform along with Nedra and Ronnie. The book shares some insights from her later years, courtesy of her daughter and Nedra.
Note: Some of the interviews included weren't done for this book, something that is noted in the intro. For example, some of the Ronnie Spector and Ellie Greenwich quotes are taken from the home video GIRL GROUPS: THE STORY OF A SOUND. Some of Diana's quotes are taken from SECRETS OF A SPARROW.
Thanks floyjoy and Reese - this is interesting and worth getting. Sad to hear these stories of getting old - but we are lucky to get old - we could have been Flo or Whitney or Michael.
All is not well in Vandella land , per the book.
I've been hearing that for years! Sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
Well I think it’s clear Berry Gordy was a large improvement over Phil Spector and who sang on those records and who got called by what group name despite who sang lead even.
Yeah a lot of times in the Ronettes case, Ronnie would be recording in the studio while Nedra and Estelle were on the road touring with a look alike cousin replacing Ronnie.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobeterob
I listened to an interview with Nedra years ago where she said she would lay down vocals for songs that would end up being credited to the Crystals.
I haven't read this book but I guarantee I will. Is there anything about the Bluebelles [[Patti, and the ladies)?
I’m halfway - there might be a quote or two this far, but nothing much yet.
Sounds like all the girls groups got ripped off - pretty negative about the Brill Biilding Group as well.
Thus far, my take is that Motown was the best or as good as it got
Further to the above, I did a search and there definitely is material on Patti Labelle coming up
i think you're right - motown was certainly no angel and, like most companies, approached things with their own corporate interests first. given the massive success of motown and the years and years of hit records, there's just more money and more artists and more big songs to dig into about accounting and royalties and everything else. the Brill Building was marvelous but it didn't have the total volume of musical output or hits that Motown did. so the stories of motown swindling artists would just naturally be more present that other smaller labels or outfits.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobeterob
but i think for the most part, the contracts motown used were comparable to what other labels were using at the time.
The further I read, I’m left understanding that all the groups were left with nothing - you name them.
As one of the people interviewed said, that left the Supremes because they had the hits and Diana Ross. They did better but it’s clear many of these people found Diana aloof and cold and not wanting to be one of them.
Some of these groups members got $1000 - or nothing at all.
There can't be too many girl-group [[or any 60s group or star) books left to be written.
Almost everyone from back then is dead now.
This should be mandatory reading for everyone on SD.
There are sections on Martha and the Vandellas - yes, for sure, they don’t even like each other.
There is a section on Cindy Birdsong leaving the Bluebelles and joining the Supremes. And some of the interviews are negative in that she simply disappeared without a word to the others.
There’s a section on Flo’s funeral and a section on the Andantes. One of the interviews says the Andantes were on all the songs.
It won’t be what everyone wants to hear, as usual, but they were all there and have their say.
The Vandellas had tons of drama. Always got the feeling Martha and Rosalind don't like each other.
We all put so much emphasis on the Supremes - but really all the other groups made a lot less money and had equal or greater problems. As someone in the book suggests, the Supremes had the hits and Diana Ross; so they generated money and attracted the attention
You've sold me on this book, Jobete. You should be in sales!
The book gave me quite a different perspective
Do you know that Shirley Alston was sued by other Shirelles over the name and she could only use it in smaller letters under her own name?
Ronnie Spector - her terrible time with alcohol and drugs? Phil was an absolute devil.
I also more clearly understand that Larry Marshak was basically able to end up trade marking the name Marvelettes because no one else did anything at all - they did nothing and he developed a business and legally pulled it off. But I kind of knew that story at least.
And the Supremes, Mary and especially Diana - they got off pretty lucky.
Yes, get the book; it’s long; it’s just a series of recollections but they come from the mouths of the people that lived it.
I don't understand Martha saying that Betty and Rosalind left on their own when she wrote in her autobiography that she kicked them out of the group herself. Martha puzzles me and I think she is a bit of an ego-maniac when it comes to the Vandellas.
I felt bad for Rosalind being told that any two girls could sing behind Martha and that she should keep quiet and just do her job. I can understand why she started butting heads with Martha.
Most of these groups have a similar history to the Vandellas - fractured relationships or non existent ones. Often addiction to drugs or alcohol, abusive relationships, financially destitute, and quite often, premature death. And often little ability to help themselves.
The focus is always the Supremes and always Diana Ross - as Jamie Bradford has said, she was famous and she had money so she’s a target - like Beyonce today. And they are studied down to every movement.
But there are many other compelling stories out there - however the reality is that not very many people know and a lot less care about all these other groups - at least the Motown groups get a little attention
I've always thought it didn't make much sense for Martha and the Vandellas to be an entity around the time of the name change. When it was decided to add "Reeves" to the billing, really Martha should have just gone solo. Betty and Roz perhaps could have continued on as the Vandellas with a third member. Roz is one of my favorite backing vocalists of all time. I love her voice, but I'm unfamiliar with it in a lead role. I've heard Betty sing lead as a Velvelette and I was unimpressed, although, because it was a live vocal on a song none of them seemed to be a good fit for, it may not have been an accurate representation of her lead singing abilities. Whatever the case, with either Roz or Betty or a third member on lead vocal duties [[or sharing the load), Martha should have gone her way and the Vandellas gone theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by floyjoy678