Am I the only one who has such an odd reaction to "Things Are Changing?"

https://youtu.be/deS94upJklc

Honestly, I don't know why, but this song makes me oddly sad. I think one day while I was listening to it, it hit me just how serious [[and truly heartbreaking) the circumstances were for many Blacks that such a song was even written.

When I listen to this, there's almost something just a bit chilling and eerie to me about it. Considering the difficulties that many Blacks were going through just trying to find decent employment back then. But the backdrop of the Civil Rights struggles that could be connected to this song probably has been mostly lost on anyone listening to this that didn't live through it.

I was 13 in 1965 and a huge Supremes fan; this was used in a tv commercial and i remember it as a very positive and exciting thing; The Supremes were everywhere; at the drive in with my father with those old silver speakers we would put in the car to hear the movies and there'd be commercials before the movie and I remember the Supremes Coca Cola commercials blasting out of those drive in speakers.. ah, the 1960's!!

As great as the vocals and instrumentation are, my one problem with the song is the condescending lyrics. Basically, if you aint working, it's all your fault. [[That last part has nothing to do with that other Supremes song.:p) The idea in 1965 that everything was alright now is laughable. I get having hope and all of that, but come on. I can't imagine Flo, Diana and Mary singing this without rolling their eyes. Was this ever played on radio? I can't imagine Black stations playing it at all.

it was a public service announcement NOT a single!! and if you weren't around in 1965, then you haven't got a clue.. in the 60's, Ed Sullivan was vilified by many for featuring 'all those blacks' on his tv show.. quit trying to equate mid 60's baby steps that led to where we are right now.. without those baby steps, many taken by Gordy and Motown artists, we might still be living in a more primitive world still totally dominated by white America..get a clue before you launch an investigation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

it was a public service announcement NOT a single!! and if you weren't around in 1965, then you haven't got a clue.. in the 60's, Ed Sullivan was vilified by many for featuring 'all those blacks' on his tv show.. quit trying to equate mid 60's baby steps that led to where we are right now.. without those baby steps, many taken by Gordy and Motown artists, we might still be living in a more primitive world still totally dominated by white America..get a clue before you launch an investigation

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You are the dumbest person in this forum. Seriously, you're stupid. You lack the comprehension and discourse skills that are necessary for proper dialogue between two or more people. Either that or, in your quest to be contrary for contrary's sake, you're typing shit just for the hell of it. I once pointed out your low intelligence in what is now a deleted thread I believe. Perhaps you didn't get a chance to see it and study it and make some...well, um...changes.

You idiot, it was a PSA that was packaged as a promo single. I find it hard to believe the song was ever played on television as you assert in your previous post. Liar. Just making stuff up because you think it sounds good. Were you really 13 in 1965? Did you really go to the drive in? Did you even have a father? If so, why the hell didn't he teach you how to articulate a clear thought, use proper punctuation, or comprehend the simplest of sentences? Ed Sullivan having Black people on his show in the 60s has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said, dumb ass. The fact is that the point of the song suggests that as of 1965, with newly signed civil rights and voting rights legislation, that the only barrier to employment was not race, color, even gender, but is instead the listener who only has to just go out and get what he/she wants. It was bullshit in 1965 and it's bullshit in 2019, talking points for a group of people who have tacked their own success onto hoping to fool the public into believing that discrimination is a thing of the past. It's all bullshit and if it bothers you that I feel that way...good.

Now do you really want to have a back and forth with me about politics and race? You're clearly unmatched. Stick to dressing up as Diana Ross and pretending to fire Florence or slap Mary after writing bad things about you in your living room. Bitch.

It was a television commercial that ran as a public service announcement with the track [[written and produced by Phil Spector, not Motown) playing in the background;several popular groups recorded it for the tv and radio spots; I saw and heard it with my own eyes and ears..nothing contrary about it..now take your meds and have a nice day..discrimination will never be a thing of the past, it's human nature..like those who discriminate against us dumb stupid mortals..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzq4CMClUuM

Come on guys. Let's all take a deep breath and calm down. This forum has been a pleasant place to visit recently. Let's not spoil it.

I'm fine, I just wanted to point out that it was a public service tv jingle reflecting a 1965 mind set, not a song written for public release/consumption as a commercial single.. check out the versions by Jay & The Americans and Darlene Love & The Blossoms in my post right above

Well now I'm VERY sorry to have started this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

https://youtu.be/deS94upJklc

Honestly, I don't know why, but this song makes me oddly sad. I think one day while I was listening to it, it hit me just how serious [[and truly heartbreaking) the circumstances were for many Blacks that such a song was even written.

When I listen to this, there's almost something just a bit chilling and eerie to me about it. Considering the difficulties that many Blacks were going through just trying to find decent employment back then. But the backdrop of the Civil Rights struggles that could be connected to this song probably has been mostly lost on anyone listening to this that didn't live through it.

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I'm not aware of this promo and am now hearing it for the first time so i don't have a larger reference point as far as how it was used etc... to shape my reaction.
But listening to it now , no I don't share your sense of sadness ,Waiting, although I do get what you are saying in that its a shame that there was a time that such a message was even found to be needed.
Then again how great that in 1965 this country was at least in a place that Motown and Phil Spector could work together and find avenues to deliver this .
I hear it as a message of optimism , and while likely it was aimed at blacks , [[ I don't know, was it?) it never states the message as such . There is no mention of race . The message is universal , get off your ass and make of your life what you can. See where you can go. Don't let preconceived constraints stop you.

This exact public service could be played today and have the same purpose without it being aimed at any one or any group in particular. In fact , it needs to be played !!! It's what's great [[ in theory) about this country , the world is your oyster.

The Supremes know of what they preach . They didn't become the Supremes by waiting for a hand out or singing "woa is me" . They hung out at Motown uninvited , made pests of themselves , insisting on their destiny.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE !!


added: re-listening , there is a line about not letting your race or color stand in the way, my thoughts basically remain the same though ......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

It was a television commercial that ran as a public service announcement with the track [[written and produced by Phil Spector, not Motown) playing in the background;several popular groups recorded it for the tv and radio spots; I saw and heard it with my own eyes and ears..nothing contrary about it..now take your meds and have a nice day..discrimination will never be a thing of the past, it's human nature..like those who discriminate against us dumb stupid mortals..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzq4CMClUuM

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No meds needed over here, however you might want to look into something that would help you with your comprehension skills, or maybe you need glasses that might help you read better so that you're not guessing what a particular post is saying and then responding to what isn't there.

We can at least agree on this, and I'll quote you: "discrimination will never be a thing of the past, it's human nature". That's very true, and when you listen to lyrics that say "There was a time when the world was fickle, and it may have been hard to succeed/But times have changed now, and school and training is all you really need..." and go on to say "Your race or color won't stand in your way...", yeah, bullshit, and we know this because of all of the fights Black people and others have had to wage for equality that continues to this day.

My recollection was that the song was first recorded at Gold Star by The Blossoms. To me it's superior to other versions. Not sure how The Supremes ended up covering it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHr8mcWqy9U

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

Well now I'm VERY sorry to have started this...

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You didn't start anything but post about a Supremes song and tell us how the song makes you feel. Nothing to be sorry about there. I responded to your post with my own thoughts about the song and received an idiotic reply that resulted in me doing what I rarely do in this forum. My response had nothing to do with your thoughts, but was instead me taking the opportunity to do something that was long overdue. I get annoyed by people who can't [[refuse to) play nice with others.:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigAl

My recollection was that the song was first recorded at Gold Star by The Blossoms. To me it's superior to other versions. Not sure how The Supremes ended up covering it.

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And it sucks that we don't know how the Supremes came to cover it. We know all the backstage drama and all that nonsense but not nearly enough about the actual music. I am very curious about how the Supremes come into the picture.

As far as sound goes, I definitely think the Supremes have the superior version. I am just not a fan of Darlene Love's voice [[with a few exceptions). She's doing way too much.

And, of all people, Jay Black covered it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzq4CMClUuM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

I'm not aware of this promo and am now hearing it for the first time so i don't have a larger reference point as far as how it was used etc... to shape my reaction.
But listening to it now , no I don't share your sense of sadness ,Waiting, although I do get what you are saying in that its a shame that there was a time that such a message was even found to be needed.
Then again how great that in 1965 this country was at least in a place that Motown and Phil Spector could work together and find avenues to deliver this .
I hear it as a message of optimism , and while likely it was aimed at blacks , [[ I don't know, was it?) it never states the message as such . There is no mention of race . The message is universal , get off your ass and make of your life what you can. See where you can go. Don't let preconceived constraints stop you.

This exact public service could be played today and have the same purpose without it being aimed at any one or any group in particular. In fact , it needs to be played !!! It's what's great [[ in theory) about this country , the world is your oyster.

The Supremes know of what they preach . They didn't become the Supremes by waiting for a hand out or singing "woa is me" . They hung out at Motown uninvited , made pests of themselves , insisting on their destiny.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE !!


added: re-listening , there is a line about not letting your race or color stand in the way, my thoughts basically remain the same though ......

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Well put, Boogie! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a message promoting equal opportunity for EVERYONE whether they're black, white, gay, straight, or whatever the case may be. To prove it, there was a third known version of Phil Spector's "Things Are Changing" by Jay & The Americans [[mentioned above). I have all 3 versions on CD. Oddly, of all the Spector/Philles books available over the years [[and I've got 'em all), the promo recordings by Darlene Love & The Blossoms, The Supremes, and Jay & The Americans are all mentioned, but never in detail. I, too, have been left wondering how Motown got in on it for The Supremes. My only guess is that Phil may have been commissioned to come up with a song to promote equality. It was never released on Philles, and I think it existed only as a Gold Star acetate. [[See replica below)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F133011300704

What happened after utilizing The Blossoms' version is anyone's guess. I can betcha money that Phil never offered the track to Motown nor to United Artists Records. Phil never offered anything to ANYBODY! And I can guarantee that Phil never had the Supremes nor Jay & The Americans in Gold Star to lay down their vocal tracks! That all remains a mystery. But you hit the nail on the head when you summarized the overall message to "Things Are Changing" -- Opportunities to make something of yourself are now available for everyone. Get up off your butt and take advantage of it.

https://motownjunkies.co.uk/2013/08/07/633/

when you listen to lyrics that say "There was a time when the world was fickle, and it may have been hard to succeed/But times have changed now, and school and training is all you really need..." and go on to say "Your race or color won't stand in your way...", yeah, bullshit, and we know this because of all of the fights Black people and others have had to wage for equality that continues to this day.
AGREED!

and , once again, it was a Public Service Announcement , all the versions were recorded at the same time, as part of the government program it was designed to promote by reaching young people via several popular groups. Thank you and GOOD NIGHT!!

I found the following interesting when looking for information about the song. In Anthony Chen's "The Fifth Freedom: Jobs, Politics and Civil Rights In the United States 1941-1972" page 213, basically the campaign for which "Things Are Changing" was created was sponsored by PfP [[Plans for Progress), a program created by the gov't to help with equal opportunity employment [[my simplified way of explaining it). Basically it was an early version of Affirmative Action which was coming under fire from civil rights organizations and protesters who questioned whether anything was really being accomplished by this. Anyway, according to Chen:

"the purpose of the campaign was to convince African Americans, especially young African Americans, that they stood a better and better chance of being treated fairly when they went looking for a job. It's centerpiece, organized by the Advertising Council, was "Things Are Changing", a pop song written by Phil Spector and performed in various versions by Diana Ross and the Supremes, the Blossoms, Jay and the Americans, and Julio Angel and Lucecita. The production of the song was financed by the Rockefeller Foundation to the tune of a quarter million dollars, and by January 1, 1966, almost three hundred radio stations across the country were playing it regularly. A television commercial was also produced as a part of the campaign...Only the least sophisticated observers could miss the obvious point of the campaign: There would be less demand for reform the more that African Americans believed that things were already starting to change for the better..."

So while this political background of the song is new to me, it reinforces my original opinion that the lyrics to the song are condescending and insulting. The premise of the song is that Black people [[according to Chen that is exactly whom the song was targeted toward) need to be told to, as has been written in a post here, "get up off your butt", which of course is an old trope used to suggest that Black folks are lazy and unmotivated and that is the only reason for any problems we face. Fuck you and the racist horse you rode in on, I say to people who think like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

It was a television commercial that ran as a public service announcement with the track [[written and produced by Phil Spector, not Motown) playing in the background

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My apologies for calling you a liar about this.

apologies accepted; and I apologize for whatever previous posts from the past that you had issues with.. and again, Good Night!

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Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

Well put, Boogie! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a message promoting equal opportunity for EVERYONE whether they're black, white, gay, straight, or whatever the case may be. To prove it, there was a third known version of Phil Spector's "Things Are Changing" by Jay & The Americans [[mentioned above). I have all 3 versions on CD. Oddly, of all the Spector/Philles books available over the years [[and I've got 'em all), the promo recordings by Darlene Love & The Blossoms, The Supremes, and Jay & The Americans are all mentioned, but never in detail. I, too, have been left wondering how Motown got in on it for The Supremes. My only guess is that Phil may have been commissioned to come up with a song to promote equality. It was never released on Philles, and I think it existed only as a Gold Star acetate. [[See replica below)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F133011300704

What happened after utilizing The Blossoms' version is anyone's guess. I can betcha money that Phil never offered the track to Motown nor to United Artists Records. Phil never offered anything to ANYBODY! And I can guarantee that Phil never had the Supremes nor Jay & The Americans in Gold Star to lay down their vocal tracks! That all remains a mystery. But you hit the nail on the head when you summarized the overall message to "Things Are Changing" -- Opportunities to make something of yourself are now available for everyone. Get up off your butt and take advantage of it.

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don't worry Gary , someday you and I will disagree about something and we can really go at it! LOL!
[[ but let's never get foul mouthed , or make it personal ok!!!)

I appreciate your Philles background , on this . I presume GOLD STAR was Phil's own studio? I wonder why Motown wasn't approached directly on this project , why Phil? maybe it had to do with his LA location and who knew who. Motown Junkies asserts that this was the only "usable fruit" of the Spector / Wilson attempt to collaborate. You probably know more about that , or I'm wondering how is it known that this bit of music is the result of their collaborating? Also perhaps Brian caught wind of this available project first and instigated it?

In these open question segments Diana has, how is it that none of these little known parts of her career are ever asked about by these hardcore fans, questions where new information would be of value. In Mary Wilson interviews too. It's one of the few avenues to gain information and they may have much to reveal!!

Somehow Berry Gordy saw value in participating in this message [[maybe it was purely monetary lol!) What definitely DIDN'T happen was , Berry and crew didn't run from it saying ,"we'll have no part in this lying sack of potatoes garbage." They likely saw the value in encouraging the black youth at that time to respond to opportunities in society that were increasingly opening to them . [[ no point in opening doors if no one comes a knockin') It was an awareness campaign. A message of direction.

For the record , my dad never said "get off your white butt and mow the lawn!" . He didn't need to. Everybody has a butt, and everybody needs to get off them. The concept is an equal opportunity provider.

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

In these open question segments Diana has, how is it that none of these little known parts of her career are ever asked about by these hardcore fans, questions where new information would be of value. In Mary Wilson interviews too. It's one of the few avenues to gain information and they may have much to reveal!!

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I suspect that if one did ask such a question the ladies probably wouldn't know the answer. In their minds, this recording might probably have been just another session squeezed in between tv rehearsals and a photo session before hopping a plane to the next city.

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

don't worry Gary , someday you and I will disagree about something and we can really go at it! LOL!
[[ but let's never get foul mouthed , or make it personal ok!!!)

I appreciate your Philles background , on this . I presume GOLD STAR was Phil's own studio? I wonder why Motown wasn't approached directly on this project , why Phil? maybe it had to do with his LA location and who knew who. Motown Junkies asserts that this was the only "usable fruit" of the Spector / Wilson attempt to collaborate. You probably know more about that , or I'm wondering how is it known that this bit of music is the result of their collaborating? Also perhaps Brian caught wind of this available project first and instigated it?

In these open question segments Diana has, how is it that none of these little known parts of her career are ever asked about by these hardcore fans, questions where new information would be of value. In Mary Wilson interviews too. It's one of the few avenues to gain information and they may have much to reveal!!

Somehow Berry Gordy saw value in participating in this message [[maybe it was purely monetary lol!) What definitely DIDN'T happen was , Berry and crew didn't run from it saying ,"we'll have no part in this lying sack of potatoes garbage." They likely saw the value in encouraging the black youth at that time to respond to opportunities in society that were increasingly opening to them . [[ no point in opening doors if no one comes a knockin') It was an awareness campaign. A message of direction.

For the record , my dad never said "get off your white butt and mow the lawn!" . He didn't need to. Everybody has a butt, and everybody needs to get off them. The concept is an equal opportunity provider.

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HaHa! You're so funny! Okay, John! It's a deal! In fact, I'll hang up my boxing gloves just to be sure we keep the peace! 🥊🥊

Oh, gosh, no. Phil Spector didn't own Gold Star. Located at 6252 Santa Monica Blvd. near the corner of Vine Street in Hollywood, the studio name was a combination of the names of the two owners -- [[Dave) GOLD and STA[[n) R[[oss). Phil Spector had to book studio time there just like everybody else.

GOLD STAR photo:
https://images.app.goo.gl/QrGCwr3NvFvyFsCD

A QUICK PEEK INSIDE GOLD STAR:
Phil Spector & Larry Levine [[Engineer)
https://images.app.goo.gl/r7c9c95K4XcfvuJ3A

Thanks for the compliment, Boogie. Like Motown in 1964, Philles has been in my blood since late '62. And I've made a point to learn all I could about both. Despite that, however, I'm left just as much in the dark and puzzled as you are about about Phil's "Things Are Changing". So little has ever been discussed about it regarding how it came about, how Motown became involved, etc. Personally speaking, I will say that, no matter who sings it [[Darlene, Diana, or Jay), the recording delivers a positive message encouraging everyone to take advantage of your opportunities before they pass you by.
Musically speaking, however, the recording was way sub-par for Philles' standards. By 1965, Phil had gone way overboard on the echo to the point where even I -- "Philles"/Motown Gary -- was annoyed by it. Previously exciting records by The Crystals, The Ronettes, and Darlene Love -- all of which contained the perfect dose of the Wall Of Sound -- were a thing of the past. Phil's subsecquent productions were drowning in echo, the worst example being "Things Are Changing" which, to my ears, was a bunch of annoying cacophony. That may be why so little has been written about it. Just my thought on it. Of the three versions, my favorite remains the original by Darlene Love & The Blossoms, although it would have sounded better in a lower key. Phil had poor Darlene's voice stretching to its limit.

Since posters have been mentioning Gold Star, I came across two very interesting videos, each of which interview the Gold Star owners. I find these fascinating:

DAVE GOLD [[Gold Star Co-Owner) What a sweet and wonderful guy!
https://youtu.be/wKHzh4F86iQ

LARRY LEVINE [[Phil's Poor Engineer!) & STAN ROSS [[Gold Star Co-Owner)
https://youtu.be/hWWc6Cq4MnM

Here ya go, John, and all who are interested. Enjoy! It doesn't answer your questions, but it's still very enlightening!

Come to think of it, during the mid-'60s, Motown was on a kick providing Public Service Announcements sung by its artists. In addition to The Supremes take on "Things Are Changing", Brenda Holloway recorded "Play It Cool, Stay In School", and Smokey Robinson & The Miracles recorded "I Care About Detroit". If there were more, I'm not aware of them.

BRENDA HOLLOWAY
"Play It Cool, Stay In School"
https://youtu.be/qgsITQifSqA

SMOKEY ROBINSON & THE MIRACLES
"I Care About Detroit"
https://youtu.be/n05wK0Ja4M0

I'm surprised that Motown didn't provide PSA's by Martha Reeves & The Vandellas, The Temptations, The Four Tops, and Stevie Wonder. Wouldn't it be cool if they're hiding somewhere in the vaults!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

But listening to it now , no I don't share your sense of sadness ,Waiting, although I do get what you are saying in that its a shame that there was a time that such a message was even found to be needed.
Then again how great that in 1965 this country was at least in a place that Motown and Phil Spector could work together and find avenues to deliver this .
I hear it as a message of optimism...
This exact public service could be played today and have the same purpose without it being aimed at any one or any group in particular. In fact , it needs to be played !!! It's what's great [[ in theory) about this country , the world is your oyster.

The Supremes know of what they preach . They didn't become the Supremes by waiting for a hand out or singing "woa is me" . They hung out at Motown uninvited , made pests of themselves , insisting on their destiny.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE !!


added: re-listening , there is a line about not letting your race or color stand in the way, my thoughts basically remain the same though ......

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I like your thoughts on this very much. I was born just as all of this was happening, but I do know my father told me there were issues with being black and being hired for jobs around the time of this recording. It wasn't just with white collar office jobs, even factories could be very intent on not having any blacks at their company. It could be pretty bad. Not just down in the South but just as bad up North. So color and race could be a very big obstacle.

I say again, I do like your view of this- let's be optimistic and get out and make it happen now that doors were being opened. And to have The Supremes as one of the groups to do this says so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

You didn't start anything but post about a Supremes song and tell us how the song makes you feel. Nothing to be sorry about there. I responded to your post with my own thoughts about the song and received an idiotic reply that resulted in me doing what I rarely do in this forum. My response had nothing to do with your thoughts, but was instead me taking the opportunity to do something that was long overdue. I get annoyed by people who can't [[refuse to) play nice with others.:cool:

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I appreciate that, RanRan! I do always enjoy your posts, VERY MUCH. I was sort of saying that half tongue-in-cheek, but also half seriously, so I'm glad to see your response and am enjoying seeing so many others responding too. I've thought about this song for years, and it's incredible what the internet can do. For years, there was pretty much no one else who shared my love of all things Motown and the day I found this forum, it was like: "Where have y'all been all my life!"

As always, I really enjoy your remarks and insights!

I'm surprised that Motown didn't provide PSA's by Martha Reeves & The Vandellas, The Temptations, The Four Tops, and Stevie Wonder. Wouldn't it be cool if they're hiding somewhere in the vaults!

Phillies/Motown Gary: Martha Reeves & The Vandellas' Back To School promo is included on their Spellbound/Lost & Found double CD.

As for Diana Ross & The Supremes' participation, I have sometimes wondered if it was encouraged by Lynda Bird Johnson, the elder daughter of the then-current president. Lynda Bird was quoted in Diana Ross & The Supremes' concert booklet at the time, saying, "Y'all are my favorite group and I love y'all so very much..." It's possible that when President Johnson told his daughters about the project, Lynda Bird sniffed, "Why didn't they have Diana Ross & The Supremes do a version? They're much more popular than Jay & The Americans, for instance, and their involvement could give the project increased visibility and credibility..." Lynda Bird was much more serious and politically savvy than her younger sister Luci Baines, who was known as "Watusi Luci."

"Watusi Luci!" LOL!!! You're right, Ben. Martha did do that [[truncated as it is). I was only counting the full-length songs, which I probably should have specified, but that's okay. I had temporarily forgotten about Martha's "Come And Get These Memories" PSA. Thanks for the reminder! [[BTW, I love Martha's "Spellbound: Lost & Found CD set. When I first got it, I couldn't stop playing it!)

MARTHA REEVES & THE VANDELLAS' PSA:
https://youtu.be/PP_M40dX-zs

Your take on Lynda Bird having suggested to her father, the President, that The Supremes cover a version of "Things Are Changing" may very well be true. Nothing has been written to prove it otherwise, especially since Lynda Bird was quoted in The Supremes concert booklet. Nothing like having a dad who who has the power to pick up the phone, call Motown, and pull a few strings!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reese

I suspect that if one did ask such a question the ladies probably wouldn't know the answer. In their minds, this recording might probably have been just another session squeezed in between tv rehearsals and a photo session before hopping a plane to the next city.

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You could be right reese, it could go down like that .

But imagine if someone did ask Mary about it and instead she answered , "You know I haven't thought about that in decades , but now that you bring it up , boy can I tell you a story! .......":):cool:

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

I like your thoughts on this very much. I was born just as all of this was happening, but I do know my father told me there were issues with being black and being hired for jobs around the time of this recording. It wasn't just with white collar office jobs, even factories could be very intent on not having any blacks at their company. It could be pretty bad. Not just down in the South but just as bad up North. So color and race could be a very big obstacle.

I say again, I do like your view of this- let's be optimistic and get out and make it happen now that doors were being opened. And to have The Supremes as one of the groups to do this says so much.

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Thank you Waiting ! I think having The Supremes deliver this message was perfect!

I am amused by the intro , where Diana speaks to the "girls" about bringing their men to her because she's going to educate them about job opportunity. NOT both of you come so I can educate both of you about job opportunity , .... just the men.

I guess they weren't entirely "woke" about equal opportunity just yet.....


Update : good news ! Listening more closely , yes Diana says bring your man to me , but she then says "And I'll tell YOU about equal opportunity." A mutual invite !!:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary

HaHa! You're so funny! Okay, John! It's a deal! In fact, I'll hang up my boxing gloves just to be sure we keep the peace! 壘壘

Oh, gosh, no. Phil Spector didn't own Gold Star. Located at 6252 Santa Monica Blvd. near the corner of Vine Street in Hollywood, the studio name was a combination of the names of the two owners -- [[Dave) GOLD and STA[[n) R[[oss). Phil Spector had to book studio time there just like everybody else.

GOLD STAR photo:
https://images.app.goo.gl/QrGCwr3NvFvyFsCD

A QUICK PEEK INSIDE GOLD STAR:
Phil Spector & Larry Levine [[Engineer)
https://images.app.goo.gl/r7c9c95K4XcfvuJ3A

Thanks for the compliment, Boogie. Like Motown in 1964, Philles has been in my blood since late '62. And I've made a point to learn all I could about both. Despite that, however, I'm left just as much in the dark and puzzled as you are about about Phil's "Things Are Changing". So little has ever been discussed about it regarding how it came about, how Motown became involved, etc. Personally speaking, I will say that, no matter who sings it [[Darlene, Diana, or Jay), the recording delivers a positive message encouraging everyone to take advantage of your opportunities before they pass you by.
Musically speaking, however, the recording was way sub-par for Philles' standards. By 1965, Phil had gone way overboard on the echo to the point where even I -- "Philles"/Motown Gary -- was annoyed by it. Previously exciting records by The Crystals, The Ronettes, and Darlene Love -- all of which contained the perfect dose of the Wall Of Sound -- were a thing of the past. Phil's subsecquent productions were drowning in echo, the worst example being "Things Are Changing" which, to my ears, was a bunch of annoying cacophony. That may be why so little has been written about it. Just my thought on it. Of the three versions, my favorite remains the original by Darlene Love & The Blossoms, although it would have sounded better in a lower key. Phil had poor Darlene's voice stretching to its limit.

Since posters have been mentioning Gold Star, I came across two very interesting videos, each of which interview the Gold Star owners. I find these fascinating:

DAVE GOLD [[Gold Star Co-Owner) What a sweet and wonderful guy!
https://youtu.be/wKHzh4F86iQ

LARRY LEVINE [[Phil's Poor Engineer!) & STAN ROSS [[Gold Star Co-Owner)
https://youtu.be/hWWc6Cq4MnM

Here ya go, John, and all who are interested. Enjoy! It doesn't answer your questions, but it's still very enlightening!

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Good stuff Gary. I watched the Dave Gold video with him in a theatre perhaps showing The Wrecking Crew film? He does seem like a nice guy, satisfied by his life.
I want to say, as often as I'd been on Hollywood Blvd., I vividly recall passing that studio. I'm sure i did, but not so sure i actually noticed. ha!

Phil Spector is without a doubt one of the most fascinating figures to emerge in the music business . Brilliant. Maybe we could start a thread somewhere focused on The Wall Of Sound away from this ?? I'd like to know more , it'd be a learning experience for me and I think we've about worn out Meco !! lol!!

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Originally Posted by boogiedown

thank you waiting ! I think having the supremes deliver this message was perfect!

I am amused by the intro , where diana speaks to the "girls" about bringing their men to her because she's going to educated them about job opportunity. Not both of you come so i can educate both of you about job opportunity , .... Just the men.

I guess they weren't entirely "woke" about equal opportunity just yet.....


Update : Good news ! Listening more closely , yes diana says bring your man to me , but she then says "and i'll tell you about equal opportunity." an mutual invite !!:cool:

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I LOVE IT!!!! I hadn't really thought about the spoken part but you've got me all broad smiles here! Let's hope the world is a lot more woke about this stuff!

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

Good stuff Gary. I watched the Dave Gold video with him in a theatre perhaps showing The Wrecking Crew film? He does seem like a nice guy, satisfied by his life.
I want to say, as often as I'd been on Hollywood Blvd., I vividly recall passing that studio. I'm sure i did, but not so sure i actually noticed. ha!

Phil Spector is without a doubt one of the most fascinating figures to emerge in the music business . Brilliant. Maybe we could start a thread somewhere focused on The Wall Of Sound away from this ?? I'd like to know more , it'd be a learning experience for me and I think we've about worn out Meco !! lol!!

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If you guys do start a discussion about Phil and The Wall Of Sound, let me know. I've been reading two books on this subject. VERY fascinating to say the least. Sonny Bono of all people tried to tactfully tell Phil the DJs were growing tired of the Wall Of Sound. The feeling was that it wasn't growing but getting stale. Phil didn't like hearing that one bit. This was around the time, I think, the Ronettes released either "Is This What I Get For Loving You" or "Walking In The Rain." I'd love to get in on a talk about how Phil seemed to have squandered a lot of his artists' careers. Also, the failure in the U.S. of "River Deep, Mountain High", which actually is a huge favorite of mine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

Good stuff Gary. I watched the Dave Gold video with him in a theatre perhaps showing The Wrecking Crew film? He does seem like a nice guy, satisfied by his life.
I want to say, as often as I'd been on Hollywood Blvd., I vividly recall passing that studio. I'm sure i did, but not so sure i actually noticed. ha!

Phil Spector is without a doubt one of the most fascinating figures to emerge in the music business . Brilliant. Maybe we could start a thread somewhere focused on The Wall Of Sound away from this ?? I'd like to know more , it'd be a learning experience for me and I think we've about worn out Meco !! lol!!

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Thanks, John. I knew you would enjoy it.

You were in the same audience with Dave Gold while watching the Wrecking Crew video! Wow! How cool is that! Come to think of it, Dave mentioned that very "Wrecking Crew" viewing in the interview link above! Did you get a chance to personally talk with him for a minute? Oh, man, I would love to have sat down with him over lunch or cocktails and ask him about those legendary Phil Spector sessions [[like the one where engineer Larry Levine accidentally erased a finished master of an all-day Philles session they had just completed! Phil literally freaked and hid -- yes, HID -- up under a desk until Larry was finally able to piece it back together. Despite all the revolutionary records Phil & Larry made together for Philles, Phil's nervewracking demands for perfection wore on Larry's nerves until he finally had a breakdown. He simply couldn'work with Phil any more. I think there was a 10-year period where they didn't even speak because of it! [[Phil felt betrayed; Larry's nerves had HAD it.) How I would love to have heard Dave Gold verifying some of this behind-the-scenes stuff. I can just see him with that charming, sweet, comical grin of his!

You walked right past Gold Star and never noticed it? Shame! Ha! [[Don't feel bad. If it's any consolation, I, too, have been known to drive or walk right past something and not see it, thus being accused of "going through life with blinders"! Of all the nerve!) If it rings a bell, Boogie, there was a deli right next to Gold Star where the Wrecking Crew used to hang out during their free moments. Now, see, I had included a photo in my above post which clearly showed the outside of Gold Star AND the deli front which I thought would provide a perfect landmark for folks like you who had actually spent time in that area. Although Gold Star is long gone, I had hoped the picture of the deli might at least ring a bell as to where Gold Star once stood. As luck would have it, as soon as I posted it, some selfish soul disabled the photo. Here's another link showing Gold Star. Let's see if it works.
https://images.app.goo.gl/yG1vXkBEvcWAorbc7

A thread devoted to Phil Spector and Philles Records, you say? Hmmm.... Sounds like quite an undertaking... but it is right up my alley! Yeah, let me think about it. Heaven knows, I've got all the information in my possession. Plus a lot of cool Philles memorabilia, too! It's just a matter of putting it all together. Let me see what I can come up with. Give me some time, okay? Thanks, John.

Meco? Yes, we rode him pretty solid for a while there! We'll give him a break! 😎

Later, Gator!

Ah! I see the Goldstar photo worked this time! That's the deli to the right of Gold Star.

I remember driving past Gold Star on Santa Monica Blvd. in West Hollywood in my younger years. It was a surprisingly nondescript building but I had already read up on how significant it was. I was in awe of how many great pop/rock recordings were done there. Every time I hear "He's a Rebel" by the Crystals I picture the Gold Star building. I was so shocked, saddened and mad when I drove by and saw I believe a burger place there! It should have been designated a historical landmark.

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

If you guys do start a discussion about Phil and The Wall Of Sound, let me know. I've been reading two books on this subject. VERY fascinating to say the least. Sonny Bono of all people tried to tactfully tell Phil the DJs were growing tired of the Wall Of Sound. The feeling was that it wasn't growing but getting stale. Phil didn't like hearing that one bit. This was around the time, I think, the Ronettes released either "Is This What I Get For Loving You" or "Walking In The Rain." I'd love to get in on a talk about how Phil seemed to have squandered a lot of his artists' careers. Also, the failure in the U.S. of "River Deep, Mountain High", which actually is a huge favorite of mine.

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Don't worry, Waiting.... If we do a "Salute To Philles", you'll know! Can't promise when. To do it right, there's a lot to it. Just thinking out loud, would you be willing to do the story part if I provided the music? I also have a lot of neat Philles memorabilia in my possession, i.e., Phil Spector's yearbook. [[Not his personal copy, but the year that he graduated. And, yes, he's in there a few times!)

Yeah, as a friend, Sonny tried to gently warn Phil about what the new crop of radio DJ's were saying about Phil's music. Offended, Phil "shot the messenger", so to speak, and had nothing more to do with Sonny who, as it turns out, meant nothing more to Phil than an anonymous background singer and a go-fer.

A radio DJ did indeed complain that The Ronettes' "Walking In The Rain" was just more of the same old stuff to which I immediately wrote off the complaint. I remember October '64 like it were yesterday. "Waking In The Rain" was a refreshing new sound for Phil. It was a slow, beautiful ballad, and Ronnie did a great job on it. The record even won an award for Larry Levine's thunder-storm sound effects. The DJ's "same-old, same-old" complaint was just sour grapes because Phil refused to bribe the DJ's with Payola. Phil's belief was that the radio DJ's should WANT to play each new Philles release based on Phil's excellent track record. And that was true with the veteran DJ's. They eagerly looked forward to each new Philles record. The problem was that the veteran DJ's were now reaching the age of retirement. When replaced with the new, young crop of 'entitled' DJ's, their attitude was, "Who does Spector think he is -- expecting us to play his records without compensating us for it?" Phil still refused to stoop to the level of Payola, so, unfortunately, Philles' hits ratio suffered as a result.

And, yes, the failure of "River Deep - Mountain High" on the U S. charts [[#88 Pop and then nothing) discouraged Phil to the point of closing Philles' doors soon after. What he considered his greatest creation had failed. It sure wasn't for lack of trying. The recording session was full of tension. Phil needed Tina to do take after take after take. It got so hot and tense in there, Tina had to strip down to her bra in order to continue. [[And yes, Ike was present at the session. The agreement was that if Phil produced Tina, Ike would have to stay out of it. These were Phil's sessions. Period! And rightfully so.) There was also an amazing abundance of positive electricity in the air at the "River Deep" session. Wrecking Crew members have reported that the music being created that day was so loud and so magnificently powerful, the Gold Star studio walls were literally shaking!!! Now, that's powerful, Buddy!

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Originally Posted by lucky2012

I remember driving past Gold Star on Santa Monica Blvd. in West Hollywood in my younger years. It was a surprisingly nondescript building but I had already read up on how significant it was. I was in awe of how many great pop/rock recordings were done there. Every time I hear "He's a Rebel" by the Crystals I picture the Gold Star building. I was so shocked, saddened and mad when I drove by and saw I believe a burger place there! It should have been designated a historical landmark.

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Lucky, after Dave Gold and Stan Ross sold Gold Star, it burned. There was nothing left to save for posterity. In the Dave Gold link I included above, the interviewer mentioned that it's a pity that Gold Star couldn't have been saved and turned into a museum like the Motown Museum. It really is a shame.