My bad I guess I should have looked more closely to your post.
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The supremes performances I just can't watch anymore and I can't stand are when they do You're Nobody Until Somebody loves you. Diana Ross is trying to sing an uplifting positive message to the audience and those nasty Supremes are interrupting with smart ass, uppity comments and making fun of her or stepping in front of her trying to hog the attention. Or giving shady looks to each other. This drives me up the wall. If they didn't like Diana Ross singing such a positive message they should have quit the group. I no longer watch those performances, I can't take it. I want to jump into a time machine and give Diana Ross a hug and tell her she will be free of those no good player hating supremes.
I haven’t seen a lot of animosity - it was very hard to watch one member become a major star - so of course there would be some jealousy.
But I think the performances were good and very enjoyable and I don’t feel anything bad watching them.
while you're entitled to you opinion, it seems that you might be interpreting things incorrectly. the act was totally scripted and those ad libs were planned as part of a comedy routine. If you listen to the More Hits By The Supremes Expanded Edition. it contains one of the first performances of You're Nobody and it contains similar joke lines. The often told story of these being some sort of rebellion by Flo during the Copa shows simply can't be true. Now maybe Gordy decided to NOT do the comedy routine at the Copa - maybe he thought this was too fancy a place. I'm just speculating on that though. Because although the stage patter was a bit different in the early version, it seems they planned this all along.
as for glares or withering looks onstage, i have practically every available fan video of the group. been trading these since the 90s. I'm not aware of any clip in the 60s where the girls acted unprofessionally.
Of course i was enchanted by the original trio, but Ms Ross had recently left the group when i first began to sit up and take notice of that voice. I was still a kid when i bought Remember Me and I'm still waiting on 7" vinyl at their time of release. It was after that when i began to dig into the past and discover the Supremes music.
I have never cared much for Mary Wilson's voice, but i did buy her Motown album when it was first released. It didn't impress me back then and it certainly does not impress me now, but i am pleased for Mary's fanbase that the expanded edition is finally here. I am sure her fans will find it a more pleasant experience than i do.
I will always enjoy listening to and watching the Supremes performances, But it is Ms Ross as a solo star who will always be closest to my heart. Hope that explains it sufficiently.
‘you’re right, the patter was scripted and loved by audiences. These three were not exactly Noel Coward, Groucho Marx and Tallulah Bankhead - but they did a good job with You're Nobody - but it appears no one ever worked with them about timer and staying in character, if not for the entire show at least for the bit. This is evident in the wonder May 1969 performance of the song where Sullivan is adding some adlibs which flustered Diana a bit and showed that Mary needed some fine tuning as well. My knowledge it was in every single performance of the COPA for five solid years. I believe it was still in the act occasionally when Jean joined but I don’t know if they ever did it at the Copa.
If you watch my beloved YCHL on Sullivan, You not only get my favorite of their own material performances, the brilliant Earring catch and toss, but there is intrigue in that some fans see Mary deliberately stepping into Diana’s mark forcing Flo to move right so there is room for Ross to join the trio in the middle. It appears that Mary is allowing Diana absolutely as little room as possible, and then begins to hit her in the leg with her tambourine. If you look very closely, right before the close-up of ross ends and cuts back to the trio, you can see her eyes flash down to Mary’s tambourine and, to some people, including me, I see that quick flash of anger that She ioccasionally displays. There are those Who think We’re just looking for trouble, but I swear we’re not. Well, I’M not anyway. Anyway, it starts at 1:35 - See what you think… there’s no right or wrong answer.
https://youtu.be/Itn438i30hk
I wonder if we're being trolled. I'll not abide by any poster referencing 'nasty Supremes': each of the Supremes was a talented and determined lady who contributed greatly to American popular culture.
oh that's a fun performance to examine
at 0:50 you'll notice that Diana had moved a bit too far stage right. she quickly glances down and then shifts a little to stage left. my assumption is that she slightly walked passed her mark on the stage floor. she needed to be at the mark so that she'd be lined up for the camera shots when they start the 2nd chorus at 1:04
when Diana walks over to M and F, her pic cord is to stage left of Mary because of Diana's starting stage position. as Diana moved into the middle of the trio, she casually tugs the cord along but without being too overt with it. just gathering up more of the wire so that it's ready for her next stage movement
as Diana centers herself with the trio, i see mary and flo shift slightly while they're dancing in order to allow Diana in. but they can't spread too far apart because they need to be in the close up camera shot at 1:16. if they spread out too far, part of M and F would be cut off. I do see Diana glancing down at the end of the chorus but i don't see anything of a problem. actually i'd guess that she's looking to where her cord is as her left hand had previously been tapping against her hip. so i think she was looking to check where the cord is and start pulling it towards her
during verse 2, while the camera is focused on Diana, mary at some point steps back over the mic cord so that it'll be in front of her and ready for diana's next movement
when they hit the bridge and diana walks away from the group, her cord is now in front and will avoid any tangling under mary's heels
and then of course the wonderful earring scene! lol
I was always just mesmerized at how amazing this performance was that I never noticed any of the subtle stuff lol. Every single time I see this clip I feel that way especially that shot of Diana slowly walking to join Flo and Mary in the forefront.
I did notice as Diana gets up to them, Flo looks over at her almost as if she forgot Diana was to join them and steps over quickly. Let's be honest here Diana was so skinny she really didn't need that much room to begin with 😄
Also I said earlier that Flo had walking pneumonia for Hollywood Palace but it was actually this Sullivan appearance as she caught while in the Orient I believe and this Sullivan clip was just days after they returned.
Flo's awkwardness was part of their overall appeal. M and D were just perfect in their stage movements. like perfectly beautiful little wind up dolls. Flo was the folksy personality within the group and that helped make them relatable. she might slightly flub a movement or something.
there's a spot in the ending of the R&H special when the whole cast sings Mountain Greenery together.
Petula walks over the group and holds off the song and when the girls "three crazy people together" Diana makes a goofy movement as does Mary who also points to F and D. Flo looks over and breaks a huge smile. It's such a natural reaction and wonderful. you get a sense that these girls are the best of friends and D and M are having fun hamming it up and Flo giggle at her silly friends.
and at the very end at 1:36, when the Sups do their last line D or M does something again and Flo looks over and smiles. I can't exactly tell what they did but it's definitely noticeable.
I don't think i'd refer to these moments as "breaking character." For me, breaking character would be Flo saying "oh for fuck's sake - shut up!" lolol or being mad or something like that. Flo's character was the down home girl that really was your sister or friend from school. even if she was famous and rich. it was part of the 3 personalities of the original Sups that Mary talks about and how together they created the perfect personality
Florence was nothing short of Supreme when she was in the group/ performing. I doubt anyone looking at her thought she was folksy. I also don’t think anyone watching her thought she wasn’t as smooth as Diana and Mary. Fans nit pick, magnify things, and spin narratives.
I was just getting ready to mention this. Near the end of MY ROMANCE, when they're singing the line "My most fantastic dreams come true," Flo and Diana seem to be sharing a secret laugh. Not sure what it was about it but it is nice to see those moments because there is always so much concentration on the sad stuff.
There is another short spot at the end of the show when they are singing MOUNTAIN GREENERY. Right at the end of the song, the Supremes are supposed to sing a quick line between those of Bobby Darin and Petula Clark. They do sing it but Flo kinds of gives a smiling look to Diana and Mary that she's amused by something. Again, really small but nice to see.
i certainly don't mean it as disparaging. Flo had a relatability even when highly glamorous. fans and writers mention how she was always still approachable even at the height of fan. and her dry sense of humor with her stage lines. she was beautiful and glamorous but still "a regular person" versus an untouchable star
Flo definitely very animated during this program. there's a lot of wonderful group interaction and interplay. again they seem to really be enjoying things. not that they looked dull an listless on other programs. it's just they're even more perky here
i know they'd done a lot of tv by this point but weren't those mostly regularly scheduled programs? sure they did specialty songs on Red Skelton, Dean Martin, Sullivan, etc. But in summer of 66 they seemed to go to the next level.
Wasn't R&H the first tv special they appeared on? so that was a big deal. and in July when they were on Mike Douglas, they were co-hosts. not just guests. and then in Sept they were off to the Orient - the first motown group to travel there. wonder if they knew Berry was hiring the cameraman to film the trip? wasn't that Orient footage intended for a tv special too?
i’ve always wondered if diana was being directed to move over or if she was off her mark initially but it doesn’t look like it As she is framed perfectly in front of that window- or I think that the lighting wasn’t correct because she moves over where is her face is in for light.
There is certainly a lot to look at here! Of course the earring couch is just the most brilliant thing ever, but I also love how she gets rid of it during her bow. There’s no one like her and there never will be!
i think if Diana had stayed at her spot at 0:48 instead of shifting at 0:50, then she possibly wouldn't have been lined up right for the first group shot. she might have been more hidden by Flo. it wouldn't have been disaster but it would have impacted the moment just the same. And you're right about lighting too. all of this was carefully and clearly planned out during rehearsals so that during the live broadcast it would be perfect.
YCHL is my all time fav Sup song so i've watched this clip a billion times. I got a great quality bootleg vhs tape back in the 90s of every Sup appearance on Sullivan. loved it!
given the amount of times i've watched and examined this clip, it seems to me that this has the most of the little tidbits and nuances like we've discussed. sure there's the Mike Douglas clip where diana messes up the Symphony lyric or when she slips during the tap dance routine later on Sullivan. but this segment has so many little things to notice :)
I have no intention of re-watching Supremes performances to look for negative shit that I personally don't believe exists. I've said in this forum before, as others have said as well, that it's a testament to the group's professionalism that when things may have been tense backstage, on stage, and when the cameras were rolling, no one would have ever known. However, I'm going to have to pull up the performances of "Hurry", "Lover" and "My Romance" and the others and check out these cute little moments you all have noticed.
In regards to Flo's awkwardness, I've never thought of her as that way or thought she came across that way. But every now and then, of the three of them, she appears to be the one who missteps the choreography more than the other two, and I always attribute that to the fact that it is said that Flo could not dance. Which brings me to some of her moves which, while not out of step with the choreography, are not as rhythmically smooth as the other two. Well shit, I guess that is awkward isn't it? Okay, maybe Sup has a point. [[Ugh, how I hate to say that!:p)
Of the three of them I've always seen Mary as more of the girl next door. She's bubbly and bouncy, full of life, fun. Flo comes across very regal, as Diana put it. She's the adult in the group, the real woman. There's a fun-ness about her, but also an air of she doesn't get too carried away, like Mary does.:cool: She's a woman of the world. And Diana seems to embody them both, with an extra added chicness and, believe it or not, a bit of coyness to her. That's how I see them, anyway.
[QUOTE=RanRan79;620977Well shit, I guess that is awkward isn't it? Okay, maybe Sup has a point. [[Ugh, how I hate to say that!:p)[/QUOTE]
Haha!!! Victory is mine!!! lololol
i see the originals as:
Mary - the prom/beauty queen. the most popular and nice girl on campus with an infectious smile and just likes everyone. her warm contra alto is a smooth and luxurious as her personality. Her smoothness comes through in her perfectly executed choreography. always on the beat and flawless
Flo - statuesque. stately and commanding, especially when she hits those high final notes of a performance with arms up in the air. there's a warmth to her personality which makes her feel like she's a good friend of each and every person in the audience. But her impish smile and sparkle in her eye makes you know that she isn't a little girl. or like in Good News, you KNOW there was a celebration once she and her man were alone.
Diana - the bubbliest personality. those eyes are literally hypnotic. and the most electric smile known to man. all of this combined with her eagerness means she's the shining diamond set against the richest most luxurious backdrop of M and F.
one appearance where Mary dosent look happy at all - "My World Is Empty" on "Anatomy Of Pop"..maybe its just me and shes projecting the mood of the song - if she is shes doing it well..but Ive always thought she was unhappy on this particular taping
You wanna see Mary looking unhappy, watch their Shindig appearance from March 1965. In the three songs they perform, I don't think she smiles once which is unusual for her. This was right before they left for the UK tour and I remember Diana saying they weren't getting along at that time and had to regroup before they left.
Do note there have been more than a few "new" members or ones with very low post counts lately who join conversations as if they've been in them for the last 11 years. I don't think we're in another "dianaross.freeforums.net" situation... yet. Remember that fun?
Yes and it's so obvious. At this point there isn't even a desire to hide it and people interact with them like they don't see it. And they "all" have one thing in common. I believe there's a way of putting a stop to this crap but leadership prefers to let it be. Would be interesting if IPs were banned and see which names never crop up again.
Oh man, I remember that. I googled my screename once and a post in that forum came up that accused you and I of PMing each other to complain about the drama, or something to that effect. Lol
I backed off because it was just too much. I have to apologize to some of the regulars who campaigned for the DRATS section separate from the main Motown forum. I could never understand why they were so pissed that there were so many Supremes and Diana Ross threads. If they didn't care, don't read the thread. And if there's a topic they'd rather discuss, then start it and mind ya business. I get it now. I see some of the none Diana Ross threads have gotten lost in the midst of the billions of Diana threads. I tried to bring some of them back to the forefront but they were quickly knocked back down by a plethra of new Ross threads and I just gave up. With Marv gone, who at least would make sure Mary threads were well represented, and Mary now gone, limiting what can be discussed in relation to her, I guess this is the new normal. "Diana Ross And Maybe A Little Supremes" could be the new name. I love Diana but there's only so much I can discuss about her in one sitting. There's nine Supremes. Would be nice to have more varied discussions.
Well there were people in SD who complained that accounts had shown up on that crazy site with their screennames. But what I was referencing was the time I Googled my screename and it came up in that other forum where someone had written that me and Thanxal were complaining to Ralph and PMing each other about all the mess that was going on. Something like that. But no, as far as I know nobody "stole" my name and used it over there.
I have somewhere the book called " a really big show" all about the ed sullivan show it's full of black and white pics of many of the well known performers who graced the sullivan stage
I love the symphony lyric mishap because, like the ear ring catch, it shows Ross’ innate, cunning, show biz survival instinct that I admire so much. Plus, she looks amazing - that’s my favorite hair up until you can’t hurry love sullivan hair. I didn’t notice the mic cord until you pointed it out so thank you! I love that performance so much and I remember it so well - I loved seeing them with the tambourines And the smile on Flo’s face when she’s doing that little twist movement with her hips. I often concentrate on her when I’m watching a clip because I find little things that she does that just make me love her even more. Another favorite moment, is when Diana is singing forever came today I need Sullivan and that little face she makes after “your touch” and “ said you needed me” I can’t tell you how much I love that little face she makes, and this is after she comes in too early after the clapping break and catches herself. She does that on The Boss on Carson, muffs lines lipping and then smiles a big smile. Mary and Diana are off during Bringing In The Sheaves and Mary kicks the back of Ross’ foot..... It’s live performance. I used to do a lot of theater And there were often little mistakes. In Charlie Brown one day, Lucy came in doing the wrong scene it took me forever to get her back on track. We had done that scene 100 times and this time she thought it was our scene in the second act. Once in a while in the Fantasticks, during this one song we would do a turn and do this step and I would realize that I was on the wrong foot. I’m sure I did that half a dozen times. What I admire about the girls is that 99% of their mistakes were on brand new material End it isn’t always easy to learn a song, new blocking, costuming and last minute stage directions in just a few days. But it’s fun!