This is my favorite song on the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album. I think it showcases this line up at their best in the recording studio.
What is your favorite song on their last album?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vclh1RGVWNw
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This is my favorite song on the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album. I think it showcases this line up at their best in the recording studio.
What is your favorite song on their last album?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vclh1RGVWNw
my fav as well. could of been a single imo. i also loved You Are The Heart Of Me
i think had the ladies added these songs to the live shows instead of those broaway numbers, things may have changed
oh gosh trying to like it. I'll give it a couple more spins on the car radio. Off hand , sounds contrived ... " sweet dream machine ", who talks like that ? Sort of the same criticism I have of "Floy Joy ".
And those piercing vocals , approaching the high end of Patti Labelle's sound that makes me cringe . Doesn't sound anything like Diana , or Jean for that matter . Maybe at this point they would've benefited by calling themselves "The New Supremes".
Just my initial take on it while having my morning coffee....
It’sThe album has always been a favourite of mine. I have always thought it way ahead of its time, sounding contemporary some 45 years laterQuote:
Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21
“We Should Be Closer Together”, “Sweet Dream Machine” and “You Are The Heart Of Me” are for me the stand out songs on the album and could have been potential singles.
Have you seriously never referred to anyone as your ‘sweet dream machine’ Boogie.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogiedown
I agree about calling themselves The New Supremes. It could have made all the difference.
I agree that they should have rebranded themselves The New Supremes--that way people wouldn't feel like it was false advertisement AND it would add some excitement to the equation. Just like how the Jackson 5 rebranded themselves The Jacksons--everybody knew who they used to be but calling themselves the Jacksons was like they had come of age and it was exciting. Anyway, I recall as kid playing the High energy album to friends and most of them loved it--especially Don't Let My Teardrops. But virtually all of these same friends HATED MSS. They said it was "screeching." I loved it, especially We Should Be Closer Together but they needed to bring Mary's voice louder in the mix like they did on Teardrops. That whispery lead vocal doesn't translate on the radio.Honestlly people, a lot of people just didn't like Susaye's voice. I loved it, though, but only in the background.
I think Susaye’s voice added a lot to the overall sound of the group. When she was controlled such as on “High Energy” And “Come Into My Life” she sounds really good. I have never really been a fan of her solo albums.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyC
Its been reported that Berry Gordy himself was impressed with the songs from MS&S and with good reason. I think Mary being about to leave the group had a lot to do with it’s failure.
”Driving Wheel” also was not a special enough song for a lead single. The albums cover pic was classy and elegant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
ah yes now that you insist , I do recall using that term a time or two! .
listened some more , nice seductive tune ... .
Airy and hollow sounding , horny overtones ... liking it morewith third listen [who's the male doing the coaxing at the end ?? Pedro ?:p]
Interesting. I can honestly say with hand on heart I have never referred to anyone as ‘my sweet dream machine’. I’m kind of pleased at least on of us has though.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Boogiedown
Im glad your liking it a little more upon further listening. It’s one of those songs that gets in your head and stays there. Slick, seductive and timeless.
Other then Mary’s few solo lines, i can’t really hear her at all singing background. Only Scherrie and Susaye come through.
I think it's a tie between "Dream" and "You Are the Heart Of Me" for me. I still think "Sweet Dream Machine" is one of the best cuts from the Scherrie years. They knocked that one out of the park. I don't know how radio friendly it was, but it seems like it would've done very well in the clubs. As for "Heart", Mary's talents are on full display.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21
I agree about "Driving Wheel". I like it, it's a really good song, but I don't think it had any type of "wow" factor. "Dream Machine" had it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
As for Susaye, I think she added an excitement factor to the harmony [[in the studio). Not a fan of "Come Into My Life", but I love "High Energy" and don't understand why it failed to chart.
I think as with “Driving Wheel, “High Energy” is a solid album track that did does not necessarily leap out as a single. Having said that, it’s really hard to gage just what from those final two albums would have provided that allusive pop hit back in 76/77Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Hindsight is everything, but “Teardrops” and “Sweet Dream Machine” were perhaps the best candidates for the job.
What is it you don’t like about “Come Into My Life”?. It’s a song i think was a little ahead of its time and one I really like. Especially the end part.
I remember back to those days and I was quite excited as the Supremes sounded as fresh and contemporary as any other artist out there but while still maintaining a variation of their signature sound. For High Energy, as much as I love the title track they did pick the right song for a single. I always felt You're What's Missing in My Life would have been an excellent second choice. Had they decided to expand the Supremes into ballads, there was nothing stronger than Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You. For MSS, the wrong song was chosen as the first single. I always felt Let Yourself Go was similar in sound to IGLMHDTW and should have been the first single, Sweet Dream Machine was an excellent choice for a second single. There were many choices, though, with I Don't Wanna Be Tied Down a popular choice since it also espoused similar thoughts to their previous single and if you wanted to expand You Are The Heart Of Me was another standout ballad and Susaye's Come Into My Life certainly would have evolved the group into a new sound. I just remember the fanclub asking what they should follow up Driving Wheel with and the consensus was Let Yourself Go, which really should have been the first choice. Driving Wheel had a great sound but a clunky message and the hook wasn't anything to catch your attention like Let Yourself Go or I Don't Wanna Be Tied down did. Sweet Dream Machine, though, was a standout and superior track. MSS was clearly an overlooked classic by the mass public.
The MS&S album is choc full of so many commercial, contemporary sounding songs it makes you wonder what the hell happened. It seemed to be well promoted with posters, tv appearances and trade adds a plenty. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99
i think they pulled together an amazing set of songs here. the Hollands really seemed to be on the right track with a very polished and they were experimenting with different intriguing ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
IMO the reason it bombed was:
1. the very strained group dynamics. we've all talked about the Pedro and Mary problems and i think things were coming to a head here.
2. the decline of returning the group to motown management - according to Mary's book, berry wanted the group to be managed by motown again. My guess is the strong performance [[especially in the dance clubs) of Walking opened motown's eyes to the idea of the Supremes being the company's primary disco act. but to do so would mean they needed to ditch Pedro and get their act in gear [[both figuratively and literally). when mary didn't opt to do this, i think motown really washed their hands of the group and started to look elsewhere, like High Inergy
3. wrong lead single - Let Yourself Go should have been the lead as, from a sound perspective, builds closely on the sound of Walking. similar dynamics, mood and style.
4. mary's decision to leave the group - the lp was only out a month or so before mary announced her departure. that would have killed any promotion
couldn't agree moreQuote:
Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99
my guess is that when Walking was a huge club hit, HE was considered as a follow up but I think mary and pedro would never have allowed a single on a member only a couple months in the group.
the rest of the HE is very good but I'd guess that the Hollands said "hey now that we have a "sound" with Walking, let's pull together something new and fresh to build off that."
another issue with the MSS was a much more haphazard chart history. with the HE set, Walking was released a month prior to the album and there was clear push on that song. there was some initial chart action of the title track and the lp as a whole. but across the country, the clubs were ALL spinning Walking. Also the action was simultaneous. everyone was playing it at the same time
with the MSS, Wheel was released on 9/30 and then the album was available in October. then the chart action was MUCH more all over the place. some cities had Wheel, Let Yourself and Love I Never Knew charting. some had just Let Yourself and Love i Never Knew. Miami seemed to like LYG and Dont' wanna be tied down.
Plus you had the introduction of a Billboard National Disco Chart in Sept. Wheel started out by itself on that for a while and then LYG and LINKYCF joined it.
Honestly, "Teardrops" is the only song during the Scherrie years that I have any confidence in becoming a big hit. Could it have hit #1? Maybe, especially considering some of the schmaltzy ballads that were huge at the time. But I definitely think it could've been a top 10 hit. Other than that, as I've said before, I just don't really think the group was recording anything that would really wow the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
As for "Come Into My Life", I think I don't care much for it because I don't care much for Susaye's voice. Had Scherrie sung it, I'd most surely feel differently.
OMG, how could I forget "Let Yourself Go"? Add it, along with "Dream" and "Heart", in a three way tie for my fav cuts on the album. I loved LYG from the first listen when I bought the GH and Rare Classics comp. It's such a feel good song. I've also thought it a fitting final single for the Supremes, instead of the usual love song. It was fun and a fitting way to say goodbye, I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99
While one can ponder if this would have had any effect on the group's success one way or the other, the fact is that it's a horrible business move on the part of any artist to allow the record label to also work as management. There should always be a separation of power there. Sure, Motown managed the Supremes when they were a force to be reckoned with in the 60s, but there was way too much double dipping and conflicts of interests. For Mary to accept the offer it would have proved that she had learned nothing from the past, which would have been a real shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
Well Pedro wasn't cutting the mustard as manager, and as you rightly point out going back to Motown would be rife with conflict of interest issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
So...were there any quality managers/management firms interested in the Supremes in 1976?
I'm not a big fan of Let Yourself Go. The music/production strikes me as Vegas influenced Disco. I prefer Sweet Dream Machine and Come Into My Life amongst the disco songs on MSS. Musically I love You're My Driving Wheel, but the lyrics are bleh! Don't Wanna Be Tied Down starts out strong, but the "don't wanna be, don't wanna be" chants get old for me--song is too long. Length is also an issue with Love I Never Knew You Could Feel So good. Though probably that's not as much of an issue on the dance floor.
i knew we were friends for a reason ran! i LOVE let yourself go too. I had bought the lp in a sell it again store and enjoyed the album right away. LYG was a fav and i also really liked Sweet Dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
i played LYG all the time in college. It became a big hit at the fraternity house dances because it is so infectious and fun.
in Mary's book, during the later Jean years, she said Allen Carr was interested in maybe managing the Supremes. now there could have been an interesting ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21
and i'm not saying that by returning to Motown for management would have solved all of the group's problems and returned them to #1 on the charts. but it's interesting to guess what might have happened
The timing of the announcement of Mary’s departure did her and the album no favours.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
She would have done well to wait and see if the MS&S album proved successful.
Perhaps if “”You Are The Heart Of Me” had been the first or even second single and charted reasonably well, we might have been spared that rather lame disco album.
see i think We Should Be Closer is a much more compelling song than Heart Of Me. i don't care for the orgasmic gasps. otherwise it's a perfectly fine song. but Closer seems more interesting
i think any reasonable success scored with either “Teardrops” “Heart” or “Closer” might have prompted Motown to reconsider which musical direction to take her solo career in.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
frankly i'd say that Mary's solo album should have focused on:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
1. some sexy love ballads. maybe 2 of them
2. some mid tempo songs like Can We Love Again, If You Let Me Baby [[the unreleased song from the RO sessions) and You're What's Missing. maybe 3 or these
3. maybe 1 or so fast paced disco
4. a couple funkier songs like Pick Up The Pieces.. maybe 2
“Pick Up The Pieces” is funky lolQuote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
Considering the contemporary nature of those final Supremes albums with HDH, it’s hard to fathom how Diana ended up with such dated sounding fodder as “Fire Won’t Burn”, and “You Build Me Up”. She might have scored substantial hits given songs such as “Heart Do The Walking” or “Let Yourself Go”.
lol well it's sorta funky lol.
and i totally agree! the Holland content for Diana is really subpar IMO
I wouldn't call "Pick Up the Pieces" funky, but I think "You Build Me Up" is a real funky number. "Fire Won't Burn", even though I like it, lacks the quality of the Supremes' stuff with the Hollands, but I think "You Build Me Up" and "Summetime" are as good as anything they did with the disco Supremes.
I think with good reason those HDH songs were never released. Even as a young teenager back in 78 they sounded rather dated. “Build Me Up” being the best of the bunch. “Summertime Lovin” sounds like Minnie Mouse on acid and “Fire Don’t Burn” could be an outtake from “Reflections”.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
The final pair of Supremes albums sounded cool, fresh and contemporary imo.
To me, sweet dream machine is a standard run of the mill disco music - no better or worse than a ton of other similar tracks. I like Scherrie on it, and I enjoy it enough when it’s on, but I don’t believe it would’ve done anything on radio, it might have gotten club play, but there were so many dynamic songs to compete with it, it might not have.
you are the heart of me, in my opinion, without that corn ball insert moaning, could’ve gone all the way period. Mary’s vocal is perfect for the song, and I can very clearly Imagine it on the radio. I never judge Supremes or Diana record by what I hope it could’ve done, I always think of what was out at that time and how it measures up. I think this measures up I would’ve been a whole new career direction for Mary.
It’s clear that Motown had total say in which singles were released. Both “Teardrops” And “You Are The Heart Of Me” would have sounded terrific on radio with “Driving Wheel a very poor choice for lead single. I wonder how much influence Pedro And Mary actually had at the time regarding singles?.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
Dated? Reflections? Ollie check your ears.:p What in the world sounded like that in the late 60s? "Fire Don't Burn" aside, which I feel was at best an album cut, "Build" and "Summertime" sound like contemporary late 70s disco. [[So does "Fire".) I'm personally convinced that she would have had far better luck with those two songs as singles than "What You Gave Me", a song I also really like but don't believe it was ever going to be a hit for her. I think "Build" works just fine as is, but do think the pitch of "Summertime" might have been a wee bit too high for Diana and the tempo maybe a tad too fast. So she sings very high, but out of her comfort zone, and the pace does make it sound as if she's sometimes having a difficult time keeping up. Tweaking these and I think the song was a winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
I think any given song deserves a full examination, and that includes pondering your personal expectations, which can be as simple as liking the song and hoping it does well, to comparing it to what was happening at the time of the music scene and supposing whether or not a given song had what it took to make it, realizing that at the end of the day, the reasons for what made or broke a song was ultimately very arbitrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
Clearly none. I know there's a story that floats around the forum that Mary and Pedro vetoed Motown's decision to release "It's All Been Said Before" in favor of "He's My Man", but I've never bought into that. I've never known management nor an artist at Motown, including a Supreme, to be able to have say so in what singles were released. Not to say that there couldn't have been input. I think Diana's desire to have "Reach Out and Touch" be her first single was a decision by Gordy to let her have her way after everything she had done for him. Who was gifting Mary and Pedro anything? Besides, if they were making the decisions about the singles, the Supremes' discography during the Scherrie years would be full of Mary led singles, especially "Teardrops" and "Heart of Me". The truth is that Motown heard something in "He's My Man" that they thought sounded like a winner, as they did with all the singles that followed it. Mary and Pedro had a lot of influence over the Supremes, but singles wasn't one of them, I'm willing to bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
That’s an interesting take, but I usually don’t let my personal taste influence what I feel what was radio friendly. Generally, when I look at failed singles, I can see why they didn’t hit. Not always, but pretty consistently. Although I must admit, the yeeech factor I experienced when first playing endless love did influence my prediction of its very early demise. I was shocked when I even heard it once on the radio, and still don’t get it. I couldn’t have been more wrong on that one if I tried. But, looking at Ross’ failed 70s singles, none surprised me. They just didn’t fit the current playlists. I did think remember me and it’s my turn would go higher. Ditto 70s supremes - the failures were obvious, but I thought River deep and Nathan Jones would go top ten.
that being said, my first listen to love child, ANMHE, touch me in the morning, up the ladder, upside down and love hangover pushed all my buttons at once and probably did influence my prognosis for them. Halfway though those and I was in a trance.
I agree there’s an arbitrary factor to pop adds back in the day, but very few chances were taken. Slick, sometimes banal production, clever or easily identifiable lyrics coupled with impressive vocals got adds. There were anomalies like rubber duckie and the bubble gum songs of the 60s, but even then, once one hit, the others suddenly belonged.
I honestly think all those HDH songs are really weak. My ears never lie lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Think what Donna Summer was releasing at the time then think “Summertime Lovin” I might have included “Build Me Up” on the Ross album in place of the gold plated dated “Together”, but that’s about it.
I do agree that with new lyrics, arrangement, instrumentation and a lower key, “Summertime” might have had some novelty value.
i don't deny that i'm probably biased. obviously i love the Sups and MS&S is right near the top of my fav lps from the entire Sup/DR/Mary Wilson discography.
I find the album to be anchored by several super hot dance tracks and some lovely ballads. But then interspersed are some really experimental songs. Come Into My Life, Sweet Dream, and [[to some degree) We Should Be Closer took some of the unique sounds and styling of HE [[the song) and took it to the next level. That's fine if it's not your cup of tea. but I don't really know of anything in mid 76 that sounds like this.
I Feel Love from Donna wasn't released until summer 77. Love To Love you was in 75. in between was her seasons of love material [[and some other). L2L was a totally revolutionary piece as was IFL. Then Diana's Love Hangover. again, something so totally new.
in Sept 76, You Should Be Dancing was the top dance track and that again raised the bar. the Bee Gees totally amped things up with this one. the bass and production just explodes. they're taking things to a new level.
from a dance club perspective, I could see Driving Wheel following this. or maybe LYG