Thanks, Andy! And, in case you don't know it, you have one of greatest jobs I can imagine...cheers!
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Thanks, Andy! And, in case you don't know it, you have one of greatest jobs I can imagine...cheers!
Kenneth or Ross..........one of you asked why Diana is not accorded the same respect as Stevie [[doesn't get called Steveland) and Marvin [[doesn't get called Gay).
The answer, jokingly and seriously is because..........."she's the greatest star, she is by far"! And so the detractors go crazy [[as you see).
And as others that followed her have found, for example, Madonna and Beyonce, this is what happens.
As Mae West apparently said once: "I have not met, nor have I any intention to meet, this Miss Madonna.
Mae West commenting on "Miss Madonna" made me laugh out loud. Mae died in December, 1980 and Madonna didn't hit the national scene till two years later. Mae loved the beat of R&B music, and in fact Van McCoy wrote music for her last film, "Sextette." West was 86 when she starred in this film, based on a play she had performed on stage. A young Timothy Dalton played her husband in this film, which totally ignored the many decades difference in their ages. Tarred and feathered by reviewers at the time of release for this, West could now be heralded at the original "cougar." In my forthcoming biography "In Search Of Mae West, I am going to examine the musical aspect of her career and the jazz musicians she insisted back her in musical numbers in her early 1930's films. Readers will be astonished how forward thinking Mae West was, by including as many African American performers in her films as she could, given the reluctance of studio bosses to do so. Racism ran rampant in Hollywood then, and some may argue that it still does.
Many people on this site have asked if there are other pictures of the Supremes performance at the Cave supper club in Vancouver, Canada, circa 1967. I am going to post them, but it may have to be on a one by one basis. I met someone who had seen the original Supremes at an earlier Cave performance and had a wonderful story to share.
The west end of Vancouver, located in the downtown area, adjacent to the world famous Stanley Park, saw a huge building boom of high rise towers in the mid 1960's. A fan who lived in the Georgian Towers threw a cocktail party for the Supremes in his apartment, and Mary, Diana and Florence attended. Evidently their fur coats were placed in a bedroom and somehow, a cigarette accidently started a fire, which was quickly put out by the quick minded host with ice cubes. The fur coats luckily were not harmed.
The next evening at the Cave, during one of their songs, Florence squinted into the audience and noticed that their host the previous evening was sitting at a table near the stage. She elbowed Mary and whispered loud enough for the fans sitting at the table to hear, "there is that guy who saved us from the fire last night!" The three women sang the rest of that song to the table, delighting the fans. In the early days, the three were a lot of fun and obviously enjoyed the love and hospitality of fans. Of course those days are l-o-n-g over, but what a magical thing to have happen. I love their harmonies on C&W to this day!Attachment 4547
Mary and Cindy leaving the stage after a set at the Cave in Vancouver, Canada circa 1967.
Attachment 4549
I call her Miss Ross.
Penny:cool:
The Supremes' Vancouver date at the Cave is significant: that's when the opening act was, under another name, the group that became Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers. Mary and Flo stayed for the after-hours show, when the Cave became a hip nightclub called the Elegant Parlor and the Vancouvers transformed into the local main attraction. Mary and Flo liked what they saw and heard, called Berry Gordy, who flew in to see the band – and signed them. M&F = talent scouts.
and thanks to Mary & Flo finding Bobby Taylor, Bobby went on to find;....THE JACKSON 5!!!.....wow
Hello hwume;
I have to admit I never personally saw the Supremes at the Cave in 1967, but I did see Little Richard perform there in December, 1969. I still have the receipt for a Coke for $1.25 [[!!!) in my scrapbook, which absolutely shocked me as being expensive as a 18 year old.I was a student in Edmonton, Alberta at the time, and flew in to see Little Richard.
I stayed with a friend whose girl friend was a "dancer" at the " Parlor," which I must have confused with the "Elegant Parlor."
An online search uncovered that The "Elegant Parlor" was located in the basement of a ballroom located near the corner of Davie Street and Burrard in the westend. The ballroom underwent many transformations and has been a gay disco for the past several decades. One of the original members of the Vancouvers states, "The Elegant Parlor’s landlord had sold
the building it had been in, so in early 1969 I moved the Parlour to the back of The Shanghai Junk at 205 East Pender Street and Main in Chinatown." Clearly there really wasn't much about either "palor" that could be truly considered "elegant!"
Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers may have opened for the Supremes at the Cave in 1967, but their record "Does Your Mama Know About Me," wasn't released until 1968. I will try to find a review or advertising pertaining to The Supremes' Cave performance to determine if in fact there was an opening act. It is my understanding that Mary and Flo saw The Vancouvers perform during an earlier Cave booking in 1966. Unfortunately this era of Vancouver musical history is not well documented, but I will go through old newspaper files. I can state with confidence however, that the Cave and the Elegant Parlor are two entirely different establishments.
Vancouver, being so close to Seattle had musical acts that did not tour much in Canada, and R&B acts like James Brown and the Ike & Tina Turner Review played venues like "Isy's Supper Club," which was competing with the Cave. In the later 1970's Isy's morphed into a strip club.
I've never had a reason to look up this information before, but thanks to this thread, I'm glad now I did, because this is interesting stuff, which unfortunately gets buried in the sands of passed time. As a relatively new and "junior" member of SDF, I appreciate the wisdom and knowledge of long time members and am committed to posting correct information as my contribution. Thanks for your acceptance!
This photo appeared recently in the Vancouver Sun to mark the 100th anniversary of the newspaper's publishing run. The B&W photo reproduction seemed underexposed to me, and when I made a digital copy, it didn't look very good. I played around with the the digital copy on iPhoto, and came up with this. I didn't take the original, but as a tribute to the artistry of Sun photographer Ken Oakes, as seen in the other shots of this concert, I humbly offer this up. Hopefully he won't be offended. ATTACH]4553[/ATTACH]
You are correct - it may have been an earlier date at the Cave. Taylor & the group arrived at Motown in summer 1967.
Exactly! Mary and Bobby Taylor have both retold that story many times. Just to think, had Mary and Flo not "discovered" Bobby & the Vancouvers, we may never have had "The Jackson Five", Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Jermaine Jackson, "Cheech & Chong" or Rae Dawn Chong [[ok, ok, I may be stretching things abit with that last one hehehehehehe!).
R. Mark Desjardins, Bobby Taylor talks about this time and meeting Mary and Florence in detail in a fairly recent interview from Hong Kong that was link to this site a while back. I'll look for it and repost it if I find it.
Marv
Marv, that would be wonderful if you could find a link to that Bobby Taylor interview. Cheers. Mark
The Supremes at the Copa is a gem of an album, it wasn't just about Diana it was about the three of them all of them contributed to the success of that engagement and the album as well, it was their most successful live release as the Supremes at #11 it wasn't the end of the Supremes at this point it was just beginning, and Diana's emergence of course continued to spark with each new release afterward. Diana has said in interviews that people started pitting us against each other picking their favorite supreme which eventually would be the start of supremes rivalries. Diana has said some very nice things in her 1976 Diana CD release about her partners Mary & Flo and it should always be cherished fans will always try to tear it apart.
I wonder if any video was taken at these shows, Would be nice to have a cd/dvd package.
Those are some wonderful pictures of the group. Hopefully we'll be treated to more. Thanks for sharing those.
supremes at the copa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCicdozffM
I just searched the WOMR site - there's 2 shows available to listen to from the 'Nightflight' series. Go to podcasts/shows/nightflight and you'll find them. There isn't a direct link on the stations homepage. The broadcasts are certainly worth listening to. Steve.
jeez, listening to all of these show tunes with a cheesy house band reminds me why i could never figure out their attraction back when barry gordy had this grandiose plan for his acts. what i would have given if the live albums had been recorded in detroit with the snake pit crew and all they sang was one motown hit after another. no wonder i switched to jimi and sly! sorry this stuff never did a thing for me, and sounds even worse in retrospect!
The results may not have been too different. The Four Tops recorded at the Roostertail; I believe the Tempts first live LP and the Vandellas' live LP both were recorded in Detroit. If you give a listen to the "hits" from these LPs, they all seem rushed at frantic paces. Berry Gordy did succeed with his plan to appeal to audiences who bought more than 45s. If he hadn't I doubt that we'd be here discussing the music today.
I'm still working on who those musicians might be. Marvin Marshall on guitar? I don't think it's Tony Newton on bass. He played some big venues with most of the Motown roster, but he never mentioned the Copa as far as I recall. It surely isn't Jamerson. Nate Watts? Ralphe Armstrong?
i respectfully disagree. motown is only remembered for their vast string of hits. nobody listens to this show biz stuff simply because it is so cheesy. people who liked the las vegas stuff listen to the experts in that field like frank sinatra. do you want to hear frankie sing "reach out"? i would guess not!
The Copa album is a fabulous document of a historic moment in pop history. Its also the engagement that breaks down the door so The Supremes [[and most of the Motown roster that follows behind) can bring contemporary pop and soul into these top tier entertainment venues that normally only catered to rich white audiences. Its easy to dismiss standards and Tin Pan Alley songs as cheesy but they require a certain talent and technique to sing them without falling into lounge act parody. Have you ever noticed the Motown acts that were particularly good at them were also the acts that seemed to have the longest overall hit spans? A lot of that stems from having the talent to be able to tackle different musical styles and sounds as popular tastes shifted. Even The Beatles performed standards, go play the Live At The BBC discs. Of course they didnt have to learn to twirl straw hats and canes like DMF did but they had the same aim as Berry Gordy, to get their music to reach the ears of all audiences, not just the kids. It sounds calculating to say it was only done for those purposes but its been well documented in the Supremes case that The girls were concerned with doing such a standards heavy set for the Copa opening. It wasnt until Cholly and Berry pointed out that the audience wasnt going to know Buttered Popcorn or Let Me Go The Right Way that they relented and trusted their judgement. As we all know their call was correct and the standards worked beautifully to enlarge The Supremes popularity. I look forward to buying this and hope everyone else does as well.
Can somebody please make crystal clear to me what this upcoming Copa disc might contain.
The 1965 Copa album PLUS never before released material from those performances and/or that timeline, or never before released material from 1967 Copa performances?
Or both?
after aretha signed to atlantic and hit the big time, her live albums, take "aretha; live at the fillmore", had a real band behind her [[king curtis), the sweet inspirations backing her, and ray charles as a guest. when she sang popular standards she controlled them, and made them her own. she was popular without pandering to her audience. motown was and is taken seriously for its enormous run of well made singles. its consistent and amazing stable of singers, musicians, songwriters, and producers. it is not remembered for its poorly conceived lounge acts. gordy should have left the copa biz to singers more suited to that venue, like johnny mathis or sammy davis jr. gordy's company never survived the loss of h/d/h perhaps because gordy was getting his fingers into too many ill conceived adventures. luckily a few of his singers became musicians. stevie wonder and marvin gaye managed to carry on the work motown started, but they did so by not following gordy's marching orders. you can love motown for its wondrous history, but one should be able to be critical enough to see its faults.
It could be both - it's all speculation at this point. Hopefully we'll get some official details soon...Quote:
Can somebody please make crystal clear to me what this upcoming Copa disc might contain.
The 1965 Copa album PLUS never before released material from those performances and/or that timeline, or never before released material from 1967 Copa performances?
Or both?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCicdozffM - Supremes At The Copa 1967 -Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY3s_...eature=related - Supremes At The Copa 1967 -Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4GF...eature=related - Supremes At The Copa 1967: You Can't Hurry Love
jeez, is it possible to run through a hit like "you can't hurry love" any faster with this half assed lounge band, just so you can make it to "put on a happy face"? what the hell was everybody thinking when they planned this? no wonder the record buying public youth market [[which is where the money was) jumped over to sly as soon as hipper options were available. this is something my mom might have listened to, but then added that the andrew sisters were tighter!
I was quite greatful for having the Supremes on the radio in 1965, because we could not hear anything on white radio other than the Supremes/Motown Fontella Bass and James Brown's two hits in 1965., Sly and the funkier music didn't get here or at least on pop radio until 1967 and by then we had Aretha Franklin. The Supremes had their own sound down and according to my ears they outsang the Andrew Sisters on the Sam Davis Special in 1966.
Welcome back Nomis.............and now, you know we'll be talking about Diana forever; to those that knew her personally, the term of endearment was Diane; and also is to those fans who aren't close to her but wanna be. LOL.
I agree with the point made by Fran and Glen that this is a landmark recording, much like the Central Park concert. And I couldn't hear and R&B/Soul music at all until Berry and the Supremes broke it all open.
But while I feel that way about these posts, the Supremes at the Copa isn't critical music for me; the Motown live albums aren't the greatest; the Supremes Millie Rose and Mame medley was quite something but I don't need another sped up live version of Baby Love/Stop in the Name of Love/Where Did Our Love Go. I would much rather have Baby It's Me and Diana Ross 1976.
nobody has ever said that motown wasn't the refreshing sound on the radio waves, but people seem to forget that black performers were on pop stations. ever heard of sam cooke? gordy wasn't the only man with a plan. however, he certainly had the best plan for pop radio. the supremes at the copa, along with the liverpool, c/w, and christmas albums certainly diluted what was otherwise a rather stupendous string of pop hits for the supremes. to think that playing the copa is some kind of ultimate showplace for motown is absurd. it is exactly where they should not have been singing if the wanted to be taken seriously as singers. pandering to the older, rich, white crowd was not a smooth move to make. that audience did not love that kind of music. kids loved it. i saw the supremes in portland around this time in at a large venue as the the entertainment part of an autos show. i loved their records, but couldn't believe how lame their act was. they sang well, but had a pickup band, and sang all of those silly show tunes, while running through their hits as an afterthought ... a rushed medley. none of my friends were impressed. but we continued to buy their hits. i doubt they gained any older people in the venue as fans with their show tunes. just listen to johnny mathis if you want to hear how a class lounge act should sound. as i said before, there is a time and place for everything. the copa/lounge bit is just not cool, just as hearing johnny mathis singing "love is like an itchin' in my heart" would be oh so painful to one's ears.
I don't know how old or young you are, how aware of how racist America was in 1965, but I was 13, and The Copa was the height of mainstream show biz in an era when "Rat Pack" was where it's at[[Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy etc)...
older white folks did love The Supremes, who were as non threatening as it gets; my mom leraned to love them, and the rich lady who I raked leaves for saw them at another prestige site, The Fountainbleu in Florida and said she loved them but "they were too loud!"...
and the show tunes angle enabled them to cross over into becoming regulars on the Ed Sulivan Show , the most powerful vehicle for selling records on TV in the 60s[[just ask Elvis or The Beatles);
the group's ability to interact with old school icons like Ethel Merman cemented them as on going decade spanning black faces that America loved, not for '15 minutes" like Sam Cooke,or the hordes of nameless, faceless black hit makers that came and went..
The Supremes were the ultimate weapon in the civil rights war of the 60s and The Copa was their "Normandy/D Day" victorious landing...
it was an historic moment in pop culture; if you weren't around to put things in context, then quit talking out of your ass...
for pop culture purposes, The Supremes At The Copa is probaby the most significant title in their catalog alongside the double Greatest Hits album...any true Motown fan will have to own one