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If this has already been discussed, my apologies.
On their final Ed Sullivan appearance, near the end of “Someday We’ll Be Together” Mary utters some of the words Johnny Bristol did on the recording. Does anyone know if this was planned or did Mary throw in some adlibs? Either way, it was a nice move.
I think it was planned, as she did similar adlibs on the version on their FAREWELL album.
It was done to cover up the fact that she wasn’t on the recording.
mary's ad libs echo Johnny's on the record. I'm sure they planned this as they wanted to approximate the record's sound. Mary's lines might be pre-recorded or live. seems like they're live but the first one "oh yes someday" is rather faint even though she's close to Diana's mic. the later ones "say it" are much louder, although mary is further from the mic
Of course this was planned, has nothing to do with not recording the song, Mary was simply emulating Johnny Bristol's voice. Geez...
I think Mary is being picked up by Diana's live mic. Near the end, you can see Diana sort of smile while Mary is singing. Makes you wonder what was on their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
Like others have said, she was mimicking Johnny’s vocals. With her deep vocals some thought it was her on the recording anyway. So her copying Johnny was all the plan of making listeners believe she was on the record. All to cover the fact she is not on the recording.
Who thought that very manly voice was Mary Wilson? Johnny and Mary sound nothing alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
The adlibs on "Someday" are part of the attraction of the song. Makes sense to try to mimic them live. When the group performed it on the Hollywood Palace, lip syncing, Johnny's voice is there and Mary never once mimes to it. Why would Motown try to cover up that Mary isn't on the record for the last tv performance but not do the same on the first[[?) tv performance of the song?
I think the decision was made to [[a) recreate the adlibs because it's a great part of the record, and [[b) it makes the group's last performance look more like an inclusive performance rather than Diana Ross and the other girls.
I agree with your thoughts a & b, RanRan. I do recall maybe a couple of forum members initially thinking it was Mary’s voice on the record, not knowing yet about Johnny Bristol. I believe they admitted their mistake with some humor. I myself always thought it was a male voice, possibly a Temptation. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
^^^ Thank you. Just on this forum alone, there were those that initially thought it was Mary.
Lucky's point stands, but was this something widely believed at the time of release? Were people really walking around saying "Have you heard that new one from the Supremes? Diana's singing lead, but Mary is singing with her". And that it was such a "controversy" that Motown would try to "fool" the public into believing that the voice on the record was Mary and not Johnny? It just doesn't make sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
It doesn’t make sense because everything you just said is nonsense. All because someone backed up what I said. Look up the definition of “Some”.
What the fuck is your problem? I just asked a question. I said Lucky's point stands, which means okay, you didn't pull the "people thought Johnny was Mary" thing out of your ass. However, your assertion that Mary did the adlibs on Sullivan in order to cover up that she isn't on the actual record doesn't make sense considering the points I made about the previous "Someday" performance. And since my parents were children when "Someday" was released, I was wondering if the confusion about the voice on the record was one that was so prevalent that it would cause Motown to react to it. I wouldn't know because I wasn't born and thought maybe you might know. You could have addressed my question without calling it nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
Damn, just when I thought the forum was past the nonsensical nastiness of yesteryears. Good grief.
Oh my, you’re so angry.
why can't you guys be happy and fluffy like me?
It's not a problem anymore. I just blocked his dumb ass. We don't all have to agree on everything but I don't think it's too much to ask to be respectful. It's Mary's adlibs for goodness sakes. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by BobbyC
RanRan--I never heard you get mad before! It's scandalous!!
Oh please, that was nothing. There are perhaps a handful of posts that still exist on this site that show me acting a much bigger ass than this, justified or not. I wouldn't even say this was me being mad. I was more confused. I've corresponded with that person previously, in agreement and disagreement, and I've never gotten disrespected, not that I can recall. So to me it came out of nowhere and it was about Mary's adlibs.:D I just didn't understand it. But the forum is definitely a much nicer place and the little bumps we have here and there are usually confined to two or four messages in a single thread and it doesn't go beyond that. I haven't blocked anyone in a long time, but I'd rather block in order to ensure that the forum remains peaceful than continue to interact with anyone who isn't interested in doing the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyC
I was a teenager in 1969 and I thought Mary was singing the Johnny Bristol parts - I never for a moment thought there would be other people singing on a Supremes record. It seems to me that word only gradually seeped about about how extensive the replacement and augmentation of Mary Florence and Cindy was. It would never have been believed that it started on some of the early hits.
It appeared that Motown was trying to spotlight Mary more like on Hollywood Palace and with Can’t Take My Eyes Off You - so why wouldn’t Mary be that deep voice?!
I always wish there could have been a happy reunion because it would have brought Mary much more money and exposure - but I respect that was a choice she did not want to make and she preferred to stand on principle.
Before I knew all of this I got very confused when hearing "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You", from Diana 70. Also Johnny Bristol adding vocals. I thought, why would Mary sing on Diana's first solo album?
Thank you Rob and Hitsville. That's how you answer the question, "Was this something widely believed at the time". And thank you both for doing it respectfully.
For the life of me I don't know how so many people confuse Johnny and Mary. They sound nothing alike to me. But even with that confusion people had, I don't think Motown would stage the Sullivan show and give Mary live adlibs in order to make them think the guy on the record- the one who wrote and produced it- is actually Mary.
I was an adult at the time of release and a huge fan, but not a fanatic. I recall when Love Child and Someday were released, I was so happy that the mikes of "Cindy" and "Mary" were turned up. I played those songs continuously and loved them. I just assumed that a man was singing response to Diana and paid no significance to it. I bought the album when it first came out and it had a tambourine intro. That intro disappeared on future pressings.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
At the time, I did not even know that Someday was a remake of an old song, nor was I aware of Johnny Brystol even though I was buying Motown records that he was involved in.
I was shocked years later, that no Supremes. except Diana, were on most of the later Supremes songs. I don't have the ability to identify the individual voices on the recordings, although I am fairly good identifying Mary's voice. I am always amazed that so many people here can probably here a fart on a recording and identify which Supreme made it :)
these things will keep me loving you by diana ross still confuses me. Which came first the chicken or the egg? Was it ever meant as a follow-up for Someday?
So for this fan who was around then, I did not think it was Mary, and actually thought that those church like miked up voices were actually Supremes. Just one man's opinion
During that time no one would have really had reason to believe that the voices on Supremes records were anyone other than Supremes. Of course now, most of us fanatics can usually tell fairly quickly between the actual Supremes and the Andantes or other anonymous background singers because we've become so intimately familiar with the voices of each Supreme. I think it might have been easier to fool the public once Cindy came in because the change in sound could have been chalked up to the new girl. Why no one questioned that the Supremes and Vandellas and Marvelettes suddenly all sounded the same is one of the big mysteries of life.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by milven
Regarding "These Things", one version was cut about a week or so before Diana left the group, the other version about a month later. Of course by then "Someday" was already a number one hit. I imagine Johnny cut the song in the hopes that it would be Diana's first single, and the similarity to "Someday" would help it repeat the success. Whether Gordy heard it and considered it as the first single, or if he heard it and thought it wasn't good enough for anything but an album, I don't know. But "Someday" definitely came before "These Things".
I would just barely qualify myself at this point as a master at figuring out Supremes backgrounds, but I have to say I'd be clueless about whose fart is whose.:cool:
I confess that for a very brief split second, I thought it was Mary doing the adlibs on the SOEMDAY recording. But this was ONLY because during Diana's 1977 tv special, they showed a clip of the Sullivan appearance and Mary was doing them there. But as I said, I only believed it for a brief split second. At that point, I don't think I knew yet that other vocalists did backgrounds for some of the recordings.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
For me, I noticed the change in background vocals because I bought the ANTHOLOGYs of the Supremes, the Vandellas, and the Marvelettes. The change in vocals from the early years to the later years was quite noticable. But I didn't think it wasn't the group members. I just figured Motown bought the girls some vocal lessons and it changed their vocals. :D
Johnny Bristol cut the track for this in November 1969 shortly after "Someday" was released. I believe his thought process that it was to be the follow-up. If you listen to the guitar lick it is identical to the one in "Someday." The session logs indicate it was intended for the Supremes. I suspect his plan and hope was "These Things" would be Jean's first single with the group and it would sound like Diana's last. Instead he reassigned the track to Diana with the similar mindset. Her first solo single would sound like her last Supremes single. We all know the story but in the end it wasn't issued as the follow-up after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by milven
Now that makes perfect sense, bradsupremes! “These Things...” always sounded like a Supremes song to me. And it certainly seemed out of place on Diana’s first solo album.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsupremes
Would have loved for Jean, Mary and Cindy to have recorded it!
So if "Once in the Morning" from the Webb album had been performed on TV and/or concert, would Mary have done Webb's parts for the performance?
That's one on my wish list of potential finds - a Supremes version of "These Things." Whether a version exists is unknown but as we've seen anything is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by mowest
well and didn't Gordy decide to stick These Things on DR 70 because he wasn't sure if there was a real hit on the A&S stuff? we know he didn't really want to release Reach out and touch and that he didn't like Mountain. but yet he allowed them to produce a full album of music and released it! i think George said by putting These Things on the album, if whatever song was first released from the A&S didn't hit, they could go with These.
i'd love to know what all were the tracks Syreeta recorded. we know she did a version of Ladder. was that just a demo version? or was she maybe actually recording some of the tunes in late 69 as sort of a test? she's on the backing vocals for The Beginning of the End for some odd reason. wonder if she, M and C recorded the backing vocals AND syreeta did a lead too. like how Jean was doing backing vocals with M and C tooQuote:
Originally Posted by bradsupremes
so are there maybe a handful of jean tunes with Syreeta leads?
A "male voice" on a girl group record at Motown may have been a rarity, but it wasn't an oddity.
The Four Tops and HDH are on the Supremes "Lovelight". Melvin Franklin is on the Marvelettes "Magician". Smokey Robinson is on the Supremes "Sweet, Sweet Love". I'm sure there are more examples.
My question would be, when these were originally released, who did you think was singing on those?
haha i'd describe Smokey's vocals on YWSSL as an oddity lol. but that's because IMO the end result was pretty awful. the voice is mixed so oddly. it's not really a duet just a weird voice. they should have had him simply duet with the group on that or some other song.Quote:
Originally Posted by marybrewster
if you hadn't had that weird voice, the song might have done a little better. the live version on Flip is a strong performance. the girls sound great, the tempo increase helps give it a bit more life. and no weird male voice