You're Nobody Question

I have just finished reading Freda Payne's autobiography and in it she alleges that she was Berry Gordy's first choice as a female artist but she declined the contract. She alleges Berry saw her perform "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You" in England and that later the Supremes were doing it in there show. I also just recently rewatched the Hitsville documentary where Berry alleges that Diana was in England and she didn't like Nobody and said she wasn't doing it for the second show, they argued and she did it in the second show "for him". Does anyone know if Berry really did decide to add it to the show after seeing Freda perform it first? Also, if Freda was first choice as an artist, how did Berry feel about Scherrie in the Supremes? She had a similar sound to Freda but was more bombastic in her vocals like Florence Ballard, yet she had more control and power. Did Berry ever champion Scherrie?
Also on Nobody, Florence ad libbed "Give me that gold and I'll do my own shopping". In later renditions Cindy has the line "Thin may be in but fat is where it's at" while Mary laments "Don't nobody care about little old me". Were those Flo's adlibs that Motown just kept in after Flo left or written monologue after seeing how Flo's comedic lines were accepted? Plus, in TCB Mary says"Honey, we is terrific". She always attributes that to Flo, but how did that get into the show if it was just an adlib from Flo? Was that a catchphrase Flo said or was it written for the TCB show and Mary stated it was something Flo always said as a way to pay tribute to her?
https://youtu.be/0Zr1xDs2qYs
https://youtu.be/wKpMBdMnCiY

Jim, I had always heard that Freda was one of the first solo females offered a contract at Motown, but she didn't sign. The story about You're Nobody could very well be true, as Freda's first foray into recording was jazz. It seems plausible, though checking the track listing for her Live In Stockholm album in 1965, You're Nobody is not among the tunes.

So here's a question. Mable John was signed to Motown in 1959, as its first female artist. Freda says Gordy's interest in her pre-dates John's, which obviously would have been earlier in 1959.

Freda was born in 1942, making her 17 at the time this allegedly happened. Freda says she turned down the contract, but as a minor, would she have even been able to sign? We also all know Berry told the Supremes to "finish school" before coming back to Motown, and later, their parents had to sign their contracts.

Does Freda mention anything about her Mother or Guardian in the context of signing contracts?

I'm not saying it didn't happen, just saying there might be more than meets the eye.

I think sometimes people make claims like, "first" rather loosely. Comparatively first ...
first-ish.

yeah in some of the Motown books in the 80s [[maybe it was Call Her Miss Ross), the author mentions that Gordy was very interested in Freda in the early 60s. it's been written that Berry was looking for a female vocalist that could cover all genres. someone with such broad appeal that they could easily break into the nightclub circuit, which was sort of the ultimate level of success at the time. i think Freda could have worked in this role but i don't think she would have achieved DR level of lifetime fame. Freda is great but IMO she's no DR. Diana really does just have "it" this truly unique combination of star appeal, talent, looks, razor focused drive, etc

first as in, before: you know who !!:p

as for the arrangement the Supremes did, You're Nobody is a standard and there have been tons of prior arrangements. many are very similar.

the thing that was special about the supremes' rendition isn't that they 1) performed the song or 2) did a slow intro then a jazzy ending. it's that they were young "pop" kids doing the song and doing it so convincingly. this is another reason why DMF succeeded. not only could they sing all sorts of music, they were convincing in it. they come across just as polished, engaging, happy, talented, musical as when they're singing You Can' Hurry Love as they are doing The Impossible Dream as they are doing Lady Is A Tramp as they are doing Makes No Difference Now etc etc etc.

when some of the other motown artists or other rock and rolls groups in the 60s sang some of these standards, they could obviously hit all the notes and sing it in tune. but you really didn't BELIEVE they were living the lyrics. with the sups, there's really never any question

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

as for the arrangement the Supremes did, You're Nobody is a standard and there have been tons of prior arrangements. many are very similar.

the thing that was special about the supremes' rendition isn't that they 1) performed the song or 2) did a slow intro then a jazzy ending. it's that they were young "pop" kids doing the song and doing it so convincingly. this is another reason why DMF succeeded. not only could they sing all sorts of music, they were convincing in it. they come across just as polished, engaging, happy, talented, musical as when they're singing You Can' Hurry Love as they are doing The Impossible Dream as they are doing Lady Is A Tramp as they are doing Makes No Difference Now etc etc etc.

when some of the other motown artists or other rock and rolls groups in the 60s sang some of these standards, they could obviously hit all the notes and sing it in tune. but you really didn't BELIEVE they were living the lyrics. with the sups, there's really never any question

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interesting that you mention this .....I was listening to some Al Green Christmas stuff ...his phrasing , emphasis, he pulls you in. Then to Peabo Bryson ...while technically on target .....not the same effect.

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

So here's a question. Mable John was signed to Motown in 1959, as its first female artist. Freda says Gordy's interest in her pre-dates John's, which obviously would have been earlier in 1959.

Freda was born in 1942, making her 17 at the time this allegedly happened. Freda says she turned down the contract, but as a minor, would she have even been able to sign? We also all know Berry told the Supremes to "finish school" before coming back to Motown, and later, their parents had to sign their contracts.

Does Freda mention anything about her Mother or Guardian in the context of signing contracts?

I'm not saying it didn't happen, just saying there might be more than meets the eye.

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It has been written in a few books, including Freda's, that Berry and her mother could not come to terms over the contract Berry offered her as a teen.

Later on, in the 60s, while performing in England, Freda says that found out the Motortown Revue was in town as well. They saw each other's shows and Berry told her to get in touch when she returned to the Detroit so that she could sign to Motown. As had happened the previous time, there were some things Freda, her mother, and her lawyer thought needed to be changed in the contract. Berry didn't appreciate being challenged and that was that.

I don't know whose idea it was to throw in the comedic bits but it was brilliant. Flo started out doing all the lines. If you listen to them performing it in early '65 there were more lines as well. I think on one part she says "He's somewhere honey" as if Diana is looking around for "somebody to love". Eventually they gave the one line to Mary. I wonder if because they hated the song, they threw in the comedy lines to make it mor enjoyable for them.

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Originally Posted by jim aka jtigre99

I have just finished reading Freda Payne's autobiography and in it she alleges that she was Berry Gordy's first choice as a female artist but she declined the contract. She alleges Berry saw her perform "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You" in England and that later the Supremes were doing it in there show. I also just recently rewatched the Hitsville documentary where Berry alleges that Diana was in England and she didn't like Nobody and said she wasn't doing it for the second show, they argued and she did it in the second show "for him". Does anyone know if Berry really did decide to add it to the show after seeing Freda perform it first? Also, if Freda was first choice as an artist, how did Berry feel about Scherrie in the Supremes? She had a similar sound to Freda but was more bombastic in her vocals like Florence Ballard, yet she had more control and power. Did Berry ever champion Scherrie?
Also on Nobody, Florence ad libbed "Give me that gold and I'll do my own shopping". In later renditions Cindy has the line "Thin may be in but fat is where it's at" while Mary laments "Don't nobody care about little old me". Were those Flo's adlibs that Motown just kept in after Flo left or written monologue after seeing how Flo's comedic lines were accepted? Plus, in TCB Mary says"Honey, we is terrific". She always attributes that to Flo, but how did that get into the show if it was just an adlib from Flo? Was that a catchphrase Flo said or was it written for the TCB show and Mary stated it was something Flo always said as a way to pay tribute to her?
https://youtu.be/0Zr1xDs2qYs
https://youtu.be/wKpMBdMnCiY

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Dean Martin had a top 20 hit with the song in 1964 and it became a standard automatically. It’s possible that Freda might have been an inspiration, but, I doubt it. Berry was picking songs for the night club circuit and the song had already become a staple in some peoples acts. Additionally, it’s highly unlikely that he would see it in her show and decide to do the song get the charts done rehearse the band and rehearse the girls with the song during that very short tour. I think Freda and Mark Biko are a little free with their thoughts.

also, she claims that Barry saw her dancing an African dance in 1958 and that she is wondering if that was the inspiration for Afro vogue 10 years later. I about threw up when I read that. It’s an embarrassing thing to claim, and definitely made me think differently of her. I knew that there was going to be shade thrown at Diana because Mark Bego hates her so much, but this is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by floyjoy678

I don't know whose idea it was to throw in the comedic bits but it was brilliant. Flo started out doing all the lines. If you listen to them performing it in early '65 there were more lines as well. I think on one part she says "He's somewhere honey" as if Diana is looking around for "somebody to love". Eventually they gave the one line to Mary. I wonder if because they hated the song, they threw in the comedy lines to make it mor enjoyable for them.

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i wonder a little about "they hated the song" Randy's story about Diana not liking it was, as i interpret it, more that the audience didn't respond so strongly to their performance of it. but they'd been doing standards for years. Anyone With A Heart, I Am Woman, People. and some of these they performed prior to WDOLG being a hit so i can't imagine audience response being euphoric.

i'm not saying the story didn't happen - i wasn't there nor did i conduct the interviews/research. but it might be that things/memories have evolved over the years and with the passing of time

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

Dean Martin had a top 20 hit with the song in 1964 and it became a standard automatically. It’s possible that Freda might have been an inspiration, but, I doubt it. Berry was picking songs for the night club circuit and the song had already become a staple in some peoples acts. Additionally, it’s highly unlikely that he would see it in her show and decide to do the song get the charts done rehearse the band and rehearse the girls with the song during that very short tour. I think Freda and Mark Biko are a little free with their thoughts.

also, she claims that Barry saw her dancing an African dance in 1958 and that she is wondering if that was the inspiration for Afro vogue 10 years later. I about threw up when I read that. It’s an embarrassing thing to claim, and definitely made me think differently of her. I knew that there was going to be shade thrown at Diana because Mark Bego hates her so much, but this is ridiculous.

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i would be very cautious with the various stories and info from Bego. while i'd trust him as a more credible source than Tony Turner, that isn't saying much