The duet Endless Love is in the classic songs of all time on many lists. I agree, the solo version pales in comparison; I never listen to it.
Printable View
The duet Endless Love is in the classic songs of all time on many lists. I agree, the solo version pales in comparison; I never listen to it.
I love "One More Chance" and most anything Ross did with Masser at the helm. I love her way with a ballad, and how Masser brought out the actress in her on several of his compositions. There's nothing casual or throwaway about her performance.
I bet Diane could have done some of the songs that Diane Warren wrote for Cher, and done them beautifully. I really think she excels at the "big ballad" type of number, especially at this point in her career.
I have never really listened to Ross' RCA output, though I did buy all the expanded editions when they were on sale at Funkytown Grooves. They're all reasonably priced and were very well mastered, but they include in some cases so many versions of the same song, that I've tended to want to cut them off before the end of the CD. Funkytown made the same mistake with some of Dionne Warwick's later output. One CD I bought from them has that awful "Got a Date" I think in five different versions on one CD. Made me want the un-expanded edition!
But regarding the RCA albums, I will have to go back and give "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" another listen.
Just going off topic briefly i have to say i totally agree with you with regards to Dionne's "got a date" expanded edition. It was a bad enough album to begin with, but all those additional mixes made it a very difficult listening experience. Whatever was Luther thinking?
As regards Diana's expanded rca editions i found them to be for the most part rather tedious. Too many mixes of the same songs in many cases.
Good luck with listening to "Why do fools". You may well need it!
I think you're confusing Diana with Mary on this one Marv. Diana was still at Motown when she recorded "One More Chance", not RCA. If Gordy could've afforded to pay her what RCA was offering her, she never would've left and he would've given her the money to stay. From a business standpoint he'd have to be the biggest idiot in music to not give a damn and let her walk out the door. Instead it was Mary that was shown the door and told to go and not come back. She was even given the masters to her latest recordings. Gordy just didn't care at that point when it came to Mary. Diana was always a different story. Let's not re-write history here.
I agree with all points. At Motown I think A&S, Masser, Perry and Quincy mastered producing Diana Ross. While Diana recorded a few cuts that rank among my fav Diana songs of all time [[such as "Swept Away", "Missing You", "Mirror, Mirror" and a couple of others) I don't think anyone mastered the Ross voice at RCA, with Lionel Richie being an exception, but that was one song.
Ross' RCA problem [[aside from Diana being in charge of her own creative output...yikes!) was that she kept attempting to compete with the new crop of folks coming up in the industry. She was trying hard to hold onto her pop crown but nobody was here for it, not only because the music mostly sucked [[again..."Pieces of Ice"...) but also because a lot of it seemed beneath where Diana Ross, aged late 30s early 40s, should've been headed. She was too old for pop confections or looking for a rock edge. The rock edge worked for Tina Turner because one can argue that Tina was even more rock and roll than she was soul/pop during her entire career, so it was easy for people to buy it.
Diana's biggest hits as a solo have almost exclusively been ballads. Hooking back up with Masser or recording Warren compositions would've been the thing that kept Ross relevant as the 80s moved on. Not that she couldn't have taken chances on other producers also, but I think Masser and Warren were safe bets.
i think the biggest problem was as you said, Diana being in charge of Diana. Berry would often push her to do things she was apprehensive about or didn't want to do. but she did them 1) because he said so and 2) because he believed in her.
there are moments during the RCA period that hint at what could have been:
Mirror mirror - she could have broadened her appeal with a more rock sound. but a rock sound done A La Diana. she shouldn't have to replicate someone else, she was enough of a force in music that she could lead the way. This sound is something she should have explored. Swept Away [[although too far after Mirror) was a good continuation of this
Touch by touch - while i don't think this would ever be the highlight of a Diana discography, it is catchy and fun. sort of the definition of 80s pop.
ross 83 - the Gary Katz stuff is ok. not the most remarkable music for diana but it works. however her vocals are just not exciting enough. she just sort of seems a bit bored with it all
Missing You - wonderful ballad. imagine if this thought and care had been applied to In Your Arms.
I disagree. The odd rock oriented song Like "Mirror Mirror or "Swept Away is fine but for me that is not Diana's essence and most certainly not what made her famous in the first place. Part of what made the rca years such a barren period for hit singles, particularly after 84 was that with the exception of "Missing You and "Chain reaction she rarely recorded anything that could be considered soulful pop. That was and still is Diana's forte.
Hardly anyone in America heard it or bought it. "Chain Reaction was too hokey sounding with lyrics that made no sense in my opinion. People were listening to Sade, Patti LaBelle, Janet Jackson, Anita Baker and of course Whitney Houston at that time. Women that were putting out relevant music for the time. American radio was through with Diana Ross by the mid-80s. Not one of her singles once she returned to Motown even charted on the Billboard Pop Charts. She released quite a few too.
I really like "Bad Weather".
Musically it's great, but it isn't the most commercial Stevie composition and production. Those lovely chord changes and horn interplays in the intro alone are enough to frighten the horses!
So although I enjoy listening to it, I can understand how commercially it might have been a slightly unsettling step off the well-beaten path for traditional Supremes fans, especially since it followed hot on the heels of the very pop-y, highly accessible and and slightly retro "Floy Joy" album.
In the UK we were also listening to all of those artists, but we also sent "Chain Reaction" to Number One.
It was fun, it was slightly retro, but it was also "current" and eminently danceable, and it's been a floor-filler ever since. It was also a great pop song.
What it showed is that the classic Supremes sound never lost its appeal. Janet Jackson, Vanessa Paradis and Ace of Base also subsequently recognised this and exploited it.
It might also be that there was a slight divergence of taste regarding the Bee Gees at that time since their resurgence in the UK in the late 80s wasn't quite matched in the USA. The UK seemed more open to what they were doing, including producing a smash hit for Diana Ross.
But it's also always been that way between the UK and the USA, and sometimes it takes 20 or 30 years before a record that hits in one country but misses in the other gets the wider recognition that it deserves.
For instance, "What's Going On" and "Let's Get It On" by Marvin Gaye are viewed as classics in the UK, but the UK didn't actually chart WGO at all, and LGIO only scraped into the UK Top 40.
Go figure. Beats me.
I am in total agreement Sotosound. Your observations regarding the Bee Gees are also spot on.
"Chain Reaction" is the perfect pop record and more than deserved it's international [[bar usa) success. More of this would have been nice.
I do partly agree with marv in that during those rca years Diana seldom had her finger on the button as regards music trends and the type of music her fans craved for.
Initially, Chain Reaction got big support on the #1 station in the US:WABC
However, it didn’t get adds in other crucial markets. When it was re-issued, WABC didn’t add it, naturally, but it did get some play here and there to limp into the 60’s.
WABC was big on Diana Ross solo:
Upside Down and WDFFIL both were charted there for 25 weeks
its My Turn for 22
Endless Love was #1 for 14 weeks
and the diana album was on their album playlist for months
‘I couldn’t agree more. When I first played the album I couldn’t believe this was the follow up to the biggest record of her career????? I liked mirror mirror and think I’m in love, Plus even though it’s nothing more than cheesy Schmaltz pablum disco, I didn’t mind it’s never too late at all…… And I think if it had a harder edge to it and more soulful it would’ve work as a third single. I’ve never cared for the title song, or the solo endless love - but I think it was wise to put it on there, and I don’t have anything against Sweet nothing‘s I mean it was perfectly fine but not too songs from the 50s please…… And that led to the dreadful release of so close the following year as a limp dick single. I shook my head until it rattled trying to figure out how this nothing album could’ve possibly followed up the brilliant Chic Album. I think some of her vocals are perfunctory, but most of all, if 4 million people in the previous year and purchased your album what made you think at those same people we’re going to want to hear music like this????? Even the album cover is a gigantic went down compared to the year before…… and even though I like the mirror mirror, I wasn’t crazy about it. And even though I like to think I’m in love, I just don’t think it has any business being on the follow up album that had upside down on it.
Getting back to the "To Love Again album, it's a huge shame that the album could not have been released at the same time "Endless Love" was climbing the charts.
It could have been titled Endless Love" to include "Dreaming Of You". Had this been the case i think the album could have gone top 10.
One Masser song i so wish Diana had recorded is "Someone That I Used To Love". A beautiful, poignant song that was perfect for her. Natalie Cole had a minor hit with it but i'm sure Diana could have had the definitive version and a sizeable hit.
After the massive success of 20 Golden Greats in the UK, i think the Masser tribute idea was a mistake. The public did not need TMITM or Theme From Mahogany featured on vinyl so soon after. I think "After You" and "All Night Lover" would have worked better.
Regarding the "Supremes sound" which was "The Motown Sound" largely created by The Funk Brothers did experience a renew popularity in the mid 80s. Some of the better examples are
Stevie Wonder - Part Time Lover - 1985 #1
Hall & Oates - Maneater - 1982-83 #1
Katrina and the Waves - Walking on Sunshine 1985 #9
All of those songs were hits in the U.S.
Good examples that I'd forgotten about.
[[Better than what?)
In the UK we also had "A Town Called Malice" by The Jam.
Diana had bad career advice during the RCA years and I'm sure she'll agree with me.
So did the Supremes after 1972.
Plus most artists stay relevant for a decade and a half before they get replaced by someone else occasionally making a comeback here and there.
That's just reality.
Technically "Bad Weather" reaching #87 on the Billboard Hot 100 did better in America than "Chain Reaction" that went to #95. Then she got desperate and they remixed it and re-released it and it petered out at #66 but on it's original release, it barely scrapped the Hot 100. Now the only reason I am talking these two records and comparing them is because YOU brought it up!
TOMATOE, TOMATO it still bombed!!
The only reason I brought it up is because you brought up Chain Reaction bombing while my thread is about One More Chance.