Motown -- in the wilderness in the 70's.

Motown seemed to loose it's way quite soon after relocating to LA. By 1973 & right through to at least 1980, it was no longer at the cutting edge of recorded sounds.
Lots of it's 60's hit makers were still there but just seemed to be treading water. The company missed out on / ignored [[?) many commercial music trends in the 70's. It still had the 'Norman Whitfield' sound but by 73 that was getting very repetitive. It had Stevie & Marvin, but the new paths they were following had been resisted by Motown bosses until they'd been proven big sellers -- so the company can't really claim those as 'cutting edge sounds' that they fully supported.
When the Philly sound was conquering the world, they were very very slow in going with it or trying to amalgamate the 60's Motown vibe with a 70's Philly vibe to get their own version of 70's soul.
There were a few other acts who were more cutting edge -- Syretta had her own sound but that was due to Stevie not the company. Willie Hutch was an innovator but he seemed to only get a small promotional push from Motown.
The Commodores had their own sound but it was self-generated and they lost their image as time passed by trying to be both a 'funky disco' act and a 'power ballad' act.
Motown largely ignored so many black music genres in the 70's, even when they had the acts to join in the fun.
They never really went with funk in any mainstream way, apart from with Rick James towards the end of the 70's. James Brown stuff was not their thing. Then that funk sound was expanded into new areas by the likes of War, Sly Stone, Graham Central Stn, Kool & the Gang, Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Earth Wind & Fire, BarKays, Rufus, Tower of Power, Brass Construction, etc. Again Motown ignored the trend.
They also ignored the jazz funk genre -- George Duke, Roy Ayers, Mandrill, Osibisa, Herbie Hancock, Grover Washington [[& yes, he was on Motown at the end of the 70's), Donald Byrd, James Mason, Ronnie Laws, etc.
I know they got the Crusaders via a side label deal and tried with Hugh Masekela but why didn't they steer Jnr Walker that way instead of parking his career on a dead end street. They had the top jazz studio players in the whole of the US in the 60's but abandoned them in Detroit when the move west was made.
With the right handling, the Funk Brothers could have been the top jazz funk band in the US in the 70's.
It never even fully exploited the 'disco' era but just seemed to spend a lot of the time cutting 2nd rate disco versions of it's classic 60's songs -- another opportunity gone wrong.

BTW, neither Switch or the Dazz Band [[1980 on Motown anyway) ever really meant anything in the UK, so I have discounted them as 'innovative acts' -- I also don't really consider them innovative. I also place High Inergy in that category.
Tata Vega had something different going on but I don't feel that Motown really got behind her much.

Most music historians do not realize how bad things got at Motown. After 1977 the company had entire weeks with nothing on the Hot 100 and only a handful of best-selling lps. From 77-80, Gordy's biggest sellers were the Commodores, Stevie, and to a lesser extent Rick James. During this period Marvin was dormant, Diana floundered until The Boss in 79 and even Stevie cost the label money when Gordy, figuring the odd Secret Life of Plants would do as well as Songs In The Key Of Live, printed a million advance copies. The lp charted well but actual sales were less than half what was advanced. Efforts to launch acts like Platinum Hook, Cuba Gooding, 21st Creation and Tata Vega as well as trying to maintain High Inergy and Thelma Houston cost the label thousands of dollars it didn't have. Gordy wrote in his book that going into 1979 he almost lost Motown to poor sales and his gambling debts. He was concentrating strictly on movies and tv and after Mahogany, nothing happened despite repeated efforts. By the time he turned his attention back to the music, Motown was nearly gone.

First thing he did was re-establish his flag ship Diana with The Boss. His buddy and VP Smokey Robinson had been flapping around for years, In the 7 years after leaving the Miracles, and despite all the hoopla of him being such a brilliant lyricist, Smokey released product every year that mostly went unheard. In that period he had two modest selling singles and only one big selling lp, Quiet Storm. Scores of lps and singles died on the vine. Word in Hollywood during 78 and 79 was that Smokey was entertaining leaving Motown. Indeed, had he not been so close to BG he likely would have been dropped two lps after Quiet Storm. He finally made a comeback with Where There's Smoke and Cruising. I remember Motown promoting the hell out of his Pure Smokey lp in 74. Record buyers ignored it by and far.

Motown slowly regained success in the early 80s but it was Motown 25 that gave the label a real shot of adrenaline and The Big Chill made its back catalogue in demand. They rode this wave of success until the late 80s when music had changed radically and Gordy, now in his 60s, didn't relate to this new music. He sold in 1988.

Ironically the last hit single for Motown under BG was a re-issue of the Contours Do You Love Me, featured in one of the dance movies of that day.

I know BG took his eye off the ball in the 70's when he decided movies were gonna be his new thing .... BUT SURELY ... there must have been somebody to take charge and run the label effectively in his absence. I know Motown lost lots of good staff when they relocated to LA and when many creative side staffers walked out the door [[following the example set by H-D-H and others) but there must have been someone left with the skills to run the record biz side of things.
The UK had been putting out old Motown [[& Ric Tic) recordings since 1968 and were still doing the same in 74 .. but that's mainly coz the tracks were still big soul club [[niter) spins that hadn't been given a fair deal on original release [[or hadn't even managed a UK release at all originally).
US Motown also got in on the 'oldies' bag in 74 but the US effort was just based on the ANTHOLOGY releases ... old hits repackaged on compilation albums ... quite an uninspiring concept.Attachment 20674

Gordy put a few people in charge when he stepped aside to run Motown Productions. In the mid 70s he put Ewart Abner in charge of the recording side. Fatal mistake. Even Mary Wilson wrote about this in her second book. Veteran acts began to bail like never before and the newer acts being signed were mostly not catching on. When BG returned from Rome where he was filming Mahogany in 75, he found out Abner had lost the Jacksons to Epic. Livid, Abner was demoted and was allowed to form his own label, Prodigal. It did little.

Suzanne dePasse stepped in after that and she was dividing her time between music and movies. This is when Motown sank to new lows. Gordy himself revived the label in 1979-80 and it lasted several more years before he threw in the towel.

Perhaps our own Ralph Terrana can give more details on these decisions and the impact it had on Motown in total.

Who would have been a good person to run Motown in the 70s while Berry Gordy was busy focusing on motion picture production?

Also, when Stax was falling apart, did Motown make any attempt to sign one of their bigger stars like Issac Hayes, the Staples Singers, or Johnny Taylor?

Don Davis. Visionary. Proven track record. Trendsetter.

Musician. Writer. Publisher. Producer. Studio Operator. Detroit history. Stax experience. Knew everybody. Businessman. Banker. Built very successful Afro-American Enterprise.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/248249-Don-Davis-2
Donald Davis
Profile:
Detroit-based producer, label owner, songwriter, and guitarist.

b. October 25, 1938, Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A.
d. June 05, 2014, Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A.

Davis’ music career started in the mid-1950s at which time the Central High School graduate formed a jazz group called the Don Davis Trio. However, the trio was short-lived and Davis opted to become a studio musician. He played guitar for an array of Detroit based record companies, including Motown, Golden World and Ric-Tic Records.

In the late 1960s Davis began focusing on producing and writing, becoming a key figure with Memphis-based Stax Records, though he continued to live in Detroit. He landed a national No. 1 hit in the fall of 1968 with “Who's Making Love / I'm Trying” by Johnnie Taylor and several other hits by the singer, including “Jody’s Got Your Girl and Gone” and “Take Care of Your Homework.” His greatest success was “Disco Lady,” also by Taylor, which was certified Platinum in early 1976 and remained No. 1 on the national R&B chart for six weeks and spent four weeks in the No. 1 spot on the Pop chart. Another No. 1 hit — Pop and R&B — was “You Don't Have To Be A Star [[To Be In My Show) / We've Got To Get It On Again” by former 5th Dimension members Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr., also in 1976.

In the ’70s, Davis formed a record production and music publishing company called Groovesville Productions, Inc.. He also purchased United Sound Studios, utilized by such artists as the Dramatics, George Clinton, the Dells and David Ruffin.

It came as a major surprise when Don Davis moved into the banking field. Always business minded, he was able to take over First Independence Bank, which was struggling at the time, as a result of having purchased a large number of shares. With Davis at the helm, First Independence became a major success, eventually recognized as the 12th largest African-American owned bank in the United States.

Running Motown in the 70's ...
Holland / Dozier, Al Perkins or even George Clinton.
Maybe Curtis Mayfield / Eddie Thomas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21

Who would have been a good person to run Motown in the 70s while Berry Gordy was busy focusing on motion picture production?

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Where Motown blew it was replacing Harry Balk with Suzanne DePasse.

Harry was a seasoned record guy who guided Motown through its most productive years ever. Ms. DePasse was a Hollywood player. Go figure.....

It was too bad that Motown lost Mickey Stevenson.I agree about the situation replacing Harry Balk with Suzanne DePasse. Most of all it was too bad Motown the record company moved to LA.

If Motown had retained it's Detroit base, it wouldn't have lost it's unique studio band.
The Funk Brothers [[jazz players of the highest order) would have been a brilliant asset in the 'jazz-funk 70's'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj6bsQLGE6c

How the FUNK's did it live after their 60's triumphs ... their updated sound ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xcbkNtqXn4

The FUNKS getting funky ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO46sQ4HDHM

Motown wasn't unique in getting it wrong in the 70's ... other labels also fell out of favour ...
STAX went bust [[though that was more financial rather than for artistic reasons). Atlantic turned it's main emphasis onto Brit blues-rock. Chicago soul started to struggle in the mid 70's [[following on from the Chi-Lites successes).
Other labels signed good bands and got the promotion of their releases all wrong.
Steely Dan enjoyed big hits but also commercial flops ... in 74 for instance ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8Oq_q7Bnw
Attachment 20676

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Originally Posted by motony

It was too bad that Motown lost Mickey Stevenson.I agree about the situation replacing Harry Balk with Suzanne DePasse. Most of all it was too bad Motown the record company moved to LA.

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I agree with this Motony, the main problem was re-locating outside of Detroit. In LA, Motown grew beyond its own boundaries, branching into movies, tv...for heaven's sake even a country & western label. Motown? Country and Western? I think signing Pat Boone was rather bizarre. It seems Gordy wanted to be the black Columbia Records with all these different projects. But Motown was known for the Motown Sound, and that sound died in 1973 and beyond. Being in Detroit gave Motown its distinction and nowhere else could they find the type of musicians and singers that were in the Big D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

I agree with this Motony, the main problem was re-locating outside of Detroit. In LA, Motown grew beyond its own boundaries, branching into movies, tv...for heaven's sake even a country & western label. Motown?

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Don't forget that Motown Records first tried it's hand at Country Music in the '60s with the Mel-o-dy label. After the first couple of R&B releases on the imprint, Berry Gordy turned the label over to Al Klein and they issued C&W records [and a couple of comedy records] before Mel-O-dy was shut down in 1965. And you're right; Motown's signing of Pat Boone was indeed bizarre.

PS: I agree with you that Motown had way too many projects on tap when they moved to L.A. in the '70s.

My understanding is that Motown was never the main source of income for the musicians. In the late '60s, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville and New York lost a lot of musicians to LA simply because there was lots more work out there.

I think it is rather simple. When Motown abandoned Detroit, discarding the hit making machine of the Funk Brothers, Secure Detroit producers and the abundant talent oozing out of the city, the goose was cooked. L.A. would never match the creative output of Detroit and the dream faded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jsmith

Motown seemed to loose it's way quite soon after relocating to LA. By 1973 & right through to at least 1980, it was no longer at the cutting edge of recorded sounds.
Lots of it's 60's hit makers were still there but just seemed to be treading water. The company missed out on / ignored [[?) many commercial music trends in the 70's. It still had the 'Norman Whitfield' sound but by 73 that was getting very repetitive. It had Stevie & Marvin, but the new paths they were following had been resisted by Motown bosses until they'd been proven big sellers -- so the company can't really claim those as 'cutting edge sounds' that they fully supported.
When the Philly sound was conquering the world, they were very very slow in going with it or trying to amalgamate the 60's Motown vibe with a 70's Philly vibe to get their own version of 70's soul.
There were a few other acts who were more cutting edge -- Syretta had her own sound but that was due to Stevie not the company. Willie Hutch was an innovator but he seemed to only get a small promotional push from Motown.
The Commodores had their own sound but it was self-generated and they lost their image as time passed by trying to be both a 'funky disco' act and a 'power ballad' act.
Motown largely ignored so many black music genres in the 70's, even when they had the acts to join in the fun.
They never really went with funk in any mainstream way, apart from with Rick James towards the end of the 70's. James Brown stuff was not their thing. Then that funk sound was expanded into new areas by the likes of War, Sly Stone, Graham Central Stn, Kool & the Gang, Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Earth Wind & Fire, BarKays, Rufus, Tower of Power, Brass Construction, etc. Again Motown ignored the trend.
They also ignored the jazz funk genre -- George Duke, Roy Ayers, Mandrill, Osibisa, Herbie Hancock, Grover Washington [[& yes, he was on Motown at the end of the 70's), Donald Byrd, James Mason, Ronnie Laws, etc.
I know they got the Crusaders via a side label deal and tried with Hugh Masekela but why didn't they steer Jnr Walker that way instead of parking his career on a dead end street. They had the top jazz studio players in the whole of the US in the 60's but abandoned them in Detroit when the move west was made.
With the right handling, the Funk Brothers could have been the top jazz funk band in the US in the 70's.
It never even fully exploited the 'disco' era but just seemed to spend a lot of the time cutting 2nd rate disco versions of it's classic 60's songs -- another opportunity gone wrong.

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I'm told that I must spread some reputation before I can like this post. Well, b*gger that! I like this post!

Your reputation is intact here, Soto. Your thoughts are most welcome here.

By the mid 70s when the company was re-issuing the hits in Anthology packages and the like, what percentage of the company's revenue was from the hits packages vs. their new music product?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ralpht

Your reputation is intact here, Soto. Your thoughts are most welcome here.

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Grazie!

I would just like to be able to show appreciation for all posts that I believe are especially good whereas the forum software won't allow me to "like" more than one post by Member A unless I "like" a post by another member after Member A's first post and before Member A's second post.

This doesn't make sense as I can only happily and honestly "like" posts that I like. Awarding unwarranted [IMO] likes just to get around the software doesn't feel right.

This is especially frustrating when a specific member makes a series of great posts, such as Philles/Motown Gary, who deserves lots of likes for his Van McCoy posts but the forum rules won't allow me to like more than one post by him without having to go and find another post by another member to like.

I just want to say that I like those Van McCoy posts. Is that wrong?

I was a sophomore in High School in '74....the Anthology LP's were very popular...most of us that missed the mid 60's only knew the really big often played AM top 10 hits...those sets were an education in the growth of the company and the individual artists...

By 73/74/75, big corporations were taking over black radio stns & changing their formatting. The 'old days' of DJ's picking what to spin & of local stns playing local releases [[even on little indie labels) was just about over.
In the 60's, Detroit black radio stns would play locally recorded tracks put out on all sorts of obscure labels [[if the cut was good enough). By the early to mid 70's, that had ended.
SO THE SCENE should have been set for Motown tracks to get even more radio airplay [[along with product from RCA, Atlantic, Mercury, Warners, etc.). IT DIDN'T SEEM TO HAPPEN as the product on offer didn't seem to be considered of good enough quality.
I could be wrong about Motown 45's getting far less radio exposure, but don't think I am.