My conclusion:
Absolutely Yes.
But I'll let you ponder it over before I make my case.
For starters, listen throughout but especially starting @ 5:10 thru 5:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgq4HMdMdg
Printable View
My conclusion:
Absolutely Yes.
But I'll let you ponder it over before I make my case.
For starters, listen throughout but especially starting @ 5:10 thru 5:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgq4HMdMdg
I mean, ain’t nobody straight in LA. :p:p
Video not available.
bummer.
Try this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBWHQIfxEY
same drill applies 5:10 thru 5:50 ....
I’d never really paid much attention to the, uhh, groans and moans before. But to me, it sounds like about 3 guys and 1 girl getting it on… LOL
You have a very vivid imagination.
Boogiedown, you are letting your imagination get the best of you.
The album is not about homosexuality. It is not front and center. Just because they put one song on it called "Ain's Nobody Straight In L.A." does not mean that it's what the album is about. In fact, if you listen to the banter at the end of that song, it clearly talks about straight men looking for women. The grunting on "Love Machine" is just that: grunting. Why can't it be a man grunting with a woman?
Geez! Where do people come up with this stuff? next you'll be saying that the heavy breathing on "Tell me Something Good" by Rufus is also gay.
I mean, we can't know for sure that it’s NOT two men grunting. It could be.
To me, it does sound like more than one male voice grunting, but I also hear a woman. I think it’s just about unfettered intimacy, generally!!! :p
Hi Tom! Good for you to take the time to actually LISTEN to the song before commenting here. That's all it takes to hear two distinct male voices taking turns grunting over each other, shall we say.
Can you tell exactly where on the song you also hear a female voice in ecstasy ?? I don't hear it, I've tried.:cool::)
Soulster! It's good to see you back! Glad I could come up with a topic to entice you! :)I've enjoyed your postings here in the past.
So, yes the album has a bigger concept than just homosexuality, its about life in LA....exciting times for the Detroit Motowners. However, gayness as a topic is most certainly brought forth front and center as never before [can anyone name a song that was dedicated to gayness so directly prior to this one? OK maybe BIG BRUCE :p]....right down to the title itself....ANSILA.... forthright and even remarkably casual about it. I can't think of any other album that took on this topic so 'front and center' like this one did in the history of music. [ & certainly from old school days. anyone?]
Why can't it be 'a man with a woman grunting'? ......because, its two guys that're being heard....
If there's a female involved we wouldn't have to be reaching to infer it ....it would've [and easily could've] been made clear.
And of course this is not LOVE MACHINE you're referring to, but an entirely different song, AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA that closes out that way...Quote:
In fact, if you listen to the banter at the end of that song, it clearly talks about straight men looking for women.
yes the banter created there: this was the escape clause of the tune, the cop-out....they wanted to make it clear to their buying public, that they, The Miracles, weren't singing about themselves [even if perhaps some of them were].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_cFzVAoo8
Oh my!!:o
yes another moaning record.
However the grunting heard here is clearly in response to a female's continuous 'encouragement' shall we say ...throughout the record and following the lines :
what I got will knock your pride aside....
what I've got to give will sure enough do you good
nope. nothing gay about it.
Oh, I check in once in a while, mainly to catch up on any new releases that may interest me. I also look to see about any political stuff, but all i've found is a thread about Kyle Rittenhouse being acquitted. I'm thinking news and politics is avoided around here because of the bad blood. Shocked no one is talking about Ukraine, though.
About the album: it's excellent, and I wonder how Berry Gordy released it. I'm sure he wasn't happy about it, given some of the subject matter. Motown was still trying to push inoffensive ballads and disco records in 1976.
I don't know what "Big Bruce" is, but there have been several songs about homosexuality in the past, even if they weren't explicitly so. "Strange Fruit" by Billie Holliday, anyone?
When I hear that grunting on "Love Machine", i'm thinking multitracking. I'm thinking of sex..er...love machines, not gay machines.
And, do you have any evidence that any of those Miracles members at the time were gay? It's just a song, man! You know the stereotype about Hollywood and gays, and that stereotype includes liberals, drugs, sex, wealthy, carefree people with all the free time in the world. Of course L.A. is a huge city, the second largest in the country, but has the largest land mass, and is prone to earthquakes and tremors.
The album and song focus on just one aspect of it circa 1976. It's just a city that just happened to have been the entertainment capital at the time.
Regarding the Rufus song: It was written by Stevie Wonder for the band Rufus. It was 1974. The word "pride" meant something way different then than it does now, or at least had a different connotation.
I know this forum is populated with gays, but, c'mon!
I've always read that song is about lynchings in the south. Lyrics below.
Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees
Pastoral scene of the gallant South
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh
Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the tree to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop
Soulster,
funny how things can be misread or not made properly clear by the poster in the first place in these exchanges. In the case of TELL ME SOMETHING GOOD , I wasn’t being sarcastic , I really was agreeing that there’s nothing gay about it. It’s written to be about a female who has the hots coaxing a guy, who judging from the male moans, obliges . It never occurred to me that she’s doing so because the guy has to be convinced to be attracted to her femininity.
That would be quite a stretch , …. or would it, hee hee …one that’s now kind of amusing me .
is AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA the first song to use the word “gay”
in that context so explicitly?, no innuendo, double meaning etc.
Yes, but people have misinterpreted the content based solely on the title. I once read a critic's comment of it in the past that did just that [[I don't really respect most music critics, anyway).
Bottom line: saying the grunting in "Love Machine" are two gay guys is a product of an overactive imagination. Aside from themes of human sexuality on the album, there are also numerous silly lines about L.A. falling into the ocean on the track "City Of Angels".
Huh - I always thought those grunts were like the "ooh yeas" - the computer making those sounds like the love machine was Hal in 2001 or something - or Agnes in the Twilight Zone, a computer with a personality?
I never equated them to people - just sound effects from a machine.
Me too!
although I never cared for the song much and therefore haven’t paid that much attention to it —- AND if one were only familiar with hearing it via the radio bitd as I was and never listened to the full length album version , as I didn’t …. Well guess where exactly at what point the radio single has been elected to fade out , yep…. just as the frolicking begins.
Now I have to say I’m surprised that people aren’t hearing what I’m hearing and it’s got me questioning what’s going on. I’m just noticing all this for the first time as I present it, but I fully expected to get yawns and comments like, of course everybody knows about that, “old news” as this crowd has a tendency to do. But nary a one. I can’t be the first person ever to notice this.
Only Tom seems to be relating to what I’m talking about and even he keeps insisting he’s hearing multiples [all the Miracles ?] while I’m hearing two gents grunting.
so it turns out there’s a caveat to the listening experience I’ll get into soon in a post when I have more time.
In the meantime let’s consider the lyrics. Firstly, what’s missing —-there’re lots of gender neutral “baby” references but never words like “girl” “woman” “lady” and no “ she” s. The absence of these words might just be fitting to the song , but it might also be intentionally ambiguous. Whatever the reason, convenient to my argument, they aren’t there.
Some lyric sites seem to go out of their way to put in a “she” at one point where it’s clearly a “you” being sung, as other sites dictate correctly.
As to lyrics themselves, there’s one particularly odd line that’s in there that stands out.
I’ll see if anyone else picks up on it , while I get to work.
Composing by phone instead of computer sucks.
A lack of gender specific nouns is interesting Boogie! I’d not considered any of these things before if I'm honest, but whatever the intention, I definitely hear more than one MALE voice grunting in the song. Whether this was for a deliberate effect [[as if they were grunting back at each other in a ‘gay’ way]], or whether it was just to layer the sound, I'm not sure. :)
From Wikipedia
City of Angels is an album by the Motown soul group The Miracles, released on Motown Records' Tamla label in September 1975. The group's fourth album recorded after replacing lead singer Smokey Robinson with Billy Griffin in 1972, City of Angels is a concept album, depicting of a man from "Anytown, U.S.A." who follows his estranged girlfriend Charlotte to Los Angeles, where she has gone in hopes of becoming a star. All of the tracks on the album were written by Billy Griffin and Miracles bass singer Pete Moore. Freddie Perren and Moore served as the album's producers.
The album's first single, "Love Machine", peaked at number-one on the Billboard Hot 100 on March 6, 1976, and was a multi-million-selling Platinum single,[3] becoming the most successful single of The Miracles' career. Its success coincided with the rise of the disco craze of the late 1970s. Another song on City of Angels, "Ain't Nobody Straight in L.A.", caused controversy due to addressing the subject of homosexuality: "Ain't nobody straight in L.A./It seems that everybody is gay."
If anyone out there has the CD reissue on Universal 2010, there is a comprehensive essay by David Nathan and featured interviews with the composers Warren "Pete" Moore and Billy Griffin
For what it's worth, I isolated those grunts the best as I could using RX7, and you can clearly hear female "ahhhs" in there. There are not two guys getting it on.
https://we.tl/t-DebfkcUSKU
Soulster, that's some impressive sound analysis. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. Very good.
I'm going to keep very quiet on this subject as I don't want to get beaten up by Bruce Willis, who you may remember broke into this song when he was appearing in an episode of "Friends":)
I had a girlfriend once that loved WHAM's "Love Machine" cover, she thought it was their original song. Let's just say the relationship didn't last too long when she thought the Beatles also did "You've Really Got A Hold On Me" first and the Stones "Going To A Go-Go" first - - it was the 80s in my late teens, but still, I had to say - no way, this can never work!
Yes according to wiki [although where in the album is this relationship actually explored?] : he follows his 'estranged' [wonder what's going on between them that bought that about:rolleyes:] girlfriend to Hollywood where upon arrival he's excited to learn 'that everybody is gay'. Meanwhile Charlotte's so lonely [according to the song POOR CHARLOTTE] that she kills herself, resulting in the man from Anytown USA being so devastated, he focuses on his newfound adventure of returning to gay bars ....
Yes it is.:cool:
But these grunting exchanges go on for about four minutes, I wish Soulster, you had presented all of it, instead of a limited snippet, it would offer more clarity by listening to it in its entirety.
Listening to the part you've provided, some might hear Billy's carrying-ons as sounding a little , 'womanly' .... ??
By this time, The Miracles were a group of all male singers. I doubt they would go to the bother of bringing in a female [an Andante? Syreeta?] to moan a little and then bury it amongst multiple male groans.
By comparison, and as a likely inspiration to the concept at play here, coming off the charts as a million selling #1 soul song, just as The Miracles went into the studio that summer of 1975:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xItIxyykXk
Now that's how you present a female's groaning part on a record if that's your intention.
Hah! Yeah! Only to be followed six months later by Donna Summer's "Love To Love You Baby"!
You know, in light of that Wiki explanation, maybe you are onto something, Boogiedown. Whatever, that's what I love about the music of the 70s: it was a crazy time where anything went, or people got away with anything, with no apologies!
but wait Soulster , I need more push back !....I haven't finished presenting my case yet! :p lol!
Now you are thinking more like me....why is this so outrageous an idea .... it's the seventies where anything goes , if it feels good do it ...."freedom of expression is really the thing" is what the Miracles declare in AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT.
Also, how else does LOVE MACHINE fit in with this concept album? The tie in would be if this song is about the gay stuff specifically brought up in ANSILA ....
If someone were to tell me about the Major Harris record, where a women moans sexually all over it, and how this was thought appropriate for family radio ... and I didn't already know it to be so ...I would have said "You're kidding me..."
But there it is, and in plain sight. Why is this so impossible then on LOVE MACHINE from that same time ....masked as was thought to be a clever , safer approach , but there if one pays attention... Pushing the envelope ...
This appearance on Soul Train cracks me up. Harris just stands there while there's this anonymous woman groaning overhead . Seems most uncomfortable [inappropriate].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fo5ObyKGOM
It doesn't help that Major's persona seems like some stuffy middle aged businessman, a horny boss with his young secretary getting it on in the back room of the office perhaps? lol!
And Soulster , you've lead me right into Donna Summer which I've wanted to mention. What is already airing in Europe that same summer LOVE MACHINE was created ? LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY. It's increasingly the "in" thing right now.
How did all this explicitness on pop records ever get started ? Blame it on the French and
Je t'aime... moi non plus from the late sixties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0
There's quite a read about it in wiki. Some highlights:
When groaning records were becoming the rage ...JUNGLE FEVER... PILLOW TALK ... this version was again released in the UK in late 1974 charting for nine weeks.Quote:
France Dimanche said the "groans, sighs, and Bardot's little cries of pleasure [give] the impression you're listening to two people making love".[3] The first time Gainsbourg played it in public was in a Paris restaurant immediately after they recorded it. Birkin said that "as it began to play all you could hear were the knives and forks being put down. 'I think we have a hit record', he said."
The song culminates in orgasm sounds by Birkin: mostly because of this, it was banned from radio in Spain, Sweden, Brazil, the UK,[11] Italy,[12] and Portugal,[citation needed] banned before 11 pm in France, not played by many radio stations in the United States because it was deemed too risqué,[2] and denounced by the Vatican and the L'Osservatore Romano;[11][12] one report even claimed the Vatican excommunicated the record executive who released it in Italy.[8] Birkin says Gainsbourg called the Pope "our greatest PR man".[6]
In the UK, it was released on the Fontana label, but, after reaching number two, it was withdrawn from sale. Gainsbourg arranged a deal with Major Minor Records and on re-release it reached number one, the first banned number one single in the UK[11] [have to say ,I don't understand how that works] ,
Gainsbourg asked her to sing an octave higher than Bardot, "so you'll sound like a little boy".
Gainsbourg also asked Marianne Faithfull to record the song with him; she said: "Hah! He asked everybody"
US radio broadcasters decided "no" to JE T'AIME. It didn't even reach the Top half of the Hot 100.
Exactly. ...Quote:
Soulster:
Whatever, that's what I love about the music of the 70s: it was a crazy time where anything went, or people got away with anything, with no apologies!
"Je T'aime" was also banned from UK radio but it still topped the charts.
This suggests that the record-buying public had the last word.
I'm not quite sure what that says about record buyers on either side of the Atlantic, however...... :)
[I just liked the melody of "Je T'aime", so I bought the instrumental version by Sounds Nice and avoided having to listen to all that faux sex.]
Nope! No more pushback!:p
Well, the album version had more passionate moaning. The 45 RPM edit, which is what's presented here on the Soul Train clip cut out the worst of it near the end. But, that song did indeed get played on top 40 radio during the afternoons when kids could hear it. That's how I heard it, though I was already 12 years old in the late spring of '75.Quote:
If someone were to tell me about the Major Harris record, where a women moans sexually all over it, and how this was thought appropriate for family radio ... and I didn't already know it to be so ...I would have said "You're kidding me..."
The album cover makes him look like a pimp.Quote:
It doesn't help that Major's persona seems like some stuffy middle aged businessman, a horny boss with his young secretary getting it on in the back room of the office perhaps? lol!
Hey! It's a nice change from all the damn rapping where every other word is the n-word, that's fer sure!Quote:
And Soulster , you've lead me right into Donna Summer which I've wanted to mention. What is already airing in Europe that same summer LOVE MACHINE was created ? LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY. It's increasingly the "in" thing right now.
People wanting to push the envelope and stick it to "the establishment".Quote:
How did all this explicitness on pop records ever get started ? Blame it on the French and
Je t'aime... moi non plus from the late sixties.
I never heard of the Je TiAme" here in the U.S., and top 40 radio didn't play "Jungle Fever", but man, radio went crazy playing "Pillow Talk" by Sylvia! It went straight to the top 10. It was mighty embarrassing for it to come on the radio when my mom was in the room when I was 10 years old. I knew exactly what was going on. It made Marvin Gaye's #1 "Let's Get It On" seem like a Sunday school hymn, and that one was played at jr. high dances.Quote:
There's quite a read about it in wiki. Some highlights:
When groaning records were becoming the rage ...JUNGLE FEVER... PILLOW TALK ... this version was again released in the UK in late 1974 charting for nine weeks.
US radio broadcasters decided "no" to JE T'AIME. It didn't even reach the Top half of the Hot 100.
So #1s on the UK charts were based on sales only with no connection to airplay?
Just because the song was banned ....it was selling regardless , and very well , #2 ... so why would Fantana pull it??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQ-dZ7c8w0
It's got a wah wah -ish sound to it ...
So Soulster you've gone from 100% stating 'that's a guy and a gal carrying on' , to now ....??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMRiHCeFF0c
......and to move this along a little,
can anyone spot the line in the lyrics that stands out as a little odd??
[also note word correction at another point]
Lyrics
I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you [[yeah baby)
I'm just a love machine
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I think it's high time you knew
Whenever I think of you
My mind blows a fuse [[baby)
When I look in you eyes
My meter starts to rise, I become so confused
My voltage regulator cools
When I'm sitting next to you
Electricity starts to flow
And my indicator starts to glow, wooh
I-I I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you baby
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I-I I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I'm gentle as a lamb,
I'm not that hard to program,
There's no way that you can lose
My chassis fits like a glove
I've got a button for love
That she's [incorrect the word sung is 'you'] got to use
If you look into my files
I am sure you can find out how
To turn me on just set my dial
And let me love you for a little while, wooh
I-I I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody [[but you baby)
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you[[baby)
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I'm just a love machine
I won't operate for nobody but you
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Warren Moore / William Griffin
Gentle as a lamb? :p