The Wiz - thoughts? Love it? like it? hate it?

what are your thoughts on this project?

It's clearly one Diana felt was drastically important for her. And while it bombed at the time, in recent years the public has taken more of an interest in it

frankly i find it nearly unwatchable. And i can sit through Xanadu!!

1. Diana plays the role as if she were appearing in Shakespeare In The Park. she's almost frighteningly serious. and if she isn't stone faced serious, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. basically she's totally neurotic

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on

3. i do like the "urban playground" concept with the NYC set. that's really cool.

4. nearly every dance sequence is shot in a maddeningly broad wide shot. it's as if the camera team was positioned across from NYC in Hoboken! often the dancing is filmed from behind. this simply leaves the viewer too removed from the activity. the point of the choreography is to pull the eye into the action of the song. here we're so far away, we might as well just be listening to a radio broadcast of it

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

what are your thoughts on this project?

It's clearly one Diana felt was drastically important for her. And while it bombed at the time, in recent years the public has taken more of an interest in it

frankly i find it nearly unwatchable. And i can sit through Xanadu!!

1. Diana plays the role as if she were appearing in Shakespeare In The Park. she's almost frighteningly serious. and if she isn't stone faced serious, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. basically she's totally neurotic

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on

3. i do like the "urban playground" concept with the NYC set. that's really cool.

4. nearly every dance sequence is shot in a maddeningly broad wide shot. it's as if the camera team was positioned across from NYC in Hoboken! often the dancing is filmed from behind. this simply leaves the viewer too removed from the activity. the point of the choreography is to pull the eye into the action of the song. here we're so far away, we might as well just be listening to a radio broadcast of it

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Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

Love it. The music is worth the price of admission alone. The visual musical numbers were fantastic and IMO are among the best ever. I have, in recent time, come to recognize the flaws [[such as the cinematography) in the overall production, but it has not dampened my love of the movie. Diana killed those vocals. Sucks so bad that we never got another Diana/Quincy Jones project.

I guess Olivia Newton John got his mojo going lol

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on

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This is pretty much all you needed to say.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

Sucks so bad that we never got another Diana/Quincy Jones project.

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Well you got 'We are the World'.

I love the music but I do think it really drags at various points throughout. The last 10 minutes of the movie always has me sobbing like a baby starting with "Believe In Yourself" till when Dorothy goes running back into her home in the peaceful snow.

Watched it for the very first time a few months ago I loved the costumes set pieces colours and lighting was fantastic I can see why it's a cult classic it's ambitious,bold,different and I found it touching I've let a friend borrow my dvd of it can't wait to get it back and enjoy it for a second time...

Diana’s vocals were exquisite.

Hair and makeup hideous.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

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lolol it's not exactly an enjoyable experience, but yes! i can sit through Xanadu but can't sit through The Wiz lol

here's an example of the complete WTF

you have a LONG opening scene with Aunt Em singing The Feeling We Once Had. this introductory scene should be helping to establish our primary characters or at least establish the conflict/situation that this movie is going to tackle. Diana appears for about 3 seconds in it. you have 10,000 relatives all in the scene and they're the ones Em is singing to. but they have no names, no stories and no involvement in the plot. WTF are they doing there? who cares about them?!?!

if Em had sung the song AFTER dinner to Dorothy as a way to establish the bond and relationship between them, then you'd have something.

But basically Em just nags Dorothy to give up teaching kindergarten and take some high school job. never mind the fact that 1) those are totally different forms of education and the skills required are different and 2) maybe dorothy really enjoys and finds satisfaction from teaching young kids

so the whole introduction SHOULD establish why Dorothy is so desperate to return home from oz. but basically all we got was a nag of an aunt that ignores dorothy at the family reunion and then pesters her to change her job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

I think the film had the wrong director. There is no sense of excitement or wonder once Dorothy gets to Oz. The dance sequences are shot in a maddening static way which makes them boring. Everybody Rejoice has the same overhead tracking shot multiple times! Why isn't the camera moving? The fashion sequence at the World Trade Center was just looooong, and added nothing to the plot. The biggest offense, to me, is The Wiz. That big head had laser eyes. So what? The 1939 movie made him seem much more threatening, and fierce. I've often wondered if the film would be better if a more imaginative editor was brought in to help the pace a bit.

I was a movie reviewer for my college newspaper and couldn't wait to see this film. I was horrified at how bad it was. Ross was entirely too old for this part and making Dorothy 24 instead of 12 only made the character seem unbalanced that she didn't want to live on her own and was devoted to a dog instead of a man.

I won an award from best headline of the week: "Ding, Dong, The Wiz is Dead."

I understand Ross' fire to play the part but surely SOMEBODY should have told her she was too old. The only time I sat through the entire film was the night I reviewed it. The music was in a key too high and I remember the veins sticking out of her neck during Home.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

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oh my ! lol!!

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Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

I was a movie reviewer for my college newspaper and couldn't wait to see this film. I was horrified at how bad it was. Ross was entirely too old for this part and making Dorothy 24 instead of 12 only made the character seem unbalanced that she didn't want to live on her own and was devoted to a dog instead of a man.

I won an award from best headline of the week: "Ding, Dong, The Wiz is Dead."

I understand Ross' fire to play the part but surely SOMEBODY should have told her she was too old. The only time I sat through the entire film was the night I reviewed it. The music was in a key too high and I remember the veins sticking out of her neck during Home.

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exactly!! Diana's portrayal wasn't of a lost child [[even just a figurative child) searching for home but of a manic depressive with screaming fits that out screamed her straightjacket and padded cell scenes in Lady.

Dorothy didn't need a wiz but a shrink lol

The Wiz was piss-poor.

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

oh my ! lol!!

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in the 1939 movie the role of Aunt Em isn't, technically, large. Clara Blandick didn't have pages and pages of lines. but what she had was highly effective. how she stood up to Almira Gulch and her panic over losing Dorothy in the storm. Plus how she was distracted from dorothy as they were working on the farm. You got the sense that this was a REAL family. busy, harried, loving, stern, caring. You can easily understand this teenager feeling like the world is against her, even when they do truly care. and then you understand her goal of returning home from oz

here's a idiotic conundrum from the film lolol

Evillene is a despot. she runs a sweatshop for her slaves. but in what "post Triangle Shirtwaist fire world" does she live in!?!?! why the fuck would she bother installing a sprinkler or fire suppression system?!?! lololol water will kill her. and besides, why does she care about worker safety? and she lives in a toilet?

seems for someone that is eradicated by water that she's living rather foolishly lol

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

in the 1939 movie the role of Aunt Em isn't, technically, large. Clara Blandick didn't have pages and pages of lines. but what she had was highly effective. how she stood up to Almira Gulch and her panic over losing Dorothy in the storm. Plus how she was distracted from dorothy as they were working on the farm. You got the sense that this was a REAL family. busy, harried, loving, stern, caring. You can easily understand this teenager feeling like the world is against her, even when they do truly care. and then you understand her goal of returning home from oz

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yes the whole point of the movie clearly comes through. Seeing Auntie Em worried during her absence in the crystal ball brings it home too.

I have to say though, having watched it a million times , I now try to find ways of critiquing.
I'm not so sure that out in the farmlands of Kansas back then , a little dog passing your place is going to do that much damage.

But for heaven's sake if your bratty dog is chasing her cat or whatever every time you go by Clara's place , put it on a leash !! Shame on you Dorothy ! Your neighbor warned you ! You brought your troubles on yourself!! lol!!

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

yes the whole point of the movie clearly comes through. Seeing Auntie Em worried during her absence in the crystal ball brings it home too.

I have to say though, having watched it a million times , I now try to find ways of critiquing.
I'm not so sure that out in the farmlands of Kansas back then , a little dog passing your place is going to do that much damage.

But for heaven's sake if your bratty dog is chasing her cat or whatever every time you go by Clara's place , put it on a leash !! Shame on you Dorothy ! Your neighbor warned you ! You brought your troubles on yourself!! lol!!

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lol it was more than that! the dog all but made Almira lame due to the bite on her leg! lol just think if Miss Gulch was no longer able to pedal her bicycle lol

I saw it for the first time a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it and I can understand it´s cult status. However, I agree the film could have been more exiting with a different director. Also, Diana´s hairstyle made her look much older than she was supposed to be. But overall I liked it, in a camp way.

Oh and I LOVE Xanadu!

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

here's an example of the complete WTF

you have a LONG opening scene with Aunt Em singing The Feeling We Once Had. this introductory scene should be helping to establish our primary characters or at least establish the conflict/situation that this movie is going to tackle. Diana appears for about 3 seconds in it. you have 10,000 relatives all in the scene and they're the ones Em is singing to. but they have no names, no stories and no involvement in the plot. WTF are they doing there? who cares about them?!?!

if Em had sung the song AFTER dinner to Dorothy as a way to establish the bond and relationship between them, then you'd have something.

But basically Em just nags Dorothy to give up teaching kindergarten and take some high school job. never mind the fact that 1) those are totally different forms of education and the skills required are different and 2) maybe dorothy really enjoys and finds satisfaction from teaching young kids

so the whole introduction SHOULD establish why Dorothy is so desperate to return home from oz. but basically all we got was a nag of an aunt that ignores dorothy at the family reunion and then pesters her to change her job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

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This forum- when it doesn't devolve into nonsensical spats- really is a great example of how art is interpreted differently by different people, whether the art be music or film. Love reading how other's ideas differ from mine.

My interpretation of these parts of the story you point out are as follows:

The opening scenes set up Dorothy's problem. The point of Aunt Em's song in the movie is to show her as the wise one. She's the revered Big Mama of the African American family. The glue that keeps them all bonded. Listen to her wisdom and advice and you can't go wrong. She's even sitting at the head of the table. She's Queen Em and she loves her family. The various family members don't have to have a story beyond the props used to illustrate Em's role in the family. And she doesn't ignore Dorothy at the dinner. [["You'll be out in the world, such a pretty girl, but you'll be on your own...")

From there it should come as no surprise when, while cleaning up, she "nags" Dorothy about the future of her life. As the great wise one [[who is actually represented by "The Wiz" in Dorothy's storm related "dream" of Oz) she knows more about life than Dorothy and feels it's her duty to steer her when she sees she's off track. It's also obvious that Dorothy rarely thought for herself while growing up and Aunt Em made a lot of decisions for her. Which of course is natural and the right thing to do for adults charged with the care of children, but there comes a point when more and more room is given for young people to make decisions in order to become responsible adults. Dorothy didn't have that. Aunt Em probably decided "Dorothy you'll go to college and you'll become a teacher". Meanwhile, what Dorothy really wanted to do was sing and dance.:cool: The problem with that dream is that she also has anxiety issues, probably related to the trauma of losing her parents. She has social anxiety, which makes such a dream of all that singing and dancing difficult. Much more easier to give in to Em's wishes and become a teacher.

And then there's the fact that Dorothy was probably extremely sheltered growing up. She was the quiet girl and the other kids picked on her. Aunt Em used to have to go up to the school and put her foot in folks' asses, hemming kids up against the wall and warning them "If you ever touch a hair on my sweet Dorothy's head again, if you even ever speak her name again, I will come up here and put my foot so far in yo ass that you'll need a dentist because I kicked your teeth out. And if your mama got a problem with it, tell her to come and see me at 433 Prospect Place and see if she leave with her teeth.":p

Dorothy wasn't forced to stand up for herself. So she was always cowering and running from anything she feared. The fact that she went to school and became a teacher is amazing at all, considering that she basically developed a fear of the world outside her small bubble. At some point Em realizes she created a problem and tries to fix it. Tough love time. That conversation in the kitchen was basically Em letting Dorothy know "You can't stay here no more" and the decision had been made. She has to do that if Dorothy has any chance at surviving, because there's no telling how long Em and Henry have left on earth. Both of them have high blood pressure and Em got the Diabetes. Dorothy will have to learn to fend for herself eventually, and it's probably easier for her to do it while Em and Henry are still around than if she was totally ass out alone.

Toto escaping ended up being a blessing for Dorothy. She goes out into the storm. Maybe it's hypothermia, who knows? But she blacks out and in this "alternate reality" she faces all those things that frighten her: a big bad world, being alone, even an overbearing "being" who bosses her around. Originally she's anxious to get back home because she's loved and safe there. In the end she's anxious to get back home because she has a new lease on life. She's prepared for whatever the world throws at her, probably for the first time in her life.

A few months later she crosses paths with a smooth talking dude who just started his own record company and has been looking for a sweet singing lady to help him make it to the very top. And the rest, as they say, is history.:D

That's my take, anyway.:cool:

yeah i have to say things have been really quite pleasant on here for the past many months. fans sharing a variety of viewpoints and [[mostly) without the fighting

but now ran - i'm gonna fight you!! lolol

I don't deny that Aunt Em being established as a "big mama" role within a family is an interesting character point and especially for reinterpreting the story in an african american home and POV

the problem is the director spends 99% of Em's screen time with her meandering around the dinner table singing to people that have 0 impact on the plot and will never be seen again. she never directs the song to Dorothy, the person we're supposed to care about. and Diana never ones has a single interaction with any of these people other than clearing away some dirty dishes. why are they there? what are they supposed to be doing? why should we care?

the movie never establishes any real reason for Dorothy to want to return home, other than she just wants to. her entire extended family ignores her at a family function, Aunt Em baggers her about moving into a job she doesn't want.

like i said! lol stay in Oz Dot! lol

also another fault i've found with the movie is that the 3 companions don't really come to realize their own journeys being completed. Dorothy informs them of how they solved their own problems. they don't really follow the [[annoying) theme of the movie which is self discovery and actualization. She informs them that they really did succeed. But we never really see Dorothy's growth and development. she's still the same nervous nitwit we saw in the beginning. there's no real character evolution and so the movie misses out on what should be the strongest emotional connection between viewer and character

It's definitely not a favourite of mine. I know I've never seen the whole movie since it's release.

But it is regarding as Diana's most successful movie and it is the movie she is most recognized for - which is weird.

Although the music score is wonderful to experience, I felt the cinematography suffered. The whole movie, visually, was dark and the coloring filters that were used made it appear cheaply made. I was expecting the jubilant, festive scenes would have popped out of the screen with vibrant colors rather than everything using basement like lighting. Even the "Ease Down the Road" appeared to have been shot on an overcast day.

I recall reading somewhere that either Diana or Quincy stated that Diana was indeed using a vocal range that she seldom had ever used.

As others have stated, I wish more attention would have been given to the camera work of "Brand New Day" which is my favorite number.

I loved the one camera take of "Home" by Diana although those dangling graphics around her looked like cheap cutouts.

The soundtrack still remains one of my favorites.

i thought Nipsey Russell as the tinman was wonderful - brilliant costume design and portrayal.. everyone was good but he stood out for me.. as a Ross fan since 1986 i always avoided watching it due to its bad rep but watching it a couple months ago i was impressed..its ambitious and has its own style..you cant really compare it to the original Garland film apart from the premise..it would be hard to compare any version favourably to the original as that is was one of the most special and beloved films in history..its not trying to be like the original but it still takes you on a journey meeting memorable characters in unique settings..its but better than i anticipated and now i wish i had watched it years ago..im glad opinion has changed over the decades towards it

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Originally Posted by Boogiedown

The Wiz was piss-poor.

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I have to agree with you.
I have never managed to sit through the whole film despite repeated attempts. It is truly awful in every respect with the notable exception of the music which was wonderful. Her vocals were exceptional on this project and it still pisses me off that she was unwilling to wait for Quincy to produce her rca debut. He understood her vocal strengths in the same way Ashford and Simpson, Michael Masser and Richard Perry did.
I often play the soundtrack, but i do not have sufficient time left on this earth to waste on attempting to sit through that celluloid disaster again.

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Originally Posted by jobeterob

It's definitely not a favourite of mine. I know I've never seen the whole movie since it's release.

But it is regarding as Diana's most successful movie and it is the movie she is most recognized for - which is weird.

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Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

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Originally Posted by sansradio

Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

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I cant believe he passed away over a decade ago..time goes so quickly.. kudos for Diana for battling on his behalf to be included in the film..he personally considered the film one of his career highlights

Since last year, The Wiz has aired regularly on one of the Showtime cable channels. It seemed like whenever I was channel surfing, I would come across the Wiz.

I watched this in 1986, at five years old, and it scared the living hell out of me.
I do love MJ and Diana so I will propably give it another try.

I could never again watch the Wiz. It is visually painful.

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

As a kid, I liked it, but as an adult, IDK, it kinda left me cold. Can't explain why. Maybe it was because of the still-negative connotations that Diana was blamed for why Hollywood wouldn't seek a major black film role until The Bodyguard in 1992, which seems to be more of a game changer than even Diana's role in Lady Sings the Blues in 1972 when Hollywood was JUST starting to warm up to black leads more [[blaxploitation era). Or maybe because it dragged too long for me to fully enjoy it. Or maybe it was the fact that the musical was much better and that a younger actress was more suited for the role than a 33, 34-year-old woman. Or maybe all of the above.

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Originally Posted by sansradio

Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

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Which is funny you say that because that's probably the BIGGEST reason many claim to like The Wiz lol

Without it, it would've likely been called out for the flop that it is. The only reason The Wiz became such an "important" film for some is because it was the film that brought MJ and Quincy Jones together and that's probably considered the most important part of the entire film.

In 1978, though, Michael Jackson was still considered a former child star and hadn't yet graduated to becoming a full-fledged pop star. The fact that this happened roughly a year later though may have been because of MJ and QJ's quick thinking that they should hook up.

But looking at books on Diana, it was regarded as the film that killed Diana's box office career. I would actually agree with this sentiment, Diana should've fought harder for the Josephine Baker role rather than choose a film that was, IMHO, out of her league.

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Originally Posted by Atasteofhoney

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

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there wasnt a romance. Michael wasnt into women and we should leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by nomis

there wasnt a romance. Michael wasnt into women and we should leave it at that.

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Exactly. Less we talk, the better. We know how some folks are...

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Originally Posted by Atasteofhoney

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

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"Supposed" being the operative word here. There was never any romantic interaction between Ms Ross and Michael Jackson.

Unbelievable that there are people that believe such claptrap