Yeah, isn't that always the way!
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Kenny, these two videos are not Spector-related, but they'll give you an example of Estelle Bennett's voice.
"The Year 2000":
https://youtu.be/gpwMMZ-g2MU
"The Naked Boy":
https://youtu.be/bD9pUUv9xWc
Estelle's Laurie Records 45:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323807113230
The Crystals and The Ronettes shared at least a couple of songs - "I Wonder" and "Woman In Love [[I'm A)" are examples that spring to mind. There's not much to choose between the latter but The Crystals made 2 versions of "I Wonder" and I don't believe I have the single version on CD which is the version I prefer. Is this version available on CD?
Hey Mystery! I love both The Crystals' and The Ronettes' version of "Woman In Love" equally.
Not counting a newer, remake version of "I Wonder" by the post-Philles Crystals, there is, to my knowledge, only one Phil Spector-produced version of "I Wonder" by The Crystals, and that is the record that you folks across The Pond got as a single. Phil didn't release it here in the U.S. at the time, as I believe he wasn't satisfied with it. For whatever reason, Phil couldn't book studio time at Gold Star, so The Crystals' "I Wonder" was recorded at a studio in NYC instead. As expected, the acoustics in the NY studio were far different from the perfect acoustics at Gold Star. Phil did all he could to compensate for the difference, but the end result was a strange, murky blend rather than the Wall Of Sound that we were accustomed to. I was surprised that he unleashed it on you guys in the U.K., although I see it went to #36 on the U.K. charts so, apparently, some folks liked it. I've gotta admit that it's really grown on me since the first time I heard it. In the YouTube video [[below), if you scroll down to read the viewers' comments, fans from around the world really love The Crystals' "I Wonder".
The only version of The Crystals' "I Wonder" that I know of is this:
https://youtu.be/cGksVc1QWl8
It's available on the following CDs here in the U.S.:
The Crystals- "Best Of The Crystals":
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F264314937486
The Crystals - "Da Doo Ron Ron: The Very Best Of The Crystals"
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F163828331898
The Crystals- "He's A Rebel"
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F201340082955
Hope this helps.
Yeh, you're absolutely right and that's the only Crystals version I have too - I've no idea why I thought there was more than one version - perhaps I was thinking of "All Grown Up" by them but I have both versions of that too. The Ronettes and Crystals also recorded "Girls Can Tell" but I think I prefer The Ronettes version there.
That's okay. It's easy to confuse one version with another. When it comes to "Girls Can Tell", I love The Ronettes' version, but LaLa's version seems the more powerful to me! Something about her whoa-oh-oh at the end just blows me away!
Who knows, Kenny? If memory serves, Estelle's record on the Laurie label was released in 1968. I think they were abandoning the girl-group sound for the hippie, folk-music route, just as Dion DiMucci did with "Abraham, Martin, And John", also on Laurie. Personally, that new music did nothing for me. I was disappointed with Estelle's voice, as well. I guess I was expecting more. But it was still interesting to hear, as I wasn't aware that she had ever recorded a solo record. Only yesterday, I was reading that Estelle lived a hard life after The Ronettes broke up back in the late '60s. She suffered from Anorexia and Schizophrenia, and was even homeless for a while. In the article, it was reported that, while wandering the streets of NYC, Estelle was overheard telling people that The Ronettes were set to perform at a jazz club which, of course, wasn't true. Very sad how quickly and easily our favorite performer's lives can go down the tubes in so short a time.
Wasn't parts of "I Wonder" used in another song, but I'm scratching my head trying to remember what it was?
Not that I know of with "Girls Can Tell", 144man, but I think you might be thinking of The Ronettes' "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" in which the line is, "Gee, the moon is shining bright". The very same line AND melody were used in The Dixie Cups "Gee The Moon Is Shining Bright" 45 on Red Bird. Both songs were written by Jeff & Ellie & Phil [[Barry & Greenwich & Spector). It was almost as if they weren't sure which direction to go with the song or which title to use, so they did one of each -- one version for The Ronettes, and the other version for their own group, The Dixie Cups. Might that be what you were thinking of?
THE RONETTES:
"Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love"
https://youtu.be/SPk9mZLnD78
THE DIXIE CUPS:
"Gee The Moon Is Shining Bright"
https://youtu.be/Ms-ecwmgjuI
Nice job! Beautifully done Gary! I'm enjoying your breakdown of the details for each album.
So that's the sum total of the Lp releases from the recordings at Gold Star? Twelve albums ? Did you buy each one ? ....as they were released?
And since this is a Motown website , this is the first LP cut that stands out right away:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHK...ature=youtu.be
It's wonderful ! Such crescendos! :cool: [[ I wonder who the backups are?)
Thanks again!
Hey, Boogie! You're very welcome. And thank you for the compliments! Yes, Sir! 12 LPs was the grand total of Philles LPs -- or, actually, only 11 given the fact that the 12th was never officially released here in the U.S. Strange as it may seem, the answer to your question is no, I did not buy each of the Philles LPs as they were released. At age 11-12, I didn't have the financial means to buy them all. I got The Crystals "He's A Rebel" LP for my 12th birthday in March '63, and I bought The Ronettes "Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes" in very late '64 or early '65 -- soon after its release. I had several of the Philles 45s, but not all of them. By late '64, I was becoming heavily addicted to Motown which hit hard and fast. [[That was when I started pocketing lunch money my parents had given me to finance my Motown purchases.) It wasn't until the U.K. Phil Spector International label started reissuing the Philles girl-group albums in 1976 which got me back into Philles big-time. About 10 years ago is when I decided it was high time for this Philles collector to put my money where my heart is and start collecting NM copies of the original Philles LP lineup. And that's exactly what I did! I also bought NM copies of each and every Philles 45 as well, all of which I cherish, along with my various Philles memorabilia.
I'm glad you like Phil's production of Martha's "A Love Like Yours" on Tina. It's really pretty!
Thanks again for your warm comments and compliments, John. It's appreciation and gratitude like yours that keeps me going.
John, I almost forgot. I don't know who the back-up singers on Tina's "A Love Like Yours" are. By then, Sonny & Cher were long-gone and making hit records of their own. I don't know if Nino Tempo was still in the picture or not. By now, it was 1967, and Tina's "A Love like Yours" was Philles 136 -- the very last 45 that Phil issued on Philles, after which Phil closed Philles' doors forever. So much had changed by then. I'm guessing the back-up singers were at least Darlene Love & The Blossoms, possibly more. With only 3 voices, Phil could have easily over-dubbed them as many times as he wanted to achieve a full-choir effect.
Oh, Gary I didn't catch that A LOVE LIKE YOURS was released as a single. I thought it was an album cut only.
So it turns out that the very last Philles single Phil released was a Motown song. How about that!! Boy musically, things sure wind up interweaving don't they!
I wonder how Phil came to choose certain songs to cover. I suppose it's not much more complicated than they were songs he liked. SAVE THE LAST DANCE FOR ME , also from the RIVER DEEP album , was a great choice for Tina :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0b4jq5r76w&feature=youtu.be
I really love that recording ! Fantastic arrangement! [[Is that 20 second ending almost DISCO SYMPHONY -ish ?)
Is there much to learn about Phil from Tina's books?
Yes, indeed, John! Tina's "A Love Like Yours" was the final chapter in the Philles Records saga.
TINA TURNER: [[45 Photo - Philles 136)
"A Love Like Yours [[Don't Come Knocking Every Day"
https://images.app.goo.gl/25MJEpEgEnj5UGBV6
Phil loved Motown -- especially the Four Tops. I was always surprised that he didn't single out Martha & The Vandellas as a favorite, as their high-energy records were the closest to The Crystals and, in my mind, would have adapted easily to Phil's Wall Of Sound. I can easily imagine Martha on records like "Da Doo Ron Ron", "Then He Kissed Me", and "Little Boy".
I, too, love Phil's production on "Save The Last Dance For Me". He always had a great knack for picking the right songs for his artists, and then making them all his own.
HaHa! You're right, Boog! The ending of "Save The Last Dance" really DOES sound like the ending of "A Disco Symphony"! Same chords even, with the same drawn-out intensity! I love it!
Tina's books -- that's a good question. I've wondered the same thing. I've never read any of her books. But, then, I wouldn't know which one to get. I'm not a big Tina fan, although I love her Philles recordings that Phil produced on her. The book I get would have to be the one that contains the most Philles coverage.
Tina wrote about Phil in both of her memoirs, I, TINA and MY LOVE STORY. She mentioned that she liked how Phil respected her voice as he would make her stick to the melody as opposed to overdoing it as Ike would have her do to sell his compositions. She also mentioned that the rehearsing and recording of RIVER DEEP was so different from her Ike experiences that she would blank on what happened when she left for the day. Ike would ask her how the song was coming and she couldn't even sing it to him. But one day on the way to a show, Ike asked again and she sang it for him in the car. Even without accompaniment, Ike was impressed.
Re the RIVER DEEP session, Tina says there were tons of people in the studio. At one point, she wrote the arrangements were wrong and Phil ripped up all of the sheet music. When it came time to do her vocal, she had to do it multiple times and still couldn't get it quite as Phil wanted. She said she still doesn't believe she ever got the first line, "When I was a little girl..." right. She was working so hard that she was drenched in sweat and for the final take, she ripped off her blouse and recorded the song in her bra.
That's about it. She also mentioned how the record never found a home in the US as some thought it too black and others thought it too white. But she felt really proud of it and how its success in the UK exposed her to a totally new audience. Unfortunately, she never mentioned none of the other Philles material. But I gather A LOVE LIKE YOURS must have been a favorite as it remained in Ike and Tina's act for a long time.
Martha & The Vandellas did of course cover "Then He Kissed Me" [[and "Wait Till My Bobby Gets Home" too).
Thanks, Reese. I knew about Gold Star being jam-packed with on-lookers making Tina nervous. [[I wouldn't have liked that either. I'm surprised that Phil would have allowed it.) And I knew that Tina had stripped down to her bra for the final recording sessions. But I didn't know that Phil had restrained Tina from over-souling it. [[Motown restrained it artists from over-souling as well.) Phil also restrained Hal Blaine from going overboard with his drum fills throughout the recording until the end of the song. Once the ending with the fade-out began, Phil would give Hal the "nod" and Hal would cut loose with his magnificent drum fills which were his signature on all of the great Philles hits. I also wasn't aware that Phil had freaked out and torn up the written music arrangements at the session. I just looked up the music arranger's credit for "River Deep" and it was Jack Nitzsche -- Phil's right-hand man at nearly all of the Philles recording sessions. Phil and Jack got along great because Jack always knew exactly what Phil wanted. I'm shocked that Phil would rip up Jack's hard work. I guess stranger things have happened! Good to hear that Tina kept "A Love Like Yours" in her live repertoire for a long time. It's all very interesting, Reese. Thanks for filling us in!
Yeah, I know, mystery, but I barely count those. They were thrown together hastily for "Martha & The Vandellas' "Heat Wave" album. To my ears, those renditions don't sound like Phil Spector NOR Motown. It would be cool to hear Martha's Lead Vocal on "Things Are Changing". I'll bet it would be impressive!
To my knowledge, those excellent Phil Spector International LP reissues and compilations have never been released on CD, but since most of those tracks are Philles, the majority of them are available on CD in one form or other. Are there any particular tracks you're hoping to find on CD?
Reese, I forgot to point out that one of the Wrecking Crew guys who was present at the "River Deep" sessions reported that the music was so loud and powerful, Gold Star's walls were literally shaking! Not sure if that was during the recording process or during playback. Phil notoriously cranked it during playback, so that's probably what it was. But, still, music capable of shaking Gold Star's walls is pretty impressive! Did Tina mention that in her book?
Well, 144man, let's compare them and see what we come up with in similarities between the two songs:
THE RONETTES:
"I Wonder"
https://youtu.be/3no5JJ7ILRcGirls Can Tell"
"Girls Can Tell"
https://youtu.be/Yq0giht1NXY
THE CRYSTALS:
"I Wonder"
https://youtu.be/cGksVc1QWl8
"Girls Can Tell"
https://youtu.be/pZl3GjkFzfY
Mysterysinger, you recently declared that your favorite version of "Girls Can Tell" is The Ronettes' version; I allowed that, although I love them both, my vote goes to The Crystals.
Let's compare them like we've never compared them before -- simultaneously!
https://youtu.be/a58GcTgjNXY
Okay. Here we go.
The lines "I wonder who he'll be, I wonder if he'll be good for me" in the Crystals' I Wonder are sung to the same tune as "When you say I look so fine, When you put your hand in mine" in their version of Girls Can Tell.
The bridge in the Crystals' I Wonder "Everyday I Love Him more,Than I did the day before. I will try to make him see, Just how much he means to me" is almost identical to the bridge in their version of Girls Can Tell.
The Ronettes use a different bridge in their version of I Wonder, "I hope we'll never ever make each other cry, I pray we'll never ever say goodbye", but they use the same bridge as the Crystals do in Girls Can Tell.
^^^Also, in the Butterflys' Red Bird version of "I Wonder", they use the same bridge as in the Crystals' version.
Two of my Philles favorites, 144man! I hadn't realized how similar they are!
I'm glad you brought up the Red Bird version, 144man! This record is one of the few instances where another producer actually managed to EQUAL Phil Spector's versions. And the Butterflys' lead singer even sounds like Lala to me! This rendition is among my all-time faves!
THE BUTTERFLYS [[Red Bird)
"I Wonder"
https://youtu.be/OIGjFCP7FUA
Oh, never mind, 144man. I see now you replied at the end. You can ignore this!